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Discomfort in Terminology (potentially tmi)


forgottendreams

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forgottendreams

I'm pretty open about the fact that I'm a libidoist asexual, but there is a very clear dissociation when I am in the mood.  With past partners and potential new partners, I realized that I'm very uncomfortable with the term "lovemaking" when used in the context of sex.  For me, sex and love are completely independent of one another and there's just no overlap, even if I happen to have a love for the other person.  I don't know why I feel like this, but I'm curious if anyone else feels the same.  I know that I'm for sure not broken in a sense, but in a way it kind of feels like I am because I can't feel this loving connection that seems to be implied with the term.

 

I'm curious if this, or any other term, people feel similarly about, or have any ideas on how to remedy the situation to a point of comfort.

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ChillaKilla

I'm an aromantic sexual and I actually agree. It implies that sex is inherently about a romantic connection, and perhaps even necessary for a true romantic bond. We aros and aces can agree on this issue across the board I think.

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TheLastOfSheila

I am pretty unfamiliar with most of the terminology.  It is so vast, it makes my head spin.  So, what exactly is a libidoist asexual?  From your post, it sort of sounds like a person who has sex without emotion, just to satisfy the libido.  Would that be correct?  If so, I am wondering how that also makes one an asexual? 

 

EDIT: Just saw ChillaKilla's reply.  I did not know an aromantic sexual is also considered part of the asexual spectrum?  Or am I reading that wrong?

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ChillaKilla
3 minutes ago, TheLastOfSheila said:

EDIT: Just saw ChillaKilla's reply.  I did not know an aromantic sexual is also considered part of the asexual spectrum?  Or am I reading that wrong?

It isn't but I'm not exactly sure how that's relevant? We're talking about the unpleasant connotations of the word "lovemaking", not whether aros have a say or not.

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forgottendreams

 

5 minutes ago, TheLastOfSheila said:

I am pretty unfamiliar with most of the terminology.  It is so vast, it makes my head spin.  So, what exactly is a libidoist asexual?  From your post, it sort of sounds like a person who has sex without emotion, just to satisfy the libido.  Would that be correct?  If so, I am wondering how that also makes one an asexual? 

 

Basically just clarifying that I do have a libido despite being asexual since there is a spectrum on that as well (on the flip side as an example I know someone who is heterosexual, but with virtually no libido).  I'd say that would be mostly correct.  I simply don't have sexual attraction to anyone, which is where the dissociation comes into play when I am in the mood.

 

EDIT: but yeah we are talking about more sexual terminologies as ChillaKilla said and not the nuances of the definition of asexual/aromantic 

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TheLastOfSheila
21 minutes ago, forgottendreams said:

 

 

Basically just clarifying that I do have a libido despite being asexual since there is a spectrum on that as well (on the flip side as an example I know someone who is heterosexual, but with virtually no libido).  I'd say that would be mostly correct.  I simply don't have sexual attraction to anyone, which is where the dissociation comes into play when I am in the mood.

 

Thanks for your reply, forgottendreams.  I am not at all trying to be confrontational, but just trying to understand.  I know the way I write sometimes comes off a little too strong, sorry if it did once again.  Of course, I agree totally that sex does not equal love. So what you meant then is that you experience libido, but chose not to act upon it because you do not experience sexual attraction to others?  Or that you are sexually active, but because of the false implications of the term "lovemaking", you emotionally disassociate when you have sex with someone?  As a heterosexual with no libido (like the person you mentioned earlier), I consider myself an asexual because I have no desire for sex, not even with myself. 

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forgottendreams
1 hour ago, TheLastOfSheila said:

Thanks for your reply, forgottendreams.  I am not at all trying to be confrontational, but just trying to understand.  I know the way I write sometimes comes off a little too strong, sorry if it did once again.  Of course, I agree totally that sex does not equal love. So what you meant then is that you experience libido, but chose not to act upon it because you do not experience sexual attraction to others?  Or that you are sexually active, but because of the false implications of the term "lovemaking", you emotionally disassociate when you have sex with someone?  As a heterosexual with no libido (like the person you mentioned earlier), I consider myself an asexual because I have no desire for sex, not even with myself. 

No worries!  I know that especially over the internet as well things can come across as more confrontational than intended as well, but it's all good (: It's not necessarily that I choose not to act upon it.  I did put potentially tmi in the title, so I will explain a little bit more.  I do masturbate.  But, one of the reasons that I began identifying as asexual was that my friends and I sometimes have a thing we do where we just ask each other very personal questions and it's kind of a trust thing that doesn't leave the room.  One of the questions that I was asked was "what do you think about when you masturbate?" and it made me stop and think for a moment because my answer is nothing.  I am very emotionally engaged with people, but the dissociation is within myself such that I cannot visualize myself in the act, in my head or otherwise.  I basically, become a different person, but that person still does not have a sexual attraction to the partner.  More tmi, my sexual nature is that which is more rough and even centered around role playing, tying back to the dissociation.

 

So tying this back together to keep completely on topic, the term "lovemaking" is really uncomfortable for me because it generally implies something very sensual and gentle and very personal, while that's not something that I can do with the independency of sex and love in my mind, and feeling like "lovemaking" is necessary for genuine romantic love feels very damaging in a way because it's not something that I feel I could provide, even if I want to.

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3 hours ago, forgottendreams said:

I'm pretty open about the fact that I'm a libidoist asexual, but there is a very clear dissociation when I am in the mood.  With past partners and potential new partners, I realized that I'm very uncomfortable with the term "lovemaking" when used in the context of sex.  For me, sex and love are completely independent of one another and there's just no overlap, even if I happen to have a love for the other person.  I don't know why I feel like this, but I'm curious if anyone else feels the same.  I know that I'm for sure not broken in a sense, but in a way it kind of feels like I am because I can't feel this loving connection that seems to be implied with the term.

 

I'm curious if this, or any other term, people feel similarly about, or have any ideas on how to remedy the situation to a point of comfort.

Sex is a like riding a tandem bike. You need to keep your balance and rhythm in sync with the other person or everything goes to hell. You don't need love to ride a tandem bike.

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fern with leaves

yeah, we get this narrative out of both popular culture and a lot of psychological academia, right, that sex is a necessary value for romantic love.  i had never thought about the term "lovemaking", although I have also found it uncomfortable.  like when i've been in compromise relationships (something I'm not keen to try again soon), definitely feels like there is a major disconnect on the place of sex.  I guess some aces still derive a sense of connection/romance from sex?  I've always found it totally extraneous to my romance.

3 hours ago, forgottendreams said:

 in a way it kind of feels like I am [broken] because I can't feel this loving connection that seems to be implied with the term.

^this.  i connect with this statement a lot.

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forgottendreams
7 minutes ago, aeimquy159 said:

Sex is a like riding a tandem bike. You need to keep your balance and rhythm in sync with the other person or everything goes to hell. You don't need love to ride a tandem bike.

Oh I have no doubts about this, but I'm referring to the implications of the term "lovemaking."

 

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1 minute ago, forgottendreams said:

Oh I have no doubts about this, but I'm referring to the implications of the term "lovemaking."

 

I had a partner that hated the term "making love". I used bang instead but apparently that was too far in the other direction. I agree that lovemaking makes an erroneous connection between sex and love.  I could never say it even to someone I loved, its just an awkward term. I refer to sex as sex, it's safe when you first start dating someone. Other than lovemaking I can't think of another term for sex that makes me as uncomfortable.

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scarletlatitude

SAME. I hate that term. I get that it's a safer way to say "sex" (like in front of kids) but I HATE that it is equating sex with love. 

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First off I relate to you so much. We might be in a similar gray area. Secondly referring to sex as "making love" makes me gag. Aside from it sounding corny why does "making love" = sex  ? 

 

Does that mean you cant build a loving connection without sex? If someone says thats not what it suggests, then why isnt cuddling considered making love? 

 

Im not too hung up on it but interesting how cultural/societal views are imprinted in our language

 

 

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Ace ♠ At ♠ Archery

I'm so glad I found this topic, I completely agree. You need to love someone to cuddle and kiss them and be romantically attracted to them, you don't need to love someone to have sex with them. Making love sounds better referring to cuddling and kissing.

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This thread really caught my interest as I found myself thinking about it the whole time I worked out today :P

 

The term 'lovemaking' doesn't bother me, but I think that is because I've only heard it as a "wink, wink, you know what I mean but I can't say." It's like calling your butt a 'bum' in front of your grandma; it's a stupid expression, but we're being polite to sensitive ears.

 

What does bother me is the term 'making love,' which seems awful nit-picky, but I do think it's because I've heard that said seriously. I suppose if it was said in that "wink, wink" way then it wouldn't bug me though. But if not, love can be expressed in so many other ways, why does sex get to claim the word?

 

So, I suppose for me, it's a "not what you say but how you say it" for the term :P You can say it, but if you expect me to take you seriously when you do, prepare for an eye roll.

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SamwiseLovesLife

The term 'sex' doesn't bother me (Nor does 'sexy time' :P

What makes me cringe are words used to relate to other people like "we should make love tonight"/"I fucked her"/"Let's bump uglies" <--- Seriously, WHO thought of this one??

It's like with masterbation. That term doesn't offend me in the slightest but as soon as someone says "Pulling the chicken"/"Flicking the bean"/"Wanking" I just want to throw up. I feel like I need to wash my hands just typing them D:

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dragon_nerd
3 hours ago, SamwiseLovesLife said:

The term 'sex' doesn't bother me (Nor does 'sexy time' :P

What makes me cringe are words used to relate to other people like "we should make love tonight"/"I fucked her"/"Let's bump uglies" <--- Seriously,

I get the same thing! I am fine with sex in a clinical way but sexualisation makes me want to be sick. 

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chair jockey

The biological, reproductive element of sexual love is as follows:

 

1) It's scary to think about becoming pregnant with no resources to survive pregnancy and raise the baby, and no help from anyone in doing so. Sexual love helps allay that fear and make mating possible because it binds the partner and causes him to stick around to help with the baby.

 

2) In some species, upon ejaculating during penile-vaginal intercourse, there is attachment to the partner as a potential supply of regular ejaculation opportunities in the future. Sexual love binds the partner and makes opportunities for ejaculation routinely available.

 

So "lovemaking" refers to the manifestation of a biological function that relates to sexual partners staying together, either to secure reproductive resources or to obtain a regular supply of sex. The feeling of "love" during "lovemaking" is very real to quite a few sexual people.

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ChillaKilla
1 hour ago, chair jockey said:

The feeling of "love" during "lovemaking" is very real to quite a few romantic sexual people.

FTFY

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MissDemeanour69

THIS!

I've been struggling to try and explain to my partner the disconnect I get when I just want perfunctory sex because libido. I don't always feel this way about sex but probably 90% of the time I do. The other 10% is me wanting to be as close as humanly possible and connected to him and sex is enjoyable for that, however that's something that developed once we got together. 

Because of this, I don't like having the disconnected libido sex with him because it feels insulting? I don't know how to explain this and it feels like it's a silly thing to feel but because I have this amazing romantic relationship and vested interest in him, the wham-bam doesn't feel like it belongs there :/

If that makes any sense, has anyone felt similar or have any advice? Thank you!

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SithAzathoth WinterDragon

For the first thing I've never been sexual as in pleasuring anyone and I never want to try sex, however for those who have it, I've heard them use the term of "lovemaking" in my view I see it as kissing and cuddling but not sex itself, I have no idea why people see it this way but it's just how some see it and I have no problem with it.

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