Pramana Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Do you have to try sex to know if you’re asexual? Some people answer this question in the affirmative, contrary to what has been generally accepted in the asexual community. There is evidence that a majority of women and a minority of men primarily experience responsive sexual desire. This means that they first have to engage in sexual activities leading to sexual arousal, before they experience an intrinsic desire for partnered sex. Following currently accepted academic conventions, psychologists writing on responsive desire theory assume that orientation is defined by sexual attraction, rather than sexual desire. Therefore, they think that asexual people can know that they don’t want partnered sex in a manner analogous to how a heterosexual man doesn’t first have to experiment sexually with another man in order to know that he doesn’t want homosexual sex. However, some people don’t believe in sexual attraction, or don’t believe that it is relevant to determine sexual orientation. According to this interpretation of responsive desire theory, any asexual person who hasn’t experimented sexually could actually be a normal sexual person who has yet to discover their sexuality through the responsive desire mechanism. And following this interpretation, some people may recommend that others should first engage in certain forms of sexual experimentation, before they can properly identify as asexual. I’m wondering about the implications of giving this type of advice to new members, especially when those members indicate that they find the thought of sexual activity to be off-putting or upsetting? One of the problems asexuals face is that of being pressured into unwanted sexual contact, sometimes through claims that it will cure them. Might this type of advice contribute to that problem? I’m curious regarding what other people think? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ItWasNiceKnowingYou Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 For f*cks sake (no pun intended) Sexual attraction is a thing. And no you don't have to try sex to know if you're asexual. 12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Korengi Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The common words that indicate that the people speculating are merely doing just that: could, may. As soon as I saw those words, I knew they didn't have a leg to stand on. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Ham Radio Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Just like how a straight person doesn't need to try gay sex to know they aren't gay, an asexual does not need to try sex to know it doesn't interest them. 16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayDee1212 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I think this is a complicated question, much more complicated for women for the same reasons you mentioned above. Unless you are a sex-repulsed asexual, than I don't think it's a terrible idea to try it once (with the right person in the right circumstances of course!) and see what happens. As for me, I had no clue I was on the asexual spectrum until I had sex. For me it was important to try it, because I have always had physical/aesthetic crushes on men and before trying actual sex I just assumed I was heterosexual. But again, I was only sex-indifferent. I never felt pressured, and was actually vaguely curious about it. That is a HUGE difference from pressuring someone who is upset by sexual stimulus to go try it because "they should". If someone is truly curious I say go for it. I would even be interested to try again to see exactly where I fall on the spectrum, as I haven't ruled out demisexuality or graysexuality yet. If I found a great loving partnership with a sexual person whom I found attractive and was emotionally/romantically attracted to, I think I would actually want to try again. I don't think doing it out of curiosity is a bad thing if you are indifferent to sex and are seriously interested in exploring your sexuality. But if even the thought of having sex makes you feel upset, uncomfortable or sick...that should be all the proof you need I think! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheLittleRabbit Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I don't understand the whole "really asexual" thing, as, like you said, heterosexuals don't have to prove that they're "really heterosexuals". I think it is much more dangerous to give people with the "rape them for their own good" mentality "evidence" that what they're doing is okay than the alternative where a heterosexual never tries sex and identifies as an asexual their whole life. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvastor Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 You don't have to have sex to know. And why would you go through the hassle if you (for example) are repulsed by it? Why would someone eat raisins, mushrooms or whatever if they just hate the taste or if they are already repulsed by the smell of this food? Or why would someone drink beer if they can't stand its taste and smell? With food, you find out at the latest when you've tried it, but often the smell can be taken as a sign. With sexuality, things can be more obvious despite that sexuality itself can be a confusing topic for people. Maybe a better analogy would be dealing with someone you hate with every fiber of your heart. (For the majority of humans) If there's a good chance they can't stand someone from the very beginning without ever having had some sort of direct interaction with them, why would they have to force themselves to endure their presence? The problem I see with this reasoning: If you try sex and (still) don't like it, people will just keep telling you "well, then try more, because apparently, this was not your kind of sex.", then they would have to do that again only to find out the same and repeat. As you can see it's pointless and creates a loop. I like the comparison to (purely) heterosexual people not wanting sex with someone of their sex because of this reason. I doubt a purely heterosexual person would enjoy that, no matter how they do it. Sometimes I'm not all too good at getting my point across, but I hope I've been somewhat clear with what I've been trying to get at here. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TopHatCat Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Given that psychology can only gather data based on peoples' interpretations and thoughts, it's inherently difficult to try and make clear determinations about this kind of thing. But because we can only gather thoughts, it's the thoughts that we use as the standard in explaining the difference between the way people think most of the time. Most people that come here start out so unsure about themselves, they've just questioned a part of who they are, that I don't think they have enough stability to consider this without some degree of depression. The way we define it now is reasonable and consistent with how this kind of thing is academically approached, so I don't think this is necessary to bring up. Besides, with something as intimate as sex I think it's immoral to expect someone to find a person (or have a partner that expects physical intimacy) and force themselves to have sex with them (because what other alternative would there be?). 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 If someone has no desire to even try sex then I'd count that as 'ace enough'. 10 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoLongerActive1234 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The majority of people know beforehand so I don't think it should be a standard advice to say you can only know after trying sex...it's a nutty idea and would create a lot of misery. It should be mentioned instead as a factor to consider if people are unaware of it being possible. It is not so difficult imo because general rule of thumb is to NOT do something you have no desire to try. Even if a person would fall into the responsive sex category, or how to say, it does not matter because you'd be doing the best thing for yourself by sticking true to how you feel here and now. I don't believe in pushing oneself to do these things, if someone gets to a point of feeling that they want to try or being indifferent then I mean they would go from there and come to a conclusion. If someone wants to try then by all means go ahead. I would encourage people to do what they want and never to do something that they feel uncomfortable with just because they think they should for some reason. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mimesis Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 As a sexual person, I don`t need to try having sex with somebody to know I`m not attracted to that person. In fact, it would be disgusting! As people have pointed out, it is the same as saying heterosexual people have to engage in homosexuality to be sure of their taste. If this were real, I`d prefer to never try and live on believing I`m a heterosexual. But if an ace feels curious enough about sex, ok, go on. As long as you and your partner are ok with it and feeling comfortable. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Homer Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 No. Just no. Of course there is a margin for error and one could be wrong about one's assumption, but this is becoming increasingly unlikely as you grow older and learn more about yourself. Yet if you don't miss anything (or if you aren't really curious), why force anything? 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sculapius Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I don't have to try dunking my face into a pot of boiling water to know it will hurt and I won't like it, so the answer is no. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laplace Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether someone has tried it or not, but I won't discourage someone curious about it from trying it (in a safe environment with someone they were willing to try it with obviously). "Experience" is certainly not required to be ace, but if you want to try it, it's a choice you can make for yourself. The main thing is not to go into it with the "I'm gonna prove I'm completely asexual" mindset cause I feel like that'd be the wrong reason to have sex. And, ultimately, it's not necessarily a bad thing if someone decides they weren't as asexual as they originally thought after trying it. There's no reason to feel guilty about finding yourself 🙂. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janus the Fox Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Sex itself isn't required to know who you are, anyone curious enough about sex can often but not always confirm your identity in some confused about it. Often though doing the acts from anyone isn't enough until there's a stronger relationship, or a romance first. Never try it until feeling ready to try it for your own personal reasons, not the reasons of society. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Starfall Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The argument that one must try having sex in order to know whether or not one experiences sexual desire, is rooted in cultural perceptions that everyone must be sexual and must love having sex. No one would bother making this argument otherwise. If our culture didn't believe that sex is the most important part of a happy life, it wouldn't matter whether or not a person just thought they were asexual because they hadn't tried sex, and consequently hadn't realized that they only experience responsive sexual desire, because no one would care whether or not other people lived their entire lives without trying sex. My point here is: So what? So what if we're all wrong and we all just need to 'try it' to realize that we actually do experience sexual desire? There's still no reason why we can't live perfectly happy lives without ever trying sex. And even if we are 'wrong', it isn't going to hurt us or anyone else if we consider ourselves asexual, regardless of whether or not we have conclusively proved that we don't experience responsive desire. Besides which, no other sexual orientation is required to 'conclusively prove' that they are a certain way, so why should we? I would also argue that people who only experience responsive desire, probably mostly still have some general desire to have sex at some point, as opposed to asexuals, who tend to range from neutral, to decidedly opposed to having sex. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pramana Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 5 hours ago, SimplyAce said: For f*cks sake (no pun intended) Sexual attraction is a thing. And no you don't have to try sex to know if you're asexual. The first response in this thread is my favourite one, but thanks to everyone for their input. I'm in agreement with the views expressed. And I'm pretty sure that responsive sexual desire theory doesn't affect how people identify as asexual, because psychology and evolutionary biology suggest that sexual attraction informs sexual orientation. In this case, the science correlates with the ethically preferred result. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
straightouttamordor Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 No, not so ever. Nobody knows you like you know you. No or little interest is sex may not be common but its more than okay. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Do you have to eat shit out of the toilet to know it's not something you wanna do? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sir octepus tea Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 thing is, anyone regardless of sexual orientation can be repulsed or just not very interested in sx. it´s a shitty thing to tell anyone, regardless of orientation that they have to try it. your sexual orientation is the answer to the question "which gender(s) are you sexually attracted to?", and in the case of asexuality it´s none. nowhere does it say there´s an inherent like or dislike of it. so please stop asking invasive questions if you meet an asexual in public. we have the same right to privacy as anyone else. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrDane Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 18 hours ago, Pramana said: Do you have to try sex to know if you’re asexual? Some people answer this question in the affirmative, contrary to what has been generally accepted in the asexual community. There is evidence that a majority of women and a minority of men primarily experience responsive sexual desire. This means that they first have to engage in sexual activities leading to sexual arousal, before they experience an intrinsic desire for partnered sex. Following currently accepted academic conventions, psychologists writing on responsive desire theory assume that orientation is defined by sexual attraction, rather than sexual desire. Therefore, they think that asexual people can know that they don’t want partnered sex in a manner analogous to how a heterosexual man doesn’t first have to experiment sexually with another man in order to know that he doesn’t want homosexual sex. However, some people don’t believe in sexual attraction, or don’t believe that it is relevant to determine sexual orientation. According to this interpretation of responsive desire theory, any asexual person who hasn’t experimented sexually could actually be a normal sexual person who has yet to discover their sexuality through the responsive desire mechanism. And following this interpretation, some people may recommend that others should first engage in certain forms of sexual experimentation, before they can properly identify as asexual. I’m wondering about the implications of giving this type of advice to new members, especially when those members indicate that they find the thought of sexual activity to be off-putting or upsetting? One of the problems asexuals face is that of being pressured into unwanted sexual contact, sometimes through claims that it will cure them. Might this type of advice contribute to that problem? I’m curious regarding what other people think? A couple of things! If you dont want to have sex, then dont but... many sexual people are scared and feeling awkward and perhaps even disgust about the idea of sex, before they have tried under the rigth circumstances. The responsive desire is a thing and needs to be stimulated before it is activated. Meaning: have sex, then want the sex to continue. Next time, same deal! Saying ""no , i am not willling to try anything, ever and not even with babysteps. I ddont care if this could turn out as a nice activity for both of us. Stay away and dont touch me!" could easily be limiting your dating pool. I do not want to cure asexuals and I feel a bit upset by having my normal (99%) idea about what is nice and a language of love compared to forcing people to taste shit. i believe, that you have to do something to find out where your borders are. And if you get uncomfortable with his hand in yours then dont go ahead with the full piv-intercourse. But...'This is nice, let us try that again' , 'I do not feel comfortable with this now, perhaps an other day or 'uhm no, please.I dont like' ' There is a difference between violating borders and taking babysteps of intimacy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Philip027 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Quote I do not want to cure asexuals and I feel a bit upset by having my normal (99%) idea about what is nice and a language of love compared to forcing people to taste shit. Oh relax, it's not a "comparison" It's just an exaggerated way of making the point of "enjoyment =/= desire" 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Deus Ex Infinity Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I don't know if you have to TRY anything at all. As for myself I used to had sex in the past and it was OK for most of the time but I never felt the impact or desire to get started in the first place. I wouldn't force or push myself into something once again now since I know that I'm not into it atm but that 's a process everyone has to deal with on his or her own. If it doesn't feel right to you - don't do it! No matter what other people say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mermaidy Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I "tried" sex before I looked into asexuality and ended up not wanting it but was too afraid to tell the other person to stop. considering I always thought Id never be the kind of person who'd be afraid of that, I don't recommend people trying out sex when they already feel pretty much nothing like I did. I was also 19 at the time which is pretty late 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snao Cone Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Trying sex doesn't invalidate your asexuality either, even if you try it multiple times, whether in a relationship or not. I have had sex before and probably will again, on a half-hearted whim because having sex is supposed to be a wild and exciting thing to do, but underneath it all I know I will be unimpressed with it. None of my needs are being unmet by not having sex. People who experience responsive desire may still have needs being unmet without the push to do so coming up on its own. Is it okay for me to tell young questioning aces "If you ever feel inclined to experience sexual intimacy, don't let what you currently identify as stop you from pursuing it"? Is that the same as saying "You don't know unless you try"? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Member4445 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Sex is fun, I enjoy it. Having sex (and enjoying it), does not make somebody sexual, in the same way that not enjoying sex can with make somebody Asexual. Sex repulsed sexuals exist, so do sex favourable Asexuals. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pramana Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 50 minutes ago, MrDane said: A couple of things! If you dont want to have sex, then dont but... many sexual people are scared and feeling awkward and perhaps even disgust about the idea of sex, before they have tried under the rigth circumstances. The responsive desire is a thing and needs to be stimulated before it is activated. Meaning: have sex, then want the sex to continue. Next time, same deal! Saying ""no , i am not willling to try anything, ever and not even with babysteps. I ddont care if this could turn out as a nice activity for both of us. Stay away and dont touch me!" could easily be limiting your dating pool. I do not want to cure asexuals and I feel a bit upset by having my normal (99%) idea about what is nice and a language of love compared to forcing people to taste shit. i believe, that you have to do something to find out where your borders are. And if you get uncomfortable with his hand in yours then dont go ahead with the full piv-intercourse. But...'This is nice, let us try that again' , 'I do not feel comfortable with this now, perhaps an other day or 'uhm no, please.I dont like' ' There is a difference between violating borders and taking babysteps of intimacy. It's important to keep in mind that when researchers say that a majority of women and a minority of men primarily experience responsive sexual desire, the word "primarily" should not be misconstrued to mean "only". From the research I've seen, at least, the assumption seems to be that most sexual people experience both spontaneous and responsive desire, especially when they are younger or in a new relationship. I haven't seen any research on people who only ever experience responsive desire, and the inference I would make from the evidence I've seen to date is that if you've never experienced spontaneous desire, then you probably don't experience responsive desire. Besides that, there's the important role played by sexual attraction for determining sexual orientation, so I'd reiterate my initial point about how a heterosexual man isn't likely to turn out to be bisexual through responsive sexual desire. And asking a heterosexual man to experiment sexually with another man to find out is, if anything, most likely to cause psychological distress. Now asexuals may want to try sex for any number of reasons. And there's the subcategory of sex-favourable asexuals. I have a problem, though, with sexuals telling asexuals that they should try sexual things under the conceit that they might like it due to responsive desire, when the science doesn't support that interpretation. True, the fact that asexuals are a small minority poses challenges, but people should never be expected to change simply because they are in a minority. Asexuals shouldn't be expected to learn to like sex any more than sexuals should be expected to learn to dislike sex. I doubt that any of the psychologists researching responsive sexual desire would be impressed to see their theory used to reenforce compulsory sexuality. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SithAzathoth WinterDragon Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 No. You do not "need" to try sex to know if you're asexual, the "need" part is a society expectation and it's not right to force the "need" of sex on everyone. Overall sex is not a "need" but a want. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Member116379 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 If you don't want to do it, you don't want to do it. Simple 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shadesogrey Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 For me, trying things in small steps over the past 20 years has been useful and helpful, though at times also difficult and upsetting. For me, just because I don't want to fuck doesn't mean I want to be alone or don't value intimacy. Also, in a relationship with a sexual person, there is value in doing what works for the other person, and compromising on our desires to some extent. I think that in all areas of life, there is a lot of learning to be done when we go outside our comfort zone. As a mostly hetero-aligned cis-man I would probably even try PIV sex once if that were possible. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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