Butch in the Bathroom

[Chorvus]

It's been a little while; I took a sort of hiatus.

 

Anyway, I'm a young AFAB adult (probably cis, but who knows) who tends to dress and present in a rather masculine way. I don't do anything to disguise my voice, but I am rather tall, have short hair, a sort of square jaw, wide shoulders and what becomes an almost-negligible chest in looser clothes. 

 

I am frequently mistaken for male. That doesn't bother me. What does bother me is when it becomes clear that women using the same restroom as me are upset, concerned, frightened, or uncomfortable with my presence. I don't intend to bother anyone with the way I dress; it's for my comfort and personal aesthetic only. However, I understand all too well the apprehension women feel when entering a space that is made for them only to find someone who doesn't code as "woman". I don't want to discredit this negative reaction because I understand it very well myself. 

 

I find that I tend to try and emphasize "feminine" attributes whenever anyone else enters the women's restroom; stick out my chest, tilt my hips out, etc. This is done for the benefit of those entering; to allow them to realize I am "actually also a woman", so that their initial response to seeing a masculine person in their bathroom is replaced with a relieved "oh, it actually is a woman!" These actions make me pretty uncomfortable though; I'm super aware that I'm acting, and it feels deceitful and wrong to have to change how I exist for the benefit of others.

 

I'm not entirely sure what to do about this issue. On the one hand, I am not comfortable with presenting in a more feminine way, and would absolutely love for people to simply ignore me.  On the other, I am not comfortable with making other women uncomfortable. I do not want to bother these people at all.

 

I have briefly considered using the men's restroom. In all honesty, I have no idea what would happen to me there. I think it would be similar to my current situation, except that I would try to project more "masculine" qualities if I weren't alone. So... more acting. Additionally, I don't feel right using a bathroom that doesn't correspond to my gender OR sex.

 

I would, ideally, just be able to use family restrooms or other gender-neutral ones. Unfortunately these are in short supply.

 

I don't really know what I'm hoping to get as a response. Perhaps similar stories?

 

EDIT: I use the word 'butch' with this definition "having an appearance or other qualities of a type traditionally seen as masculine". I suppose it's entirely possible people assume I'm a lesbian, so let's not discount that, but my intention in using the word was to make it clear that I present in a masculine way and use women's restrooms.

[SithAzathoth WinterDragon]

I am female and consider myself female but I  do not dress so feminine either, the more I look into things the more I wonder..... I never had any woman give me looks before for how I dress. Lets say if you played a dress and a kilt for me to choose from, I'd choose the kilt to wear, I dress sometimes in a great while might dress nicely but not very often. I have however been pondering for the last 2 days, so it seems we both might be looking for answers we want answered. I feel more comfortable using the women restroom as well, I just hate that I should be expected to dress like one. So honestly I really can not help you as much as I want to.

[Grumpy Alien]

I never understand why anyone would even care.

[Scottthespy]

Unfortunately, I don't think there's much you can do here that isn't going to make SOME one feel uncomfortable...most people would tell you to not care what other people think, if these women want to be so neurotic as to automatically assume you are A) a male in a female space and B) there for nefarious reasons, just based on your clothes, then let them stew in their own imaginary suffering that they built for themselves all on their own.

 

However, I know how it feels to be conscious of your effect on others and be empathetic enough to want to minimize stress that is related to you, even if you didn't actually cause it. I would say...the best thing to do is to strike a balance between doing feminine things and letting them be weird. You could try meeting people's eyes when they stare or otherwise seem uncomfortable around you, smile, and say "Hi there." If you don't disguise your voice, it might be enough to mark you as female. If you don't mind humming, you could try that...low key humming to yourself as you enter, wash your hands, and exit. A calm smile and demeanor can often assure people that you are supposed to be where you are and doing what you are doing. I've had guys race into a bathroom I was cleaning and go ahead and start using the urinal, because they didn't realize I was a girl. Because I'm in there and I don't seem nervous, I obviously belong. 

 

Try to find a balance that makes you feel better about the situation...one where you're doing SOMETHING to help these women realize their assumptions are incorrect and their fear is unwarranted, but you aren't putting on a super fake act and feeling disingenuous. Failing that, either remind yourself that it's not your job to look out for other gown women's phobias, OR keep doing the act and remind yourself that you aren't doing it to trick any one, you're doing it to save them some stress...its like a little white lie, like telling gramma you LOVE the sweater she spent weeks knitting for you...even though you actually hate pink and will never wear it outside of her house.

[Busrider]

2 hours ago, Chorvus said:

I have briefly considered using the men's restroom. In all honesty, I have no idea what would happen to me there.

Dunno. - Haven't been to the women's. I have been to the men's in clubs with an endless queue in front of the other, where some cis gals simply thought "sod it" and entered ours. - Personally I don't mind. - At festivals or a dorm where I used to crash in and the camping facility where I spent my last vacations they didn't do gender separation. At the dorm inofficially, since it was built as unisex barracks ages ago and the way to the gender appropriate bathroom would have been too long and inconvenient.

 

We use the urinals covering ourselves against glimpses, have our ethics to seek / grant as much privacy as possible, i.e. leave surplus individual urinals vacant between each other and if it really comes to standing around inside a rest room it is folks waiting for a cabin looking at those doors.

Everybody else tries to leave ASAP. Somebody might wash hands. Sometimes (rarely) folks clean teeth & dentures / need mirrors to mess with their contact lenses / pop pimples / shave (in train stations' & similar).

Maybe Europe is more laid back? - IDK.

 

Would cursing the queue help? or is it an ethical no no?

[Chorvus]

8 hours ago, Graceful said:

I never understand why anyone would even care.

A lot of women care, and it seems a lot of men wouldn't be thrilled about finding out someone in their restroom is female.

 

In the former case; a male stranger in an unexpected place? Time to remember every piece of news about women being followed or otherwise harassed by unknown men.

 

In the latter; from what I've read, I don't know whether I myself would feel safe, as threatening violence against people who are "lying" about what they are seems to be a common idea.

 

I don't think it SHOULD be such an issue... but it is.

[Chorvus]

8 hours ago, Scottthespy said:

let them stew in their own imaginary suffering that they built for themselves all on their own.

I understand what you're saying, but I'd like to point out that fear of strange men in unexpected places is something women are conditioned to feel. I don't think their emotional response is invalid.

 

 

The humming would probably help.

[Chorvus]

5 hours ago, Busrider said:

Would cursing the queue help? or is it an ethical no no?

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to suggest here.

[Busrider]

3 hours ago, Chorvus said:

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to suggest here.

I assume you open a bathroom's door, expecting the sight of a vacant stall and see a line of gals in front of you waiting for the same event. Uttering a 4-letter word of choice seems natural and could destroy your misleading gender expression.

[Chorvus]

1 hour ago, Busrider said:

I assume you open a bathroom's door, expecting the sight of a vacant stall and see a line of gals in front of you waiting for the same event. Uttering a 4-letter word of choice seems natural and could destroy your misleading gender expression.

Is your suggestion to swear at others in restrooms?

[Lucinda]

I believe the suggestion was to say something so people would hear a female voice.  Singing or humming could work too.

 

Lucinda

[LeChat]

When I was 11, a middle-aged woman told me to use the boy's restroom, twice, when I didn't obey her the first time because I was confused why she was telling me that, just because I had short hair, even though I was wearing a purple and pink brightly colored t-shirt and had already used my voice beforehand, to apologize to her mother when I opened a restroom stall door that was unlocked and she was using it.

 

This was in a rural state park, where it wasn't practical to hike in a dress or wear makeup. The weather was usually very windy in that state, and I never saw grown women wear dresses there until my family moved to the south, where the weather was warmer and not as windy.

 

Also, it was normal for my fellow female peers at my middle school to not wear makeup or dresses, either; they looked like tomboys, too, wearing baggy t-shirts, sweatshirts and jeans, and didn't care that I didn't appear ultra-feminine, nor were they afraid of me using the restroom. So, it confused me and hurt a lot when that older woman sternly told me to leave, twice. I was a tomboy, but I wasn't trying to look male: I thought my brightly colored clothing would be an obvious signal to other women that I was a female like them, but even that wasn't good enough for them in the south, even when I grew out my hair. No, they still felt like laughing and gossiping to their friends, "That's a girl? I thought that was a guy!" or staring at me whenever I entered restrooms.

 

My mother said it's because I don't wear 10 pounds of makeup like they do (I don't wear any at all), that causes women and males to either laugh and think I'm male, or stare at me as though I'm strange or suspicious. I think it's also because they're more used to seeing women with blonde hair than dark hair.

 

I'm shorter than most woman, and everyone still says, "I thought you were a teenager," so I've never understood why women who are taller than me still appeared to be frightened of me, giving me an apprehensive glance or look; it'd make sense to me if I were taller than them, but I'm not. I used to worry, constantly, that another woman might tell me to leave the restroom, again, but now, I don't bother being a people pleaser, anymore, just to make other women feel comfortable; no one goes out of their way to do the same for me, either ignoring me, staring at me, or gossiping about me to their friend.

 

When I tried doing that, for years, women either still looked apprehensive and scared, and would reluctantly say, "Hello," back to me, or would ignore me and stare straight ahead, clearly giving a signal that they were uncomfortable with me trying to give a signal that I'm friendly and don't mean them any harm. I was tired of feeling foolish, being ignored, and talking to women who didn't want me to speak to them.

 

It's not my fault if—despite wearing brightly colored tops, smiling and saying, "Hello," and appearing to be a young-looking teenager/child—older, adult women walking with another friend still want to feel scared at a younger adult woman who is alone and shorter than them. There's nothing more I can do to convince them if they're always, naturally afraid of strangers, even females who say, "Hello!," and don't want to be convinced that other people might not mean them any harm.

 

Scientific studies show that a woman is more likely to be assaulted by a relative or someone she knows, and, yes, as someone who grew up physically and emotionally abused by relatives, not by strangers (who were nicer to me), I've found it to be true. But, I guess I'm not as fearful as other women; I wasn't taught to fear other people. Growing up a tomboy, I've always felt confident that I could take care of myself and run away from an attacker or fight them off of me if I had to.

[Scottthespy]

8 hours ago, Chorvus said:

I understand what you're saying, but I'd like to point out that fear of strange men in unexpected places is something women are conditioned to feel. I don't think their emotional response is invalid.

 

 

The humming would probably help.

That some one would be so fearful as to subconsciously assume, in this day and age, that some one in loose, 'masculine' clothing, standing perfectly out in the open not trying to hide or looking sleazy, in the woman's bathroom, is a male that is there for nefarious purposes, speaks worryingly of their upbringing and their own world view. I'm a girl. When I see some one in a loose band tshirt and saggy jeans with short hair in the woman's bathroom, and they're just standing in line or washing their hands, I don't even stop to wonder 'could that be a man?'. The automatic assumption is 'comfortable and acting natural=not doing anything wrong'. Now, perhaps that leaves me open to con artists and nefarious people who are good at looking like they're supposed to be wherever they are, but I feel like that's a fair trade in exchange for not living my life in constant fear, assuming the worst in every one, and feeling like I'm being victimized at every turn. Yes, bad things can happen, but its not healthy to go around assuming that the people around you are going to do bad things. If some one came into a bathroom and was startled by what they thought was the wrong sex of person in there, and said something, allowing that person to give an explanation such as 'I'm a girl' or 'I'm the janitor, didn't you see the cart', then that would be fair and prudent. But walking in, spotting some one washing their hands, and instantly fearing for your safety, seems extreme to me. I feel bad for some one who feels that way, and I would advocate for taking reasonable measures to avoid making people feel that way, but we cannot allow ourselves to take responsibility for other people's feelings. Going out of your way to frighten people is cruel, but if you're just going about your daily life and they feel threatened by you...that's kind of on them. I don't think people who aren't doing anything wrong should have to make themselves feel uncomfortable to cater to people who let fear rule their lives. As an example...should a black man who goes into a fancy clothes store keep his hands up above his head at all times to assuage the fears of people who think he might be there to steal? Most people would say that putting the hones to quell the fears of other people on the black man is infringing upon his rights.

[Lucinda]

Yeah, I get what you are saying, but some people harm other people in the name of self-defense even if it wasn't necessary.  You get two old ladies, who can't tell a little boy from a little girl and apparently aren't concerned for the child's safety, see a tall person that they assume is a man (because they obviously can't see very well) and they start swinging with their handbags and poking with their canes.  It's not a pretty picture.

 

You can stay away from fearful people as much as possible, but when you gotta go, you gotta go.

 

Lucinda

[Sally]

1 hour ago, Lucinda said:

  You get two old ladies, who can't tell a little boy from a little girl and apparently aren't concerned for the child's safety, see a tall person that they assume is a man (because they obviously can't see very well) and they start swinging with their handbags and poking with their canes. 

You've really seen that?  Nice stereotyping.  

[Busrider]

6 hours ago, Lucinda said:

I believe the suggestion was to say something so people would hear a female voice.  Singing or humming could work too.

 

Lucinda

Thanks for the help with clarifying.

[gisiebob]

I'm sorry you guys have to deal with this end of that silliness. if it makes anyone feel better I get uncomfortable with anyone using a public restroom  the same time I am, no thoughts of gender involved!