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G0D

#BottyGate Time to tell this Hilarious story...

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G0D

#BottyGate

OR

Desperately trying to find something to get offended by.

 

This story starts off not long after I joined this site, and I was more naive about moderators than I am now. PLEASE read to the end the payoff is just Great.

 

Before I start though, I would like to make clear that I don't hold any grudges. I was not well known, and it was a bit odd. 

 

The scary thing for me though is how hard moderators were looking to find some excuse to dish out some discipline. Why? I have no idea.. Yeah I am a little controversial from time to time, but I am hardly a trouble maker...  

 

Before I crack on. I will be posting the declassed stuff and links to it, and I did get told off.. I got a nudge and a 3 day ban from this. Though after I show this and what had happened everyone concerned will hopefully just laugh it off. 

 

OK This involved @fiѕh and myself. We had become friends and we enjoyed just messing about. Now there are a few things to note, and they are relevant. Fish is German, and Gay. I am Bi-ish, and I know 15 words of German, and 10 of those are the numbers one to 10.

 

Early one day, I sent Fish a very silly email. It was just daft, a slightly lewd, but a playfully silly email.

 

We both met in chat, and Fish commented on the email I sent him, and we laughed about it, and we kind of jokingly made it out to be worse than it was. We had some banter, and I asked him to post it in chat for everyone to see... He didn't want to, so I just popped it in Google translate, translated it in to German and posted it, thinking maybe someone might reverse translate, but there really wasn't many active users in at the time.

 

There was some Banter afterwards, and then Tal made a comment, and I was still giggling about it, and I tongue in cheek apologised.. I thought no more of it till I got a "Nudge", and a Ban for 3 days from chat because of the "Lewd and offensive language".

 

I was really shocked at the time.. I could see how what I had written was slightly rude, but it was hardly HARD CORE, or even offensive, and there definitely wasn't  any intent of being in any way disrespectful or bigoted. It was just playfully silly, and I had used deliberately inoffensive words, as that is half the joke....  

 

Any way here is the message I got:

################################################### START ##########################################

Lord Grep:

 

The following comment you made in chat has come to the attention of the AVEN Admod team:

 

  Quote

Spoiler
 
 

11/29/16 06:18 PMLord GrepWenn Sie sich jemals einsam und entscheiden, Sie wollen mit einem alten Fett englisch fuck pot, wer will kein spiteful botty Sex überhaupt .. Sie versenden Ihre jungen perfekt geputzt Arsch hier und ich werde Ihr Leben wirklich miserabel

 

I strongly advise against making comments in a foreign language when a Google translation will yield dubious results, especially such explicit subject matter, which many on AVEN would find offensive.

 

As part of this official action ("nudge") for inappropriate chat behaviour, you will be suspended from chat activity for three days from the sending of this post.

 

On behalf of the AVEN Admod team,

Qutenkuddly,

Chat Administrator

 

################################################ END ############################################

 

Now I was a bit blown away, because it was all just very childish and silly. and when I talked to a mod about it they said that someone had said that I used the word "Botty" and this was a Jamaican slur for a homosexual. This was News to me... There was nothing I could do about it. So that was that. But I was really sore about it.

 

Any way..  the longer time went on, the more intrigued I was, as to what the discussion was like when they decided to discipline me. For some reason had something hilarious in mind. Moderators arguing about translations and nuances of words etc. I thought I was going to get e treat of silliness. 

 

Well I waited and waited, and then The MOST efficient and cheerful person I know on here came to my Aid.. @deltaX You are just one amazing fellow..  I cannot compliment the guy enough... Few people in a paid job get things done with as little fuss, and under their own steam.. Thank you again Delta!

 

So I get the decision declassified. PLEASE READ IT... I felt I should feel offended. I mean everyone (bar one) is trying there best to get offended. That and no context was shown at all... It was made to look like I just said it out of the blue..... But don't panic.. I am not going to get all pissy... 

 

Click HERE No really DO IT, and read the thread that got me the nudge, and the 3 day ban. It's an eye opener...

 

Now ignoring all the nastiness, here is where things get funny. It concerns the word "Botty", And you need to read this carefully... Because they made a very silly mistake..

 

Botty means Bottom.. It is the least offensive word any where for your Arse (see I used a dysphemism there).. If you google it, Even the Urban dictionary they are so fond of to judge offence, says is a childish word for a bottom...

 

Now "Batty" that is with an A not an O, while in english means someone a bit stupid, or manic, In Jamaican  if used in conjunction with "Boy" is a SLANG word for a Homosexual... (No this is not the pay off the pay off is way better). 

 

So all those mods thinking so badly of me because they typed the wrong word in to the Urban dictionary? Is this how it works though??.. Really???.. Are peoples single posts, just taken out of all context put under a microscope to such a large degree because they just feel that something "MUST" be offensive that is why it is in German, when the answer was just that Fish is... Well... German. 

 

The worst of it is that what the hell can we say if Urban dictionary is to be the judge? As anything can be a slur in the Urban dictionary? I mean really it can... 

 

Now I wasn't going to post any of this on AVEN, as it is posted somewhere else... But Fish and I were talking last night, and we found out something that made us both laugh for AGES and we just thought .... "We just HAVE to share this".... 

 

See Fish put something else in to the Urban dictionary, I have no idea what inspired him... But this is what the result was:

4wbEbBV.png

Seems just about anything is offensive in Jamaica. 

 

We both hope you let fish keep his name.... I think he might have offended himself. 

 

Who else is sporting Jamaican slurs in there names???? I tried some out... Now @sea-lemon Things only get in to the dictionary if you are "Hairy"... Do you want to know what a "Hairy Sea Lemon" is??? Well disappointingly its just a term for somebody who fails at life. Had you all going there.

 

On a serious note though..... Do you nice mod types not think the time has come to chill out, give people the benefit of the doubt, and just talk to people reasonably before throwing nudges and bans about? 99% Of the users on here are not trying to be offensive, and good natured fun makes for a happy place... Dishing out punishments all the time must be fun from your chairs.. But none of us is perfect, and the only way to never offend anyone, or never say something in the urban dictionary that *MIGHT* be problematic is to never say anything at all...

 

Just for reference HERE is the google page for BOTTY  

botty
ˈbɒti/
noun
BRITISH
 
  1. a child's word for a person's bottom.
     
     
     
    And this is what Urban Dictionary says:
     
     
    Shortened version of "bottom" referring to the rear end.
    "I hurt my botty - whaaaaaaaaaaaaa :'("

     

     

    I think I need to make a browser add on that underlines problematic words in different dialects. 

     

    I just want to finish by pointing out that English is a massively wide spread language, and no one can be expected to know all the ways any word could be used as offensive slang threw out the world. I still have issue with the Fa* word. Where I live, it is an utterly common place word for a cigarette, and the most offensive gay slur many of you would not think of at all.. (unless you are British), DO you think there might come a time when AVEN mods are encouraging each other to just let things go? nudges, and bans just drive people away even warnings do... 

     

    Any way... I hope that gave everyone a bit of a fun ride.. And remember not to call @fiѕh "Fish" or he will likely report you for calling him a Jamaican slur for homosexual. 

     

    ENJOY!!!!!!

 

 

 

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Ciri

Uh just so you're aware. "Batty Boy" isn't "slang" in English for gay. It's actually incredibly offensive. 

 

I used to hear that phrase shouted at homosexuals while they were being bullied at school. It was graffitied over their lockers. It was genuinely used to torture them. If an Avenite was called that here, you can guarantee it would bring back bad memories. It was also used against men who were particularly feminine or men generally. 

 

My own personal experience was being held back by somebody while a gang at school attacked my brother with a (mathematic) compass while the crowd chanted 'Batty Boy'. 

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Nai

:huh: Well that was a wild ride. I would have appealed it if I was in your position (and knew all of this before hand). Got a nudge because they read a word wrong.

 

Also for Ciri's post above mine that's good to know, live in America and never heard that word 'til now.

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G0D
2 minutes ago, Ciri said:
 

Uh just so you're aware. "Batty Boy" isn't "slang" in English for gay. It's actually incredibly offensive. 

 

I used to hear that phrase shouted at homosexuals while they were being bullied at school. It was graffitied over their lockers. It was genuinely used to torture them. If an Avenite was called that here, you can guarantee it would bring back bad memories. It was also used against men who were particularly feminine or men generally. 

 

My own personal experience was being held back by somebody while a gang at school attacked my brother with a (mathematic) compass while the crowd chanted 'Batty Boy'. 

 

Fair play, and noted... Where I came from it was just used as a gentle gibe or joke... Thats the UK for you... Kinda illustrates my point though. The only way anyone can know when not to use a word of phrase is when they are asked to stop by someone. Offence really is in the eye of the beholder...

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Skycaptain

And now we've agreed that point I'd be obliged if that term isn't used d

 

There's a couple of tenets of English law which are useful to bear in mind. Firstly, presumption of innocence. Namely the accused enters the hearing innocent unless the evidence determines otherwise. Secondly, ignorance of the law is no defence. Namely it is the responsibility of the accused to be aware of what is permitted and what is not permitted. 

 

If you are unsure of whether a term is permitted, please feel free to contact an admod. Even if we have to take a collective decision, because a term my be offensive in some nations but not others, we would much rather advise beforehand than invoke disciplinary action afterwards 

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Serran

You attempted to get fish to post that and fish refused, because they knew they'd get in trouble if they did. So, you did know what you were posting was probably going to get you in trouble. Your own friend warned you. You posted it anyway. 

 

I can understand the nudge, given the rest of the content anyway. Sexual solicitation in the chat room is a fine line between acceptable joke and over the line sexual content. And users should be made aware of that line existing, especially if they're posting an (obviously) google translated line and they might not even know exactly what it translates into from a person who is familiar with the language. And, the wording of the nudge focused more on that than the potential slur.

 

For clarification - a nudge is meant for minor offenses, or when you get near the line, or when the line might be crossed accidentally. A way to let the user know to be more careful in the future. A warning is meant for obvious ToS breaches, serious offenses, or when the user obviously knows the line was crossed. 

 

There was some controversy when "Beam me up botty" was used towards George Takei, so there is precedent for it to be offensive when used towards homosexuals. Even if the more common phrase is the other one. 

 

I think the only thing questionable is the chat ban. But, given the vote was so close, I'd say you'll find many admods would agree it was questionable. 

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G0D

<watches point being missed>

<realises that humour is as subjective as offence>

<wonders off whistling> 

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ChillaKilla
3 hours ago, Lord Grep said:

<watches point being missed>

<realises that humour is as subjective as offence>

<wonders off whistling> 

No, there is no point to this, except you wanted to publicly complain and attempt to garner sympathy. Doubt anyone's gonna feed it to you like you're looking for.

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OptimisticPessimist

As far as i'm aware Sea-Lemon is not a Jamaican slur, and hairy or not Sea-Lemon's are not failure's.

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ChillaKilla
7 minutes ago, OptimisticPessimist said:

As far as i'm aware Sea-Lemon is not a Jamaican slur, and hairy or not Sea-Lemon's are not failure's.

It's not. Some random video game fan tried to make it a thing and it's not even remotely Jamaican.

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ThaHoward

Still its pretty far to base it on Jamaican when the person is obviously not speaking in Jamaican English. It make it even weirder when a user was not allowed to be named Shit, as it might be offensive, and openly said they named it to Skit since it liteterally mean shit in other languages. Now someone is getting nudged since it nay nean this in Jamaican - which they didn't even know? Or that Batty usually mean button, but is now automatically seen as offensive? Look line trigger happy work for md, or plainly amateurish.

 

Also the dutch argument was the worst. Something along "I am dutch, and here junge may be a slang for penis". Guess what it mean: young. But I suppose we should trust Dutch slang when translating German, instead of i.e Germans or a German dictionary. So when I see ut that way, the Jamaican BS make sense when compared to the Dutch BS.

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Qutenkreepy

A lot is being made of a simple nudge. Okay, let me clarify a few things. Yes, in Jamaican culture, the word 'batty' is a highly offensive term, but that isn't what the nudge was about (read it again). It was about very lewdly suggesting that you may wish to make someone's life miserable by having (spiteful?) anal sex with them.

 

You made this comment in an asexual chat room, which has a high possibility of having sex adverse/repulsed and other members, who may find such comments unpleasant and disturbing. That's kinda why it's mentioned in the Chatroom Rules, that you click to accept every time you enter, to keep "obscenity and sexually explicit chatting to a minimum". Enough of the staff found your comment to a sufficient violation to warrant a nudge and a chat ban. There really isn't more to it than that.

 

 

 

 

 

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fiѕh

but c'mon, a mod telling him that botty was an offensive word IS hilarious tho :lol: 

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Guest And Peggy

but in the nudge, the admods didn't say that was offensive or even mention that word at all

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G0D

The only reason I posted the damn thing here at all was because I thought it was just funny.

 

1: I posted something a bit silly when I was naive and new to how strict AVENs rules were.

2: The thing I posted was a translation of something else that was just silly and childish.

3: It was taken so seriously, by people hunting for offence that other than overall message really wasn't.

4: In all the translation and faff someone mistook "Botty" for something else, and then there was a thing about it being a Jamaican slur.. 

5: Then I got the declassed stuff, and that was funny...

 

You know I still would not have posted the thing here even after that...

 

It was only when @fiѕh found out that the word "Fish" was in its self a Jamaican slur for a homosexual that we both laughed so much, I just thought "I just have to post this".

 

To be honest, I was just expecting people to find the whole thing as silly, and ridicules as I have.  

 

Yeah there is a serious point I wanted to touch on about the interoperation of language, and punitive measures.  But overall... I just wanted to share a funny story.

 

My apologies to all those who have got so ansi.. 

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Guest And Peggy

 

 

 

 

 

                     .

 

 

 

 

 

 

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G0D
43 minutes ago, CakeSpadeAce said:

but in the nudge, the admods didn't say that was offensive or even mention that word at all

There was more communication that happened after the initial message, as I sought to clarify what the reasoning was.

 

22 hours ago, OptimisticPessimist said:

As far as i'm aware Sea-Lemon is not a Jamaican slur, and hairy or not Sea-Lemon's are not failure's.

<looks at you suspiciously> Yeeees..... 

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ChillaKilla
22 hours ago, fiѕh said:

but c'mon, a mod telling him that botty was an offensive word IS hilarious tho :lol: 

That was based on hearsay.

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ChillaKilla

It always seems your humor culminates in mocking others, Grep, and attempting to make them look ridiculous.

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deactivated account
just a reminder to acknowledge the difference in the way people speak in the UK in comparison to the US. depending on where you're from it's normal to say certain things in a certain way. and slang here is completely different.
the joke in question:

If you are ever lonely and decide you want an old fat English fuck pot, who does not want any spiteful botty sex at all .. Then ship your young perfectly groomed ass here and I will make your life really miserable

is a dumb/silly/funny way of saying:
If you are ever lonely and decide you want an old fat English idiot (fuck pot is nothing to do with sex), who is asexual (said in an exaggerated way for humour) .. Then go to the old Fat English idiot I will make your life really miserable (or as i understood it; being with the Fat English Idiot will reduce the quality of your life because they'd be a terrible partner).

The post mocks the person sending it (Grep) he describes himself as the Fat English idiot. 
 
The whole statement is so hyperbolic and ironic, it's funny. (now when i say Grep, i am not talking about the real grep, i am talking about this character he and fish made up (i think) for the joke)

those reading it are put on a pedestal. "young" and "perfectly groomed" describes the reader.

The tone Grep Spoke in was used to emphasise the "Idiot" part of his self description. (e.g. saying 'fuckpot' instead of idiot, saying 'ship your young perfectly groomed ass here' instead of if the young and perfectly groomed person reading this could please come here) It's cringy and not attractive. but it does fit the old, fat english idiot description.

 

The irony of it is that he understands how unattractive he is (attractiveness doesn’t have to be in the visual sense btw,). The Grep character now reaches a new borderline. and you have to pitty him a bit. 
 

"I will make your life really miserable” like i said initially, I believe it means that Grep will reduce the quality of your life because they'd be a terrible partner.

I can conclude that because Grep just spent the last few sentences praising the reader and belittling himself. 

If he meant "I will make your life really miserable” as in “I will put in the effort to bully you and  make you unhappy” He wouldn’t have praised the reader. 
 

In a sad way he wants some one to be with him but is simultaneously warning them that they won’t and shouldn’t accept the offer.

Even going as far as to translate the post into German using google translate (Grep is an English idiot, it suits) Just so the reader would have to go that extra step further to read this post. 
 

The deal is, it’s supposed to be so absurd, you don’t take it seriously. If you know grep (not the joke character grep, the real grep) He’s a nice guy, not an idiot at all. 

This Joke is extremely well thought out and crafted that i’m pretty impressed. 
 

but of course there’s going to be a few people who don’t know the real Grep and jump to conclusions. Maybe they think he really is an old fat english idiot. But the original place it was posted had 0 context before to explain it further. It would be absurd to think he was being totally serous. especially after it was dismissed as a joke and Tal was apologised to 
 

maybe there was someone in the chat who thought of themselves as an old fat english idiot and felt how the grep character felt. leading to them feeling a bit silly
 

On 3/14/2017 at 2:21 PM, Lord Grep said:

I could see how what I had written was slightly rude, but it was hardly HARD CORE, or even offensive, and there definitely wasn't  any intent of being in any way disrespectful or bigoted. It was just playfully silly, and I had used deliberately inoffensive words, as that is half the joke....  

or maybe the swearing was too much? is swearing not allowed on aven, i wouldn’t think so?

Maybe Aven is just not the place to share silly jokes like that. at the most it's cringy. but that's part of the joke. I personally think a 3 day ban is overdoing it, clearly Grep and fish were just being silly and wanted to share a joke. but if that's what the rules are here, then so be it.
 

 

On 3/14/2017 at 3:04 PM, Ciri said:

"Batty Boy" isn't "slang" in English for gay. It's actually incredibly offensive.

It is here. usually the people who use it are homophobic or just kids messing around with bad words because their parents aren't around

Jamaica as a whole though is highly offensive to anything not Cis and Heterosexual. 

I don't see a reason to single out "batty man/boy" as being "highly offensive to gays" because it literally means gay. and to call someone gay in Jamaica is an insult in itself.

 

are you gay? = are you a batty man? disgusting gay=disgusting batty man  

 

*is Jamaican so would know* 

 

my British sister once said to my Jamaican sister "Being gay isn't bad" she replied "you've been living in the west for too long" there is a different culture there for sure.


 

On 3/14/2017 at 2:21 PM, Lord Grep said:

Now "Batty" that is with an A not an O, while in english means someone a bit stupid, or manic, In Jamaican  if used in conjunction with "Boy" is a SLANG word for a Homosexual... (No this is not the pay off the pay off is way better). 

Grep's totally right about that though, no one says botty in jamaica. it's batty. the comparison was obviously made but someone unfamiliar with Jamaican culture.
 

also, i'm inclined to believe that offensive words about a thing can't exist in a culture where the thing in question is not generally accepted. 

Batty also means butt in jamaica.

 

On 3/14/2017 at 8:39 PM, OptimisticPessimist said:

As far as i'm aware Sea-Lemon is not a Jamaican slur, and hairy or not Sea-Lemon's are not failure's.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hairy+sea+lemon

Hairy sea lemon i doubt is a jamaican slur, but it does mean failure. and Grep was clearly trying to see if anyone else's name on aven had an offensive meaning, or negative connotations etc. Not calling @sea-lemon hairy or a faliure, of course she's not. More trying to say you can't just find a meaning of a word and assume it's meant in a horrible way. because if that happened @fish wouldn't be allowed to have his name. IF (and only if) sea lemon changed her name to hairy sea lemon, the same would apply to her and many other users on aven
 

 

On 3/14/2017 at 8:20 PM, ChillaKilla said:

except you wanted to publicly complain and attempt to garner sympathy

except there was a point to it. I think sharing reasons why you got penalised for doing something is important. other people can learn from peoples mistakes. and maybe even laugh at them too like i did. 

 

 

On 3/15/2017 at 4:16 AM, Qutenkuddly said:

Yes, in Jamaican culture, the word 'batty' is a highly offensive

No, actually it's not an offensive term. it means butt. "Highly offensive" is just exaggerating.
 

 

On 3/15/2017 at 4:16 AM, Qutenkuddly said:

It was about very lewdly suggesting that you may wish to make someone's life miserable by having (spiteful?) anal sex with them.

I can understand why someone might take that part of the joke and run with it. but..... wait a second. he didn't say that, you've totally jumped the gun and changed the meaning. "who does not want any spiteful botty sex at all" 
anal is a lot more "lewd" than saying "botty sex". The Grep character Doesn't want to have "botty sex" because they are asexual. Grep put "spiteful" there because it's Silly and dumb "
English idiot" was part of the joke.

He doesn't "Want" to make someone's life miserable. he will, and believes it's so inevitable, he's gone and declared it as truth. not by "having anal sex with them" *cringe* but by being himself "and old fat english idiot"

 

 

On 3/16/2017 at 4:25 PM, ChillaKilla said:

It always seems your humor culminates in mocking others, Grep, and attempting to make them look ridiculous.

If you read the beginning of my post where i explain the joke, you'll see the whole thing is mocking himself and making himself look like the idiot. Unless i've made a mistake you'd like to point out?

 

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deactivated account

nothing? anyone? 

giphy.gif

can somebody tell me i'm wrong? or is this just an internet hit and run?


 

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FaerieFate

Just a heads up. Grep is focusing on the fact that the word "Botty" is offensive.But let's read what the nudge actually says.

 

Quote

I strongly advise against making comments in a foreign language when a Google translation will yield dubious results, especially such explicit subject matter, which many on AVEN would find offensive.

I don't see it saying that the word "botty" is the issue in here. Am I missing something?

 

The nudge specifically says that the Google translate results looked sexual. To an American reading this (Hey, I'm American!). Yeah, that looks sexual. I understand after what Andy said that it's not, but that's the way it was taken with the Google translate.

 

I'd also like to remind everyone reading this that this was a nudge. Nudges are basically intended to say, "Hey, you did a thing. It could get you in trouble if you do it again, so please don't." It's not a disciplinary action. It's just intended to be a gentle reminder that we prefer it no happen otherwise it may result in disciplinary action.That's why you can't repeal them. There's no point because all we're doing is reminding you that you shouldn't do it.

 

Oh, and since Grep chose to share the information, I'd like to point out everything that I used to make this post was from Grep's original post. You can freely read the full nudge there in which it says it's a nudge and not a warning.

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deactivated account
5 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

I don't see it saying that the word "botty" is the issue in here. Am I missing something?

well, thank you for responding, but nope, though it may have effected why 3 day ban and a nudge was given for not violating the ToS
also, some people are upset that he used the word. i have to clear that up.
 

On 3/14/2017 at 2:21 PM, Lord Grep said:

I got a nudge and a 3 day ban from this.

 

5 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

I strongly advise against making comments in a foreign language

talking in another language in chat is fine according to the Tos

"

  • Although there is no requirement to speak English, please bear in mind that, while chat users may speak many different languages, the majority will probably speak English. Chats in other languages are allowed but might make other chat users feel excluded if they do not fully understand what is being said. If this is the case please refrain and you can switch to private chat if required."

 

5 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

when a Google translation will yield dubious results

yeah but what you understand a person in saying in a different language is you (mis)interpreting it. If you'd asked him what he meant, this would've been avoided. fish is german (or at least speaks german), grep is British. There was obvious British slang in the post, which possibly could throw of any German speakers trying to understand it. They made sure Google translate was the only way people could understand it the way they wanted them to.  Google Translate didn't yield dubious results this time.

 

5 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

Google translate results looked sexual.

 

5 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

but that's the way it was taken with the Google translate.

i used google translate. and i didn't find an issue with the joke.
 

ToS:

  • Discussing sexuality is very important in our community, as many members are questioning their orientations and/or need to share their experiences. If you are bothered by the topic, you can start a new topic at the same time, private chat about something else, or come back later. When it comes to explicit sexual discussions (with graphic details), be aware that these can make other members uncomfortable. TMI warnings can quickly disappear; therefore, we ask that you exercise some common courtesy and check with the other users present at the time to see how comfortable they are with the discussion. Warn newcomers to the chat room of the current discussion. If several members are expressing too much discomfort with it, please tone down the explicit part, or move your conversation into private chat with users who are okay with it. Discussing sexuality is not the same as 'cybering', which is not allowed in the main chat room.


d. Sexually explicit material
Because many users find sexually explicit material offensive we request that posts which contain sexually explicit material contain a warning in the subject line. Please refrain from using sexually explicit subject lines.

so not only is sexual conversations and sexually explicit material is allowed (as long as the chat is okay with it, and you stop when they are not) I had to explain why the joke was ASEXUAL in nature.


>If you are ever lonely and decide you want an old fat English idiot, who is asexual.. Then go to the old Fat English idiot, I will reduce the quality of your life because i'm a terrible partner< this was not even slightly explicit. the only thing sexual about it was grep saying he "doesn't want botty sex" 

unless the rules here are "i misunderstood your joke and found it sexual, so you must be punished for it" ..... even though sexual talk is perfectly fine. (I know it says "sexuality" in the ToS, but "discussing" sexuality is sexual.) the nudge wasn't even necessary. let alone a 3 day ban.

I do believe though, some were pushing a narrative that the joke was sexually explicit (which would deserve a nudge if it was. a mod would have to say "assuming you read the ToS, you should have warned people before posting a sexually explicit comment incase some people weren't okay with it, and some may find it offensive") 

and then because of that narrative, the joke was further misunderstood. perfect example of this:

On 3/15/2017 at 4:16 AM, Qutenkuddly said:

It was about very lewdly suggesting that you may wish to make someone's life miserable by having (spiteful?) anal sex with them.

^^^ not even slightly about that.
as i explained in my original post.
but that may have lead to nudges

So can i ask. Why was he given a nudge? because people are telling me different reasons, and it's a bit unprofessional. I personally believe the nudge was unnecessary in itself, since the joke wasn't even explicit (if you translate it in google translate, which is what you're intended to do). you could've just asked grep what the was saying.

and what about the 3 day chat ban? <- i think that's unnecessary too.

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FaerieFate
16 hours ago, AndyAce said:

well, thank you for responding, but nope, though it may have effected why 3 day ban and a nudge was given for not violating the ToS
also, some people are upset that he used the word. i have to clear that up.
 

 

talking in another language in chat is fine according to the Tos

"

  • Although there is no requirement to speak English, please bear in mind that, while chat users may speak many different languages, the majority will probably speak English. Chats in other languages are allowed but might make other chat users feel excluded if they do not fully understand what is being said. If this is the case please refrain and you can switch to private chat if required."

 

yeah but what you understand a person in saying in a different language is you (mis)interpreting it. If you'd asked him what he meant, this would've been avoided. fish is german (or at least speaks german), grep is British. There was obvious British slang in the post, which possibly could throw of any German speakers trying to understand it. They made sure Google translate was the only way people could understand it the way they wanted them to.  Google Translate didn't yield dubious results this time.

 

 

i used google translate. and i didn't find an issue with the joke.
 

ToS:

  • Discussing sexuality is very important in our community, as many members are questioning their orientations and/or need to share their experiences. If you are bothered by the topic, you can start a new topic at the same time, private chat about something else, or come back later. When it comes to explicit sexual discussions (with graphic details), be aware that these can make other members uncomfortable. TMI warnings can quickly disappear; therefore, we ask that you exercise some common courtesy and check with the other users present at the time to see how comfortable they are with the discussion. Warn newcomers to the chat room of the current discussion. If several members are expressing too much discomfort with it, please tone down the explicit part, or move your conversation into private chat with users who are okay with it. Discussing sexuality is not the same as 'cybering', which is not allowed in the main chat room.


d. Sexually explicit material
Because many users find sexually explicit material offensive we request that posts which contain sexually explicit material contain a warning in the subject line. Please refrain from using sexually explicit subject lines.

so not only is sexual conversations and sexually explicit material is allowed (as long as the chat is okay with it, and you stop when they are not) I had to explain why the joke was ASEXUAL in nature.


>If you are ever lonely and decide you want an old fat English idiot, who is asexual.. Then go to the old Fat English idiot, I will reduce the quality of your life because i'm a terrible partner< this was not even slightly explicit. the only thing sexual about it was grep saying he "doesn't want botty sex" 

unless the rules here are "i misunderstood your joke and found it sexual, so you must be punished for it" ..... even though sexual talk is perfectly fine. (I know it says "sexuality" in the ToS, but "discussing" sexuality is sexual.) the nudge wasn't even necessary. let alone a 3 day ban.

I do believe though, some were pushing a narrative that the joke was sexually explicit (which would deserve a nudge if it was. a mod would have to say "assuming you read the ToS, you should have warned people before posting a sexually explicit comment incase some people weren't okay with it, and some may find it offensive") 

and then because of that narrative, the joke was further misunderstood. perfect example of this:

^^^ not even slightly about that.
as i explained in my original post.
but that may have lead to nudges

So can i ask. Why was he given a nudge? because people are telling me different reasons, and it's a bit unprofessional. I personally believe the nudge was unnecessary in itself, since the joke wasn't even explicit (if you translate it in google translate, which is what you're intended to do). you could've just asked grep what the was saying.

and what about the 3 day chat ban? <- i think that's unnecessary too.

Sorry for the late reply, there was an emergency.

 

Going to copy/paste from google translate for reference.

Quote

 

You'll ever be lonely and decide you want to fuck with an old fat english, who does not want any spiteful botty sex at all .. They ship your young perfectly groomed ass here and I'll make your life really miserable

The whole things could be sexual, and the first impression DOES look sexual to me.I understand, double meaning and all that, but I'm sorry. This looks extremely sexual. Being sexual in itself on AVEN is fine if no one is made to feel uncomfortable. I mean, we have a whole board for Sex Talk. Obviously AVEN supports sex-positivity. But the thing with reports is, we're not looking through chat unless something is reported. We don't pull chat logs unless someone reports something. Which means someone was made to feel uncomfortable enough to report it after they ran it through Google translate. Which means they also saw sexual undertones.

 

Again, if it WAS against TOS or Grep had a huge issue with repeatedly making sexual remarks that made people uncomfortable, he'd have been given a warning. Plain and simple. But instead he was given a nudge. We basically said, "Hey, this made people uncomfortable, please try to refrain from that in the future." I still don't understand what the big deal of a nudge is. We basically asked Grep to not post sexual content. If it wasn't sexual, all Grep has to do is explain that when they get there nudge. Admods do read their PMs, and do bring it to the team if it's important. In this case, it may be important to note the meaning of this in British slang.

 

But Grep posts here defending his use of the word "botty". There's no complaint of that word in the nudge he's posted on this thread, so I don't know what the big deal over that is.

 

I'd like to refer to chat TOS.

 

Quote

The following guidelines may apply:

  • Nudge for behaviour in chat: 3 day chat ban that cannot be appealed
  • Warning for behaviour in chat: 2 weeks chat ban

In the chat TOS (linked when you try to enter chat) it says nudges get a 3 day chat ban. That is what we have agreed upon as admods. So Grep got nudged for posting what appeared to be sexual content on chat. Admods didn't see anything bad enoguh to warn Grep for, but it seemed important to inform Grep that it appeared sexual and to be more careful. Which I stand by because a member was obviously bothered enough to report it. It's a good rule of thumb to be careful of sexual content in chat, it may make people uncomfortable. Since it was a nudge that we sent, it came with the chat ban. Again, Grep CAN still PM an admod and explain himself. I'm all ears for complaints on reports. It's why I go into Site Comments in the first place.

 

And, to be fair, I'm saying this as my perspective when reading Grep's post. I don't speak for all admods, I'm only speaking for how I logically make these decisions as a moderator. All I'm doing is explaining what probably happened with this information as I don't fully recall the report.

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You'll ever be lonely and decide you want to fuck with an old fat english, who does not want any spiteful botty sex at all .. They ship your young perfectly groomed ass here and I'll make your life really miserable

well that's very different fromm the translation i got (from google translate) on March 20:
If you are ever lonely and decide you want an old fat English fuck pot, who does not want any spiteful botty sex at all .. Then ship your young perfectly groomed ass here and I will make your life really miserable

Either GT has updated, or it's using some sort of technology to make translations more "accurate". So sorry about that, i hadn't realised the translations change over time or i wouldn't have said This time Google translate doesn't have dubious results.  According to this article GT has installed a new AI in late 2016 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/magazine/the-great-ai-awakening.html?_r=0 so that would explain the difference in translations if you've got a learning robot involved.

well, despite that, there's still an alternative translation there that isn't too too far of from what i originally got:
You ever lonely and decide you want with an old fat fuck English pot, who wants no spiteful botty sex .. do you send your young ass perfectly cleaned here and I'm really miserable your life

closer if you split the english and german up:
Screen_Shot_2017-04-03_at_08.36.15.png

which i don't expect anyone to do of course, I'm just trying to say the translation has definitely changed.
 

 

6 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

The whole things could be sexual, and the first impression DOES look sexual to me.

the translation you got is definitely explicit and sexual, of course, I agree with that.

 

6 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

we're not looking through chat unless something is reported. We don't pull chat logs unless someone reports something. Which means someone was made to feel uncomfortable enough to report it after they ran it through Google translate. Which means they also saw sexual undertones.

one of the mods posted the chat logs here http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/148231-moved-mar1017-weird-thing-in-chat/?do=findComment&comment=1061973195
 

Spoiler
11/29/16 06:17 PM Lord Grep What you scrabbling
11/29/16 06:17 PM Lord Grep Member1
11/29/16 06:18 PM Lord Grep Member1
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member2 Member2 left the room
11/29/16 06:18 PM Lord Grep Member1
11/29/16 06:18 PM Lord Grep MEMBER1
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member3 [Link2]
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member4 I don't know
11/29/16 06:18 PM SkyWorld I chose mine from a song/album.
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 grep
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 grep
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 grep
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 grep
11/29/16 06:18 PM Lord Grep ok
11/29/16 06:18 PM Lord Grep ready?
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member4 I was thinking something with [Redacted] in it
11/29/16 06:18 PM Lord Grep Wenn Sie sich jemals einsam und entscheiden, Sie wollen mit einem alten Fett englisch fuck pot, wer will kein spiteful botty Sex überhaupt .. Sie versenden Ihre jungen perfekt geputzt Arsch hier und ich werde Ihr Leben wirklich miserabel
11/29/16 06:18 PM SkyWorld And ended up keeping it for more than a year.
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 ?
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member5 [Redacted]
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 hahahaha
11/29/16 06:18 PM SkyWorld :huh:
11/29/16 06:18 PM Member1 google translate?


soo the chat seemed to happen before the AI thing came about.
:/ too bad we can't go back in time to see what the translation would've been if someone typed this into google translate at the time.......

:D hehe NOPE (i know, sorry, i shouldn't be laughing, but this research is really fun for me) 

https://www.apk4fun.com/history/6483/

from this website you can download the older versions of Google translate before the updates. so anything that's not updated after 29th of November 2016 is perfect. which would be this one 

4. Old Version: Google Translate 5.5.0.RC04.137189260 APK (Updated: October 25, 2016) 

as you can see from the download link, this site has the aps. I downloaded it. ^^ Here's the translation:

If you are ever lonely and decide you want an old fat English fuck pot, who does not want any spiteful botty sex at all .. Then ship your young perfectly groomed ass here and I will make your life really miserable (exactly what i got)
 

Spoiler

unnamed.png

 

and i already explained why the joke is asexual before.
 

7 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

I still don't understand what the big deal of a nudge is. We basically asked Grep to not post sexual content. If it wasn't sexual, all Grep has to do is explain that when they get there nudge. Admods do read their PMs, and do bring it to the team if it's important. In this case, it may be important to note the meaning of this in British slang.

 

right, so a nudge is a 3 day ban? my bad.
"We basically asked Grep to not post sexual content" why? in the chat or in the nudge? because sexual content isn't against the ToS. But if you asked him in chat and he continued, that would be against the ToS and a nudge would be justified. Posting sexual content when people have told you they aren't okay with it will get you into trouble on this website.


the nudge:

On 3/14/2017 at 2:21 PM, Lord Grep said:

I strongly advise against making comments in a foreign language when a Google translation will yield dubious results, especially such explicit subject matter, which many on AVEN would find offensive.

grep's comment:

On 3/14/2017 at 2:21 PM, Lord Grep said:

Now I was a bit blown away, because it was all just very childish and silly. and when I talked to a mod about it they said that someone had said that I used the word "Botty" and this was a Jamaican slur for a homosexual. This was News to me... There was nothing I could do about it. So that was that. But I was really sore about it.


well, the "there was nothing i could do about it" is rather interesting. he managed to explain himself here a little, so i would expect him to have attempted to respond to the nudge. but if he thinks he couldn't do anything about it, then i wouldn't be surprised if he didn't explain himself, and 

 

7 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

Nudge for behaviour in chat: 3 day chat ban that cannot be appealed

can't be appealed?? so could he even try to explain himself then? and would it have made any difference??

oh yeah. British slang for the translation at that time:
fuck pot: idiot
http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=Starkid+Tamie
botty: bum/butt
http://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=14%2F88

(neither are inherently offensive, it'd be mean to call someone else an idiot or a fuck pot, but that's not what happened)

 

7 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

Again, Grep CAN still PM an admod and explain himself.

will it make a difference? I don't know if the nudge is a permanent label you get that can be removed if you can prove you don't deserve it? Is it like a warning where if you get 3 (if i remember correctly) you get permanently banned?

 

7 hours ago, Avenati Avocado said:

All I'm doing is explaining what probably happened with this information as I don't fully recall the report.

ah, i see, that would make sense. thanks

though i do and did feel the need to respond to the people in this post. since it still seems like an internet hit and run to me. you're the only one who responded.
I didn't see anyone getting upset in the chat logs that was posted. if they used the google translate, they would've gotten the translation i got. and they could've told grep not to say that stuff in the chat. it mentioned sex, so yeah, it was sexual. nudge for it? not unless he continued. warning for it? no. (I only say that because sexual content is allowed, and sexually explicit is allowed but it's much stricter, since you have to be sure people are okay with it before. It's kind of harsh to ban someone for 3 days for not violating the tos)

I see a lot of upset here though (mostly mods)

Someone tried to translate the post themselves and got something a lot more rude (they said "I speak a germanic language (dutch)" and dutch isn't german, so i don't know why everyone just kind of went with it). If tal had tagged Grep in this post, he could've at least defended himself and said no, that's not what i meant. you're supposed to use google translate. but instead a bunch of people just generated an echo chamber of "yes this is highly offensive and explicit"

fuck pot is apparently bigoted?? because calling yourself an idiot it bigoted? heh. Bigoted<- 
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

bigot (it's a pet peeve that people are trying to change the meaning of words): a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

i.e having an opinion about something and not want to change it.

I am a bigot because i think the School system i was a part of is extremely flawed and did me more harm than good. No one can convince me otherwise.
I am also a bigot because i think tourture is never justified (because of multiple reasons). but yeah, no one can convince me otherwise

bigot isn't inherently bad. and calling yourself names isn't inherently bigoted either.

Botty is apparently offensive in that thread too, and a load of other complaints.

I'd wonder if those mods would change their mind after reading any of my posts here 

giphy.gif

I'd tag them, but i'd rather hear your response first

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Ciri

Why does it matter?

 

Nudges can't be appealed. It's not the end of the world. It's not like you've been full on permanently banned. 

 

I've told you this before. A lot of these 'jokes' are offensive. There's no getting around that and the onus isn't on the individual to not be offended. It's on the person themselves. That's how the real world works. 

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Just now, Ciri said:

Why does it matter?

 

Nudges can't be appealed. It's not the end of the world. It's not like you've been full on permanently banned. 

 

I've told you this before. A lot of these 'jokes' are offensive. There's no getting around that and the onus isn't on the individual to not be offended. It's on the person themselves. That's how the real world works. 

Hit and run. that's why it matters. Please respond to my points. thank you.

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9 minutes ago, AndyAce said:

Hit and run. that's why it matters. Please respond to my points. thank you.

I did. 

 

Everything else is irrelevant. It was decided that it wasn't funny, it was decided that it was offensive, a nudge was given.

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Just now, Ciri said:

I did. 

 

Everything else is irrelevant. It wasn't funny, it was offensive, a nudge was given. End of story. 

well thank you for your input. but it's very opinion based. which is rather unhelpful to me.
If i just gave my opinion and said:

"i don't find this joke offensive, i find it funny" people would say to me, that is your opinion. I do/don't agree. and then Everyone would still think his nudge and ban was justified.

I'm just trying to prove it's not justified. If you think it was justified. you'll have to prove it so. 
and "offensive" isn't a good reason. :/ Because I find it offensive that people are going to accuse my friend of something i don't agree with and then not respond to me after i addressed the accusations 2 weeks ago. I got 2 responses. 1 is unhelpful. It would be very unfair of me to try and get people in trouble for that.

:P i think you don't like me Ciri because i said to you (about another Joke Grep did) that you don't speak for everyone when you say it's offensive. also i said, after you called Grep patronising, that you are being patronising and not him.

So yeah. Ciri, out of respect for your dislike of me and your continued un-helpfulness in this situation at hand, I advise you to not respond again unless you are going to address my analysis of Grep's joke and the evidence and opinions i put forward regarding everything else.

the initial impression i had of you is not very good. Please don't make it worse :3
again, thank you for your response.

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