Taking the talk again!

[MrDane]

I am a 40+ sexual, with an asexual wife, who discovered her stance 15 years into our marriage. We have occasional, scheduled sex and she likes it and orgasms, but never feel the desire for it, could easily live without and though being nice, it doesnt give her that much apart from loss of sleep. It is for my sake.

I would call her ace with some aro-tendency, but not all touch aversion. She is touch responsive, but only in genital area and sex needs to be put in a certain timeframe. 

 

Anyway!!!

 

What really hurts, is that she doesnt have a desire for me. It feels like I am in love and craves her like a lovesick teenager. She acts a bit more like a roommate and close friend, who occasionally accepts sex with me. 

 

 

I migth stress her even more, but need to tell and discuss our mutual agreement. I hope! That I can do it without sounding like being neglected, but I do at the same time, want her to amp up her show of affection for me. I feel lonely! I am not sure, that she can, but at least we can talk about it, and she can tell more about how she would like our arrangement to be. ...and perhaps acknowledge, that I think about it a lot. And I dont think she does. It just doesnt pop up on her radar. 

 

HOW OFTEN AND HOW DO YOU TAKE THE TALK ABOUT SEX?

[Blondbear]

 

Well. the way I see it you are literally married to somebody who has a different sexual orientation. It's like if you were married to a lesbian, for me that's crazy that you can/want to live like that but if you chose to then you have to accept the way she is. 

Why don't you look for an open marriage or try to break up in an amicable way and find a new wife?

[AthenaFay]

2 hours ago, Blondbear said:

 

Well. the way I see it you are literally married to somebody who has a different sexual orientation. It's like if you were married to a lesbian, for me that's crazy that you can/want to live like that but if you chose to then you have to accept the way she is. 

Why don't you look for an open marriage or try to break up in an amicable way and find a new wife?

I agree with this, and I wanted too to warn of the effects remaining in a relationship with someone who can't meet your needs. It can have repercussions for both parties which can outlast a broken relationship. I am almost 2 years out of my relationship with my asexual aromantic ex and I have long-standing issues with believing that anyone could want to have sex with me. I worry that my new partner will soon tell me that he's asexual. 

 

You deserve to feel satisfied in a relationship, and your partner deserves to feel like she isn't "not enough" (I think this is how it can feel for asexuals in relationships with sexuals at times). 

[cheshers]

As an asexual in a relationship with a sexual, I feel like I can bring some asexual perspective into this.

 

On 2017-02-17 at 0:55 AM, MrDane said:

What really hurts, is that she doesnt have a desire for me.

She doesn't have a sexual desire for you because, as someone previously said, this is her orientation. If she still agrees to have sex with you, even if it's on a schedule and you both acknowledge that she could live without it, I'm inclined to believe it's because her romantic feelings are not only present but strong. I'm not sure if you're aware of the differences? If not, it couldn't hurt to do some of that research here on AVEN. I know I would appreciate my sexual boyfriend putting the effort into understanding, and then bringing that knowledge into our conversation.

 

You do have to acknowledge that your needs are different. If you require sex more often for this relationship to continue, then you need to be honest with her and give her a chance to potentially be willing to do that; but if she's truly asexual than you cannot expect her stance on being able to live without it to change. You, too, have to be able to accept aspects of who she is. She might not want to have sex with you, but from what you've said it sounds like she wants you enough to at times put her own needs aside to make you happier. 

 

In short, you need to have a conversation. If she can't do more than she already is, then you need to decide whether or not it's time to look for a new relationship. It's not easy for relationships between people with different orientations to survive, and while it might be difficult to part ways after so many years of marriage, it could very well be a relief to find new people that are better suited to your needs. 

[MrDane]

14 hours ago, cheshers said:

As an asexual in a relationship with a sexual, I feel like I can bring some asexual perspective into this.

 

She doesn't have a sexual desire for you because, as someone previously said, this is her orientation. If she still agrees to have sex with you, even if it's on a schedule and you both acknowledge that she could live without it, I'm inclined to believe it's because her romantic feelings are not only present but strong. I'm not sure if you're aware of the differences? If not, it couldn't hurt to do some of that research here on AVEN. I know I would appreciate my sexual boyfriend putting the effort into understanding, and then bringing that knowledge into our conversation.

 

You do have to acknowledge that your needs are different. If you require sex more often for this relationship to continue, then you need to be honest with her and give her a chance to potentially be willing to do that; but if she's truly asexual than you cannot expect her stance on being able to live without it to change. You, too, have to be able to accept aspects of who she is. She might not want to have sex with you, but from what you've said it sounds like she wants you enough to at times put her own needs aside to make you happier. 

 

In short, you need to have a conversation. If she can't do more than she already is, then you need to decide whether or not it's time to look for a new relationship. It's not easy for relationships between people with different orientations to survive, and while it might be difficult to part ways after so many years of marriage, it could very well be a relief to find new people that are better suited to your needs. 

Thanks for the reply! I love my wife and she loves me. I have no doubt about that. I know and appreciate that she compromises and tries to meet my sexual need. She is not romantic by default towards me, as in kiss/touch/caress/cuddle as a daily way/drive towards showing love/affection/togetherness. 

 

What I wanted to know was, how often other 'mixed couples' take the sextalk about how, how often and why/why not! I have prior to this had a tendency to gulp  the frustration up and build it up inside, then waiting till the worst point ever, adressing it while super-frustrated, maybe crying like a neglected baby. These times are not the best for openhearted and mature discussions of an important couples-issue.

 

in fact: everytime we have really talked, I have gradually 'lost ground'! Therefore I fear for those talks. I know, that my next talk will take place closely after a nice sex date with my lovely wife. Then I will be in more hormonal balance and she will not expect me to expect sexy times for a few weeks.

[MrDane]

18 hours ago, Blondbear said:

 

Well. the way I see it you are literally married to somebody who has a different sexual orientation. It's like if you were married to a lesbian, for me that's crazy that you can/want to live like that but if you chose to then you have to accept the way she is. 

Why don't you look for an open marriage or try to break up in an amicable way and find a new wife?

Yes, I'm married to an asexual, with a low need for touch/kiss. 

No, it is not like being married to a lesbian, since a 'normal' lesbian would have a drive towards having sex with another girl. But neither part have a direct drive towards me, a male sexual. 

We love eachother a lot and are apart from the 'sex issue' quite a good couple and agree on our parenting role and never argue. 

As a monogamous male, I have a desire to be with only her. 

I think, I do accept the way she is. 

 

What I wanted to know was: how often and under which circumstances do other mixed couples take the 'sex talk'! You know, talking about how, how often, why/why not...

 

'honey, I would like to discuss something with you, when the kids are asleep!'

 

(Note to self: best to talk while not feeling super-frustrated and lonely. Try not to cry like a baby this time. Perhaps a day or two after a good sex date, while I am full of good afterfeelings and she is not stressed out because of expectations of a new sex date.)

[MrDane]

15 hours ago, AthenaFay said:

I agree with this, and I wanted too to warn of the effects remaining in a relationship with someone who can't meet your needs. It can have repercussions for both parties which can outlast a broken relationship. I am almost 2 years out of my relationship with my asexual aromantic ex and I have long-standing issues with believing that anyone could want to have sex with me. I worry that my new partner will soon tell me that he's asexual. 

 

You deserve to feel satisfied in a relationship, and your partner deserves to feel like she isn't "not enough" (I think this is how it can feel for asexuals in relationships with sexuals at times). 

I mostly agree with you. Sex and intimacy is a great and very important issue, and the lack of it, is why I tend to feel lonely, even while being with 'the girl of the dry parts of my dreams'! ...but she is still the love of my life and a great mother and the nicest and most clever and comfortable person being around. 

 

My question was mostly about how often, mixed couples take the sex talk. How/how much/why/why not! You know, talking about mutual needs and how it is going with the compromises...?

[Tarfeather]

I make it a point to tell my partner about my sexual attraction to her when I get a particularly strong urge. Not in a "we should have sex now" sense, just in a "reminding you that this is how I am and it's really important to me" sense. Basically, try to express yourself as much as possible without making your wife uncomfortable. This of course involves finding ways to alleviate her fears with regards to this topic, which in turn means detaching your sexual nature from placing any sort of sexual expectations on her.

[Guest]

Personally, I don't see the point in rehashing the conversation of sex / why / when unless there is something to be changed. Why talk about how you are incompatible just to point it out ? I don't point out how my partners can't give me things I need unless the conversation can be productive, rather than just making them feel bad about not providing something. 

[MrDane]

10 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

I make it a point to tell my partner about my sexual attraction to her when I get a particularly strong urge. Not in a "we should have sex now" sense, just in a "reminding you that this is how I am and it's really important to me" sense. Basically, try to express yourself as much as possible without making your wife uncomfortable. This of course involves finding ways to alleviate her fears with regards to this topic, which in turn means detaching your sexual nature from placing any sort of sexual expectations on her.

Yes! ...and if I adress it in a non-expecting way, but more like casually mentioning it, that does make it more possible!

[MrDane]

3 hours ago, Kheîma said:

Personally, I don't see the point in rehashing the conversation of sex / why / when unless there is something to be changed. Why talk about how you are incompatible just to point it out ? I don't point out how my partners can't give me things I need unless the conversation can be productive, rather than just making them feel bad about not providing something. 

Agree, why just point out incompabilities for fun!?

...but what about if 

a. I worry if our agreement is putting to much strain on her.

b. I have unfulfilled sexual fantasies

c. I worry about our common future

d. I just have questions about how she sees our sex life and if it is the same as I think it is.

e. I would like something to change, since I fear for her getting bored, and eventually me too.

f. I need her to help me/us

g. I feel alone, though I am in a loving relationship

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MrDane said:

Agree, why just point out incompabilities for fun!?

...but what about if 

a. I worry if our agreement is putting to much strain on her.

b. I have unfulfilled sexual fantasies

c. I worry about our common future

d. I just have questions about how she sees our sex life and if it is the same as I think it is.

e. I would like something to change, since I fear for her getting bored, and eventually me too.

f. I need her to help me/us

g. I feel alone, though I am in a loving relationship

A I would do, B I would not, C I would not, D I would, E I would, F I would, G I would not. 

[Blondbear]

12 hours ago, MrDane said:

Yes, I'm married to an asexual, with a low need for touch/kiss. 

No, it is not like being married to a lesbian, since a 'normal' lesbian would have a drive towards having sex with another girl. But neither part have a direct drive towards me, a male sexual. 

We love eachother a lot and are apart from the 'sex issue' quite a good couple and agree on our parenting role and never argue. 

As a monogamous male, I have a desire to be with only her. 

I think, I do accept the way she is. 

 

What I wanted to know was: how often and under which circumstances do other mixed couples take the 'sex talk'! You know, talking about how, how often, why/why not...

 

'honey, I would like to discuss something with you, when the kids are asleep!'

 

(Note to self: best to talk while not feeling super-frustrated and lonely. Try not to cry like a baby this time. Perhaps a day or two after a good sex date, while I am full of good afterfeelings and she is not stressed out because of expectations of a new sex date.)

 

Well, it's not exactly like she is a lesbian because she is not lesbian but it is very similar situation in the sense that she doesn't feel attracted to you and doesn't feel the need to show you love by touching, in fact she could even be a closeted lesbian who didn't know herself enough and you could not notice the difference. (in fact that's something that happens a lot when a gay person who didn't accept himself or know himself enough marries)

 

Having said that the important thing is that you both are happy, if you both are happy then the relationship is worth saving, I think it's nor important what other couple do or how much they talk about it but the amount of times that it's important to talk for both of you.

[closetPonyfan]

I really appreciate this thread because this is along similar lines of what I was thinking about, and in answering (I hope)  your question I too gain some idea of what I need to do. 

 

Obviously communication is key. And what I'd suggest is to not think of 'the talk'  as such a big thing, but rather try to get to a place where there is a constant dialog about your feelings and desires. So that every day, you and she are able to express you're feelings. So you're comfortable talking about when you're hurting, and when you're happy. And she too will be able to tell you how she's feeling and if it's too much or anxiety causing. Plus you may gain insight from her as to what you do non-sexually that she loves about you. 

 

 

Though I offer this suggestion, my wife of 3+ years now, identifies as aro-ace. They are also currently looking into a-gender identities. And so I know communication is key and all but... 

 

I see asexuality getting more and more awareness which is great. And people telling their stories. I just read one article "what is like to date as an asexual" where people talked about the ups and downs of a relationship as an Ace, and learning to make it work. But I feel isolated. Plenty of Ace people testify that, "I still love my partner, I'm just not into the sex part". But my wife is aromantic. And I can't stop feeling like she doesn't love me. 

 

She made a list of the reasons a relationship with me is good for her. I guess it made me happy at first. I hang it on my desk at work. But everytime I read it, it just sounds like I'm being used. She wants the relationship for the security of it. I'm convenient, and not a negative force in her life. Which, given their mental illness (severe anxiety and depression) is huge for them. "she loves me in her way" but what way is that? I feel like a roommate, paying all the rent, while she does all the housework. 

 

Honestly one of the worst things is, when she's talking to a friend or coming out to someone and they ask "how does that work in a relationship?"  and she smiles and says "we make it work." she doesn't even know... No it isn't working. No we aren't 'figuring it out'  we're ignoring the problem. But anyway we do try to discuss it,  her anxiety flares up and she cries herself to sleep, and is then depressed for a week. 

 

Everyone wants love and validation. Not just as a community, but individually. That love and validation is a need for mental health. And I feel like I get none from this relationship. And worse, I'm the bad guy if I talk about it, because it's not her fault. Well I know that, and I don't blame her for being who she is. I know it's my fault for not being strong enough to speak up. To say that I do have needs. To recognize when sometimes leaving is what's best for me. And really, I know it's my fault, and I prefer it that way. I don't want to leave. If nothing changes and I am always in this pain, I'd prefer to stay in. I just need a place to cry sometimes. And get a bit of love, and validation. 

 

[MrDane]

24 minutes ago, closetPonyfan said:

I really appreciate this thread because this is along similar lines of what I was thinking about, and in answering (I hope)  your question I too gain some idea of what I need to do. 

 

Obviously communication is key. And what I'd suggest is to not think of 'the talk'  as such a big thing, but rather try to get to a place where there is a constant dialog about your feelings and desires. So that every day, you and she are able to express you're feelings. So you're comfortable talking about when you're hurting, and when you're happy. And she too will be able to tell you how she's feeling and if it's too much or anxiety causing. Plus you may gain insight from her as to what you do non-sexually that she loves about you. 

 

 

Though I offer this suggestion, my wife of 3+ years now, identifies as aro-ace. They are also currently looking into a-gender identities. And so I know communication is key and all but... 

 

I see asexuality getting more and more awareness which is great. And people telling their stories. I just read one article "what is like to date as an asexual" where people talked about the ups and downs of a relationship as an Ace, and learning to make it work. But I feel isolated. Plenty of Ace people testify that, "I still love my partner, I'm just not into the sex part". But my wife is aromantic. And I can't stop feeling like she doesn't love me. 

 

She made a list of the reasons a relationship with me is good for her. I guess it made me happy at first. I hang it on my desk at work. But everytime I read it, it just sounds like I'm being used. She wants the relationship for the security of it. I'm convenient, and not a negative force in her life. Which, given their mental illness (severe anxiety and depression) is huge for them. "she loves me in her way" but what way is that? I feel like a roommate, paying all the rent, while she does all the housework. 

 

Honestly one of the worst things is, when she's talking to a friend or coming out to someone and they ask "how does that work in a relationship?"  and she smiles and says "we make it work." she doesn't even know... No it isn't working. No we aren't 'figuring it out'  we're ignoring the problem. But anyway we do try to discuss it,  her anxiety flares up and she cries herself to sleep, and is then depressed for a week. 

 

Everyone wants love and validation. Not just as a community, but individually. That love and validation is a need for mental health. And I feel like I get none from this relationship. And worse, I'm the bad guy if I talk about it, because it's not her fault. Well I know that, and I don't blame her for being who she is. I know it's my fault for not being strong enough to speak up. To say that I do have needs. To recognize when sometimes leaving is what's best for me. And really, I know it's my fault, and I prefer it that way. I don't want to leave. If nothing changes and I am always in this pain, I'd prefer to stay in. I just need a place to cry sometimes. And get a bit of love, and validation. 

 

I know! You feel lonely or like you would feel if your partner had lost interest in you.  You start thinking, that you will burden her, by adressing what could be a mutual problem, and not just your problem, but it doesnt fly in on her radar..  You feel like saying out, what you would like, will move you further away from getting it. "I would like us to have more sex" = less sex. Not saying anything, migth result in the same. Last time I adressed my concern and hoped for a "sorry, yeah of course I want sex with you. I love you, but just tend to forget you/us, since Im just so stressed out!" Became a "no, sorry! But I actually never wanted sex. Doesnt give me much and I could probably do without." I am terrified for talking about it again. I feel so stupid about having made a lot of suggestions for spicing up the sex life, when all that she wanted was to spice it down. 

I figth to stay with her and to keep believing that I am also worth living with, even though I constantly pressure her, just by being a sexual person. I think i have shown her a ton of patience regarding our love life. 

I am terrified to think about what could happen, when/if her hormonones during menopause could turn her completely off and even say no to the more mechanical, scheduled sex. We are getting closer to pity-sex.