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Coming out as agender


Ettina

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I'm writing a story and one of the characters is going to figure out that they're agender during the course of the story. So, a few questions for agender members, just to get an idea of real people's experiences with this. 

 

What was it that made you realize that you weren't cis? What made you realize that you were nonbinary? Did you figure out both of those at the same time?

 

Before you came out, where there subtle signs that an observant person could have noticed, that hinted at you being agender? (I just found out that my Dad knew that I wasn't into boys or girls long before I identified as aroace, so I'm wondering if anyone has experienced this sort of thing for their gender.)

 

What, if anything, did you think you were before you figured out you were agender? 

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1 hour ago, Ettina said:

What was it that made you realize that you weren't cis? What made you realize that you were nonbinary? Did you figure out both of those at the same time?

I was hanging around in this part of the forum for quite a while- and reading through the different words for different forms of NB- and I realized that I never related to gender in a way that a cis person would. For me, there's just nothing that screams Femininity or masculinity. 

 

1 hour ago, Ettina said:

Before you came out, where there subtle signs that an observant person could have noticed, that hinted at you being agender?

I guess in mannerisms? Most of the observant people where I live now seem to go by the creepy "you are what your genetalia are" type of attitude so I'm always called "lady" "ma'am" (not bad). But I've had bad experiences where random strangers will use the most gendered adjectives straight to my face and it's just.. It's as if they called me something terrible. 

 

1 hour ago, Ettina said:

What, if anything, did you think you were before you figured out you were agender?

Years ago I thought I was a non-conforming female, but since coming to this community- that's changed. 

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I'm not agender, but I identified as such for a while,  I think agender people don't perceive "manhood", "woomanhood" or any other gender, they prefer to be themselves over following any of  the

Rules imposed by society so they fit a gender.

some of them realize they are libramasculine, librafeminie, librandrogyne, libranonbinary, librafluid, etc as they still can feel connected to masculinity, femininity, androgyny, etc, without believing everything is gendered. They can't see anything as "gendered", agender people can't even see themselves like that.

there's also the cis-genderless folks who act "cisgender" bc society wants it and they don't mind it.

 

 

Please, don't confuse agender with neutrois,  neutrois folks feel sexless, unisex, gender neutral, and even if agender folks act gender neutral, they still don't believe they're gendered.

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People assume that you're cis, or, at the very least, binary. No one I know thought that I was anything but female before I had the realization that I'm really not. The only way anyone seems to suspect anything is if you give hints about it (which is hard to do if you don't know what you're hinting at).

 

The biggest factor for me in realizing that I'm agender was piecing together the fact that the vast majority of the "normal" situations and activities that I'm deeply uncomfortable in are those that have been gendered by society - more importantly, that they make me uncomfortable BECAUSE they're so gendered. For example, I have always dreaded and despised shopping for clothes - because I know that I'll be forced to try on feminine things, and walk down aisles and aisles of garments designed to emphasize the parts of my body that I'd rather hide, and I know that every word used for me in that time will be strongly gendered femininely. I would feel myself closing everyone and everything out, dropping my voice and speaking as little as possible, trying to hide myself and hating every thing I had to try on. Leaving felt like a physical weight had been lifted off of my shoulders. That's just one example. For me, everything down to "girl talk" feels the same way.

 

I'm going to stop there, though that isn't the only factor for me.

 

Before I realized that I'm not cis, I just kind of assumed I was. I had never really realized that I didn't have to be.

 

I know that this isn't true for everyone who identifies as agender. Just like any other gender identity, there are many different ways to be agender. Hopefully you'll get a lot of different perspectives!

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11 hours ago, Ettina said:

 

What was it that made you realize that you weren't cis? What made you realize that you were nonbinary? Did you figure out both of those at the same time?

I knew I didn't have "a strong connection" to my agab and sort of loosely thought of myself as genderqueer for a while, but definitely not trans. The big realization came after a conversation with my best friend and her explaining to me what being a cis woman felt like to her. And I was like...

After that I opened up to the possibility of being nb and I did a lot of research. It was a step-by-step process for me. Later I ended up as identifying as nb, then as trans too. After switching labels a few times I ended up with genderfluid, but most strongly connect to agender. I still consider myself primarily as agender even when I am transmasc if that makes sense.

 

11 hours ago, Ettina said:

Before you came out, where there subtle signs that an observant person could have noticed, that hinted at you being agender?

Idk. I was kind of a proud feminist woman before my realization (*shudder*). I disliked gender roles and stereotypes. I hated being treated as *a woman*. The whole thing is a combination of gender identity and feminist ideas. Nobody thought it was about gender as much as it was about feminism, including myself.

 

11 hours ago, Ettina said:

What, if anything, did you think you were before you figured out you were agender? 

see above. I considered being genderqueer but still thought I was primarily a woman - by default and because I wasn't a man either.

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I guess I was a bit unclear - by hints, I didn't mean just "did someone else figure it out completely" but "did someone think you were weird for reasons that you now know are due to your gender?

 

Also, does this sound plausible as a hint to informed readers that my character is agender before they come out?

 

 They're going to gym class with their cis female friend (they're AFAB, she's the perspective character). They go to the female change room out of habit, and the fact that their friend is going there. Then, later in gym class, the gym teacher splits the class by sex and they head for the boys' side, get corrected, and sheepishly go to the girls' side and are kind of subdued for a little while. (The cis friend has no clue what is bothering them, she just thinks that they're embarrassed by their silly mistake.)     

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I mean, it's possible that this might happen to an agender person. I personally never grouped myself in with guys. It was much more about my boobs jiggling while running or using in the changing rooms and people seeing me in my underwear. (I mean I also had social anxiety but there was still dysphoria at play).

And I started to hate swimming because of the whole body/swimwear situation. 

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I realized I wasn't cis after an accumulation of things. I cut my hair short (I'm afab) and later realized why I really wanted to (to be more androgynous). Whenever asked I told people that I never did anything with my hair and I wanted something new. Then my friend commented (and complimented) how androgynous I looked and I was not expecting how happy that made me. So I researched, and I thought, researched and thought. (At some point I was hanging with my sister and some extended family I never really knew I had and one guy asked if I was her brother and I wasn't mad. Mostly happy at not being pinned as a girl right away. But still not on board with this definitely a girl or guy thing). At this point I considered myself genderfluid becaus it did seem to change. I thought about how people refered to me and realized my discomfort at being solidly called a girl and other feminine things. ('Female, I found okay because that's sex, not gender.) This is when I turned to genderneutral and genderless definitions and experiences. During this part of researching I though about demifemale as an identity. (That 'seem to change' is refering to gender expression). Now I feel most comfortable with Non-Binary with a leaning towards agender. So there's maybe a year between realizing I wasn't cis and identifying as NB.

6 hours ago, Ettina said:

They're going to gym class with their cis female friend (they're AFAB, she's the perspective character). They go to the female change room out of habit, and the fact that their friend is going there. Then, later in gym class, the gym teacher splits the class by sex and they head for the boys' side, get corrected, and sheepishly go to the girls' side and are kind of subdued for a little while. (The cis friend has no clue what is bothering them, she just thinks that they're embarrassed by their silly mistake.)     

Personally I took this hint more as the character being trans (or some masculine gender orientation). If you're aiming for an agender character maybe instead of heading towards the boys' side make them stand there as everyone moves away to opposite sides, leaving them in the middle, unsure where to go and thus someone still has to point them to the females' side, something that was obvious to outsiders. Maybe some jeering/jokes from people if being left in the middle was too subtle. (Hope you don't mind suggestions. I'm a writer too and I like helping others.)

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10 hours ago, ReyGraves said:

I realized I wasn't cis after an accumulation of things. I cut my hair short (I'm afab) and later realized why I really wanted to (to be more androgynous). Whenever asked I told people that I never did anything with my hair and I wanted something new. Then my friend commented (and complimented) how androgynous I looked and I was not expecting how happy that made me. So I researched, and I thought, researched and thought. (At some point I was hanging with my sister and some extended family I never really knew I had and one guy asked if I was her brother and I wasn't mad. Mostly happy at not being pinned as a girl right away. But still not on board with this definitely a girl or guy thing). At this point I considered myself genderfluid becaus it did seem to change. I thought about how people refered to me and realized my discomfort at being solidly called a girl and other feminine things. ('Female, I found okay because that's sex, not gender.) This is when I turned to genderneutral and genderless definitions and experiences. During this part of researching I though about demifemale as an identity. (That 'seem to change' is refering to gender expression). Now I feel most comfortable with Non-Binary with a leaning towards agender. So there's maybe a year between realizing I wasn't cis and identifying as NB.

Personally I took this hint more as the character being trans (or some masculine gender orientation). If you're aiming for an agender character maybe instead of heading towards the boys' side make them stand there as everyone moves away to opposite sides, leaving them in the middle, unsure where to go and thus someone still has to point them to the females' side, something that was obvious to outsiders. Maybe some jeering/jokes from people if being left in the middle was too subtle. (Hope you don't mind suggestions. I'm a writer too and I like helping others.)

Thanks! 

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A more recent experience I had that might give you an idea (maybe? this was after I realized I am agender) was when I went to the local Renaissance Fair this year. One of my female friends didn't have a costume, and my brother wasn't going, so I offered to let her wear my costume and I wore my brother's. Fast forward to the fair, and I got called "sir" right when we got there. This made me so happy that I was still thinking about it at the end of the day when we left. I mentioned it in the car, and my friends (none of whom I'm out to) were really confused about why I was happy about it. One of them even tried to reassure me that I looked like a girl and that she had no idea how the person could have thought that I might not be. This made me really confused and a bit sad, actually. I'm not male. It was just the idea that I might not be assumed to be female by every single person I saw that made my day, even if that means that they think I'm the other binary gender.

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Well i guess there are a lot of things. How uncomfortable i always was when someone called me a girl or "young woman" (ugh). How I didn't liked dresses and stereotypically "girly" things. But i guess there are two moments in my life that are the most important.

 

One was that i always thought that I'll just be one of thid girls that are a "child" and then are a "woman", no "girl" in the middle. You know, i just felt like a person. Never like a girl. So I just translated it to a "child" and thought that i'll just transform like some sailor moon or something into a "woman" in a few years. Because everyone said that it of course will happen because every "girl" will be a "woman" one day. And they were kinda right. I've just never been a "girl" in the first place. Oh and it was heppening when i was about 13-15 years old, so yeah quite old, it says something. 

 

And the second one is that for some short time i considered if i'm trans. In binary sense. I just never felt like a girl so you know, i have to be a boy ... right? But after some time i came to a conclusion that i don't really feel like a boy either. I just feel like a person. And i let it be for some time. And then 2 or 3 years later i came across the "agender" definition and something finally sounded like me. 

 

And no, no one ever thought that anything about me was "weird" or "not quite right" because i always was like that. I always was lets say a tomboy and they just thought it'll pass once i'm old enough. Well. It didn't. As far as I know they still have hope. Because you know. I'm a girl. Being a woman i apparently inevitable. 

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  • 1 month later...
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i have a story here...

 

I was reading a fanfic, inukagome15's The Last Archangel, and i saw the pronouns ne/nem. I was writing my own spn fanfic at the time and i had ad thoughts of the angels being fully gender-less. So i looked up gender neutral pronouns.

 

I looked at them and they just felt right. They made me happy. 

 

As I started to write my angel character, I realised I needed to see nb people's experiences. So I went on the gender wikia... somewhere along the way it became about me, less about nem. 

 

I found agender and I honestly broke down into tears, and though I am no longer identifying solely as agender (indeed, I'm thinking about transmasculine), that was my turning point.

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14 hours ago, rivkael said:

i have a story here...

 

I was reading a fanfic, inukagome15's The Last Archangel, and i saw the pronouns ne/nem. I was writing my own spn fanfic at the time and i had ad thoughts of the angels being fully gender-less. So i looked up gender neutral pronouns.

 

I looked at them and they just felt right. They made me happy. 

 

As I started to write my angel character, I realised I needed to see nb people's experiences. So I went on the gender wikia... somewhere along the way it became about me, less about nem. 

 

I found agender and I honestly broke down into tears, and though I am no longer identifying solely as agender (indeed, I'm thinking about transmasculine), that was my turning point.

Okay, I just wanna say, that's amazing, how you found things that related to you.

 

Also, LOVE THAT FANFIC!!! I've read it almost three times now. I read it near the beginning of my identity quest. I liked the ne/nem pronouns. I was thinking of using those for myself at one point but then I got to thinking and I like they/them. I decided to write a story using ne/nem pronouns (a genderless demon (who previously identified as female but bad stuff happened and ne went back to nir genderless identity))

 

It was refreshing to read about a genderless character. This is why representation in the media is so important. 

 

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AVEN #1 fan
1 hour ago, Ricchan said:

@AVEN #1 fan What is the difference between Neutrois and Agender?

Agender or genderless folks understand what gender is, they just rather not
Believe in it and don't see it. For them things don't have gender, they rather not call objects  feminine, masculine, androgynous, etc. for them a piece of clothing , gendered folks would call feminine/masculine/androgynous, is just clothing. They rather see themselves as being only human rather than as feminine, masculine, androgynous, neutral, etc. Agender folks have different thoughts on what's their preferred gender expression, it's all subjective, agender folks don't follow any gender model, so they may like to  express themselves as what gendered fellows would call masculine, feminine, androgynous or even unisex. Since each of them has a different gender expression and theres no manual of what's an agender looks like, they all may feel different kinds of gender dysphoria. Many of them try looking androgynous or unisex though to be not considered man or woman, but they can behave in any way rly. Agender is an umbrella term, Some agenders identify as libragender too.

 

 

Neutrois folks on the other hand are gendered and see the world as gendered, they see clothing as feminine, masculine, androgynous, unisex, etc, unlike the agenders. Neutrois folks prefer to express themselves as gender neutral or unisex and enjoy trying to behave like that. the body dysphoria they experience is linked to having no sexual or gender trait all, many of them desire to get these traits removed and live like a sexless nullo.

 

 

There's a debate going on whether or not Neutrois are under the agender umbrella or the androgyne umbrella.the term Neutrois appeared for the first time inside the androgyne community in the 90s as an gender identity for an specific kind of androgyne who desire to have no gender traits at all.

Neutrois folks already existed away before the term was coined.
 

 

 

 

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@AVEN #1 fan (tagging not quoting to save space :P ) That's interesting. I always went with agender, but Neutrois feels more apt.

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AVEN #1 fan
1 minute ago, Ricchan said:

@AVEN #1 fan (tagging not quoting to save space :P ) That's interesting. I always went with agender, but Neutrois feels more apt.

Well, the difference is tiny, if you ask what's the difference BTW an man and an masculine agender, the man prefers to see things as gendered and the agender dont

And what's the difference BTW an unisex agender and an neutrois, it's the same as above, the neutrois see gender in their world.

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Alex the Queer

i'm afab and agender, and for me my discovery was like this. i've always just assumed i was cis. never really had any thoughts about my gender beyond the random, hypothetical what-ifs with no actual weight behind them. within the past year or so i've been getting very involved with the LGBT+ community (i had at least somewhat figured out my sexuality about a year before my gender) and i had seen a few things with people discussing questioning their gender, how they realized they weren't cis, etc. and one day i randomly started thinking to myself "yeah. i'm a girl, i'm a female. i am a woman" and i just realized that no matter what i did or how i said it or thought of it, it just didn't feel right and i couldn't say that positively and know it was true, because it wasn't. at first i started identifying as a demigirl, but overtime i was getting more and more uncomfortable and dysphoric with the wrong pronouns and pretty much anything involving me and being female. so i started delving into it a bit more, and finally started identifying with the label agender, and i'm positive that it fits right and is who i am. 

 

before i found myself, i don't think there's really anything that would've hinted to my identity. since i was young i've had a very feminine dress style, though i do want to start dressing more androgynously. i love wearing makeup. the way i look has  always been very female/feminine.  and there's really nothing else that would be at all indicative. i do have a very androgynous, genderless personality. there's nothing to me and my personality that is really anything associated with the binary genders. nothing very stereotypically male or female , and my interests and hobbies are just basic things that don't have any sort of societal gender connotations. so i have a very androgynous personality and mannerisms, but nothing to the point where it might seem suspicious or indicative of my gender; nothing beyond the basic nerdy, music kid with things that are seen as the same for either binary gender.

 

as i already said, for pretty much all of my life i assumed i was cis. never a shadow of a doubt that i wasn't a boy, and the fact that that's what i was born as so i must've been a girl was all there was to it. then when i first started questioning i identified as demigirl before finding agender.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/18/2017 at 7:33 PM, Ettina said:

Before you came out, where there subtle signs that an observant person could have noticed, that hinted at you being agender?

-cutting my hair really short

-always wore t-shirts & jeans because they were neutral(and avoiding feminine clothes)

-strangers referring to me as "sir"/he on a few occasions 

-(in theatre) requesting to play "male" parts because I don't really see why I shouldn't be able to

-syntax/diction:  referring to people with gender neutral "dude" & "guys" (which isn't particularly common where I live).  I guess avoiding feminine-coded speech patterns and interspersing some masc./neutral stuff instead

 

good luck with your story!

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