chair jockey

are men/older aces no longer welcome here?

71 posts in this topic

Have you ever heard the saying that a society is defined by how it treats its minorities?

 

Well, on AVEN, men are a small minority. "Older asexuals" (which is itself a slur) are also a small minority.

 

And I'm starting to wonder whether those two demographics, which are my demographics, are still welcome here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think men of any age should be allowed here.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would either group not be welcome ? o.O 

13 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally accept and welcome those two demographics. While I don't speak for everyone on this site nor do I fit either of them, I feel it's very important to include all demographics, such as yours. (I didn't realize you/they were feeling unwelcomed. I know a lot of people don't immediately think of men being ace, but I didn't realize you felt excluded. Im sorry.)

Edited by laura_
10 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

Well, on AVEN, men are a small minority. "Older asexuals" (which is itself a slur) are also a small minority.

I was not aware that "older" was a slur? Do others feel this way? What would you rather they be called? Genuine questions. 

 

As for men, you've made no description of how they are being mistreated, so I can't really address that. 

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, twilightstarr said:

I was not aware that "older" was a slur? Do others feel this way? What would you rather they be called? Genuine questions. 

 

As for men, you've made no description of how they are being mistreated, so I can't really address that. 

 

"Older asexual" implies that there is a "right" age range to be asexual and everyone who is not in that age range is only a qualified asexual.

 

Over the last few days I've seen about half a dozen or more threads started by newcomers that strongly imply that asexuality is "for women, among women." That offends me.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they are just saying "older asexuals" just to give a description of their age.

 

Just like some people may say "asexual teens do this and that"

 

I'm a asexual in my 20s and I am accepted as asexual. Eventually I will be older asexual too.

 

Any age is welcome here.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Older Asexuals' does not have an age barrier - or we would not have pinned threads starting at the 20s :) 

10 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are using misdirective red herrings.

 

The "older asexuals" thing is something I should have made a separate thread about, because it's not nearly as much of an issue as the assumption being increasingly made that men aren't allowed to be asexual.

 

In a thread a few minutes ago someone asked what people's gynecologist says about their asexuality. No longer-term member bothered to point out that not every asexual has a gynecologist because not every asexual is female-bodied. That's a failure to educate a newcomer.

 

And it's a pattern I've observed of replies to newcomers preaching non-inclusiveness of men. It's one thing to express understanding of how a newcomer feels, and totally a different thing to reinforce their belief that men are never asexual and that asexual men don't have similar issues to the newcomer.

 

I'm,not happy about this site trending toward systemic erasure of my sex without anyone seeming to be aware of it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think "older" is meant in a negative way. I don't think there's really any other way of saying it that someone couldn't be offended by...if it was "mature asexuals", younger members could take it to mean they're immature.

 

I've not noticed any sort of age discrimination here, but I'm at the point where it wouldn't personally affect me anyway. I'm in the middle area of the membership, age-wise. I'm twice the age of some members, but less than half the age of a lot of others.

 

Either way, I'm a man and I'm loved by all. :ph34r:

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never had any issues.

 

10 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

In a thread a few minutes ago someone asked what people's gynecologist says about their asexuality. No longer-term member bothered to point out that not every asexual has a gynecologist because not every asexual is female-bodied. That's a failure to educate a newcomer.

1. AFAB, not female bodied. Just for future reference.

2. Why would someone need to point that out? It isn't necessary to say "Omg, there are DMAB aces too" every time someone mentions something AFAB related.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

People are using misdirective red herrings.

 

The "older asexuals" thing is something I should have made a separate thread about, because it's not nearly as much of an issue as the assumption being increasingly made that men aren't allowed to be asexual.

 

In a thread a few minutes ago someone asked what people's gynecologist says about their asexuality. No longer-term member bothered to point out that not every asexual has a gynecologist because not every asexual is female-bodied. That's a failure to educate a newcomer.

 

And it's a pattern I've observed of replies to newcomers preaching non-inclusiveness of men. It's one thing to express understanding of how a newcomer feels, and totally a different thing to reinforce their belief that men are never asexual and that asexual men don't have similar issues to the newcomer.

 

I'm,not happy about this site trending toward systemic erasure of my sex without anyone seeming to be aware of it.

We have many regulars who are male (either by sex or gender). The "face" of AVEN in the media is David Jay.  I've personally never seen anyone saying asexuals cannot be male, but if you do, please report it so the team can look at it. 

 

As for the gyno question - perhaps the user has their pronouns listed as female? Maybe they mentioned being female in another thread? Or perhaps the user who posted had talked to them and knew them from chat / PM / other sections? 

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

Have you ever heard the saying that a society is defined by how it treats its minorities?

 

Well, on AVEN, men are a small minority. "Older asexuals" (which is itself a slur) are also a small minority.

 

And I'm starting to wonder whether those two demographics, which are my demographics, are still welcome here.

I personally dont have a problem with "older asexuals", nor do I consider the term "older asexuals" a slur, and im sorry if you feel youre not welcome here because of your age, but to be fair, the vast majority of users on this site are 13-25 so when we are describing users who happen to have passed the age of majority they are referred to as older, its kinda like when im describing where I live "I live on this outskirts of this town" I dont think my house is offended that I described it as being on the outskirts because that is an accurate description of its location not meant as a slur

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, as a male, have never been mistreated due to this. I don't think it actually matters. 

I'm not 'older', though.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, ~Syl~ said:

I've never had any issues.

 

1. AFAB, not female bodied. Just for future reference.

2. Why would someone need to point that out? It isn't necessary to say "Omg, there are DMAB aces too" every time someone mentions some AFAB related.

 

If I unintentionally misgendered the member, I apoologize and shan't do so again.

 

But your point 2 is pure rhetoric. If you read the thread, it's like so many other newcomer threads lately. in the original post and all replies (except mine) there is a persistent presumption that asexuality is only for female-bodied people and by implication that there's no such thing as a male-bodied asexual. Given the nature of the original posts I think that YES, it is necessary to educate newcomers that asexuality is not only a female-bodied issue, because the newcomers strongly imply it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to say that men were not mentioned on a comment on what gynecologists say to them because they don't have gynecologists. 

 

Women's issues have been shunned by the medical profession for decades and we have been shamed out of discussing them in public. Pushing them out of discussing it in any manner is only going to be detrimental to the health of that woman.

 

Because of societies views surrounding women's issues, women are being diagnosed with serious conditions late in life. Last year, I was diagnosed with Endometriosis, fibroids, polyps and ovarian cancer. It took 15 years to even be taken seriously for the first 3 issues, I only taken seriously when they found the tumour. I'm not ashamed of it. I'm ashamed that the medical profession takes so long to diagnose a disease that causes internal bleeding. And my case isn't uncommon. 

 

A few years ago, I created a thread giving info about what to expect for gyne exams because so many Asexuals are too scared to go. I didn't speak about male disorders because I can't give a play by play account of what happens in male exams. 

 

Men dont need to be brought up in women's discussions. 

 

Actually, I'm going to make a point here and say some men DO have gynecologists. Those are female bodied people who identify as men. Those men have a right to complain about the discussion. 

10 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

 

If I unintentionally misgendered the member, I apoologize and shan't do so again.

 

But your point 2 is pure rhetoric. If you read the thread, it's like so many other newcomer threads lately. in the original post and all replies (except mine) there is a persistent presumption that asexuality is only for female-bodied people and by implication that there's no such thing as a male-bodied asexual. Given the nature of the original posts I think that YES, it is necessary to educate newcomers that asexuality is not only a female-bodied issue, because the newcomers strongly imply it.

No worries, we live and we learn. ^_^

 

Hm, I'll take a look at the rest of the responses. Personally I didn't get that vibe from what I've seen but I can understand how you might feel put-off. I'm sorry you feel marginalized.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is the Project Team member's position that asexuality is "for women, among women" also the official position of AVEN? If so, i have a lot of trouble with that.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Random question, I'm new here, and I didn't comment on this post but I'm getting notifs on it

Is that normal here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

Over the last few days I've seen about half a dozen or more threads started by newcomers that strongly imply that asexuality is "for women, among women." That offends me.

Really? o.0

 

 

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you PM me examples of where users have stated asexuality is for women, not men? You can't post them here, as that would be calling out users, but I could bring it up with the admods, if it is becoming an issue. I have no knowledge of these posts, personally, so would need to see the links.

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Serran said:

Could you PM me examples of where users have stated asexuality is for women, not men? You can't post them here, as that would be calling out users, but I could bring it up with the admods, if it is becoming an issue. I have no knowledge of these posts, personally, so would need to see the links.

 

There is no ToS violation, because a million different things circumvent the ToS without being ethical or acceptable in a progressive society.

 

If I had had a complaint to a moderator I would have quietly made one instead of starting a public discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chair jockey said:

 

There is no ToS violation, because a million different things circumvent the ToS without being ethical or acceptable in a progressive society.

 

If I had had a complaint to a moderator I would have quietly made one instead of starting a public discussion.

The team does not just look at ToS violations, but can post educational posts in threads if they feel they need them, as well as keep an eye on trends of posts to offer counter opinions/viewpoints when needed. This is something that is done mostly in Q&A and SPF&A, in my experience, but can be done anywhere it is needed. 

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Serran said:

The team does not just look at ToS violations, but can post educational posts in threads if they feel they need them, as well as keep an eye on trends of posts to offer counter opinions/viewpoints when needed. This is something that is done mostly in Q&A and SPF&A, in my experience, but can be done anywhere it is needed. 

 

I apologize for not being aware of that. From now on I'll quietly make suggestions to an admod.

 

Since this thing is already public, I'll just make the suggestion here.

 

While there can't realistically be a requirement on member replies to be inclusive, I think admods should briefly and succinctly educate newcomers about the diversity of asexuals and correct any obvious misimpression based on the newcomer's personal experience that asexual issues are restricted to one specific sex or gender.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EVERYBODY 

 

Before this thread becomes report central, could we please think before posting. 

 

One of the great things about AVEN is that this community accepts everyone, age, gender, orientation, etc al are immaterial. 

Edited by Skycaptain
turned this green
8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, chair jockey said:

So is the Project Team member's position that asexuality is "for women, among women" also the official position of AVEN? If so, i have a lot of trouble with that.

 

There is no such Project Team position. To be honest I have a lot of difficulty finding even a bit of that opinion in Ciri's post (who, besides, clearly posted as a member) above. If you are referring to another post, I would like to know which.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was under the impression that 'men can be asexual too' was something that went without saying...which is why it often goes without being said. Its unfortunate that more male-centric discussion doesn't start...but as you state, males are a minority here. By simple cause and effect, if most people posting on a forum are of a certain group, most posts are going to pertain to that group. Lack of being brought up is not systematic erasure...its oversight at worst. Just like people not having heard of asexuality and asking questions is not harassment, its lack of knowledge.

 

It's likely, statistically speaking, that some posts are intentionally insinuating that male bodied (or DMAB) people should not be allowed here, but the majority of these threads about women's issues aren't posted to make men feel unwelcome. They're there to discuss women's issues. If you want to see more threads discussing men's issues...start them. Be the change you want to see in the world. I suppose you could also spend your time posting "Male asexuals exist too" in every female-centric thread...but in a lot of them it would be a non sequitar at best and overbearing at worst. 

 

Lack of representation is an issue, but it's not intentional animosity. If you want to see more men's threads, start them. If you want to point out that men's issues exists in threads that are talking about women's issues, do so, in a non-confrontational way that pertains to the topic of the thread. It's unfortunate that you feel victimized, but I doubt most of it was intentional. Oversight is not an attack.

 

As for the 'older asexuals', I've honestly mostly seen this term used by the 'older asexuals' themselves, stating "I am" or "As an", as a way to distinguish that they have been living with, learning about, and coming to terms with, their asexuality for many years, it's not a new thing for them, and while they may have questions, 'time' probably isn't the answer to any of them. It's meant as additional information for respondents to consider in their response, not an attack on some one's validity. 

12 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

EVERYBODY 

 

Before this thread becomes report central, could we please think before posting. 

 

One of the great things about AVEN is that this community accepts everyone, age, gender, orientation, etc al are immaterial. 

 

The thread arose from my lack of knowledge that admods can receive suggestions rather than just ToS violation complaints. I'll take my lumps for that if necessary.

 

Beyond that I consider the issue resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

could we please think before posting. 

you're asking a lot of me here 

19 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the OP 

 

There is no differentiation on sex or gender in AVENland. 

 

Older asexuals is not a slur. It is designed to recognise that people of different ages may have different matters of concern, and different hobbies and pastimes. 

8 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now