LGBT and fakers.

[Janus the Fox]

5 hours ago, Just Me, Myself and I said:

If someone's going to 'fake' being LGBT+, wouldn't a sexuality, especially a better-known one, be easier to fake than a gender?

It'll be extremely difficult pretending to be gay, even bigger challenge to make any romantic or sexual contact with the same sex without some other motive.  Similar to fake trying to present as the opposite gender without again, some other motive.  Faking I don't think is going to feel comfortable for long for persons that have no underlining LGBT motives.

[litanies]

The argument is off the point on its own--regardless of how many fakers are out there.  I mean, think about all the stuff people do to fit in at every age.  It's like saying, "Because lots of highschool kids play sports to be cool, athletics is fake/irrelevant and dedicated athletes don't deserve recognition or respect."  Or look at religion.  How many people take up yoga or buy meditation cushions because they think Buddhism will make them look cool and spiritual?  That doesn't invalidate Buddhism as a faith.

 

And don't get me started on the extent to which "majority" sexualities and gender identities are full of people faking one thing or another for social acceptance.  Who care if someone is faking a majority or minority membership?  Fakes are found everywhere.

[Toothlesss]

30 minutes ago, litanies said:

The argument is off the point on its own--regardless of how many fakers are out there.  I mean, think about all the stuff people do to fit in at every age.  It's like saying, "Because lots of highschool kids play sports to be cool, athletics is fake/irrelevant and dedicated athletes don't deserve recognition or respect."  Or look at religion.  How many people take up yoga or buy meditation cushions because they think Buddhism will make them look cool and spiritual?  That doesn't invalidate Buddhism as a faith.

 

And don't get me started on the extent to which "majority" sexualities and gender identities are full of people faking one thing or another for social acceptance.  Who care if someone is faking a majority or minority membership?  Fakes are found everywhere.

I'm on mobile so I can't edit quotes without it taking ages, but all this.

 

When I'm out of the house,  sometimes I feel I need to fake being cis, because society only thinks in binary terms. :/  Sometimes i long to be misgendered as opposite of being seen as a *cough* woman. 

[litanies]

Just now, Toothlesss said:

I'm on mobile so I can't edit quotes without it taking ages, but all this.

 

When I'm out of the house,  sometimes I feel I need to fake being cis, because society only thinks in binary terms. :/  Sometimes i long to be misgendered as opposite of being seen as a *cough* woman. 

My gender expression matches my sex, so most people don't even know I'm agender.  I don't even have to fake being cis; it's automatic :/  It makes life easy day-to-day, but I feel invisible.

[SkyWorld]

Oi... I was going to share my own experiences regarding this, but I feel like that that's a bit too "personal" for this thread since it's about people "faking" it in general, and I might come across as ranty.

 

I think it's a very small percentage of people who "fake" it. It would take a lot of time and energy to do, it's just illogical. Sure, more people are coming out and education about it is increasing, doesn't necessarily mean it's a "fad". Did it ever occur to them that maybe some people are coming out more because people are (supposedly) growing more accepting? Did it ever occur to them that maybe some people just want to feel more comfortable with themselves? 

 

It's totally okay, normal, and expected for people to try to figure themselves out and branch out a bit. And while they're on that journey, they could be "wrong". However, they also could have been "right". It's not necessarily something someone might automatically just "get it" about themselves all their lives; there's so so many factors that goes into that, I don't want to bother listing them all, but I think a major thing is just someone learning to accept themselves rather than deny it. And hell, probably spending their life "faking" to be someone they're not to fit in with the majority of the population (because that's safer for some people). So, yeah, it could go both ways. Just some food for thought.

[litanies]

24 minutes ago, SkyWorld said:

 

It's totally okay, normal, and expected for people to try to figure themselves out and branch out a bit. And while they're on that journey, they could be "wrong". However, they also could have been "right".

I totally agree.  I think a lot of folks who are bicurious for example mistakenly misrepresent as bisexual.  They don't mean any harm by it--they just don't know the extra word, or don't have the self-awareness yet to distinguish what they're experiencing or trying to do.   

[cooliocool]

It's possible to fake these things but it's rare to see it in LGBT. It's wrong to assume that everyone is a phony. 

[Was here]

I honestly don't understand how and why people would fake these things.

 

Coming from a stupid teenager who's questioning who I am, thinking I might be trans/NB.

 

I feel like these "fake" people might just be confusing words, or not taking everything into consideration when talking/thinking/questioning gender/sexuality. I called myself bisexual once just because I didn't know asexual was a word, which is probably a bad example, because bisexual means attraction to both sexes, not no attraction, so yeah :/ and I was pretty young when I said it.

 

the person in the,"I must be trans because I'm not feminine" example would probably not be thinking about the shape of her body, her genitals, etc.

 

And how is everyone supposed to know who they are since they where born in a society that says you have a penis/vagina, so you must be a boy/girl, and you're a boy/girl, so you must like girls/boys? Everyone has a different narrative for how they figured out who they are, some earlier and easier, some later and/or harder to have figured out.

 

I don't know. I'm bad with words. I just know that's how I feel right now. Like I might be fake and lying to myself even though I'm legitimately questioning myself, thinking about everything about me and my body, and not just going ,"I might be (gender) because i'm not (gender expression) enough/I'm too (gender expression)". Maybe I'll find out I'm actually cis in the future, I don't know, but for now I'm just questioning it and thinking about it (obsessively I might add, but I get that way with a lot of things), and not outright going," Yep, I'm (gender), because I thought about only my gender expression for literally three seconds". Although I go back and forth on it, going from," I really think I'm (gender)" to," What's wrong with me? Of course I'm a girl, I'm supposed to be, that's what I was born as." but that might be socialization, cisheteronormativity (or is that the same as socialization?) and denial. Or I'm genderfluid. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

EDIT: It's been hard enough for me to ask friends (online) to call me or refer to me as "they" to anyone else because I feel like it makes me look like a "special snowflake" (I hate that term). I've already had people tell me,"if you have a vagina and boobs, you're female" "Lil helicopter" and "I bet you're a girl because you're more emotional than a third grade kappa" and the one I hate the most,"so you want to be a guy/man?" "so you want a penis?" "so you're thinking about becoming a man?" all I asked was that you call me "they" when talking about me to someone else, I feel embarrassed to go any further with explaining it. I know my friends meant well, where joking, or where just curious, but jesus Christ.

 

 

[cakeman]

7 hours ago, AnonAsker said:

because bisexual means attraction to both sexes

 

 

No it doesn't bi means attraction to two genders, usually the binary ones. Just saying.. But I fully agree!

[Was here]

Just now, cakeman said:

No it doesn't bi means attraction to two genders, usually the binary ones. Just saying.. But I fully agree!

that's what i meant. or at least,that's how it's usualy used. sorry i meant the old fashioned way, heh. because i though pansexual included other genders that weren't binary.

[chair jockey]

The universality of the Self-Identification Rule contributes to the existence of people like your sister. Since no one can be inside someone else's mind, the only way to know if someone identifies a certain way is for them to say that they do. That leaves open the possibility that they're lying, because the fact that you can't be inside their minds also means you can never be 100% sure that they aren't lying, about anything, ever. While I find your sister's attitude reprehensible, I can understand where she's coming from on a theoretical level. Basing an entire social structure entirely on what people say about themselves is just not going to sit well with everyone because too many people have too much bad experience with dishonesty in marketing, sales, and government, and it affects how they perceive any statement anyone makes. But many members of marginalized groups are so afraid of others trying to "fix" them that they'd rather put up with the fallibilities of verbal self-identification than permit hard-science research into how their orientation works, so the problems inherent in the Self-Identification Rule are intractable and will never be solved.

[andreas1033]

Sex obsessed people always have to reinforce how they are sexually active, and try to think its the norm.

They cannot fathom, there is people not like them.

I will always be glad i was totally asexual, and always will be as a male. Its why years ago asexual males just went away and lived in monasteries, so they could get away from all this obsession with sex that most adults have, and try to push on everyone.

There has always been people whom do not fit the way that most obsess and think everyone is.

So speaking for myself(thats all anyone can do), i was always asexual. Staying a virgin, only was a problem for others, so my life showed this, and i am sure many of you also show this, that others only care about you not wanting to be like them.

I do not think of asexual, being part of lgbt. No one can talk for others, as the vast majority could never speak for others, all they are obsessed with is how they want to see everyone doing what they think of as normal.

I will always be grateful, i never panted for no female, as a male, like most males do. I will always be grateful, i have nout in common with most males, and how they behave, and or what they are into.

[Emery.]

It doesn't matter why someone is gay. I don't understand the pronounced interest with this one particular aspect of gender non-conformity. Why is it even anyone's business? And if a straight couple was infertile, then would everybody ask for the specific medical condition causing that? Why is it anybody's interest? Gender likewise. If someone thinks that you can claim to be a different gender over an extended peiod of time without pain, they are very wrong. Does it matter why someone is trans? No, at least for all purposes and intents of everyday life. Basic respect, that's how that's called. 

[KendraPM]

6 hours ago, AnonAsker said:

that's what i meant. or at least,that's how it's usualy used. sorry i meant the old fashioned way, heh. because i though pansexual included other genders that weren't binary.

The term "pan" simple means "all." So a pansexual is someone who is attracted to "all" genders, binary and non-binary. It's also commonly used to refer to people which whom gender is a non-issue, meaning that who they are attracted to has nothing to do with the gender of the person, ergo they are able to be attracted to all genders.

"Bi" means "two," so a bisexual would be attracted to two genders. Which two? Any two, the limit is on the number of genders, but not which genders. There is no specification which two genders the person is attracted too.

"Poly" is the term for "many." I typically take polysexual to to mean when someone is attracted to more than two genders, but not all the genders.

 

Of course there are going to be people who are more comfortable with different terms based on their attraction, and people who could point out there are still some gray area, but from a language standpoint, that's the actual translation of each word.

[Was here]

9 hours ago, KendraPM said:

The term "pan" simple means "all." So a pansexual is someone who is attracted to "all" genders, binary and non-binary. It's also commonly used to refer to people which whom gender is a non-issue, meaning that who they are attracted to has nothing to do with the gender of the person, ergo they are able to be attracted to all genders.

"Bi" means "two," so a bisexual would be attracted to two genders. Which two? Any two, the limit is on the number of genders, but not which genders. There is no specification which two genders the person is attracted too.

"Poly" is the term for "many." I typically take polysexual to to mean when someone is attracted to more than two genders, but not all the genders.

 

Of course there are going to be people who are more comfortable with different terms based on their attraction, and people who could point out there are still some gray area, but from a language standpoint, that's the actual translation of each word.

ohhh, sorry I got that wrong then ^^;;;

[Binary_fiction]

On 2017-05-20 at 9:41 PM, AVEN #1 fan said:

That's stupid.

 

 

My country is a champion in killing Transgender, I didn't choose to be that way.

 

 

I also hate when gender non-conforming people pretend to be Trans:

"Oh look at me I'm a genderfluid demiboy nanogirl, just bc  I don't wear dresses nor make up, nor am submissive"

 

I'm sorry but what? Can you please stop invalidating non-binary identities? 

 

Is there some peoe who use NB as a trend, I will concede that but what you just said is so wrong...

 

I am a non-binary person (agender) and I consider myself transgender. I don't identify with the gender I was assigned at birth... I experience dysphoria... I experience transphobia... I have been physically assaulted and verbally insulted for being who I am. How dare you say that NB people pretend to be trans because they aren't the same as you...

 

I sure as hell don't identify as a cis male so don't come here and say that NB are just playing "pretend".

[AVEN #1 fan]

1 hour ago, Binary_fiction said:

I'm sorry but what? Can you please stop invalidating non-binary identities? 

 

Is there some peoe who use NB as a trend, I will concede that but what you just said is so wrong...

 

I am a non-binary person (agender) and I consider myself transgender. I don't identify with the gender I was assigned at birth... I experience dysphoria... I experience transphobia... I have been physically assaulted and verbally insulted for being who I am. How dare you say that NB people pretend to be trans because they aren't the same as you...

 

I sure as hell don't identify as a cis male so don't come here and say that NB are just playing "pretend".

I'll just assume you read only this part or didn't even get it.

 

 

I'm criticizing people who think "gender non-conforming = having complicated Transgender identity automatically"

 

I'm non-binary too and guess what? I have dysphoria,  social and body, and I suffer transphobia and sexism and my life is pretty much messed up.... and people still think I choose that to get pity from others. Transtrenders on the other hand rather be closeted, or have identities of complicated understanding to protect themselves.

[Binary_fiction]

30 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said:

I'll just assume you read only this part or didn't even get it.

 

 

I'm criticizing people who think "gender non-conforming = having complicated Transgender identity automatically"

 

I'm non-binary too and guess what? I have dysphoria,  social and body, and I suffer transphobia and sexism and my life is pretty much messed up.... and people still think I choose that to get pity from others. Transtrenders on the other hand rather be closeted, or have identities of complicated understanding to protect themselves.

You assume a whole lot out of people and juge people according to your standards... It reflected in your previous post and still does in this one as well. You should not question someone else's identity because they seems silly or unreal to you and you aren't the one who decide who's trans and who's not or who's a trend and who isn't. Making fun of people and turning their identity into ridicule isn't okay, even if you believe them not "legit". Remember trans people can be transphobic too...

 

There is no "elite" trans and NB that are "more" trans or non-conforming than the rest... Your jugement of those individuals invalidate them and I find that offensive.

[AVEN #1 fan]

3 minutes ago, Binary_fiction said:

You assume a whole lot out of people and juge people according to your standards... It reflected in your previous post and still does in this one as well. You should not question someone else's identity because they seems silly or unreal to you and you aren't the one who decide who's trans and who's not or who's a trend and who isn't. Making fun of people and turning their identity into ridicule isn't okay, even if you believe them not "legit". Remember trans people can be transphobic too...

 

There is no "elite" trans and NB that are "more" trans or non-conforming than the rest... Your jugement of those individuals invalidate them and I find that offensive.

Yeah right, let's support nbs who identify as mayonnaise, unicorn or waffle. yay to diversity!

[Guest Deus Ex Infinity]

On 21.5.2017 at 3:07 AM, cakeman said:

So I have a sister who is very transphobic and against the LGBT community in general :(. She said that every person who was non-binary was faking and it was just an attention thing (She called them "Special Snowflakes.". So my question is, Do you think that there are actually a significant amount of LGBT fakes and any other thoughts on the subject.

I don't see any reason or advantage to fake GLBT identities and never met a person who did so. Even if it would be for special attention it's just ridiculous.

[Binary_fiction]

6 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said:

Yeah right, let's support nbs who identify as mayonnaise, unicorn or waffle. yay to diversity!

You know as much as I do that those people aren't identifying as non-binary, they are mostly insulting NB people voluntarily. What I'm taking about is how in your first post you insult gender-non conforming individuals simply based on the fact that what they identify with sounds silly.

 

right now you have a great opportunity to retract your comment and say you are out of line but instead you keep shoving that foot in your mouth, deeper and deeper. Please go read your post again and try to see it from a different perspective instead of insulting people further and further by trying to defend your post.

[AVEN #1 fan]

18 minutes ago, Binary_fiction said:

You know as much as I do that those people aren't identifying as non-binary, they are mostly insulting NB people voluntarily. What I'm taking about is how in your first post you insult gender-non conforming individuals simply based on the fact that what they identify with sounds silly.

 

right now you have a great opportunity to retract your comment and say you are out of line but instead you keep shoving that foot in your mouth, deeper and deeper. Please go read your post again and try to see it from a different perspective instead of insulting people further and further by trying to defend your post.

Yeah, whatever freedom of expression, how do you know if they're insulting nb people? how do you know if they're not being for real identifying as "wafflegender", "slimegender", "cocoongender", "digigender", "chaosgender", etc ?

 

"If I identified as wafflegender , would you say sorry for calling my gender a bad joke? If you judge the rationality behind my gender, what stops me from judging yours ?"

[Binary_fiction]

Just now, AVEN #1 fan said:

Yeah, whatever freedom of expression, how do you know if they're insulting nb people? how do you know if they're not being for real identifying as "wafflegender", "slimegender", "cocoongender", "digigender", "chaosgender", etc ?

 

"If I identified as wafflegender , would you say sorry for calling my gender a joke?"

First of all because identifying as an inanimate object or an imaginary character is impossible. Don't try to turn this one on me... You are the one who's invalidating non-conforming genders here.

 

Someone that identify as Demi- something (boy/girl/others) is a way to say they aren't strongly associating with this or that gender. We aren't talking about associating with a pastry here or a mythical creature, we are talking about genuine gender identities. Please stop trying to twist my words to defend your post.

[AVEN #1 fan]

28 minutes ago, Binary_fiction said:

First of all because identifying as an inanimate object or an imaginary character is impossible. Don't try to turn this one on me... You are the one who's invalidating non-conforming genders here.

 

Someone that identify as Demi- something (boy/girl/others) is a way to say they aren't strongly associating with this or that gender. We aren't talking about associating with a pastry here or a mythical creature, we are talking about genuine gender identities. Please stop trying to twist my words to defend your post.

You're twisting my words.... as nb you should know that binary people always told us it's impossible to have any of our identities. You're just being biased like me or them when you judge the veracity of another person's gender identity, if there's wafflegender people out there they would feel offended by that comment.

 

II'm not talking about identifying solely as food, you should take a look at the genders above, some people rly believe it's possible to identify with these, some are even from lgbt+/mogai blogs.

[TheAP]

It's strange--I hear people talk all the time about people adopting LGBT identities to be "special", but I never see any actual evidence that they do it for this reason.

[AVEN #1 fan]

1 minute ago, TheAP said:

It's strange--I hear people talk all the time about people adopting LGBT identities to be "special", but I never see any actual evidence that they do it for this reason.

Pity? Political position? attention?  escape sexism? 

[TheAP]

3 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said:

Pity? Political position? attention?  escape sexism? 

Yes, those are potential reasons why someone would fake being LGBT. But what I meant was that I don't see any evidence that many people are faking it.

[AVEN #1 fan]

Just now, TheAP said:

Yes, those are potential reasons why someone would fake being LGBT. But what I meant was that I don't see any evidence that many people are faking it.

Well I only see people identifying like "digigender ", "cocoongender ", "chaosgender ", "slimegender ", "wafflegender ", etc.

[chridd]

1 hour ago, AVEN #1 fan said:

Yeah right, let's support nbs who identify as mayonnaise, unicorn or waffle. yay to diversity!

...are these people actually saying they identify as unicorn etc., or are they people who fill out profile fields non-seriously?  I mean, just scrolling up this thread, I see locations "Catnada", "Junk memory block", "Here", and on other forums I've seen "Location Location", ":noitacoL", "Wonderland", "Somewhere in the solar system", "nowhere", "Web exclusive", and plenty of other things that either clearly aren't the person's location or don't actually give useful information about their location (or in some cases give information other than location; I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one person put their pronoun preference in the location field because there was no pronoun field on that particular forum).  These people (I assume) aren't faking or making fun of people in unusual locations; they're just filling out profile fields non-seriously.  Presumably plenty of people do the same thing with "gender" or "pronoun" fields (and in fact, I know of at least one person who I'm pretty sure is a trans woman (not non-binary) on another site whose gender field is clearly not a gender).

[Binary_fiction]

50 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said:

You're twisting my words.... as nb you should know that binary people always told us it's impossible to have any of our identities. You're just being biased like me or them when you judge the veracity of another person's gender identity, if there's wafflegender people out there they would feel offended by that comment.

 

II'm not talking about identifying solely as food, you should take a look at the genders above, some people rly believe it's possible to identify with these, some are even from lgbt+/mogai blogs.

I took a look at those and I can tell you that while I have difficulty grasping some of them, some actually make sense. A cocoon gender individual doesn't have the fille xtend of their gender, it has "yet to be". By definition, a lot of people's genderfluid people might feel that they haven't seen the final form of where their gender identity will take them.

 

Furthermore, chaosgender is a form of fluidity where the person's identity is spontaneous and basically the user is unsure of their own gender at that point. Again, very valid for some genderfluid individuals who can feel that their identity fluctuate in very big spikes.

 

Slimegender are people who's gender identity mixes together in an inseparable way... Kind of a bit of a mix between bi/multi genders and gender fluidity... Again that can make sense for some people.

 

wafflegender, unlike what I previously thought, is not to refer as a waffle like you led me to believe in one of your posts... It's actually a term to designate someone who's gender is mellow and blended, not a strong note of everything I guess. Which, again can make sense to some people.

 

the only one on your list that I have difficulty grasping is the idea of digigender which I still won't invalidate but have a hard time grasping because I have had little time to research.

 

dont pit me with you and at I invalidate others, I believe in gender diversity and to me gender is a spectrum with near infinite combinations even if mine is that of an agender individual.