Taylore Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 In my experience, and just by observation, too many people think that asexuality, and consequentially some grey deviations, are gender identities. Perhaps the structure of the word "asexual" leads to such logic. Asexuality, in biology, describes a species' sexual makeup and its ability to reproduce without a partner, so it is fair to think so. I honestly prefer to admit to romantic interests that I either have no sex drive or am "non-sexual", rather than identifying as demisexual (which specifically gets a lot of shit). Just saying, there's a lot of unnecessary hate sent my way by anti-trans. Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
AVEN #1 fan Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Well yeah people usually mistake "sexless", "genderless/agender", "aromantic" and "asexual" all together. The difference btw Asexual and sexual reproduction in biology is something that gets a lot of people lost in biology lol. I usually say I don't like to have sex with anything and people are OK with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Asexual was used for a long time to describe genderless-seeming people. Like women with short hair and small breasts who wore men's clothes were sometimes described as asexual in the past, meaning "androgenous". 32 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said: I usually say I don't like to have sex with anything and people are OK with it. This is generally the best way to explain that you're asexual. Instead of saying "I'm asexual" or mentioning sex drive (because people often assume low sex drive means you must have hormone issues) it's easier to explain that you're just not interested in patnered sexual contact. "I have no innate desire to connect sexually with others for pleasure" would be a good way to explain it, or something along those lines. The term asexual (to describe a sexual orientation) is also extremely misunderstood by many in the asexual community who then go around explain to others what asexual means. There are many who say asexuals can love having sex just as much as anyone else, they just don't "look at people and get horny". This is pretty offensive to sexual people because not all sexual people look at people and get horny, but some in the ace community assume that what makes someone sexual is that they have a lusty genital response to attractive people. Obviously, there is a lot more to sexuality than that and I find that idea that sexuals are just horny drooling beasts really offensive. I personally couldn't define myself as asexual even if I still thought I was asexual, due to how concerned I would be that anyone I told would think I mean "I love sex, I just dont care who I have it with" ... There is a pretty big push from some people in the ace community to define asexuality like that, and I just find that.. really awkward and understandably causes people to laugh at the label and not take it seriously at all. So I just say I'm a sexual person who really doesn't care much about sex and I don't care if I never have it again. I'd rather just explain that than try and hunt out a label that many people will misinterpret. Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 19 minutes ago, Pan. said: Asexual was used for a long time to describe genderless-seeming people. Like women with short hair and small breasts who wore men's clothes were sometimes described as asexual in the past, meaning "androgenous". They were more often called lesbians. Link to post Share on other sites
Anthracite_Impreza Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Most people don't have a clue about sexualities and genders, it's not just aces >.< Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 8 hours ago, Sally said: They were more often called lesbians No, they were more often called androgenous and it would be *extremely* rare for a woman like that to be called a lesbian, whether she was gay or not. That word wasn't really a "thing" back when I'm talking about (like 1890's to 1940's). Obviously there were lesbians, but that word certainly wasn't used to describe them commonly until the 60's when feminism popularised the term. Prior to that, women who "loved other women" were more commonly called shapphic (something along those lines) after the poet, BUT it was more common for women to hide their homosexuality in those days because that could get them thrown in an asylum or lobotomised (that happened a lot). However some women did still wear men's clothing and have short hair (regardless of whether or not they were a lesbian, openly or not) and in many texts from the time and fictional books and things, women like that would be described as "Asexual" (meaning androgenous-appearance). Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbitter Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Sometimes even my autocorrect doesn't know that there is something called 'asexuality'. Link to post Share on other sites
TheLittleRabbit Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 On 5/3/2017 at 1:15 AM, Taylore said: In my experience, and just by observation, too many people think that asexuality, and consequentially some grey deviations, are gender identities. Perhaps the structure of the word "asexual" leads to such logic. Asexuality, in biology, describes a species' sexual makeup and its ability to reproduce without a partner, so it is fair to think so. I honestly prefer to admit to romantic interests that I either have no sex drive or am "non-sexual", rather than identifying as demisexual (which specifically gets a lot of shit). Just saying, there's a lot of unnecessary hate sent my way by anti-trans. Thoughts? I've gotten hated on by just about every group besides trans for being asexual at some point now, so I personally don't worry about "accidentally" getting hated on by transphobic people, as I'm more angry about the fact they said something against trans people in general. People that are filled with that much hate towards something they don't understand and aren't willing to understand, both in the case of trans people and your asexuality, are usually better avoided. You will "get a lot of shit" with any identity you choose from people who have it in their heads that only their identity is right and try to force everyone else to match them. I think it's part of a vicious cycle that really no one is safe from these days. Even among heterosexuals, people get told that they need to have sex with more people, have sex with less people, have sex with different types of people, wear certain clothes while having sex-- There are literally people who can be judgmental about every tiny little thing. I once got told by a woman that my entire womanhood was made null because she got close enough to notice that I had 2 fine, lightly colored chin hairs, and did not run to go tweeze them asap when she alerted me. To this day, she's undecided on whether I'm a trans man and/or I'm in desperate need of "saving" from myself. So really, the best course of action is to do your best to avoid the judgy types, or at least not include them in your inner circle. People who are truly open minded won't jump to assumptions like "ace = genderflux," or if they do, will at least be willing to *listen* to you when you try to set them straight on the matter. Lots of times, even people who had a vague understanding of asexuality, when I came out to them, asked, "So what does that mean *to you*?" because reasonable folks understand that you can't automatically determine who a person is from just one label. Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 the power of language may be a yoke, but it is also a whip. we can't use one unless we wear the other. is the hate you are getting unnecessary because it doesn't apply to you or because it doesn't deservedly apply to anyone? Link to post Share on other sites
Taylore Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 5 hours ago, gisiebob said: is the hate you are getting unnecessary because it doesn't apply to you or because it doesn't deservedly apply to anyone? This bothers me because it doesn't apply to everyone. It bothers me that asexuality describes your level of sexual desire and nothing else. Aces are clumped into a category with anyone who identifies as a different gender or likes different sex... as sex, no matter how it is done, will be stigmatized for a long, long time yet. I do not feel bad that I specifically was targeted, but that others may experience this because offenders lack knowledge (I'm sure this is frequent discussion around here). I was writing a paper about symbolic anthropology, and it covered a tidbit about how our psychological responses to words (etc.) are influenced by cultural, societal conditioning. Furthermore, I wrote this topic because I was tipped over the edge when I tried to enlighten a handful of opinionated people over the internet (good idea, right?). I came across a picture describing asexuality and demisexuality; it was plastered with negative, blatantly wrong comments. They completely ignored my factual, articulated response and further comments snowballed into a hate-fueled discussion without me. Of course I could just... stay away... maybe what I'm actually saying is that I'm overwhelmed with the flavor of the internet, or the human condition... I just can't be the one to catalyze change for us. The supporters behind AVEN and the like have made significant social progress and have successfully established a community. Considering aces are clearly a minority, I am extremely grateful. Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I think the problem is that asexuals either want to be part of the LGBT+ community or they don't. LGBT+ is a coalition of minority sexual orientations and gender identities who have chosen to stand together for mutual support. When you get attacked for being asexual or gray sexual, would you like the LGBT+ community to back you up? Would you like the much more established LGBT+ community to signal boost for the fledgling asexual community? Great, that can probably be arranged. But the flip side of that is that you will need to stand up for the other members of the coalition. If you get mistakenly trans bashed the solution is not to make up a new label to disassociate yourself from the trans community so the flak can continue to fall on them. The solution is to learn from this experience how serious a problem transphobia is and take a stand against transphobia. If you are part of a community you have to be part of it all the time, for better or worse, not just when it's convenient for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Taylore Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, nanogretchen4 said: The solution is to learn from this experience how serious a problem transphobia is and take a stand against transphobia. If you are part of a community you have to be part of it all the time, for better or worse, not just when it's convenient for you. I disagree. I will choose my battles, and transgenderism has absolutely no pertinence to me. I'm not looking for or expecting anyone to back me up if I'm cornered, I'm simply pointing out a curious phenomenon. You are aggrandizing an individual's role in a given sex-oriented "community". LGBT is just another ideological community, and I keep my opinions out of it just like any other. What, is it like paying taxes to attempt to make a difference? Some of us prefer to just observe the complexities of socialization and focus on different aspects of life. That might seem hypocritical now, since the point of the discussion alludes to current progress. But what am I supposed to do, pretend I live in a time where I don't have things like AVEN as resources? Link to post Share on other sites
gisiebob Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 yes, it is like paying taxes to make a difference. as in normalising things to a point at which people don't equate paying taxes with paved roads. paying taxes is just something you do and the roads getting fixed is just something that happens. taking the broadside volley of something like transgender abuse, even when it has nothing to do with you, should just be something you do, and understanding of our asexualities should just be something that just happens. just like taxes. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 If people dis you, educate them. If you say to someone "I'm asexual" and they say "go away you dirty trans" you can say "asexuality means I have no desire to connect sexually with others for pleasure, it has nothing to do with being trans, though of course trans people can be asexual. And transgender people aren't dirty, they're just people who identify with a different gender than the one they were biologically born as". That way, you've educated someone and helped spread some awareness about both asexuality and transgender people. Link to post Share on other sites
Mizuwolf Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Some Dr. Suess wisdom: "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind." It does hurt when you get judged by people (even ones you don't know), but anyone who actually cares about you won't hate you. People really only hate things that they don't understand, so try to help them understand. If they refuse to listen? Well that's their own problem. Link to post Share on other sites
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