guardianoftheblind Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I'm interested to see what you believe counts as having sex. Does oral sex count as having sex? Does anal sex count as having sex? Does intimate touching count as having sex? Does cyber sex count as having sex? Does phone sex count as having sex? Does masturbation count as having sex? Does it matter what genders are involved? Link to post Share on other sites
Jayann Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Does oral sex count as having sex?Does anal sex count as having sex? Does intimate touching count as having sex? Does cyber sex count as having sex? Does phone sex count as having sex? Does masturbation count as having sex? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Granted, the ones revolving around masturbation, such as cyber and phone sex, and plain ol' masturbation, are harder to categorize since "having sex" usually implies the presence of more than one person. However, it is my belief that acts which include the physical stimulation of the genitals and/or contact of the genitals with any other body part for the sake of said stimulation to be sex acts. So, masturbation is someone having sex with themselves. Also, by "intimate" I presume you mean someone touching another person's genitals. And if there's genital contact involved, then yes, it's sex. Does it matter what genders are involved? Um, I don't think so. Should it? People having sex are people having sex, regardless of gender-identity. Link to post Share on other sites
Cate Perfect Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Once AGAIN, I agree with Julie. Anything that involves genital contact (with another person) is sex, to my mind. I think that it's different for everyone--some people don't think oral sex is sex to which I say, 'Well, it has the word "sex" in it, so why do you have to ask?' That's like saying, 'Hey, is London, England in England?' 'Well, you just said, "England" so I'm guessing yes.' Dur. Anyway genital contact=sex. Cate Link to post Share on other sites
Jayann Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 'Hey, is London, England in England?' 'Well, you just said, "England" so I'm guessing yes.' Dur. HAHA! Cate presents Geography for Retards! :D Cate and I agree on a LOT. Wow. I think we have yet to disagree with one another on...just about anything. Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Ew! Ew!! **raises hand** I wanna bust out complicated social theory.... So peeing is sex? Getting a prostate or gynachological(sp?) exam is sex? BDSM (which does not necessarily involve genitalia) isn't sex? Lesbain sex (which need not be FOCUSED on genitalia, and may not involve it at all) isn't necessarily about sex? And french kissing isn't "sexual"? (No genitalia.) The topic of what is and isn't sex is actually both extremely complicated and of vital importance to talking analytically about asexuality (and sexuality.) I would say that what "counts" and "doesn't count" as sex is socially defined, and varies somewhat widely. Link to post Share on other sites
Jayann Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 So peeing is sex? I dunno. Does peeing include stimulation of the genitals? Doesn't for me. Getting a prostate or gynachological(sp?) exam is sex? Again with the stimulation. I ought to have been more specific that the stimulation (whether of another's body part or one's own) ought to be intentional, and not a byproduct of examination. BDSM (which does not necessarily involve genitalia) isn't sex? That's a tricky one. Not sure I want to touch on it, as I've little education in the area. The idea is stimulation in the nether regions through feelings of danger, submission, domination...getting off (in the genital region) on the stimulation provided by those feelings. But I could be mistaken. Lesbian sex (which need not be FOCUSED on genitalia, and may not involve it at all) isn't necessarily about sex? I guess I don't know how lesbians have sex then. I mostly presumed it was generally of an oral/manual nature. Hmm, non-genital sex? But is there still the stimulation in the genital area with the intent of pleasure? And french kissing isn't "sexual"? (No genitalia.) Perhaps it's sexual. But it's not sex. Can you get off on french kissing? I wonder just how many asexuals engage in french kissing? I would say that what "counts" and "doesn't count" as sex is socially defined, and varies somewhat widely. I dunno...not sure just how much I agree with that analysis. Hmm... Link to post Share on other sites
Cate Perfect Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Yeah. I'm with Julie. Perhaps we should say 'stimulating the genitals in the hopes of creating pleasure'. And I do think that sex is partially defined by society, just like nearly everything else. Cate Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I know I'm on shaky theoretical ground (a question to ask might be: why do we put genital stimulation in a category seperate from other types of stimulation?) But I'm gonna push this... Peeing is still stimulation (true it FEELS different, but there's still a sensation. In fact it still feels good. That is to say, we're talking about a specific type of genital-involved pleasure, the release of peeing doesn't count.) The exam- so it's gotta be stimulation for stimulation's sake? Is intentional stimulation any physically different than unintentional stimulation (there is, of course, a huge SOCIAL difference, which is part of my point.) BDSM- while it's certainly stimulating (I also don't know THAT much about it) it's not necessarily about being genitally stimulating. Though the stimulation is certainly thought about as sexual. Lesbians- A good portion of the pallete of lesbian sexuality does involve genitalia, but in certain lesbian circles it need not be genital to be defined as sex. If you're naked or mostly-naked squirming around in bed together that's good enough (again, I'm going on heresay here, obviously). In fact there's a whole school of sexual thought which says that sex is better when it's NOT focused on penetration and orgasm. For sexual people, good sex is sex that's not about sex. What does THAT tell you? French kissing- of course an equally relevant question to ask is "what's sexuality?" Sexuality is most certainly socially defined, and the less we think of heterocentric ideas of sexuality focused on penitation and (male) orgasm the more the line between "sex" and "sexuality" gets blurred. In queer communities, where "sex" can mean 70 almost completely distinct things it doesn't matter whether or not you're "having sex" and more if you're "hooking up" (being sexual.) Just something to think about. The more you try to draw a clear line the hazier it gets... (Which is , coincidentally, good for us. If there's no way to distinguish stuff that's sex from stuff that isn't there's no way to say that sex deserves special importance.) Link to post Share on other sites
Gorax Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Yes to all, except for what AVENguy pointed out. It's late, I'm tired, and I lost all my new posts after 2 days of not logging in. This short reply will have to do for now hehe. Link to post Share on other sites
petitedrag Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 mental of physical activities that sexually stimulating = sex am i making sense here? :roll: Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 petite- yes, but "sexually stimulating" isn't any clearer a term than sex. What makes one type of stimulation sexual and another not? Link to post Share on other sites
Jayann Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 mental of physical activities that sexually stimulating = sexam i making sense here? :roll: Well...you weren't to me, actually, until I reread it. Should this read, "mental OR physical activities that ARE sexually stimulating = sex"? Cause that makes more sense (structurally speaking, if not logically). Link to post Share on other sites
bard of aven Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Getting a prostate or gynachological(sp?) exam is sex? This will be considered gross by some. You may want to skip it. Several years ago, during a routine physical, my pianist-fingered physician touched a nerve (literally) during the prostate exam that no one else has ever found, that for about three seconds provided me with the most intense orgasm I have ever experienced (very nearly passed out from the intensity), but without any emissions whatever (much to my surprise--I was sure when it happened that I had shot all over the place, but nothing. I guess orgasms really do take place in the brain). I did not then and do not now think there was anything at all sexual about it. Feel free to disagree, but you weren't there. So my questions, AvenGuy, is, what, in detail, are your answers to the original questions of this thread? boa Link to post Share on other sites
petitedrag Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 OR, yes thank you Julie :) Aven, i just realize that my statement was very incomplete in explaining what i was trying to say. For some people sex is only physical, but for others it's also mental, and that's why it's hard to explain it because it's too abstract It might be easier to explain what is NOT :) example: BDSM, if it doens't involve genitalia, or exposing genitalia, or the arousal of hormone that causes the urge to copulate or to fantasize about genitalia, then it's just purely for endorphin rush :? ok, so that prollie still isn't a complete explanation Link to post Share on other sites
skatepixie Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Well...if its called oral and anal "sex"...then its "sex"..isnt it? Link to post Share on other sites
Gorax Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Oh oh oh!! I forgot something in my last post! If you would happen to get in a fight and grab your opponent's balls, squeeze and twist, that's not sex either :D Link to post Share on other sites
orderinchaos Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I'm interested to see what you believe counts as having sex. Does oral sex count as having sex? Does anal sex count as having sex? Does intimate touching count as having sex? Does cyber sex count as having sex? Does phone sex count as having sex? Does masturbation count as having sex? Does it matter what genders are involved? I agree with Avenguy that it's socially defined. My own definitions, I guess, come from having done all of the above lots, and comparing how I feel about them. My own answers, however, are ... 1. Maybe (depends on context) 2. Yes 3. No (is sexual but not having sex) 4. No (is pathetic but not having sex) 5. No (see 4) 6. No 7. No - if you're attracted to someone it's all the same deal :P Just as a curiosity, why was the most common form of sex, vaginal, left out? :P Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Well...if its called oral and anal "sex"...then its "sex"..isnt it? You raise a really apt point. Sex is sex becuase it's called sex, and not for any other reason. It may sound circular (it is), but that's what it means for something to be socially defined. Link to post Share on other sites
bard of aven Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Well...if its called oral and anal "sex"...then its "sex"..isnt it? You raise a really apt point. Sex is sex becuase it's called sex, and not for any other reason. It may sound circular (it is), but that's what it means for something to be socially defined. So the social nature/essence of a thing is totally attributable to the name it carries? It has no meaning outside of the words used to refer to it? (The money analogy has some telling parallels here.) Function, action, intent, and any number of aspects do not enter into it? It all comes down to neming-words? Language, as one member's sig says, is a barrier. I'll go a little further: Language well-mined bridge. If the essence of social interactions inheres in the words used to describe them, call the medics: we're all going to get our legs boown off. boa Link to post Share on other sites
petitedrag Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Oh oh oh!! I forgot something in my last post!If you would happen to get in a fight and grab your opponent's balls, squeeze and twist, that's not sex either :D what if your opponent likes it? :?: Link to post Share on other sites
dabishop Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 There's that 'intent' thing again...which goes much of the way toward defining whether someone's act is or isn't 'sexual'. But the rest of the definition comes from the other person(s) involved. The media uses the term 'consensual sex' a lot (as opposed to the kind that ought to be punishable by death), but the meaning goes beyond the strictly legal; two people can agree to fool around, but I'd think they also have to agree that what just took place was indeed sex, and not some clumsy, 60-second hump that looks more like rockwall climbing with a bad cramp. One can just be so awful at it that his/her partner would deny sex had even taken place. (Trust me, I'm not speaking from experience here). Then they would realize they just weren't cut out for that kind of foolish activity, and be much happier for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Cate Perfect Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Precisely, Bishop! Cate Link to post Share on other sites
aury Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 anything that involves someone craming something (penis, dildo, food stuffs, etc.) into another person's orafices & gyrating. Link to post Share on other sites
true Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 SEX is a subjective concept for me, just like everything else. I feel like I've had sex, though I never have had anyone in my pants. Maybe to me and my lover it was just more of an emotional connection, and not "getting all up in there" that made us feel like we had already "done it". . . we were just so. . . connected. I don't know how to explain it, but it was like I could feel her physically miles away. . . I knew when she hurt her leg that it was her left hip, because I could feel it, I could FEEL it. . . I mean, just being close to her, so connected like that. . . she said she felt like we had (and she's sexual, so. . . ) Link to post Share on other sites
wombat Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I agree with Julie.....YES! Link to post Share on other sites
Cate Perfect Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Aury: I think you may have come up with a definition that could put ANYONE off sex. Congratulations! *Hands aury a tiara* Cate Link to post Share on other sites
aury Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 YAY!!!!!!!!! *leaps into a series of splits in the air* Link to post Share on other sites
JKReagan99 Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 I also agree that it really comes down to what society believes/the individual believes. Some of the definitions brought up so far, I see as not being complete (though i'm not sure we could come up with a complete & accurate definition.) For example: anything that involves someone craming something (penis, dildo, food stuffs, etc.) into another person's orafices & gyrating. In addition to creating a definition that really can put people off sex, this definition, I think, leaves out a couple things I would consider 'sex,' like two gay guys masterbating each other off, or just masturbation in general (though that is not as clearly defined as sex.) And then if we start to put pleasure into the equation, you have people who don't/can't feel pleasure, or have sex strictly for procreation, so not everyone who does have sex has it for pleasure... Link to post Share on other sites
Worthless Poster Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 As far as Cyber or Phone Sex... I think it depends if you're aroused by it at all... I mean, I've given in to a few (two) of my guy friends who really wanted to cyber... it was... mildly entertaining simply due to the fact I learned a lot about the process of it that I didn't know before... but I mean, it didn't do anything for me. The guys, however... we won't go there. (Why they feel the need to tell me these things, I don't even want to know....) It's so stupid, but a lot of people DO get off on it, so if that's why you do it, I guess it could count... but if it's just a bored passing of time that doesn nothing for you, physically, or emotionally, then definitely no. It's no different than platonically discussing the act of sex. Link to post Share on other sites
AVENguy Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 SEX is a subjective concept for me, just like everything else. I feel like I've had sex, though I never have had anyone in my pants. Maybe to me and my lover it was just more of an emotional connection, and not "getting all up in there" that made us feel like we had already "done it". . . we were just so. . . connected. I don't know how to explain it, but it was like I could feel her physically miles away. . . I knew when she hurt her leg that it was her left hip, because I could feel it, I could FEEL it. . . I mean, just being close to her, so connected like that. . . she said she felt like we had (and she's sexual, so. . . ) So here's the rub of all this: If sex doesn't really MEAN anything then what does it mean to be asexual (or sexual for that matter?) As anyone who read the nerve article knows I hooked up with a friend of mine sometime last spring. Some friends of mine were questioning me about it last night and we came to the conclusion that because what was going on wasn't fulfilling some desire of mine- because I wasn't into it- it wasn't "really" sexual. So for an asexual person kissing (or maybe even fucking) someone is not sexual, while being in a close intimate relationship with them is (if we are to follow the above examples.) I'll leave it at that for now. Link to post Share on other sites
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