Puella Magi Madoka Magica?

[emma-can]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:50 PM, gaogao said:

so I think it will go in the same direction with a billion spinoffs and movies and new characters

There are a LOT of manga spinoffs

 

[gaogao]

6 hours ago, emma-can said:

There are a LOT of manga spinoffs

 

I really liked Oriko but I wasn't so keen on Kazumi. I haven't read the others yet...

[K!m]

On May 3, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Ousel said:

:Gush: I love the original TV show very much. I am not wild about the English dubbed version because it dumbs down the language a whole lot. The original japanese (via the subtitles) is beautiful. The voice acting for the English version also leaves a lot to be desired.

IKR? I mean I've only heard the English dub for a few moments (any more and I'll lose it), but even my 2 voice actor friends from the US say the dub is bad. And then the dubbers redid the dub for the recap movies (as the Japanese VAs did) and I heard it got worse. Then they did Rebellion and they say it was the worst of all. But anyway, the Japanese VAs' performances are amazing! Aoi Yūki does a great innocent, comforting voice as Madoka, and my personal favorite VA (probably in the world) Chiwa Saitō sounds as if she plays 5 different characters when they're all just Homura (which further highlights the complexity of her character). What sealed the deal for me was knowing about her first take in the last fifteen minutes of Rebellion. While the first take is impressive in its own right, the final version is a more accurate portrayal of Homura's new state of mind. Christina Vee made the mistake of going by the 1st take route in her dubbing.

 

On May 3, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Ousel said:

I liked the twist in the movie plot.

THANK YOU. I'm tired of seeing people blindly trash-talk the story just because it's upsetting. I wish they'd take a moment to really think about what happened. Plus it's obvious the ending shouldn't be taken at face value.

 

On May 3, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Ousel said:

What do you all think about the witch concept? That soulless magical girls go evil after a while. Or people who are spiraling in negative thoughts go all evil witch? That's me sometimes, sorry to say. Major depression makes everything crazy in a no fun kinda way. Seems like it would take a lot of mental fortitude to be a magical girl.

**TRIGGER WARNING**

Spoiler

I've never been to a professional to be diagnosed with depression, but I might have it (I've attempted and constantly think about the thing if that's evidence enough) so I can relate.

 

Homura's low moments in the show and movie really resonate with me.

 

On May 3, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Ousel said:

What are some other magical girl themed shows etc that you all enjoy? I'm not familiar with the genre on the whole. I just found Madoka on Netflix. 

I've not seen a magical girl anime that isn't deconstruction (or yuri for that matter). Apart from PMMM, I've seen Revolutionary Girl Utena, Kill la Kill, Flip Flappers, Symphogear, Yurikuma Arashi, and Kannazuki no Miko. I love them all except the last three.

Utena, though hilarious at first, gets really dark and disturbing, in an adult way... But it teaches a great lesson, and you can tell it inspired PMMM. Kill la Kill is actually more shounen and has a lot of nudity, but I found it really fun as well as touching at times. Flip Flappers is amazing, but the ending sadly pales in comparison to the rest of the story. Symphogear is fun but doesn't have a particularly smart execution. Yurikuma is okay; it's a nice allegory for homophobia, but there was a good amount of fan service and "wtf is going on", as expected from the creator of Utena. I don't like Kannazuki no Miko but I mention it because PMMM & Rebellion kinda mirror parts of its story.

[Ousel]

15 hours ago, K!m said:

The Japanese VAs' performances are amazing! Aoi Yūki does a great innocent, comforting voice as Madoka, and my personal favorite VA (probably in the world) Chiwa Saitō sounds as if she plays 5 different characters when they're all just Homura (which further highlights the complexity of her character). 

Agreed! I feel lucky to have watched the show before the dub. Now, I don't even know how to get my hands on the original. Sigh. Seems like there are a lot of garbage copies on Amazon, or super expensive and unrated by users. 

Quote

THANK YOU. I'm tired of seeing people blindly trash-talk the story just because it's upsetting. I wish they'd take a moment to really think about what happened. Plus it's obvious the ending shouldn't be taken at face value.

Totally agree with you. 

Quote

**TRIGGER WARNING**

Spoiler

I've never been to a professional to be diagnosed with depression, but I might have it (I've attempted and constantly think about the thing if that's evidence enough) so I can relate.

Homura's low moments in the show and movie really resonate with me.

As someone who works on a crisis hotline, that worries me! If you were in the US, there is the Lifeline. Counselors are trained to talk about "it" openly and non-judgmentally. Looks like you're in the Philippines though, and I'm not sure what resources are there. 

But yeah, Homura's state of mind in the movie is what got to me the most. It must be difficult for folks who haven't been through it to understand her character development. Maybe that's why they trash it, idk.  

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I've not seen a magical girl anime that isn't deconstruction (or yuri for that matter). Apart from PMMM, I've seen Revolutionary Girl Utena, Kill la Kill, Flip Flappers, Symphogear, Yurikuma Arashi, and Kannazuki no Miko. I love them all except the last three.

Thanks for writing about those a bit. I looked them up and will check'm out. Thanks! That super helps. 

[probablypandas]

Homura is my favorite character, but I like Sayaka's outfit best.

 

It's an amazing show, but I'm not a fan of the movies. I've seen this show emotionally break people.

 

[gaogao]

19 hours ago, Ousel said:

But yeah, Homura's state of mind in the movie is what got to me the most. It must be difficult for folks who haven't been through it to understand her character development. Maybe that's why they trash it, idk.  

Ehh, I kind of don't agree with this. I suffer from depression and anxiety and I really disliked Homura's character development in the movie. As you say, it got to me, but not in a positive way. While I do understand the character development, I feel it takes something away from the message of the original series. That's not to say I dislike the movie, I enjoyed the idea of Homura's rebellion (it felt believable and I think it does make sense thematically), but as a canon continuation of the series it really upsets me for the following reasons.

 

 Spoilers ahead (of course):

Spoiler

Homura and Madoka's relationship at the end of the series was a source of hope for me. Madoka's sacrifice was her choice and exemplified (to me) the strength of a young girl to face adversity and suffering in a world that is horrible and unfair. The message at the end of the series is: "Don't forget, always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you -- as long as you remember her, you are not alone." 

 

I see Madoka as an ordinary girl who doesn't think she's particularly smart or special, yet her belief in the dreams of other girls like her gives her the strength to fight against a world that manipulates and hurts us -- specifically by using our girlish dreams and hopes against us. At the end of the TV series Homura is the only one who remembers Madoka and her fight. I felt that if Madoka became a God that protects and believes in the wishes of young girls, then Homura was her prophet - after all, Homura's own sacrifice made it possible for Madoka to "change everything". I wanted to believe that this was sustainable, and the movie destroyed that by focusing on Homura's rebellion. Homura remembered Madoka, but instead of drawing strength from Madoka and remembering she wasn't alone, she eventually rejected her choice and succumbed to despair anyway. (This isn't all that inspiring for someone with depression who is drawing strength from Madoka's original message.)

 

I mean, I understand the point, as Homura's love for Madoka broke her and she couldn't stand to see her best friend sacrifice herself for a system that only mildly alleviated the suffering of other magical girls. Yes, the system was still unfair, and the world is still unfair, but I felt that with this action, Homura chose to insulate herself in her newly created universe rather than accept the hope Madoka embodied. Homura extended her barrier to the whole of the world in order to "protect" Madoka and her friends, but it's sterile and eliminates their free will. She imposes her own will on Madoka's out of love, which i felt was incredibly unhealthy and manipulative in terms of a depressed person's development.

 

You asked what we think about the idea of Magical Girls turning into Witches... and personally, I love it. I'm not sure if you picked this up in the translation but Kyubey says that it is only natural that magical girls (Mahou shoujo 魔法少女) turn into witches (Majo 魔女), with emphasis on the words "shoujo" and "jo" -- girls / women. My interpretation of this is that the hopes, dreams and wishes of young girls are often used and manipulated and turned against us, leading us to despair as we grow up. The girls' despair then corrupts them, turning them into Witches that go back on the wish they made in the first place, similar to how we reject many of our childhood dreams as stupid and unrealistic. Madoka's wish however, to "change everything" made it so that while the Magical Girls created after her Law of Cycles was introduced are still subjected to manipulation, their original wish is never corrupted. The girls are able to keep that wish intact even when their energy expires and they disappear. 

 

Homura destroyed this image for me in the Rebellion Story.

 

In conclusion... I don't know if it was intentional but I really loved the message of hope in the face of adversity in the original series, especially the acknowledgement that life is hard and unfair. I felt like Madoka somehow embodied the understanding that even where you can fight there is never going to be a 100% ideal solution, but even so you can still have hope. Madoka did her best and Homura's development in the movie seemed to me like it negated that small sliver of hope and was giving us the opposite message.....  Which, tbh, fair, because PMMM was always a grimdark magical girl story. It was definitely beautifully executed and I still enjoyed watching it on the surface.

 

It's fair to say that if I wanted happy stuff I should know where to look, but I was still a little disappointed. Perhaps I'm not the demographic this story is trying to appeal to, but there you go.

 

 

Anndd those are my two cents. 

 

FWIW I enjoy and agree with the good series recommended by @K!m  - (especially Utena) - but I actually prefer Yurikuma over Kill La Kill. Kill La Kill is definitely more shounen and I'm veeery hesitant to mention it as a magical girl series... but it's definitely a good watch. They're very different so I'm sure it's down to personal taste.. and I agree that Yurikuma is definitely very VERY wtf, so I don't recommend it to anyone who isn't already very familiar with that director's work (Maybe give Mawaru Penguindrum a try before Yurikuma, which is a bit more accessible?). For other Dark Magical Girl series, there's Yuki Yuna is a Hero (average) and Magical Girl Raising Project (horrifying), which are both still fun in absolutely soul-destroying ways. 

 

For more "Traditional" magical girl series (keeping in mind these are for children) -- The classics are Sailor Moon and Card Captor Sakura of course, which you should definitely watch subbed rather than dubbed if you can find them. Aside from that... I highly recommend Go! Princess Precure, especially if you watch Utena and enjoy it... and if you watch that and want more like it, Heartcatch and Fresh Precure are two of the most popular in the franchise. (Smile Precure is actually also available on Netflix under the title "Glitter Force", but as I haven't seen that version and I hear it's highly edited). I also quite recommend Full Moon Wo Sagashite and Tokyo Mew Mew. 

 

Hope that was at least interesting... even if you disagree with me, lol.

[Guest]

I liked PMMM. Homura x Madoka was my first lesbian ship

 

I don't remember what I expected going into it (I watched it years ago), but once I figured out what kind of anime it was it shook me.  

[Ousel]

5 hours ago, gaogao said:

Ehh, I kind of don't agree with this. I suffer from depression and anxiety and I really disliked Homura's character development in the movie. ... I feel it takes something away from the message of the original series.

Good point. Yeah, it's not that I liked it, as the ending was very upsetting! It's more like I was interested in how they found a way to continue the story. It's that bad fan problem of wanting more....and it's not always in the best interest of the series to give it. That said, I'd hope that Rebellion leaves us somewhere else to go for Homura. I'm not sure it took away from the series but it certain dashed the hopeful feeling I was left with. :shrug:

5 hours ago, gaogao said:

  Hide contents

I'm not sure if you picked this up in the translation but Kyubey says that it is only natural that magical girls (Mahou shoujo 魔法少女) turn into witches (Majo 魔女), with emphasis on the words "shoujo" and "jo" -- girls / women.

 

Ah, I did miss that. Thank you for explaining. This highlights that there is quite a bit I'm not picking up on as an english speaker. 

 

And thank you for the suggestions! Seems like a few of them are available to me here. Yay. 

[gaogao]

16 hours ago, Ousel said:

Good point. Yeah, it's not that I liked it, as the ending was very upsetting! It's more like I was interested in how they found a way to continue the story. It's that bad fan problem of wanting more....and it's not always in the best interest of the series to give it. That said, I'd hope that Rebellion leaves us somewhere else to go for Homura. I'm not sure it took away from the series but it certain dashed the hopeful feeling I was left with. :shrug:

Well, for what it's worth I really don't think that the movie was bad writing. On the contrary... it was actually really good writing. Urobuchi had to come up with a continuation to the series, and he wrote something that was both incredibly clever and consistent with Homura's emotional state. In fact, it was a really beautiful, heart-breaking rendition, tied really well to the themes of the series. And as much as I might prefer to think Homura would have had more faith in Madoka's choice, what she did in the movie was believable and even relatable.... which is why I have mixed feelings about it as a canon installment, due to my feelings/emotional investment in the initial series and its message of hope. 

 

I guess it's just... what I wanted to point out is that people like me dislike the movie not because we can't relate, but because we feel that destroying the hopeful message of the series did take away from it, even if it was well written (and this is just a matter of opinion, really..). In my case, I think I relate too well and it really hurt to see a beloved character fall off a cliff like that.. (lol) 

 

But well... I'm fairly certain Madoka was never meant to be a motivational anime. It was about magical girls and suffering, and it's going to go in that direction regardless of what I want. Even if you're a bad fan for wanting more at the expense of the first series' message, you're going to get more because that message was probably never really meant to be there in the first place... and honestly, if that's the case, I was a bad fan in placing too much emotional investment in it and hoping it would be preserved.

 

Even so.. i'm still definitely interested in what comes next. Concept Movie fight-o!

[aquas]

On 5/2/2017 at 6:36 PM, Ousel said:

What are some other magical girl themed shows etc that you all enjoy?

Surprisingly, I do also like Sailor Moon, although I wholeheartedly admit that show is bad, but it's a "so bad it's good" type of thing. XD (I mostly like it 'cause Artemis is my favorite character!)

 

 

[Jea]

Have some of you read the manga too? I've only watched the anime, are the manga worth the trouble?

[Megane]

On 4/18/2017 at 11:15 PM, _rio said:

Holy smokes this anime. Yes, 'tis a lighthearted show. Please indulge yourselves, friends. 

 

Make sure to drink lots of water because every drop of moisture in your body might come out of your eyeballs I mean *cough* It's so happy happy!  

ha..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA youre mean lol

also sayaka is my favorite character next to homura 

[aquas]

On 5/3/2017 at 11:11 AM, probablypandas said:

but I like Sayaka's outfit best.

Me too! In my opinion, her outfit is a lot more fitting for fighting!

[aquas]

15 hours ago, Findus said:

are the manga worth the trouble?

ASDFGHJIKO Oh how I wish I could say I've read it. I actually haven't. However, unlike most animes with their manga counterparts, PMMM not only has a manga that fits the story lines of the original anime, it also has additional manga novels to read to better understand the characters. One example of his is A Different Story, which depicts the relationship between Mami and Kyoko before the original anime began - a sort of prequel if you will.

So yes! I reccomend those types of mangas for reading! The others are okay too but not really worth the trouble.

[K!m]

On June 4, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Findus said:

Have some of you read the manga too? I've only watched the anime, are the manga worth the trouble?

I've only read the main ones, as in the ones still titled "Madoka Magica" and not the spin-offs (like Kazumi Magica, Oriko Magica, and there's even one about Joan of Arc. I mean I've tried Kazumi Magica but it strayed too far from PMMM's lore for me).

 

There are 4 in the main line: a re-telling of the anime series, the story of Kyoko and Mami during a certain timeline ("The Different Story"), a re-telling of Rebellion, and the interquel between the anime and Rebellion ("Wraith Arc"), all of which are by the artist Hanokage. Her art style starts out pretty ordinary but you get to see her amazing progress in those works; I love it! She also put some of her own interesting little twists in the re-tellings. I love how her works are so gay

[aquas]

On 4/28/2017 at 11:51 AM, Tanzanite said:

That soundtrack though...Symposium Magarum is one of my favorites!

I LOVE THE SOUNDTRACK! I listen to it all the time! My personal favorites are all the character themes, Venari Strigas, and a couple others!

 

[aquas]

On 5/3/2017 at 1:39 AM, K!m said:

What sealed the deal for me was knowing about her first take in the last fifteen minutes of Rebellion.

I know this is old, but I personally loved both voice versions! Nothing beats the original, but the dub wasn't half bad! I loved Kyubey, Homura, and Mami's voices - I felt they did a splendid job.

[akanesarumara]

I love that anime!! I was hooked like 5 seconds into the first episode and it changed the way I look at magical girl anime forever. I love Sayaka and Kyoko ^^

[akanesarumara]

I love that anime!! I was hooked like 5 seconds into the first episode and it changed the way I look at magical girl anime forever. I love Sayaka and Kyoko ^^

[guava]

I love Puella Magi Madoka Magica. I'm actually planning on rewatching it since I haven't seen it in a while.... I still haven't seen the movie, but I'm planning to soon.

 

I think I like Sayaka and Kyoko the best, though I like Homura as well.