PixieCat Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I have a friend who is quite vocal about how just asexuality or aromanticism doesn't make you LGBT+. I accept this as his viewpoint, and I'm not sure where I stand yet, but it raises an interesting point because it can cause exclusion of cishet aces/aros. What does everyone here think? Does being ace/aro by itself make you part of the LGBT+ community? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVEN #1 fan Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I think they are. It's the LGBTTTQIAPD2S+ and the A stands for aces and aros. And yeah this kind of thread is getting old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Ham Radio Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 38 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said: I think they are. It's the LGBTTTQIAPD2S+ and the A stands for aces and aros. And yeah this kind of thread is getting old. What do all the letters stand for in that? And I would say it depends on the individual. Some would consider themselves LGBT+, while others wouldn't. I don't think there is one rule to fit all asexuals and aromantics. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Member4445 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 We aren't LGBT. We're LGBT+ 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_ Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Technically, doesn't the LGBT+ community base itself around all of those who are: 1. heterosexual 2. heteroromantic and/or 3. cisgender? And since asexuality/aromanticism is most definitely not heterosexuality/romanticism, then it should officially be counted as LGBT+. However, if an ace or aro individual does not consider themselves to be in this community, then that is their choice. Otherwise it is LGBT+ 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Galactic Turtle Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I've seen arguments for both, the main argument against being that the ace/aro community is so vast that at least a portion of it looks very "cishet" to people just poking their head in on a situation and there's no like... legal ish going on with us. It's also kind of a different way to look at orientations... kind of like I heard it took the "T" a long time to be added to "LGBT." I'm fine if people consider ace/aros to be LGBT+ but personally I don't associate myself with it. Seems more like this thing in the "other" column. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rynn Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 There have been so many topics on this already. Instead of typing this all up again I'm just going to link to what I think about this: 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVEN #1 fan Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 56 minutes ago, nameinagame said: What do all the letters stand for in that? And I would say it depends on the individual. Some would consider themselves LGBT+, while others wouldn't. I don't think there is one rule to fit all asexuals and aromantics. Lesbians Gays Bi-sexuals/romantics Transgenders Transexuals Transvestites Queer Intersex A-sexuals/romantics Poly/Pan-sexuals/romantics Demi-sexuals/romantics 2-Spirits + 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
veggiebatgirl Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I consider myself LGBT+ because in my mind it simply means not heterosexual AND cisgender. idk???? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Ham Radio Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, AVEN #1 fan said: Lesbians Gays Bi-sexuals/romantics Transgenders Transexuals Transvestites Queer Intersex A-sexuals/romantics Poly/Pan-sexuals/romantics Demi-sexuals/romantics 2-Spirits + Sorry, but what's 2-spirits? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVEN #1 fan Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Just now, nameinagame said: Sorry, but what's 2-spirits? A gender/orientation for native Americans. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVEN #1 fan Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Galactic Turtle said: I've seen arguments for both, the main argument against being that the ace/aro community is so vast that at least a portion of it looks very "cishet" to people just poking their head in on a situation and there's no like... legal ish going on with us. It's also kind of a different way to look at orientations... kind of like I heard it took the "T" a long time to be added to "LGBT." I'm fine if people consider ace/aros to be LGBT+ but personally I don't associate myself with it. Seems more like this thing in the "other" column. How ironical, now the Ts wants to leave the movement for they own good. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andreas1033 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I do not see asexual as lgbt. Even if i was the only asexual on earth, and i was a group of 1, i would still be. I do not need to be in any group, to confirm the way i am. So for me, no, and i do not want to be part of any group. I am me. I am part of no group. But if other asexuals, see themselves as part of some group, of similar people thats fine, but i do not. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Internetlionboy Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I see asexual as LGBT+ because they're not part of heterosexuality/romanticism like @laura_ said. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRexPhilbo Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 I have no real opinion on this. I generally group aros and aces under the LGBTQ umbrella for the sake of simplicity when talking to others about people who aren't heterosexual/romantic, and/or cisgender, but I don't have a formed opinion either way on the political/philosophical side of things because I rarely think about it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Busrider Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 8 hours ago, PixieCat said: Does being ace/aro by itself make you part of the LGBT+ community? IMHO: 20% "yes, for sure" Those 20% aren't the most convenient aspects of being part of the alphabet soup. - Basically I end feeling a strong urge to tell ****ing het cis ****ers to be more tolerant towards other ****ers, while I myself don't care and wouldn't know what I could get out of that community. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alex_ Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) - Edited August 28, 2017 by Alex_ 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iff Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 i think it is a matter for personal identification. some asexuals identify as lgbt+, others don't. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVEN #1 fan Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 On 04/14/2017 at 7:49 AM, Rober said: As i read, if you arent heterosexual + heteroromantic + cisgender, you are LGBT+. So... yeah! Yeah, heterosexual, heteroromantic , cisgender and perisex, I guess monogamous too? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueSaint Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I feel this is a two part question. First, are asexuals/aromantics part of the greater LGBT+/queer community? The simple answer is there is no simple answer. How anyone fits into any community can vary wildly. Just because it is a minority community doesn't mean they can't be exclusionary. All that flows right into the individual politics or desires of the constituents of the community. Look at this way some borders are just lines on a map, existing solely due to people deciding as such. The same can be said for how we bundle people, arbitrarily. The second part is should asexuals/aromantics be part of the greater LGBT+/queer community? In my opinion, yes. Although some asexuals/aromantics don't face the same kind of hardships and legal impediments as other parts of the LGBT+/queer community, some of us do. Plus on an even more base and important level, we need to stand together since we are after the same thing. All the legal challenges LGBT+/queer community engage in aren't as some dismiss as them wanting to be "special snowflakes" or to have "more rights." It is about being recognized and tolerated by society like any other group. Please note I said tolerated and not accepted. That right there is the crux of why we should be in this together. The fight isn't even about us being seen as right, it is about not getting trampled by a reactionary and entrenched power structure. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ace ofSpades Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Personally (as in, this is my opinion) I believe aces and aros should be represented by LGBT+, we are a sexual orientation that can be he recipient of dismissal, ridicule, and misinformed comments. Yes, homosexuals, bisexuals, and transsexuals have taken the brunt of social hate, however, someone else's problems don't minimize out own. On the other hand... its a personal choice whether or not you consider yourself LGBT+. I don't like it when people say aces and aros shouldn't be part of the community because 'they aren't discriminated against,' but also don't like it when people push for me to go and scream 'Rainbow Pride'. In the end it comes down to what you yourself think and how you feel, don't let others force their thoughts on you, its none of their business what you do or think. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pramana Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 My interpretation is that there are significant differences in interests and culture between LGBT and asexual/aromantic communities, and these differences will function to keep them apart. For one, major goals of the gay rights movement have been to attain marriage rights and adoption rights, largely within a framework that assumes romantic sexual relationships as the basic constituent of society. In that regard, homosexual people have more in common with heterosexual people than they do with asexual/aromantic people. Furthermore, the politics and culture of the LGBT community is largely sex positive, and so may not appear to be the most inviting space for asexuals/aromantics. For example, in my experience campus LGBT groups spend much of their time organizing sex info and safer sex events, which has no relevance to my life. That said, my impression is that some asexual/aromantic people can benefit from participation in LGBT communities and vice versa, plus I would say that the communities share certain ethical and political principles. I suspect, though, that the relationship will largely remain an arm's length one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nomiverse Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 In my opinion yes definitely, they're + however it's up to the individual to decide where they belong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DAL Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Actually I would never talk of myself as part of LGBTQ. Because of the way of thinking of orientation and sexuality related issues... I'd feel like segregation is full-on back. But it may be more related to the fact that I identify with "post-gay" too. Everyone's original based on their mind, thoughts and attitude etc.. Those letters are irrelevant. Coz every time you'd think through issues, you'd need to ad more and more letters, probably every single one of the alphabet, several times. And why should it represent ME, it'll always start with LGBTQ anyway.. It's an outdated way of dividing individuals into categories. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Woef Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I always think of the LGBTQ+ community as a group that became a community because people in their are seen as outsiders because of their sexual orientation or gener identity, so basically anyone that isn't cishet. Since homosexuals and transgenders are in the same community, I wouldn't say asexuals do not belong in the community because they are very different from homosexuals. As for the letter soup, that's why I prefer terms like MOGAII or SAGA, because there is no need to constantly update as the terms are already inclusive. However, the term LGBT has gained so much popularity that it would be hard to replace it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PixieCat Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 Recent revelation: My friend only uses the acronym LGBP (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Pan) stating trans people and people with gender identities other than cis face different issues and therefore aren't part of the same community unless they also ID as 'LGBP'. So that's what we're dealing with here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
To Each Their Own Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 We face different problems? Like how our orientation is STILL in the DSM? But if you self-identify as an asexual then you'll be ok. Right? Well, that's a problem because you have know that you are an asexual first...no doctor is going to help you figure that out. They probably don't even know what it is. They are just going to try and "fix" you. That's what happened to me, and who knows how many others like me. When I was younger and failing miserably at being a heterosexual wife, that's when the doctor visits started. There were blood tests, medical scans, shrink visits. I was called "frigid" and my husband started taking what I wasn't willing to give him. The doctors actually blamed ME and said I needed to be a better wife, maybe try masturbating more. I eventually spent four years in that abusive relationship. No, I'm not trying to prove that asexuals are oppressed. I'm simply saying that I have suffered a lot because of lack of self-knowledge. I have been an aromatic asexual my whole life, I just didn't know it. How much suffering can we avert others by educating not just the public, but also professional care providers in general, about asexuality? We literally could be saving people's lives. Whether we educate within the existing LGBT+ scope or not I don't really care - it just needs to be done. I do know that things like the Trevor Project are starting to include asexuality within their scope. I think that's incredible because I believe that knowing that you're asexual when you're young can be just as lifesaving as figureing out that your trans or gay. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Dryad Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I do not classify myself as LGBT+, and I kinda don't agree that asexuality belongs in the classification at all, because we're, for the most part, non-sexuals, and I personally see that that group is for recognizing people who are sexual, but not cis. I understand why aces could be classified as LGBT+, if one says "anything not cis, belongs here", but I personally do not agree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ItsAnAceCase Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Personally, I 100% believe aces and aros are LGBT+ because they are not straight. While aces can be heteromantic and aros can be heterosexual, they still aren't straight. To be classified as straight you would have to be both heterosexual and heteromantic. Aces can be one of these, but not both. Aros can be one of these, but not both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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