a delicate rant

[butterflydreams]

I'm going to try to do this as delicately as possible. I ranted to my friend about it today no holds barred, but that was an unrefined, shotgun blast of a rant. I know she knows how I feel, and that I'm not a bad person, so I can say what I want without a lot of tact and she'll get the meaning.

 

Background:

Some months ago, I signed up to be an adult volunteer for a local (hate this word) queer youth organization. Basically they want LGBT adults to watch the kids and make sure shit stays under control. Easy. I had to do training, which consisted of the organization representative, myself, and 4 other people. I was the only AMAB person in that room. This did register in my head as noteworthy.

 

Present day:

I get an email yesterday from the organization rep, saying that there's some kind of event they're holding this weekend, and they're in desperate need of people for transfeminine spaces of some kind, and would I be interested in doing it. I said 'yes'. I'm not terribly surprised. My suspicions seem to be correct: there aren't a lot of transfemme people around, and if there are, they hide away from these groups. Can't say I blame them.

 

And here's my rant. When you go to this organization's website, all the photos are trendy-looking AFABs, half of whom have funky-colored hair and they all just look very similar. I'm sorry...I don't like the vibe I get from all of it. I should preface this by saying that at no time do I ever believe that you shouldn't do you. Hell, I'll always strongly advocate for that. That isn't what this is about. But the vibe I get clashes with my lived experiences. I have wrong genitals that give me a lot of distress, my voice is never going to be normal, and I'm pretty sure no one is ever going to want me romantically, to say nothing of sexually. This isn't trendy. This sucks. I'd like support, but I'd really like to minimize its presence in and impact on my life. The last thing I want to do is walk around showing this part of myself, or drawing any attention to myself.

 

So I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated that this thing, that still causes me distress, and has been so difficult is being lumped in with these happy-go-lucky people who do not face the same challenges that I do. I don't begrudge them for existing, but I do begrudge them for dominating these kinds of organizations and spaces. Cis lesbians and AFAB NBs...sorry, I'm looking at you here. And the proof in the pudding is that they reached out to me because even they know they're short on transfeminine people like me. I almost don't even want to volunteer, because it feels hopeless. What can I change? How can I open anyone's mind? It also makes me feel like the only one, and like these groups don't represent me at all. How could they? They clearly aren't incorporating people like me into the mix.

 

And a semi-related data mining anecdote:

I've found it interesting to search for people on a popular online dating application based on their answers to certain questions. Like, I wanted to know has anyone ever answered "yes" to "are there any circumstances under which someone is obligated to have sex with you?" Indeed, people have answered yes to that question...yikes.

 

But consider the following. One question, "What is your opinion on same sex relationships?" and the options are, it's all bad, it's all ok, guy-guy is bad girl-girl is ok, guy-guy is ok girl-girl is bad. I was able to find dozens of people even within 50 miles who say that guy-guy is bad, but girl-girl is ok. Do you know how many I found who said that guy-guy is ok but girl-girl is bad? Zero. I went up to 250 miles (including major metro areas like Boston and NYC) and still found zero. Consider that. Consider that how apparently hated women are, most people don't seem to mind if we're in relationships with each other.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but all of this adds up for me. It adds up to AFAB people being incredibly privileged in LGBT spaces. I never see anyone discussing that, and I'm tired of being silent about it.

[ScribalMarks]

OK, I didn't even know this was an issue. :/ As a feminist I know that there is a lot of discourse about accommodating trans issues without excluding or dismissing the native sexual identities ( male / female at birth ) of others.

[butterflydreams]

Just now, AmaechiJones said:

OK, I didn't even know this was an issue.

I think it is an issue, and I don't see anyone talking about it. If I were younger, and trying to transition, and utilizing these services...I'd feel incredibly put off. I'd actually resent them, and I'd resent myself for being what I was. Oh wait...that actually happened to me. Between 2003 and 2007. I felt put off by them, and actually started arguing against gay marriage in my classes at the time.

 

It concerns the shit out of me that there is an enormous deficit of AMAB non-binary people. It should concern everyone. Because either it means that non binary is bullshit...or it means that there is a huge unsupported mass of AMAB non-binary people out there. Neither one of those things are good, so hopefully people would have some concern about this.

[ScribalMarks]

In feminist circles there is talk, at risk of many being called 'T.E.R.F.s', trans-exclusionary radical feminists. I suspect there are more AMABs, perhaps their methods of dealing with their issues are different from those of AFABs, considering the new gender roles they are trying to live in.

[Moophie]

Sigh, first of all with the website: this is what happens when you have adults governing stuff for younger people. They can't see kids as people, more like some kind of other species they need to understand. But only on the surface. 'Hey, I saw a kid with pink hair the other day... let's give them all pink hair! I'm hip!' lol

 

Aside from that I do notice that guys tend to be downplayed when it comes to representation in non-straight anything. Gay men are almost never fully represented in media, and when they are it's usually laughable. Hollywood considers the image of two men being intimate with one another to be akin to porn and set a higher rating on movies. And... I mean, I can't even think of a single trans character to set as an example so... yeah.

 

This is one of those situations where the gender-oppression coin is flipped... except it's a different coin in this case... and males are downplayed more than females and the general public doesn't have a problem with it. 

 

It's all bad. And it won't stop anytime soon. We spend so much time as young people, and then as adults teaching young people that girls and boys are different. So you have to treat them differently! Boys are better in these areas, girls are better in these areas, this is gender appropriate, etc, etc, blah, blah, bullshit. Yeah, it's engrained. Heavily.

 

It's interesing sometimes to see how it filters down into various areas of society. Like this particular issue you're talking about. Interesting... and incredibly frustrating.

[butterflydreams]

22 minutes ago, Moophie said:

This is one of those situations where the gender-oppression coin is flipped... except it's a different coin in this case... and males are downplayed more than females and the general public doesn't have a problem with it.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't dominate the relevant spaces and seem largely oblivious to the problem. As my anecdotal data mining seems to corroborate, people have a real problem with AMABs who step out of line. Who step out of any line. It clearly isn't as simple as female = worse therefore male transitioning to female is bad. I want to bang my head through a wall with how simplistic that reasoning is. What about gay men? What about regular-old, not really femme, gay men?

 

We're always supposed to listen to what people from a group are saying, right? Well listen to me when I say that you don't know what hellfire looks like until you are an AMAB who steps out of line. It has nothing to do with how you step out, and it's not about women. It's the fact that you step out of line at all. 

 

How am I supposed to feel anything but hurt and dismissed when I see these happy-go-lucky people running these spaces, running the entire narrative? Sure, it's ok for them to make waves, be visible, draw attention to themselves, talk about how "passing isn't important" blah blah blah. If I don't pass, I can suffer real, serious consequences. Those are the stakes for me, and for many, many AMABs. There is tremendous safety for me in passing as female. All of which is jeopardized by a narrative that wants to label me as trans instead of "just a woman". I'm just a woman, dammit!

 

I hate being trans. I really, truly do. I hate it so much I cry. I cried watching Chloe Arden cry about how much she hated it. And she's younger and a lot prettier than me. She'll be fine. But you know, I make the best of the situation. I deal with this issue myself the best I can. I try to find hobbies, and learn new skills, and do whatever is in my power to make the fact that I'm trans the least interesting thing about me.

 

I almost wish that trans support groups consisted of people just getting together for an activity. A museum trip, a hike, a cookie baking party. Because the last thing I want in a support group is to be reminded that I'm trans. Heck, maybe there shouldn't be trans support groups at all. Maybe we need cis support groups. I've never felt better and more normal than when I'm with a group of cis female friends who include me like I was one of them.

[ChillaKilla]

Hadley, even as an AFAB NB myself, you make a ton of excellent points (as usual) and we really do appreciate you putting your feelings out there because a lot of these issues DO need to be addressed. A lot of these communities like the ones you mentioned cater to a very specific image of LGBT-ness that is more "palatable" to the public eye (which is super gross, IMO), because gender nonconformity is much more tolerated in AFAB people than in AMABs. And it's 100% BS that people continue to feed into this narrative. Even I'm getting tired of being assumed to be like these people (I get called snowflake and transtrender so much because of the messy rainbow undercut crowd). It inevitably helps none of us as a whole, but it DOES negatively impact AMABs much worse, I 100%% agree.

1 minute ago, Hadley167 said:

I almost wish that trans support groups consisted of people just getting together for an activity. A museum trip, a hike, a cookie baking party. Because the last thing I want in a support group is to be reminded that I'm trans.

I would support the heck out of this. That would be really fun.

 

2 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

Do you know how many I found who said that guy-guy is ok but girl-girl is bad? Zero. I went up to 250 miles (including major metro areas like Boston and NYC) and still found zero. Consider that.

The only thing is I would DEFINITELY tie disparity to the fetishization of WLW. Everyone's seen a million straight guys who say "yeah, chicks making out is sexy, but if a guy hit on me I'd tell him to square up". Heard it multiple times this semester alone. 

[butterflydreams]

1 minute ago, ChillaKilla said:

The only thing is I would DEFINITELY tie disparity to the fetishization of WLW. Everyone's seen a million straight guys who say "yeah, chicks making out is sexy, but if a guy hit on me I'd tell him to square up". Heard it multiple times this semester alone. 

Oh, I 100% agree. That's definitely why it is. But I'm less concerned with why it shows up and more concerned about the result. Fetishization doesn't typically get you lynched...you know? Or put in a concentration camp...jfc Chechnya.

[ChillaKilla]

15 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

Oh, I 100% agree. That's definitely why it is. But I'm less concerned with why it shows up and more concerned about the result. Fetishization doesn't typically get you lynched...you know? Or put in a concentration camp...jfc Chechnya.

Yeah, but it can get you sexually assaulted and demeaned and objectified. But really, it's not a contest. And it shouldn't be. And the UN needs to address Chechnya.

[butterflydreams]

2 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

Yeah, but it can get you sexually assaulted and demeaned and objectified. But really, it's not a contest. And it shouldn't be. And the UN needs to address Chechnya.

Agreed. Same class of problems, different solutions required. Nothing wrong with that, and it's definitely not a contest.

 

It occurred to me just now that I don't 100% know of any gay men who are adult volunteers. Wouldn't surprise me if they largely get shut out. They can't help themselves molesting children/youth, don't you know?

 

Actually, I felt bad for volunteering. Great, yet another woman in this organization. Hopefully I'm bringing more than that to the table.

[kaysir]

4 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

I think it is an issue, and I don't see anyone talking about it. If I were younger, and trying to transition, and utilizing these services...I'd feel incredibly put off. I'd actually resent them, and I'd resent myself for being what I was. Oh wait...that actually happened to me. Between 2003 and 2007. I felt put off by them, and actually started arguing against gay marriage in my classes at the time.

 

It concerns the shit out of me that there is an enormous deficit of AMAB non-binary people. It should concern everyone. Because either it means that non binary is bullshit...or it means that there is a huge unsupported mass of AMAB non-binary people out there. Neither one of those things are good, so hopefully people would have some concern about this.

I'm certain there are tons of unsupported trans people who are AMAB. They don't have access to media containing or information about binary trans people let alone nonbinary ones, and when they do it's so extreme and/or stigmatized. With a lot of AFAB trans people, taking on masculine traits, passing as male, and transitioning in stealth can be much easier than it is for the average AMAB person.

 

Sadly not every AFAB person is actually recognized as the correct gender, but at least in the West they are allowed to behave more freely without facing as much judgment as someone AMAB who'd be doing the same thing, so they can live more comfortably with their bright hair and new age fashion and all that.

 

I'm not saying AFAB trans and gender-nonconforming people don't face the same dangers as AMAB people, but that there are some differences in how, how often, and why those dangers occur. For every AFAB tomboy, butch lesbian, or trans boy out in the open, how many AMAB non-sporty/manly guys, feminine gay men, and trans women do you see? When you see them, who is the one you'd expect to be laughed at or hurt before the other?

 

AFAB people often get to explore a bit more while having their genders denied like "She can have fun in her boy clothes, she's just a silly girl." AMAB people are more often met with backlash if they try to explore. AFAB people are infantilized and AMAB people are criminalized. I feel like it can take more time and more effort on average to learn to accept themselves and unlearn toxic masculinity and femininity than it might on the AFAB side.

[butterflydreams]

7 hours ago, kaysir said:

Sadly not every AFAB person is actually recognized as the correct gender, but at least in the West they are allowed to behave more freely without facing as much judgment as someone AMAB who'd be doing the same thing, so they can live more comfortably with their bright hair and new age fashion and all that.

Exactly. I'm certainly not suggesting that they don't face any issues, but the issues are very different. The big one I always think about is basically this. If I don't pass well, it could mean I face danger. If someone who is AFAB doesn't pass well, they can fall back on tomboy pretty easily. 

 

7 hours ago, kaysir said:

For every AFAB tomboy, butch lesbian, or trans boy out in the open, how many AMAB non-sporty/manly guys, feminine gay men, and trans women do you see? When you see them, who is the one you'd expect to be laughed at or hurt before the other?

Yes! This is where these organizations fail miserably in my opinion.

 

The idea isn't flushed out in my head yet, so keep that in mind for the following. One of the first things that upset me was finding out the organization had some "gender creative kids" program. What even is that? This isn't "creative" for me. And it wouldn't have been when I was a kid. Obviously everyone is different, but I feel like parents accepting a "cute" little girl who expresses differently than a little boy who wants to wear a skirt. But if the group was run by cis lesbians and genderqueer AFAB people...what would anyone expect? They're basing it off their own experiences.

 

I guess I wonder what I as one individual can do. 

[Was here]

-

[butterflydreams]

14 minutes ago, AnonAsker said:

Should I feel bad for being AFAB and questioning if I'm trans/NB? heh.. ^^;

 

Not trying to make you feel bad about posting this or anything, I just feel bad that there are so many of these trendy people out there that don't really take gender seriously and are just trying to feel/be special/different/unique. .. which I'm constantly accusing myself of. shrugs and sweats nervously.

No, you shouldn't feel bad.

 

I think doubt and self introspection is good though. Thinking about why you feel the way you do and being honest with yourself about it. I have a hard time with the mainstream trans community's denial that there are trendy people out there. Acknowledging that that does happen doesn't hurt us. Denying it makes us look disconnected and delusional though. I wouldn't suggest that those people who are doing it for trendy reasons are wrong, or shouldn't be doing what they're doing, but they are playing a dangerous game. Especially if they start to transition medically.

 

This is why I happily advocate for people not needing to medically transition to be trans. Because that protects both them and people like me. They are less likely to make irreversible changes to their bodies for the worse, and I'm more likely to be taken seriously when I say I need it. What happens if there is a wave of people in the future who regret transitioning because it wasn't for them? It's just going to make it harder for people like me to get the care we need. Plugging our ears to that possibility is naive.

 

And if you are a person more on the trendy side, please for the love of god, realize that your experience is different from mine. Substantially so. Please be more conscious of your voice in the narrative.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AnonAsker said:

Should I feel bad for being AFAB and questioning if I'm trans/NB? heh.. ^^;

 

Not trying to make you feel bad about posting this or anything, I just feel bad that there are so many of these trendy people out there that don't really take gender seriously and are just trying to feel/be special/different/unique. .. which I'm constantly accusing myself of. shrugs and sweats nervously.

In all fairness, the bolded part is what i think the issue, not everyone does this because they want to feel special or be different/unique, some really experience dysphoria or deal with other gender related issues. So i find the bolded part a bit iffy despite the fact i do understand where you come from so i'll just read it in that context.

 

 

[LuckofTheChuck]

 

2 hours ago, AnonAsker said:

Should I feel bad for being AFAB and questioning if I'm trans/NB? heh.. ^^;

 

Not trying to make you feel bad about posting this or anything, I just feel bad that there are so many of these trendy people out there that don't really take gender seriously and are just trying to feel/be special/different/unique. .. which I'm constantly accusing myself of. shrugs and sweats nervously.

I feel the same way too. There are so much AFAB trenders that sometimes, I even get scared that I'm just a trender. I do get dysphoria though being honest, which makes me NB.

What also makes it worse is that I want to have that Markiplier type of hair dyed green, but almost every trender does that too, so I feel bad wanting to have a specific hair style. (I have always wanted that type of hairstyle, even when I was young)

[kaysir]

3 hours ago, AnonAsker said:

Should I feel bad for being AFAB and questioning if I'm trans/NB? heh.. ^^;

 

Not trying to make you feel bad about posting this or anything, I just feel bad that there are so many of these trendy people out there that don't really take gender seriously and are just trying to feel/be special/different/unique. .. which I'm constantly accusing myself of. shrugs and sweats nervously.

 

1 hour ago, LuckofTheChuck said:

 

I feel the same way too. There are so much AFAB trenders that sometimes, I even get scared that I'm just a trender. I do get dysphoria though being honest, which makes me NB.

What also makes it worse is that I want to have that Markiplier type of hair dyed green, but almost every trender does that too, so I feel bad wanting to have a specific hair style. (I have always wanted that type of hairstyle, even when I was young)

You shouldn't feel guilty when it comes to how your presentation fits stereotypes. It's not our responsibility to change the things we happen to like. It's not our fault that people have trends or that we sometimes fit them. If going by NB is what feels right to you, you can do whatever you want to your body and your style. Things get popular and as long as we're not gate-keeping to the max or minimizing the struggles of others, it's fine. People have gone up in arms when women picked up bright hair dye. There are articles every week about how someone hates how "all women/men dress the same." If a lot of NB people dress alike, it's perfectly fine!

 

While we don't have to be super critical of ourselves, we do need to be aware of these stereotypes and perhaps the reasoning behind them. What is it about dyed hair that appeals to so many NB and gender-nonconforming people? Why to NB people tend to be dapper and punk? It has to do with how these styles were gendered and used in radical ways in the past. If that's what staying true to yourself looks like, keep at it.

 

We also have to remember that everyone is different. There are cis people who feel exactly the same way as some of us do, and there are binary trans people who feel the same way, too. There are NB people with horrible dysphoria, those who only have euphoria, and those who are just there. For some of us, transition stops at buying clothes from a different section of a store. For others, transition is millions of steps that can be costly monetarily and figuratively. Some of us don't care what pronouns and names people call us. Some can't bear to hear the wrong words. It's all ok, and we all need to know about these differences.

[Was here]

Edited all of this out, because my posts where stupid and worded terribly.

[Arvid of Rivendell]

I don't have much to add, but... People need to realize that there's not one way to be trans. That sentiment has been beaten to death, but it's worth repeating. Not all trans people are cool, trendy activists who are open about their gender and are always ready to answer all your questions. Not all trans people are thin and white and perfectly transitioned. Not all trans people are gender-benders whose motto is "f*ck gender roles" (and it sure as hell isn't safe for AMAB people). And, obviously, not all trans people have the same experience. 

 

Your rant was a good read. This is an important issue. I'm ashamed to say it, but I hadn't really thought about the AMAB side of things. If you choose to volunteer at this organization (and if you are comfy with speaking up), I think you could be an important voice, or at least a good role model, for any AMAB people that might be there.

[Was here]

I really shouldn't have posted on this, my wording was terrible,and my opinions and thoughts on things change constantly tbh.

 

Replying to this and wording things badly just set off my anxiety of posting anything.

[butterflydreams]

2 hours ago, AnonAsker said:

I really shouldn't have posted on this, my wording was terrible,and my opinions and thoughts on things change constantly tbh.

 

Replying to this and wording things badly just set off my anxiety of posting anything.

No no, I don't think anyone was upset. This is a difficult topic. I thank you tremendously for your contribution. It's ok to make missteps in what you say. I didn't interpret it as malicious or mean or bad. I don't think anyone else did either. *hugs*

 

3 hours ago, Arvid of Rivendell said:

Not all trans people are gender-benders whose motto is "f*ck gender roles" (and it sure as hell isn't safe for AMAB people).

I almost walked straight out of the one trans support group I've ever gone to because some person was saying these things. 

 

3 hours ago, Arvid of Rivendell said:

Your rant was a good read. This is an important issue. I'm ashamed to say it, but I hadn't really thought about the AMAB side of things. If you choose to volunteer at this organization (and if you are comfy with speaking up), I think you could be an important voice, or at least a good role model, for any AMAB people that might be there.

Thanks. I appreciate it. Even here on AVEN, I know that as an AMAB trans person, my voice is pretty small, but I try my best to raise the flag about these issues. When I was talking to my friend about it, she said, "wow, you really are pretty frustrated about this." So far, I am continuing to be a volunteer. We'll see how things go tomorrow. My whole impetus for volunteering in the first place was that I felt I could be what a 15 year old closeted Hadley would've needed to see. A healthy, normal-ass trans adult with a decent, normal job, lots of hobbies and just living a normal life. 15 year old Hadley would've reeled from some trendy-looking well-off cis lesbian with colored hair telling her what it was like to be an LGBT adult. And again...that basically did happen to me.

 

So I thought that maybe I could show up, and just be me, and hope that there would be any youth there to pick up on it. 15 year old me would've wanted desperately to know that being trans didn't mean you had to get a specific kind of activist job. She would've wanted to know that your life wouldn't revolve around this thing, and mostly, that she could be her genuine self.

 

It's hard to raise the issues though. When I had my training, I raised the issue that almost by definition, this youth group thing helps those who need it least the most.

 

I know I'm going to find it frustrating to keep being involved in this. I hope that just sticking it out will be enough. Just keep showing up, Hadley. Keep being the example of that regular, normal person.

[Was here]

I'm sorry, I just always get that way, heh.. ;u;

 

If I say something I think is mean after I say it or feel like people misinterpreted it, I feel like I should just shut up and not say anything. I meant I felt like I shouldn't say anything on this website anymore, not just this topic.

 

Hhhhhhh, I'm so dramatic.

[Dodecahedron314]

I'm one of those AFAB NBs, and I agree that this is a huge issue. I know a couple of AMAB nonbinary people IRL (yes, they do exist), and I can't imagine what they have to go through with all this--it's hard enough being nonbinary in the first place for any number of reasons, but there seem to be far more resources out there for AFABs than AMABs. AFABs are given far more freedom to go against society's designated roles for them because people have arguably come a bit farther in realizing how restrictive traditional feminine expectations can be than they have with traditional masculine expectations (which I suspect is why cis lesbian feminists often have the predominant point of view in these sorts of spaces, as well as the academic discourse on gender and sexuality studies), whereas AMABs are often treated as a punchline at worst or "just being progressive" at best.

 

Unfortunately, I have no idea how this could be fixed. We desperately need more AMAB voices, but how are we supposed to hear them when we haven't figured out how to give them a space where they won't feel like the odd ones out?

[butterflydreams]

1 hour ago, Dodecahedron314 said:

Unfortunately, I have no idea how this could be fixed. We desperately need more AMAB voices, but how are we supposed to hear them when we haven't figured out how to give them a space where they won't feel like the odd ones out?

I'm working on it.

 

I just got back from being a adult facilitator at a queer youth summit thing. I was in charge to two 1 hour sessions for transfeminine youth. There were over 150 youth at this event. In the first session, we had 2. Those two just stayed for the second session where we added...just two more. And then the stories that people were sharing? It was depressing as fuck. I just fired off an email to one of the directors saying how depressing it was, and if I were a transfeminine youth at this thing, I would've felt like there was no hope, and I was all alone. To go from a big group of all these happy youths to this empty quiet room?

 

I caught up with the guy who was running the trans masculine groups...he said in each session he had around 25 youth. And I saw people pouring out of the NB session when I left.

 

Depressing. As. Fuck.  If I were a transfeminine youth and saw that, I feel like, "fuck it, this is clearly not a sustainable life path."

 

You know what would be awesome, and that I'd happily volunteer for? A day for a youth to shadow a trans adult at work. I would happily do that. I'd do it multiple times. Because that's what I would've needed to see if I were a youth. I would've needed to see that trans adults can do just fine. They can be respected at work. They can lead a normal-ass life. It's too late for me to see that as a youth. I had to create it myself by getting to the point where it was do or die. But now that I have created it, I want to show it to people who are younger, so that they don't have to get to that do or die place. Because 'die' can happen just as easily as 'do'  

[Calligraphette_Coe]

::::cloaking device deactivated, shields up::::::::

 

It's like an old ad from an aeronautical engineer's magazine I used to read:

 

Quote

Stealth technology. Because if they can't see you, they can't hit you.

I take big risks every time I post here, because if I get clocked, I'm out of a job. And then to take the risk and be rewarded by being invalidated and misgendered in the worst possible way in a place that used to be known for being safe space? Congratulations to the responsible parties-- you scored a direct hit to my PTSD.  I can't even begin to explain how bad it hurt and why, I just know I'm not coming back for more. It took about a month to even think about this space, and I have to say... it feels like it's been irreparably damaged for me. Just like the other ones for years and years. Since I can't transition, there is no support and no place for me to hide except to stay in the shadows. At least nobody can tell me I'm not *really* asexual and get away with it. But anything past that? Seems all bets are off.

 

To make things even worse, a few weeks ago one of the people who understood my dilemma that most and was very supportive passed away suddenly.  I couldn't even go to her funeral because it was a thousand miles away.

 

I resisted deleting my account. Well, you just never know, I guess. Sometimes things heal, sometimes the winter turns to spring. I mostly stopped by to let some of you know who have been having trouble getting your parents to understand that maybe you should read some of the work done by Dr. Randi Ettner. And Lisette Lightenberg, who did a study of trans people who had autopsies done on their brains post mortem and were found to have divergences in certain areas. These are scientists without agendas trying to shed light on peoples' predicaments. There was one particularly profound quote from the author of the book that mentions their studies.

 

Quote

This needs further study, but such evidence may become part of the case people make for changing gender; objective brain differences could support what they so strongly feel. .....We should have,  I strongly believe, the freedom to choose what we want, BUT that doesn't mean we have freely chosen to want it, or that we can wish it away because others want us to fit society's mold. 

Amen. 

 

:::::::reactivating cloaking device:::::::::

[deltaX]

As a cis person, I found this thread to be a really interesting read.  From someone who didnt know a whole lot about the trans community before lurking here, I completely agree that having only one type of trans voice is incredibly harmful.  I never knew there were trans people like you Hadley until I actually met you, and had all kinds of awful misconceptions about how trans people are that don't apply to everyone.

 

I think showing a variety of trans voices is important because it shows that trans people are just ordinary people with ordinary human variation.  I think the main reason I was do hestiant to accept trans people when I was younger was because I saw them as one homogenous blob that didn't seem real.  When you see trans people as a group of real people with a variety of experiences and views, it becomes impossible for me to not support you guys, and I think trans acceptance would be higher if people were more aware of people like you. I don't know if there is an easy solution, but I hope on day the problem is solved.  Your voice is important, and it sucks that people like you arent represented.

[Kimmie.]

I can completely understand you about those meetups. Should they not be a place there kids can come and just forget about the world atleast just for a moment?. And not sitting there and hear all the other Kids stories. I know it is can be good to talk about your experiences with other people to. But as you sade if the group just could do some activities and just have fun. That would probably help with there view on life and the future.

 

And what i have read here just proves even more why i look up to you.

 

 

[AwkwardAxolotl]

13 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

I just got back from being a adult facilitator at a queer youth summit thing. I was in charge to two 1 hour sessions for transfeminine youth. There were over 150 youth at this event. In the first session, we had 2. Those two just stayed for the second session where we added...just two more. And then the stories that people were sharing? It was depressing as fuck. I just fired off an email to one of the directors saying how depressing it was, and if I were a transfeminine youth at this thing, I would've felt like there was no hope, and I was all alone. To go from a big group of all these happy youths to this empty quiet room?

 

I caught up with the guy who was running the trans masculine groups...he said in each session he had around 25 youth. And I saw people pouring out of the NB session when I left.

 

Depressing. As. Fuck.  If I were a transfeminine youth and saw that, I feel like, "fuck it, this is clearly not a sustainable life path."

 

It is incredibly sad that your experience is not uncommon. I've been working with a group for LGBT+ youth for 6 years, and the first year, when we had our big once-a-year three-day event, the transfeminine and transmasculine support groups got lumped together, because there "weren't enough transfeminine people to warrant their own group," even though there were more transfeminine people at the support group than there were aces at the ace support group. The next year we did get the two groups each their own room for a support group, but that first year, listening to the stories that the transfeminine kids were telling just about broke me. Being AFAB and trans* is plenty dangerous, but it's still, in general, easier and safer than it is for them. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever met a braver group than the transfeminine people I've met at Rainbow Ball. They don't get to be happy nearly enough, and the support groups in general tend to be kind of depressing, but at least they have the rest of the weekend for fun. There is a dance on the last day, and the kids just light up. They can wear whatever they want, take whoever they want to the dance, and just enjoy it, without having to worry about if they're going to be safe. That's the way they should be able to feel all the time, but unfortunately we, as a society aren't there yet.

[butterflydreams]

41 minutes ago, AwkwardAxolotl said:

The next year we did get the two groups each their own room for a support group, but that first year, listening to the stories that the transfeminine kids were telling just about broke me.

Yeah, even though there were only 4 of them (plus me) their stories were all the same. Brutal and heartbreaking. A lot of parental disownment kind of stuff. Had I talked about myself, my story would've been the same. I know this kind of negativity and sadness is there. I know firsthand what it's like. I don't know what hurt me more, the 5 of us dejectedly walking out of the room quietly when it was over, or passing by the NB room as it was emptying out with dozens of laughing, smiling people. 

 

45 minutes ago, AwkwardAxolotl said:

Honestly, I don't know if I've ever met a braver group than the transfeminine people I've met at Rainbow Ball. They don't get to be happy nearly enough, and the support groups in general tend to be kind of depressing, but at least they have the rest of the weekend for fun. There is a dance on the last day, and the kids just light up. They can wear whatever they want, take whoever they want to the dance, and just enjoy it, without having to worry about if they're going to be safe. That's the way they should be able to feel all the time, but unfortunately we, as a society aren't there yet.

Agreed. I wish I could see them all lit up like that. They deserve it so badly. This thing I was at was part of a broader event. Some of them were talking about the dance that was supposed to happen later. Talking about some fun outfits they had. That was the only time in the whole two hours that any of them seemed genuinely positive and happy.

 

I hope I wasn't out of line emailing one of the organization directors my feelings about it. I really want to be able to help more.

[Ashes Floating]

Thanks for the wake-up call. I looked back through my posts on hee, and realized that, yeah, I have kind of pulled conversations off track before, but I didn't realize it (I'm AFAB NB). I want to publish my own story, but I don't think that I should take superiority over anyone else who does (provided that they aren't puslishing the same story that's been told a thousand times). Again, thanks for the heads up,

 

Recently-decided-to-go-by-Dakota-for-a-week,

 

Dakota.