There's no such thing as emotions!

[binary suns]

16 hours ago, Evren said:

My brain is trained that touching a hot burner will hurt me too. But if I just decide that, that is just a response to stimulus and leave my hand there, then I will still be burned.

no, this is the opposite. we are taught what emotions are by our parents and teachers and peers. but when do we learn that touching a burner is hot? when we touch it and it hurts and we get burned. all of those - touching the heat, feeling pain, observing the burn - those are sensational experiences. physiology. but emotions? the idea of emotions is like the idea that you shouldn't touch the burner. 

 

and so I wonder, where exactly is emotions? where is the reality of "don't touch the burner" neither of those things are there. they are just concepts we hold. what really is there is the sensation itself, and nothing further. well, and we assume there is a physical existence too, the burner, and the brain. but where are "emotions" in all of this? where is "don't touch the burner?" these are what we learn, what does not come with the inherent state. but pain, sensation, and thought - all those are designed into the brain itself, by designed I mean it is the structure of the brain itself. 

 

the "emotion" and the "don't touch the burner" when do they enter into physical form - mapped out in the brain - except when we train those memories into it through practice? sensation can be trained Away, but it is there from infancy. 

 

so emotions - I say they are only sensation that directly come from physiological events, and nothing more. what else is there to it? in this way, there is no such thing as emotions, becuase we do not call pain an emotion. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

You don't need to be taught what anger and sadness are to experience them, you're taught the word for them.

[ChillaKilla]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22642358

 

A medical peer reviewed journal confirming the existence of emotions

[binary suns]

16 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

You don't need to be taught what anger and sadness are to experience them, you're taught the word for them.

so you're saying that the only thing that is emotion is the sensations of experiencing them?

 

so, where is emotion then? it is just another word for sensation. the belief that there is an emotion at all is what is "taught" to us. but what is teachings of it is an illusory trap.. imagine a culture with a language, which instead of having a hundred words for complex and confusing and inconsistent, subjective patterns of sensation, they had a hundred words instead for just the sensations. wouldn't that also be a viable way of approaching the subject at hand? and which would you say would be easier to understand - the culture which mentions the two to three sensations it most powerfully feels at present, or our culture which hides those sensations behind the veil of emotion? "how are you today" "good good" - a conversation between two people who care about each other we obsess about emotions because they are confusing and complex and it takes all our brain power to assess them. we don't share with others because it's too complex to communicate emotions, they surely won't understand. and they'll probably try to fix or problems but will be so off target.

 

sadly I don't expect you will see what I mean by this... you'll see emotions as the "clear" way to communicate all that... when the reality is that completely ignoring emotions and saying the events that occur is the real solution. what leads to better conversation: "I'm stressed out about family" or "mom expected me to be at the Reunion but I have to work" and what solves the problem: "we're just bound to both be unhappy no matter what" or "being at the Reunion will lead to distraction and tensions in my body. and if I let this prevent me from acting socially, my mother will have similar sensations and distractions of thought"

 

misery is what happens when we work and work an work but just can't notice the reality of our sensations, because we only abstract then into this make believe emotion. "I'm so unmotivated why am I unmotivated. oh let me validate my lack of effort by making up tangential reasons for my unmotivation" v. "I do not have energy in my body and am not getting up. oh! let me eat and drink and move to get blood flowing"

[binary suns]

16 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22642358

 

A medical peer reviewed journal confirming the existence of emotions

did you notice how he said that are socially constructed? did you notice how he mentioned biological events? there is no emotion. that is constructed. there is just physiology. tension in muscles, pains thereof, brain states and sensations thereof. there is nothing further... "emotions" do not exist  just as "the road" is just a kind of pavement. 

 

tell me, is there something in emotions that is more than just sensation and thought? because that's what doesn't exist. yet we obsess over the pursuit of happiness as if "happiness" is some thing to obtain! no wonder we "suffer" when we don't even know what these emotions are. emotions are delusions. we do not actually suffer.

[binary suns]

here - 

 

the road itself exists, but "the road" does not - what exists is actually pavement laid out in a linear fashion.

 

now look to the sky, see that cloud? look it's is a bunny! oh wait, it is just in the pattern of a bunny. the bunny as it exists is not water vapor floating in the atmosphere.

 

now look it this photo of a unicorn. it is just ink laid out in the pattern of the unicorn - there is no "the unicorn" like there was no "the road" but there also is no actual unicorn, unlike the actual road.

 

this is what I say about emotions. it is like looking at a layout of colors and claiming there is clear evidence the unicorn exists - after all we have this undeniable photograph of it! it must be real! this is what emotions are. they are a pattern - like a road is actually only just a pattern - but it is like the unicorn - what is actually there is not what we believe is there, but instead it is something else. the unicorn is a pattern of ink. the emotion is a pattern of sensations. the trap is that - it is like saying a unicorn is real because unicorns are arrangement of ink. therefore, because all images of unicorns are arrangement if ink, unicorns are real! 

 

 some people already are free of the trap of emotions because they do not pay heed to their "emotions" but other people... waste time and energy trying to attend to emotions as if they are what is real. what is real is much more straightforward and simple. 

 

 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Dude, the word for these 'sensations' is emotion. If they or their concept didn't exist there wouldn't be a word for them. You feel them regardless of whether you 'believe' in them.

[binary suns]

I am saying that there is nothing more to "emotions" than these sensations. the fact that we call these sensations emotions is exactly what I am saying. I am saying that there also is a trend to have some idea of an "emotion" beyond these sensations - as if these sensations have some deep meaning - and as if these sensations are dictatorial on our actions - and as if these sensations are very important social factors. 

 

I'm not denying that most people believe in all that deeper voodoo magic. but IDK about you but I've certainly come to terms with reality and realized that all those beliefs most people buy into are not actually a real thing at all. just some made up cult most people are unaware they're a part of. 

 

 

it's a shame I have no clue how to break people free of the spell! my attempts here are quite ineffective.  

[Anthracite_Impreza]

17 hours ago, Meow. said:

I am saying that there is nothing more to "emotions" than these sensations. the fact that we call these sensations emotions is exactly what I am saying. I am saying that there also is a trend to have some idea of an "emotion" beyond these sensations - as if these sensations have some deep meaning - and as if these sensations are dictatorial on our actions - and as if these sensations are very important social factors. 

They have whatever meaning they do to each individual. Emotions might have little impact on one person and lots on another, you can't just say they are blanket not significant. But yes, there is technically nothing more to emotions than the feelings, I'm not sure people think there is? There's nothing more than feelings to hunger as well (not literal starvation of course).

[binary suns]

1 hour ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

they are blanket not significant

O.o your words, not mine. 

 

there is no reality there to "best frined" yet those are very very significant. 

 

(the reason I knock emotions and don't knock best friends, is because emotions fuck up your lives every day, despite that being avoidable) 

 

edIt: I am just asking that you ponder how much significance emotions has, that is created by you, that you fabricate, that you attribute, which could alternative not be there if only you become aware of it, and work to replace it with more realistic paradigms. Are you angry at your mom because she called you fat, or are you tense because your self-perspective is being challenged, and it really has nothing at all to do with your mom whatsoever? there is no emotion, just the sensation. the emotion we create because we want to track the relationship of events to sensation - but it is very very common that this "emotion" is much more comparable to the unicorn's fabrication than to the road's fabrication. 

 

edit 2: I am basically saying that the road is 90% grounded in reality and 10% the mirage of concept, but an emotion is 90% grounded in mirage. there is reality there - but spend a year trying to observe all your emotions that you can remember to, as deeply and truly as you can. and come back and you'll be telling me how much you've changed your perspective about emotions and relationships. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

2 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

you can't just say they are blanket not significant.

@Meow. You missed an important word there.

[RK800]

Y'all seem stressed

Here's a baby hippo

[binary suns]

1 hour ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

@Meow. You missed an important word there.

you missed the part where I said that I did not say such a thing. 

 

and you missed the part where those words are coming out of what you are saying. you say it. you think you don't say it because you say that it can't be said, but since I never said it in the first place... then how did you get that idea? you had to have thought it up. you may have denied that the idea came to you, but the idea did come to you. 

 

i did not say it. I said that emotions are not real. I also said that a lot of people care about emotions... not in so many words... lemme find the quote tho. 

[binary suns]

22 hours ago, Meow. said:

I'm not denying that most people believe in all that deeper voodoo magic. but IDK about you but I've certainly come to terms with reality and realized that all those beliefs most people buy into are not actually a real thing at all. just some made up cult most people are unaware they're a part of. 

here. 

 

so my question is - where in this post am I claiming that some cult is insignificant? for all those followers, the cult is VERY significant!

 

this is the nature of our existence. we "understand" we "think" and we "believe" - and it is only up to us, what it is that we follow in these ways. Most people in our current culture follow rationality, the scientific method. It sure leads them to greatness! so with this rationality - please, search for "emotions" such that it is not just sensation and thought. I've found that there is nothing there. only more thoughts, an idea that there is something there at all! 

 

no - I am not saying that emotion is a kind of thought - it isn't some subcategory, which having a derivative title helps to focus on - it isn't that. I'm saying that... we believe that the thinking is not thinking. the belief is that there IS an emotion. some kind of lawful connection between the sensation and the negative thoughts. but there isn't. you can befull of energy and think, "wow I'm so sad right now... life really sucks... I want to die" and you can completely lack energy, sore all over, resistant to action or to sleep. and think, "look at me, the happiest person alive. everything is jolly good right now! life is so exciting!" 

 

 

 

ever here of "fake it till you make it"? you know what that is? it's you convincing yourself with your thoughts to change your belief. you were writing papers for the popular newspaper before, and you're writing papers for the same popular paper after too. but, before you thought you didn't deserve it and could only be a fake. and after, you thought that you were successful and deserving of the rare, competitive position. This is what emotion is - it is thought which pretends to be something else. or sensation which we believe has something more to it than just the feeling of it. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

20 minutes ago, Meow. said:

you missed the part where I said that I did not say such a thing. 

 

and you missed the part where those words are coming out of what you are saying. you say it. you think you don't say it because you say that it can't be said, but since I never said it in the first place... then how did you get that idea? you had to have thought it up. you may have denied that the idea came to you, but the idea did come to you. 

 

i did not say it. I said that emotions are not real. I also said that a lot of people care about emotions... not in so many words... lemme find the quote tho. 

What. 

[Anthracite_Impreza]

44 minutes ago, ~Syl~ said:

Y'all seem stressed

Here's a baby hippo

Omg it's a Pygmy hippo as well; let me snuggle it 

[binary suns]

2 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

What. 

chicken butt! 

[Homer]

42 minutes ago, Meow. said:

I said that emotions are not real.

Still doesn't make any sense to me, no matter how much you try to explain it. Sorry.

 

On 16.4.2017 at 3:34 PM, Meow. said:

the road itself exists, but "the road" does not - what exists is actually pavement laid out in a linear fashion.

What's the point to distinguish between those two? Where does it make any difference? Why would one deny the existence of a road when one acknowledges the existence of a pavement laid out in linear fashion?

[Pramana]

My inclination is to link the applicable Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy pages:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/emotion/

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-emotion-india/

[Anthracite_Impreza]

17 minutes ago, Meow. said:

chicken butt! 

I genuinely could not follow what you said... however my point still stands. Emotions are just the name we give to certain feelings, that's all they are. That doesn't mean they're not real.

[binary suns]

emotions = feelings... ok... I might agree with you... so... what are feelings? 

 

are emotions uncontrollable? are they some force which hugely influences your life? 

 

 

edit: basically, what I am saying is - 

when I feel sad. I am feeling tense, sore, tired, stiff, unenergetic, and all of these are in my body directly. they are mostly in my muscles actually. direct sensations in the muscles. and I am saying - THIS is real. originally I called this feelings - but I started to call it sensations due to some confusion which arose. and I am saying - THAT is what is real, and if that isn't ALL that emotion is, then emotion is not real. because that is all there is to it. there are those sensations - and then there are thoughts we have about those sensations. 

[XYZ96]

Emotions are responses to things that causes a change in your mental and physical state, these changes are measurable

Feelings are how those responses or emotions show themselves (not really completely objectively measurable, at least not as measurable as emotions)... 

so like if you hit someone with a hammer, and they notice, they will react (be it visibly or not). Being hit with the hammer is the thing you are reacting to and is causing an emotional response (basically the automatic physical changes that happen in your body and brain when you notice that you have been hit with a hammer), that response is the emotion, the reaction you do, like punching the person in the face for hitting you with a hammer or staring at them confused, because why are they hitting you with a hammer are the feelings and are much more subjective. (this was an example of external stimuli, you could also replace the hammer with a memory of.. chocolate or something...) 

I guess maybe a more simple example would be a flight-or-fight-response is an emotional response if you flee, that would be how you went about the response would and be the feeling, as it's the so to say the reflexion of the emotion... 

but... the whole emotions, feelings stuff is in the large realm greyness between neurology and psychology and I'm not the greatest in neurology, so take my words with a pile of salt... 

 

but yeah, if you decide to use sensations to describe emotions because you are unable to come to a satisfying definition that makes perfect sense to you, do that, you aren't wrong, they are sensations/responses to stimuli... but they are real, they are even measurable, and those muscle tensions, goosebumps, speeding heart and tension belong to the response...  

 

[flowerage]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:11 AM, Polygon said:

It's true. One of the most renowned philosophers once posed the thought-provoking question: "How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real"?. It changed the entire philosophical landscape, really.

 

Yes, Jaden Smith on Twitter, "one of the most renowned philosophers" 

[Philip027]

Emotions feel a lot more real to me than some other things that other people insist are actually real.

[njosnavelin]

There might be no emotions you feel. The actions in what you do does transmit emotion to others.

 

The gueature of giving someone a flower you might feel no emotion, but the motion does carry an emotional impact to the person you give it to. 

[binary suns]

3 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Emotions feel a lot more real to me than some other things that other people insist are actually real.

isn't this such a curious thing and what is most curious is how we believe emotions are real not because we feel them, but instead because our role models and peers all told us that what we're feeling is emotion!

 

1 hour ago, njosnavelin said:

There might be no emotions you feel. The actions in what you do does transmit emotion to others.

 

The gesture of giving someone a flower you might feel no emotion, but the motion does carry an emotional impact to the person you give it to. 

isn't this a curiosity - the inherent relativity in our culture's shared concept of what emotions supposedly are? There often is a complete lack of overlap between two people regarding an emotion they report they feel!

[XYZ96]

On 4/14/2017 at 4:11 PM, Polygon said:

It's true. One of the most renowned philosophers once posed the thought-provoking question: "How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real"?. It changed the entire philosophical landscape, really.

kinda off topic as it isn't about emotions (that's why it's in a spoiler, don't really want to derail): 

Spoiler

 

simple, mirrors are physical objects and their existence is not connected to the object observing them, aka our eyes. 

So, you have a unicorn and it is looking at a lake. Well, that unicorn doesn't exist, but the lake still does, because it's existence isn't determined by the unicorn, the lake existed likely before and after that unicorn would have existed, had that unicorn not been nonexistent. 

Not the same thing can not be said about the reflection. A nonexistent unicorn is looking at it's reflection in the lake. The reflexions existence is a side product of the unicorns existence, unlike the lake (or a random mirror), therefore that reflection either does not exist or is not a reflection. 

the thing is a mirror=/=a reflection and eyes don't have influence on the existence of mirrors... 

 

also, how aren't eyes real? if you mean by that, that most of atoms is empty space or whatever, just because >99% of something is empty space does not make it nonexistent, especially if it's very existence can be measured... 

 

[ChillaKilla]

2 hours ago, XYZ96 said:

kinda off topic as it isn't about emotions (that's why it's in a spoiler, don't really want to derail): 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

simple, mirrors are physical objects and their existence is not connected to the object observing them, aka our eyes. 

So, you have a unicorn and it is looking at a lake. Well, that unicorn doesn't exist, but the lake still does, because it's existence isn't determined by the unicorn, the lake existed likely before and after that unicorn would have existed, had that unicorn not been nonexistent. 

Not the same thing can not be said about the reflection. A nonexistent unicorn is looking at it's reflection in the lake. The reflexions existence is a side product of the unicorns existence, unlike the lake (or a random mirror), therefore that reflection either does not exist or is not a reflection. 

the thing is a mirror=/=a reflection and eyes don't have influence on the existence of mirrors... 

 

also, how aren't eyes real? if you mean by that, that most of atoms is empty space or whatever, just because >99% of something is empty space does not make it nonexistent, especially if it's very existence can be measured... 

 

Your point is very valid, just thought you should know the "great philosopher" is Jaden Smith

[Polygon]

19 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

Your point is very valid, just thought you should know the "great philosopher" is Jaden Smith

I feel accomplished in knowing that I got someone to genuinely try to refute Jaden Smith's "blunder years" twitter philosophies. 

 

I'm just glad I didn't have twitter when I was 14.

[XYZ96]

22 minutes ago, Polygon said:

I feel accomplished in knowing that I got someone to genuinely try to refute Jaden Smith's "blunder years" twitter philosophies. 

 

I'm just glad I didn't have twitter when I was 14.

I'm glad I could make you feel accomplish ...