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Distressed, so much confusion over sexuality!!


CrownFireDaylily

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CrownFireDaylily

Hi everyone!

 

I want to preface this by saying that sexuality is really freaking scary for me to talk about. I believe this is the safest place I've found to talk about it and I really want an open dialog with those of you who can relate, but maybe just keep in mind that I'm a little fragile in this area? That might sound like an instant "go to therapy" flag...and I have for years! Maybe I just didn't see the "right" therapists, but they usually did more damage (none of them ever used any of the "definitions" on this site). I walked away feeling even more ashamed, alone, and "broken". Someone posted a YouTube link to "sexplanations"--thank you SO much! If there are more good videos/books, I would appreciate recommendations! Ok, on to the description of my struggles (I don't think there's a trigger warning? Sex was always consensual...if not exactly"desired").

 

I come from a "no sex before marriage background", where sex was such a forbidden subject that I really didn't know anything about it and never really had any desire to find out. I experienced romantic attraction and I guess it just didn't occur to me that there was more than making out, cuddling, limited messing around (clearly I was very sheltered!). So when I had my first boyfriend around age 18, I thought that sexual curiosity (and pressure from him) meant we had to get married. Probably not a shock that it was quite possibly the most horrific two years of my life. After several bad initial experiences that led to extreme fear, I didn't ever want to have sex again--but he did--and everyone in my community at the time (including therapists) basically told me that it was my duty as a wife/I shouldn't say no/loads of shame and guilt. I "know" now that none of that is true, but it's had lasting effects. During that time I would kind of "check out" during sex/pretend that I was someone else. I almost feel like sex became a language and I learned how to speak it, if that makes sense? I didn't really want to become fluent, but now I am. The line feels kind of blurred. I can slip into that language/alternate "sexy" person almost without fully realizing it.

 

Fast forward to the years after my divorce--I was so sure something was wrong with me that I just kept pretending. I thought I would just have to deal with sex in order to be loved. Sometimes I didn't feel all that bad about it. Other times I felt like I was disrespecting myself and border lining on some super bizarre form of semi-prostitution. Sex as payment for "love". I've had some boyfriends that I enjoyed being intimate with (to varying degrees) and I've had others that always wanted more than I truly wanted to give and of course that earned a whole host of other issues. It's always been a slippery slope :( I've tried to allow myself to experiment some and I think I've had some positive experiences? Sometimes I enjoy sex (there I said it! And now I'm crying...), but I always feel this nagging sense of guilt/shame afterwards like I've done something "bad/wrong/dirty", to the point where I really would rather not have sex so I don't feel ashamed later. I have tried *can't emphasize enough* (beats head against wall) to work on this issue. Heal the "root cause", work through the beliefs that were so strongly re-enforced during my upbringing (beliefs I don't feel are true), tell myself there's nothing wrong with enjoying sex (even nothing wrong with having sex with a partner I love, just because I genuinely want to give them pleasure). But that feeling is always there on some level. I stumbled on the Asexuality spectrum and I think it makes a lot of sense in many ways, but there's also the "trauma" aspect from my marriage and years of conditioning. I'm so tired and frustrated! There's the possibility that I'm starting "something" with someone who knows about my background and wants to make sure I feel comfortable/that I'm also enjoying the experience, but he is sexual. He's said "no expectations", but I'm struggling to accept that and not feel the familiar panic that I need to do certain things. I'm the one putting the pressure on myself. I honestly don't know how to un-learn it. Help?? And what if I want to have sex and try things? What if it's fun and allows us to bond/create emotional trust in the process...holy crap what is even happening? And if I go down that road how do I send that shame/guilt demon back to hades? What if I try things and then decide, nope, I'm good! Will I have just created yet another round of damage that I'll have to work on (plus possibly hurt the guy, who is "innocent" in this situation). I'm not sure if these questions are super basic and most people worked through them when they were much younger or I'm a ultra special level of "she's got issues". I'm 30 now and am a very self aware person in all other aspects of my life, so this confusion/pain/feeling afraid to even talk about this...it really throws me into chaos. I've put so much work into healing my relationship with my self, my body, building self care and self esteem. I've made so much progress! Why am I stuck?! Is there anyone who understands or has been here?

 

 I think to complicate matters (there's more?!) I have pretty deep feelings for my best friend who's gay (and unaware of how I feel). I plan to keep it that way, as I know I can never be the right partner for him and I would never want to risk our friendship, but it's *really* difficult sometimes. I'm trying to love him for who he is and I want him to be happy above all else * more messy feelings alert*. We've been friends for years, so this is by no means a new issue but I think as I'm finally allowing myself to openly explore my sexuality (in concept and maybe in action?) I'm realizing that it does have an impact. Especially when I'm in a relationship or thinking about starting one/dating...like with the guy from above ^. I want to see where that leads, but I feel embarrassed/stupid/?? and I don't feel like I can talk to either one of them about it. Maybe it's ok to have a deep "soul mate" kind of connection with a friend and also have a "romantic" partner? Somehow that feels like cheating or something along those lines. I have a very hard time allowing things to be "fluid" or not really clearly defined when it comes to relationships, even though the rest of my life seriously doesn't fit in the "typical" boxes. I don't know if anyone else has been through this/would feel comfortable sharing how you have found a way to honor yourself and your friend? 

 

So that's a lot!! If there's anyone who feels like tackling some or all of it, I would be really grateful to hear your insight. Thank you for taking the time to listen! 

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Comrade F&F

Oh goodness, here. *offers cake and hugs*

 

I too grew up with the 'no sex until marriage'. I'm happy with that, even if an abstinence lifestyle hid the reality of my asexuality. Since I don't actively seek it out, my knowledge of sex is extremely limited, but I'll do my best to offer some insight.

 

First off, there is nothing wrong about you. You're a great and wonderful person, and the things that happened will need a lot of time to heal. If you don't want to be pushed into it, then don't force yourself into it. If you're not sure, it's okay. This sort of thing takes time.

 

Sex isn't meant to be withheld because it's sinful or wrong to have desires - that's human. It's not your fault for being human. Abstaining from sex is done because it's meant to be the most intimate, sincerest gift one can give to their partner. It means 'I trust you'. When it's held with that high regard, that trust can only be received with love. You're not dirty or wrong, no. You're hurting.

 

I know there are individuals who want to have fun and explore, and that's okay. But there are also individuals who hold sex as something very intimate. That's okay too.

 

Take your time. I can't offer any more than these words, and my support for you. I hope what I say will help.

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First off, do not worry about being nervous to talk about your sexuality. It is deeply personal and when you don't fit into any of the "boxes" your family or mainstream society or whoever influences your life provides, it can really make you feel confused and ostracized. And not all therapists know everything about sexuality so they may be just as unclear on the subject as you are. Therapists are great of exploring yourself, so I am glad you are doing it though it sounds like some therapists have seriously let you down, I hope you can find better ones. I am also glad you are seeking other resources to help you explore yourself too, I am sure it will pay off in the long run.

 

You have been through so much, if there is one thing I wish I could do for you it would be to just have you take a deep breath and know that everything you are feeling is understandable, ok, and possible to handle. It makes sense that you are so stressed after having had so much happen to you, that is perfectly reasonable. Take your time to learn about yourself and be ok with who you are, it's worth it, you are worth it.

 

I do want to impress upon you that you never have to have sex unless you want to. You mentioned that you enjoyed it, great! That is fine and you could pursue it if you like it. However, it is not something you are obligated to do with anyone. You never owe anyone sex and can say no whenever you want. I fully understand that you have internalized the opposite so a stranger on the internet isn't about to completely change your mindset, but hopefully hearing it and working through your troubles with that in mind might eventually help you see that.

 

As for your relationships, feelings are confusing and hard. I get that you like you gay friend, but for your sake and his you need to make peace with the fact that you won't be getting together. If he is gay, it's not going to happen. It sucks, I have had crushes on gay guys too, but it's best for you to find a way to move on. If it means you need to step away from him for a while, that might be wise. You say you feel like you are cheating; there is a concept called emotionally cheating. That is when you go outside your romantic relationship to get emotional support that you should be going to your partner for. If you are fully dedicated to a romantic relationship, you need to be there mind and soul, so using your friend for those emotional needs isn't dedicating yourself to you partner. Now, you can and should seek emotional support outside relationships when needed. It can be very important to get outside perspective. It's a bit tricky sometimes and that's why it's good that you recognize when you feel like you are cheating. You can go with your gut as to when you might go too far.

 

You are very self aware and smart, you are doing an awesome thing by trying to do find answers and do your research. I wish you so much luck on your journey, I am sure with all this work you are doing you will keep growing. If you need more support that AVEN can give, I am sure you will always find people here willing to provide.

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arekathevampyre

Honestly speaking I am unsure of what to tell you . But let me recommend you a book called "Ace and Proud" by A.K. Andrews . It is a very good book about people of different backgrounds , ages and gender realising that they are ace and NOT BROKEN . I think most of the peeps on aven heard of it . You can ask them if you are unsure . And really , there is not need to do the sexy stuff to prove that you love someone . :)

hope this helps 

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CrownFireDaylily

Thank you SO much for all of your replies and perspectives! I really appreciate the support!

 

I think I'm realizing just how much I need the space to explore *not* feeling like I'm required to have sex. It almost feels like a return to baseline (or as close as I can get to it). Maybe I'll decide to stay there and be perfectly content? I think I need to build that safety for myself. There's a lot of self forgiveness I need to do too, even though none of it was my fault. It's a complicated path to trace! Maybe it has multiple threads and I'm discovering new ones, like some form of asexuality that may be a factor to look into. Thank you for the book recommendation--I'm going to go look for it right now :) 

 

You all are amazing! 

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😨 What kind of therapist says you owe your partner sex??!? A (backwards) religious one??

 

This guilt after sex, does it only happen shortly after sex? (Enjoyment and desire are two different things, but just making sure.) Despite being able to enjoy sex you don't desire sex, correct? Not even after foreplay?

 

Maybe a sexual abuse therapist can help with your issues (not asexuality). And yes, it's perfectly fine (and very healthy) to not require everything from your partner/ have a soul mate bff and a romantic partner. And it's not cheating, it just looks "too close for safety" to alot of people because that's how society has constructed relationships now, but it wasn't like that too long ago and having both was normal.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If the repulsion just happens after sex then it's actually very common.

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CrownFireDaylily

So I'm not used to talking about this openly--still really new for me--it's not easy to pin down entirely. If I was in a relationship with someone and he wanted to cuddle/hold hands/make out some/even go as far as taking a bath together...all of that would be within relatively comfortable limits for me and I think with someone I really trusted, I would enjoy all of those things. If he never initiated anything more than that, I would be *thrilled*. Perfect relationship (physically! Emotionally I look for a lot more!). I would really like my body to be gender neutral if that was possible (I know it sort of is, but I'm not in a place in my life where that would make sense for a variety of reasons). I don't feel hatred for my female organs and I don't really feel repulsion when it comes to anyone else's (male or female). I'm an artist and used to be a dancer. I guess I just see the human form and I see it more as raw material that could be used to create a story through light and shadow or movement--express ideas and emotions. Sure, most people also use their bodies for sex, but I don't really see the appeal when I feel content with some physical contact and connection on an emotional/mental level.

 

BUT...that's not how I was raised. You're correct--the worst shrinks I saw would be the "backward religious ones" (I'd like to think that they aren't all that way and that I just didn't meet any? I can't know I guess.). I've fought with anxiety/depression/body image issues for over half my life and usually therapists would focus on those issues and didn't even talk about my sexuality or sexual background, which I find to be pretty weird and distressing! Sure seems important to me when trying to help a young woman who hates her body! I'm pretty neutral now/like it as much as I like other bodies/can appreciate it and take care of it, but I got there on my own. After all the damage therapists did, I'm *terrified* to ever see one again. Two places I don't see myself going voluntarily anytime soon: therapy or church, but those are different topics for another post.

 

Trying to answer your question(s)--I don't think I desire sex? But I was very afraid of being abandoned by my family or that my ex husband would harm me or one of my pets if I didn't have sex with him. That was over ten years ago, but I was stuck in that place of extreme fear for two years before it ended/I got out. I didn't really know what to do other than to disassociate and pretend to be someone else who enjoyed sex. At first I had panic attacks (along with a host of other really intense psychological issues), but eventually it got to be something I just had to do. In relationships after that, I thought the same "rules" applied/that no one would ever love me if I didn't have sex with them so I just kept it up. I had varying degrees of guilt/shame and almost anything sexual could sort of flip that switch into "alternate human mode", where I would sort of check out and pretend to be whatever I thought the guy wanted me to be (that sounds so horrible and it was, but I guess I also told myself I had to do it, so...it wasn't *always* horrible? I guess sometimes it could just be a task I had to complete...that left me with some level of shame/guilt...although sometimes I could minimize that if the guy seemed really into it and I could feel some level of success?? I had made him happy so he probably wasn't going to dump me and that made me feel safe?? He thought I was hot and that made me feel semi good about myself when I hated my own body??). I don't know if it's possible to build up a tolerance to sex, but I guess I wonder if that's kind of what I did? So there were times with certain people where it was kind of enjoyable on some level, because I really loved the person I was with or something about the situation was awkward or "human" and we laughed a lot (which felt like connection/intimacy to me). I had never thought of sexual arousal as being a purely physical response or a conditioned response, but I guess I'm questioning if that's what I can technically feel when prompted? I've had boyfriends who wanted to know what I wanted in bed and I never knew what to tell them. Umm...to not be in bed in the first place like this?? Couldn't they just tell me what they wanted so I could keep them happy and get this over with?? With certain partners that devolved into me crying and basically telling them I didn't want to be in the middle of sex at all--they typically decided something was "wrong" with me at that point and I needed to go to therapy for my "issues" or have my hormones checked (or both!!) because they were certain that no healthy woman would just not want to have sex. And that message was just echoed everywhere I went. It's difficult to separate out how I feel from what was expected/what I thought I needed to do in order to protect myself/my pets (basically my kids ha!)...and then what I had to do to be loved (when I was really struggling with loving myself and didn't have very loving, supportive people in my life at the time). Now, I've done so much work and am trying to tease it all apart and ask myself how I really feel and what I really want. I think when I'm in a sexual situation, the repulsion/guilt/gross feeling starts from the beginning, but I've trained myself to repress it so that I'm split in two. I think my voice gets really quiet and if I could amplify it, then it would be saying stop (almost all of the time). When sexy time is over, then I can "be myself" again vs. acting like I'm acting in a porn shoot or something and all the repulsion hits full blast/full volume. That makes the most sense to me/feels the most true. I *think* maybe with a partner who I really trusted (Yeah, I hear myself *ugh*! Why would this wonderful partner want me to force myself to have sex with him in the first place if he knew how bad it makes me feel?)...to finish that kinda questionable thought for a person who loves and respects herself: I *might* be able to keep making myself have sex on a very minimal basis IF I somehow felt like I had met my soulmate and he really understood...maybe that "fake" persona could still enjoy some part of it and I would deal with the shame/repulsion. That doesn't sound worth it to me, but I guess I'm trying to not be closed minded? That was a name I was called pretty frequently that made me feel bad about myself. Could it just be that I finally found out what I like in bed--yeah that would be cake and a movie with cuddling and no sexy bed time!! 

 

I feel very alone trying to figure this out, even though there are so many people on this site and I know many of you have gone through something similar or are trying to figure out similar things. It's scary to question things and to discover that I was doing the best I could with the information/safety level I had at the time, but that I might not be who I thought I was OR that it's ok for me to be someone different (*I wish that I knew what I know now...when I was younger*). That makes me angry, makes me cry, makes me want to go back and shield "past me". I'm trying to feel these things and let them be--I'm allowed. Whatever I feel, whatever I don't feel, whatever I want or don't want, however I end up deciding I identify--I'm allowed. But I'm in tears right now just thinking that, because some people that I love wouldn't accept certain end versions of me. A little bit earlier I got in a debate with my mother (due to a chronic physical illness I still live at home because I don't have enough money to live on my own right now) and she "accepts" me being asexual because nothing "sexual" is happening...she would accept me kissing/cuddling with a guy, but thinks that if I did the same with a woman or heaven forbid (quite literally, she is armed with religious verses!) I married a woman--then that would not be so cool with her (or with my father I'm assuming)...oh and with God of course. If anything sexual outside of marriage was happening--same deal! I still have a tentative belief in God and it's been bringing me some meaning/comfort lately. I just don't see how a loving God would be furious with me if I decided that I didn't want to be alone for the rest of my life and so I was going to have a same sex relationship or any relationship where I wasn't married for that matter! (I should insert here that I really am pretty certain that I'm only attracted to guys, as much as I wish I could change that because I think I would have a better chance of finding what I'm looking for with a woman, but...I've never had a crush on a woman or felt like I wanted to cuddle with any of my platonic girl friends? So I'm pretty sure that means I'm stuck with men...which basically means I'm going to fill my life with cats! There are worse things!). But that illustrates how much it hurts to even openly consider these things and how scary it is. I could lose my home/safety/access to medical care/pets/family *if* I ever felt same sex attraction and acted on it or if my parents found out about any relationship that didn't fit within their very strict model (I know I'm in a bad living situation--I'm just stuck for now...at age 30. It's super fun!). Just trying to allow myself the freedom to explore being Ace has felt like a big risk, but so far it feels "right" and like I'm finally finding myself (although I wrote you a novel in response to simple questions, so clearly I'm still working it through).

 

Thank you for reading/listening if you made it this far! And thanks for caring and asking questions, being supportive, and allowing me to have this space. I appreciate you all <3 

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Wow, what a post. You really have dug deep here, it's impressive how much thought you put in and how you have recognized that certain patterns of thinking aren't helping you. That's great! That means you can move past them, even if they still exist you can know when they crop up that they aren't what's true and can move on to better ways of thinking.

 

In my personal opinion, which you needn't heed, I think it would benefit you greatly to step away from relationships for a while and just focus on you and what you want. If you are having difficulty figuring out how you feel because of expectations of others, then take away the expectations. What do you become when you aren't doing what others expect? Indulge that part of you, figure her out. Let yourself just be you.

 

1 hour ago, CrownFireDaylily said:

I'm trying to feel these things and let them be--I'm allowed. Whatever I feel, whatever I don't feel, whatever I want or don't want, however I end up deciding I identify--I'm allowed.

I think this is the most important sentence. It's so true, you are absolutely valid and what ever you feel is allowed to be felt.

 

One thing I will caution you with is your view on men. Remember they are all people and the thing about people is that some are bad, some are good, many are in between, and all are human. If they haven't treated you well in the bedroom, it's not because they feel any animosity towards you, I am sure they just haven't ever met anyone who is doesn't desire sex (at least, no one who has told them they don't) so they are acting in confusion. That sucks because it feels like a personal attack, but remember that anything anyone says about you says more about them than about you. They live in a head space where everyone wants sex and to protect that headspace they feel the need to negate your feelings. They don't necessarily do so maliciously, they are just trying, like we all are, to make sense of their world based on what they have learned. I'm also not saying that behavior is ok or justified, but I can't change what they did, I can only talk to you and try to help you move past it.

 

Regardless of that history, there are some really, really good guys out there. People you click with, relationship-wise OR friendship-wise, are hard to find, so don't let a few bad men speak for all men. You certainly wouldn't want a few bad women speaking for you!

 

1 hour ago, CrownFireDaylily said:

Just trying to allow myself the freedom to explore being Ace has felt like a big risk, but so far it feels "right" and like I'm finally finding myself

This makes me so happy, I am so glad you feel like you have found answers and are exploring yourself in a good way. I hope you can continue to do so and that AVEN can always be a good resource for you!

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Hey there!

Wow, you have been through so much! :( I am sorry you had to go through all this. Caedsexual might work for you - someone who experienced sexual attraction in the past but doesn't anymore due to trauma. You could also call yourself hetero-romantic since you feel attraction towards the opposite gender, no matter how they identify (?).

I do hope this helped in any way! Take care! ^_^ 

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Specifying why is pointless. Asexual is asexual, there's no need to create another whole sexuality for it. No one does this trigger happy label creating for any other orientation; e.g. bi people who have trauma toward one gender and thus only go out with the other gender and identify as gay/straight.

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