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Fitzsimmons ♡

A message about AVEN's values

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pook

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chair jockey

Just to express my support for the original post, imagine if someone said "I'm gay" and someone else replied "No, you're not gay." That would be unacceptable in many places, not just AVEN. The same rule applies to everyone here, and I agree with it.

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CBC

I do not at all agree with the stance that members shouldn't be able to tell people whether they are or aren't asexual assuming that the information about themselves provided by the person who's questioning their sexuality is both truthful and thorough to the very best of their knowledge, but message understood loud and clear. Always has been, for me at least.

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Sally

If someone posts that they really seek having partnered sex and enjoy it and then claims that they are asexual, I will say something to the order of "That doesn't sound like the usual meaning of asexuality: not wanting partnered sex."  I won't tell them they aren't asexual.  I'm assuming that's cool.

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FaerieFate
1 hour ago, Sally said:

If someone posts that they really seek having partnered sex and enjoy it and then claims that they are asexual, I will say something to the order of "That doesn't sound like the usual meaning of asexuality: not wanting partnered sex."  I won't tell them they aren't asexual.  I'm assuming that's cool.

That's you're definition and not the AVEN supported definition. As long as you make that clear and make it clear you can't label them, that's fine. 

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CBC
1 hour ago, Sally said:

If someone posts that they really seek having partnered sex and enjoy it and then claims that they are asexual, I will say something to the order of "That doesn't sound like the usual meaning of asexuality: not wanting partnered sex."  I won't tell them they aren't asexual.  I'm assuming that's cool.

Yeah I sure hope it is, otherwise the members of this site are doing a great disservice to those who are looking to properly understand themselves.

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FictoVore.
3 hours ago, chair jockey said:

Just to express my support for the original post, imagine if someone said "I'm gay" and someone else replied "No, you're not gay." That would be unacceptable in many places, not just AVEN. The same rule applies to everyone here, and I agree with it.

Yeah but if someone said "I'm a gay man, I only desire sex with women and would never have sex with a man" almost anyone anywhere (especially in the gay community) would take massive issue with that. If someone said "I'm a straight woman, I only desire sex with women and would never have sex with a man" almost every person alive would tell her she's confused about what straight means and is not, in fact, straight. The same standards do not apply to asexuality though which causes it to lose a lot of value as a true orientation in the eyes of almost all sexuals and many people within this community. It's more a label you can identify with for whatever reason if you feel like it, which isn't something that applies to homosexuality, heterosexuality, or bisexuality. 

 

I think if AVEN continues to support this sort of thing, it should change its name to "AVSN" - asexuality visibility and speculation network, Or "AVDN" - asexuality visibility and discussion network. There isn't any actual education here as no one is allowed to define asexuality one specific way unless they say "asexuality is whatever you want it to be", so it's literally all arguments, speculation, and discussion, no actual education. There is also no education as to what constitutes normal sexuality, something vitally important when trying to define asexuality (which is the lack of what makes a sexual person "sexual"). Sexuality is massively, deplorably misunderstood in this community, yet this website refuses to even make an attempt to accurately define what normal sexuality looks like (they're not all sex-crazed lunatics who want to bang everyone that looks hot to them...) So yeah, there is no education here. I'm not even meaning this in an accusatory or cruel way, I mean it literally. The name of this website and forum is extremely misleading, when it comes to the education part anyway.

 

36 minutes ago, faeriefate said:
2 hours ago, Sally said:

If someone posts that they really seek having partnered sex and enjoy it and then claims that they are asexual, I will say something to the order of "That doesn't sound like the usual meaning of asexuality: not wanting partnered sex."  I won't tell them they aren't asexual.  I'm assuming that's cool.

That's you're definition and not the AVEN supported definition. As long as you make that clear and make it clear you can't label them, that's fine. 

Yet AVEN also states in its General FAQ that Sexual attraction is "the desire for partnered sexual contact with someone else, to share your sexuality with them" so what Sally is saying IS the AVEN supported definition...

 

 

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FaerieFate
5 minutes ago, ℃å℞t☉☧hℹĿẹ• said:

Yet AVEN also states in its General FAQ that Sexual attraction is "the desire for partnered sexual contact with someone else, to share your sexuality with them" so what Sally is saying IS the AVEN supported definition...

 

 

Except the BOD (effectively the boss of the admods) say that the AVEN supported definition is lack of sexual attraction. Apparently there is a disconnect in what our threads say, and I'll bring it up with admods, but the BOD is saying that the AVEN supported definition is lack of sexual attraction, then that's the definition AVEN supports.

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FictoVore.
5 minutes ago, faeriefate said:

Except the BOD (effectively the boss of the admods) say that the AVEN supported definition is lack of sexual attraction. Apparently there is a disconnect in what our threads say, and I'll bring it up with admods, but the BOD is saying that the AVEN supported definition is lack of sexual attraction, then that's the definition AVEN supports.

I'm wondering if there is some sort of miscommunication happening here? Is this a language barrier or something? If AVEN states (in the General FAQ, on the front page of this site) that sexual attraction is "the desire for sexual contact with someone else" then a lack of sexual attraction is a lack of desire for sexual contact with someone else... I really don't know how to explain it any clearer than that :mellow:

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FaerieFate
1 minute ago, ℃å℞t☉☧hℹĿẹ• said:

I'm wondering if there is some sort of miscommunication happening here? Is this a language barrier or something? If AVEN states that sexual attraction is "the desire for sexual contact with someone else" then a lack of sexual attraction is a lack of desire for sexual contact with someone else...

It is in my belief that a desire to have sex is a more general concept where sexual attraction is a more specific one. A person can desire to have sex without being sexually attracted to anyone.

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FictoVore.
4 minutes ago, faeriefate said:

It is in my belief that a desire to have sex is a more general concept where sexual attraction is a more specific one. A person can desire to have sex without being sexually attracted to anyone.

Yes, plenty of sexual people desire sex with others without experiencing sexual attraction as it's commonly defined by people in this community. I worked in the sex industry for two years, so I know this for a fact.

 

However, regardless of what you personally believe, AVEN itself, in the General FAQ, defines sexual attraction as the desire for sexual contact with someone else. Ergo, when AVEN states that asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction, it's also (correctly) stating that asexuality is a lack of desire for sexual contact with other people. Regardless of what individuals believe, that's the official AVEN definition and is a step in the right direction toward an accurate definition of asexuality.

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Mysticus Insanus

Okay, I guess it's time to make it formal and conclusive then. I will request a permanent suspension of my account, because I cannot in good conscience remain member of a site espousing and enforcing such values, values which I find deeply ideologically misguided and actively harmful to the asexual community as a whole, and actively undermining stated goal of visibility and education in particular.

 

I hereby say no to AVEN. It is no longer a site that I, as a person who values honesty and logic, want to be associated with. People who want a mere social site can go to Twitter, Facebook, or wherever. This is not what I signed up for here. It is, however, what I will permanently sign out over. You folks have lost your way, and will have to continue without me. I do not and will not stand for what you stand for.

 

I'll have my account deactivated on March 31. (Sending an admin PM right after posting this.) Anyone who wishes to stay in contact, please PM me before that date.

 

Bye, folks. Was fun being here while this site still served a purpose I could agree with.

 

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Anthracite_Impreza

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DNA
4 hours ago, Mysticus Insanus said:

Okay, I guess it's time to make it formal and conclusive then. I will request a permanent suspension of my account, because I cannot in good conscience remain member of a site espousing and enforcing such values, values which I find deeply ideologically misguided and actively harmful to the asexual community as a whole, and actively undermining stated goal of visibility and education in particular.

 

I hereby say no to AVEN. It is no longer a site that I, as a person who values honesty and logic, want to be associated with. People who want a mere social site can go to Twitter, Facebook, or wherever. This is not what I signed up for here. It is, however, what I will permanently sign out over. You folks have lost your way, and will have to continue without me. I do not and will not stand for what you stand for.

 

I'll have my account deactivated on March 31. (Sending an admin PM right after posting this.) Anyone who wishes to stay in contact, please PM me before that date.

 

Bye, folks. Was fun being here while this site still served a purpose I could agree with.

 

Do take care :mellow::( 

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Togee
5 hours ago, Mysticus Insanus said:

Okay, I guess it's time to make it formal and conclusive then. I will request a permanent suspension of my account, because I cannot in good conscience remain member of a site espousing and enforcing such values, values which I find deeply ideologically misguided and actively harmful to the asexual community as a whole, and actively undermining stated goal of visibility and education in particular.

 

I hereby say no to AVEN. It is no longer a site that I, as a person who values honesty and logic, want to be associated with. People who want a mere social site can go to Twitter, Facebook, or wherever. This is not what I signed up for here. It is, however, what I will permanently sign out over. You folks have lost your way, and will have to continue without me. I do not and will not stand for what you stand for.

 

I'll have my account deactivated on March 31. (Sending an admin PM right after posting this.) Anyone who wishes to stay in contact, please PM me before that date.

 

Bye, folks. Was fun being here while this site still served a purpose I could agree with.

 

 

@Mysticus InsanusTake care and good luck for you. ^_^

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MistySpring

I think it is so important to remember that yes everyone does decide for themselves how they identify and it is awesome to respect it when people are fine with how they feel. You don't get to label someone else. Of course when someone asks for guidance it's great to want to help out and give ones opinion and take on it but it's totally unnecessary to be pushy. That's not exactly welcoming or make people feel included and supported. If one wants to debate definitions why not keep that in specific threads for it instead of policing people. 
Like I don't care how crazy one might think someone else's way of identifying is, and that goes for whichever direction it might be.....you can't make someone else think the same way as you do just because it doesn't make sense to you. If they have a different view about themselves just support it or at least accept it and chill. 

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Homer

I'm sad to see you leave, Mysti :mellow: Take care of yourself!

 

Question for Pan that I have carried around for a while now. Do you think that working in the sex industry has shaped your view significantly? Like there's a certain type/character of people who are more likely to make use of the offers of the sex industry, having an impact on your opinion about sexuals, while other groups of people are underrepresented?

 

No judgement here, genuine question ^_^

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Guest And Peggy

Bye Mysticus

 

I've only seen you on here for about a month, but you seem cool.

------------------------------------------

I think that it is unfair to people that are actually questioning and want answers to say that "there is no one definition of asexuality, only you can label yourself, etc." That's not really going to give anyone good help.

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chair jockey

AVEN is dependency-forming in some cases. People do leave permanently, but others end up coming back.

 

And in practice AVEN is a general discussion forum. Asexuality is the official focus but other benign discussions go on all the time. With no other general forum out there that has similar traffic and a similar quality of people, AVEN provides a valuable service to those who just want some place to hang out. There's nothing wrong with that.

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Kyon.

Has anything actually changed or is this just a reminder of how things are? (Genuine question!)

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nanogretchen4

If we use a desire based definition of attraction and an attraction based definition of asexuality, that's just a needlessly confusing statement of a desire based definition. Any definition of asexuality that does not explain that asexuals do not want to have partnered sex is useless. People who don't want partnered sex are a minority who need support, community, visibility, and a viable system for finding and dating each other. People who want sex but don't experience some arbitrary definition of attraction are probably in the majority of the general population and can cheerfully help themselves to the general dating pool since this is very unlikely to cause any serious incompatibility. I'm pretty sure the kind of asexuals who actually don't want sex have a more legitimate need for the label and for AVEN.

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OptimisticPessimist
2 hours ago, MistySpring said:

I think it is so important to remember that yes everyone does decide for themselves how they identify and it is awesome to respect it when people are fine with how they feel. You don't get to label someone else. Of course when someone asks for guidance it's great to want to help out and give ones opinion and take on it but it's totally unnecessary to be pushy. That's not exactly welcoming or make people feel included and supported. If one wants to debate definitions why not keep that in specific threads for it instead of policing people. 
Like I don't care how crazy one might think someone else's way of identifying is, and that goes for whichever direction it might be.....you can't make someone else think the same way as you do just because it doesn't make sense to you. If they have a different view about themselves just support it or at least accept it and chill. 

I wish i could like this more than once. 

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Sally

Myst, can you explain why you are leaving?  :unsure:  That's a serious question.  

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Nai

I'll miss you, Mysticus! :cake:

 

I'm all for inclusion and acceptance, but shouldn't a line be drawn at one point?

 

Like...one of my friends thought he was bi for a long time. He had ZERO attraction towards women, he just figured he couldn't be gay. NONE of us believed he was bisexual. (We all figured he was gay except him really :lol: But he was figuring himself out.) Every time he explained it to us, we would always say "Well...are you sure?" None of us said "Yeah, of course you're bi! If you say so!" After a few months he finally accepted that he was gay, we all congratulated him on figuring himself out and we moved along.

 

If we all accepted that he was bisexual and told him that he was right, wouldn't that just make him more confused, and take him longer to find out he was actually gay? Wouldn't we have been effectively sabotaging his journey of self-discovery? I guess what I'm trying to say is, if we just accept everyone who says "I'm asexual", are we not just doing bad for the site, but for those who are still trying to find out their sexuality? It took me a long while to find out I'm gray, and I think that's in part to having no one explain to me where I went wrong figuring myself out, having no one tell me "No, kid, you aren't asexual." That's just how I see it.

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Mysticus Insanus
15 minutes ago, Sally said:

Myst, can you explain why you are leaving?  :unsure:  That's a serious question.  

Irreconciliable differencesTM.

 

(Besides, this thread ain't about me. I've said the Big No to this announcement, as my conscience and integrity demanded, and then packed my bags... nothing more to see here.)

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CBC
1 hour ago, Kyon. said:

Has anything actually changed or is this just a reminder of how things are? (Genuine question!)

Nothing has changed. It's a reminder to make sure we're being politically correct and only marginally helpful to the multitude of people who actually flat-out ask "Am I asexual?"

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