Chorvus Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hi there. Just figured out recently I'm aro as well as ace, and that realization has been fraught with the fact that, despite my best efforts, society and my surroundings continually reinforce, both overtly and subtly, the idea that a romantic or sexual relationship is superior to a strictly platonic one. Realistically I believe and feel that platonic attachments are of equal importance, but I've also internalized the entire concept of "more than friends" and "just friends" with their associated ranks. Given that I'm aromantic, single, and don't know anyone like myself in real life, I feel very upset about this. I don't think a romantic or sexual relationship would make me happy (but then again, I don't actually know this), but I still hold myself to that societal standard and (obviously) find myself lacking. I have never dated or kissed anyone (another thing that I find myself feeling alienated for despite also not wanting either). I think it would be nice to have a partner whom I cared about deeply (and who cared for me equally), but I don't have anyone who seems to have the same ideal (as in, without sexual activity or romance, I guess?). In this regard I feel very lonely; I understand that other people share their lives with both, and I'm delighted for those that find loving stable relationships that make them happy, but it's very alienating to feel like no one else would even consider a life like the one I might like. (I guess you could say I haven't found the right person yet, but that's... idk). Many of my friends date, and there's always the implication that this is their 'one special person', who is different and better than friends. I understand that there is a distinction between people you care for platonically and romantically (or sexually I guess?) but it would be very comforting to know others who consider platonic relationships to be just as good and emotionally fulfilled as romantic ones. This is where a lot of my insecurities lie, I think. Coming to truly trust and care for and be comfortable with people (as friends) takes me a long time, and so advice to "loosen up" in the relationship area would probably stress me out a whole lot. Things like honest and open communication, respect for boundaries, trust, and comfort take a while to establish and are things that I need before I establish (in my mind) an official friendship with anyone? I have very good and strong friendships, and I think I would be absolutely fine with just continuing on in this way if there weren't the constant striving these friends do to attain romantic/sexual relationships. I suppose it makes me feel like I'm not enough? I just wanted to put all this somewhere, and ask if anyone else had issues addressing the hierarchy of relationships? Link to post Share on other sites
Arctangent Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Have you heard of relationship anarchy (RA)? I didn't see any mention of it in your post, but it seems similar to what you're talking about. It's an approach to relationships that eschews implicit social hierarchies, like the assumption that romantic/sexual relationships are always more valuable than non-romantic/non-sexual ones. I am a relationship anarchist, and while I can experience romantic feelings (I think), romantic relationships aren't inherently more important to me. The same goes for sexual relationships. I could easily have a platonic cuddle buddies relationship that is as important to me as a romantic sexual relationship. I'm also non-monogamous (most RA people probably are), so I could even have both those relationships at the same time, and the romantic partner wouldn't automatically get priority over the non-romantic one. Being RA doesn't mean that all my relationships are equal. Naturally, I'm still closer to some people than others - I'd still value friends over acquaintances, for example. However, I do tend to judge the value of my closest relationships independently of whether romance or sex is involved. I have a hard time distinguishing between romantic and non-romantic feelings sometimes anyway, so it's less headache for me if I consider my relationships on a case-by-case basis. I'm a bit of an oddball in that way. Of course, this is a pretty unconventional view, and it's not super common. However, I've had some success forming intimate relationships with fellow RA people before, and there are other examples of people making it work. It is definitely possible. Link to post Share on other sites
sindi Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I haven't had a meaningful romantic/sexual relationship either, so it's hard to say how I would act if I was in one, but it certainly has hurt me when my close friends have automatically put the friendship in the second place after starting to date someone. But yeah, I guess I have internalized something about that hierarchy, because it makes me feel guilty and selfish to even say, that I've felt hurt about those situations! What comes to my own innate hierarchy, it seems to have a lot to do with how long I have known a person (well, unless I disliked them or never knew them closely). My birth family - mother and brother - are on a whole different level from other relationships, and I can't imagine someone I recently got to know being a top priority. Of course I don't mean, that I would neglect my partner and spend way more time with my mother and brother than with them (if I had a partner), but fundamentally I think my partner would, at most, be as important as my birth family, if even that. Also my childhood friend that I'm not even very close with anymore is very high in the hierarchy. As for now, seems that she doesn't need me or care much for me, but if her life situation would change and she would suddenly want to be close with me again, I would prioritize that above any recent friendships. That might sound unfair to someone with other priorities, but in the same way it feels unfair to me, that someone I've known for years would abandon me over someone they recently met. Link to post Share on other sites
Robin L Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I also haven't had a romantic relationship before, but this is something I find to be important. The people in a relationship are still individuals. The relationship should not be the only focus in their lives. That means having some separate social lives, and having some non-mutual friends. I don't think a relationship should be inherently more important than other relationships. However, family should always be a priority. Link to post Share on other sites
borkfork Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 There are people out there who believe romantic and/or sexual relationships aren't inherently more important. My friends and I started talking about this in our mid-20s, well before I had heard of asexuality as an orientation or any closely associated concepts. I remember my friend telling her boyfriend it was cute that he thought he was going to get some sort of priority. Most are typical sexuals, a few are poly or swingers, I'm romantic ace, another friend of mine is aro-ace-ish, but hasn't said anything. I shy away from official RA because I'm monogamous, my partner even more so. I feel like I get enough flack from polyamorous people in the kink community. I don't believe one's emotional needs can all be met by one person. People too often confuse codependency with love. Growing up our parents are usually our model for a relationship and I saw mine have their own hobbies and their own friends as well as things they did together. Link to post Share on other sites
Mychemicalqpr Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 hour ago, borkfork said: I shy away from official RA because I'm monogamous, my partner even more so. I feel like I get enough flack from polyamorous people in the kink community. I just wanted to say wow, that sucks. As a probably polyamorous person myself, it bothers me that others would bug you about it. It doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. We're all different. I've considered relationship anarchy. I haven't really committed to the label just yet, but I agree with not giving romantic partners automatic priority over others. Link to post Share on other sites
Arctangent Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 hour ago, borkfork said: I shy away from official RA because I'm monogamous, my partner even more so. I feel like I get enough flack from polyamorous people in the kink community. I have seen some discussion about whether monogamous people can be RA in online solo poly/RA communities. I don't think there's actually a consensus yet. It's difficult to nail down exactly what the essence of RA is... My own opinion is that it would be possible to be RA and in a monogamous relationship, although it would be pretty unusual! I do understand your hesitance, though, as there are unfortunately some poly elitists in the poly community. Link to post Share on other sites
borkfork Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 6:33 PM, Law of Circles said: I have seen some discussion about whether monogamous people can be RA in online solo poly/RA communities. I don't think there's actually a consensus yet. It's difficult to nail down exactly what the essence of RA is... My own opinion is that it would be possible to be RA and in a monogamous relationship, although it would be pretty unusual! I do understand your hesitance, though, as there are unfortunately some poly elitists in the poly community. I think it has to allow for some things which would be unusual in a conventional romantic relationship. For example, the emotionally intimate friendships I have would be seen as cheating. I still hug my male friends. My life isn't going to drastically change because I have a partner, he just becomes a part of it. People too often confuse codependency with love. Link to post Share on other sites
Chorvus Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 2:13 AM, sindi said: I haven't had a meaningful romantic/sexual relationship either, so it's hard to say how I would act if I was in one, but it certainly has hurt me when my close friends have automatically put the friendship in the second place after starting to date someone. But yeah, I guess I have internalized something about that hierarchy, because it makes me feel guilty and selfish to even say, that I've felt hurt about those situations! >:0 Yeah! This! It makes me feel so bad to even bring up this stuff with my friends, because it's A) Not really their fault that I'm having issues dealing with being alone, and B) Bringing it up would seem like I fault them, and then the whole "Oh so us being in a relationship bothers you" stuff starts. And in the end it really isn't even about them. (It's about me! Or you, in this case.) On 1/18/2017 at 7:39 PM, borkfork said: I shy away from official RA because I'm monogamous, my partner even more so. I feel like I get enough flack from polyamorous people in the kink community. I don't know if official RA is for me either, because I think I kind of do think about a "traditional" monogamous relationship, just... scaled far away from romance. Since it appears? seems? that RA is more for those who might be interested in multiple partners of different sorts, it definitely wouldn't be something that would make me super comfortable? On 1/18/2017 at 9:09 PM, twilightstarr said: I haven't really committed to the label just yet, but I agree with not giving romantic partners automatic priority over others. I definitely agree with the "relationship anarchy" core of only holding members of a relationship accountable to the rules established by members previously, but I don't know if I want to use it as a label. And yes! Like I said, I think it would be really nice to have someone who is as "important" to you as the other partner in a "traditional" relationship, but platonically? Does this exist, and does it work? Do other people want this, and just this? Link to post Share on other sites
Arctangent Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 13 hours ago, Chorvus said: Like I said, I think it would be really nice to have someone who is as "important" to you as the other partner in a "traditional" relationship, but platonically? Does this exist, and does it work? Do other people want this, and just this? It sounds like you're talking about what's often called a queerplatonic partnership (QPP). It's basically a deep non-romantic relationship - it's hard to say much more than that since the nature of QPPs can vary quite a bit depending on the people involved. If that's what you mean, though, they do exist and there are people who want them! Some aromantic folks consider QPP to be their ideal relationship. I mostly mentioned RA because a lot of discussion about RA specifically addresses the kind of issues you mentioned (like the problem with saying "just friends"). I thought you might find that interesting even if you don't wish to ID as RA yourself. But it's okay if it's not your thing. Link to post Share on other sites
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