Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote That is absolutely a myth. References, please, beyond 'a doctor'. My 1pc comes from the 1pc of the population is asexual survey, which is generally accepted on AVEN and more widely as being the least worst guess at the moment. For sexuals, sex is a big deal. Obviously exact attitudes vary, but by definition, they want to have sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: References, please, beyond 'a doctor'. My 1pc comes from the 1pc of the population is asexual survey, which is generally accepted on AVEN and more widely as being the least worst guess at the moment. For sexuals, sex is a big deal. Obviously exact attitudes vary, but by definition, they want to have sex. .Men have the problem as much as women. Do your homework, Telecaster. If you are ONLY talking about sexuals. I would say it's more like 100 percent of the time sex is important, not 99 percent. http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/loss-of-libido-in-men Losing interest in sex may not be as common an occurrence for men as it is for women: It affects about 15% to 16% of men, and at least double that many women. "But when men lose interest in sex it scares them more than women -- their masculinity is so linked to their sexuality that it is very threatening," says Esther Perel, a couples therapist in New York city and author of Mating in Captivity Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said: Generally, your friends are loyal to you and your partner's friends are loyal to your partner. If one of my friends is in a relationship that I feel is very bad for them, I may well urge them to leave their partner. If the relationship seems to be abusive, or if my friend is constantly crying or depressed because of the relationship, I place my friend's wellbeing above their relationship. If the relationship is very one-sided, and I think my friend is being taken advantage of, I may well speak up. Exactly - and if my friend's misery seems related to their partner being unreasonable, I would absolutely criticise the partner. I'd expect my friends to do the same if the positions were reversed. Outsiders can often see a relationship more clearly than those inside them, and I value my friends' judgement. If the relationship later broke up and a friend said 'yeah I could see she was being completely unreasonable' but hadn't said anything at the time, I'd be pissed off with that friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: Presumably David Jay has talked about this with his partner, and his partner's okay with it. The point is that the OP's partner isn't okay with it, and that should be respected. I doubt it ever became a discussion with David Jay. "Oh hey, I want to be with you, but go shove yourself back into hiding and stop having that website, doing LGBT parades and TV interviews about asexuality" is not something I see him seeing as good partner potential. I could be wrong, I don't know him personally, but I'd be pretty certain that would be a put off. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: If the relationship later broke up and a friend said 'yeah I could see she was being completely unreasonable' but hadn't said anything at the time, I'd be pissed off with that friend. That's what counselors are for, Telecaster. Later, if you break up, the friend may offer supportive agreement for your choice. But to tell you want to do is not right because your friend is ONLY getting one side of the story. Personally, a good friend would tell you to talk to counselor both you and your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Tracy1 said: .Men have the problem as much as women. Do your homework, Telecaster http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/loss-of-libido-in-men Losing interest in sex may not be as common an occurrence for men as it is for women: It affects about 15% to 16% of men, and at least double that many women. "But when men lose interest in sex it scares them more than women -- their masculinity is so linked to their sexuality that it is very threatening," says Esther Perel, a couples therapist in New York city and author of Mating in Captivity I made no reference to gender, so I don't see why you bring that up. Esther Perel's work is about temporary loss of interest, not asexuality. I know it well, thanks. She makes a living out of people to whom sex does matter, and not having an interest at that point is distressing. So by definition, it's important to them. But, okay, for the sake of not getting diverted, let's average out the male and female figures to about 23% of people losing interest in sex at some point in their lives. That's still 75% of people to whom it is important. Can we move on from this cul de sac, please? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Owly McOwlFace said: I doubt it ever became a discussion with David Jay. "Oh hey, I want to be with you, but go shove yourself back into hiding and stop having that website, doing LGBT parades and TV interviews about asexuality" is not something I see him seeing as good partner potential. I could be wrong, I don't know him personally, but I'd be pretty certain that would be a put off. You're assuming they got together after he came out, so clearly the partner implicitly thought it was okay. Different situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: I made no reference to gender, so I don't see why you bring that up. Esther Perel's work is about temporary loss of interest, not asexuality. I know it well, thanks. She makes a living out of people to whom sex does matter, and not having an interest at that point is distressing. So by definition, it's important to them. But, okay, for the sake of not getting diverted, let's average out the male and female figures to about 23% of people losing interest in sex at some point in their lives. That's still 75% of people to whom it is important. Can we move on from this cul de sac, please? If you read the link you read that men are ashamed to admit they are asexual. So where is your proof that it is important to 99 percent. Unless you are talking ONLY about asexuals.....then, well yeah, of course it's important. Geesh. Gender has nothing to do with it. It's just that there are many men who have the problem too. They just don't talk about it like women do. The link is from Web Md. It only quotes esther perel briefly. Link to post Share on other sites
borkfork Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 23 minutes ago, Owly McOwlFace said: I do not discuss what I do with my current partner, it's private, because my partner wants it to remain so and I respect that (even though I would be totally open about every detail, normally). But, I am not about to hide my feelings from my friends cause someone else wants me to. It's not my partner's decision and trying to make it their decision I would consider controlling. I agree to be with them, I don't agree to hide who I am for them. If who I am embarrasses them that much that they feel I need to hide and lie about it then why on earth are they with me to begin with? It just shows they aren't actually OK with who I am. And I would not want to be with anyone who thinks part of me is so terrible that they want me to lie/hide it cause it would make them look bad to love me if the world knew. This has been my experience as well. People can make all the assumptions they want, but what goes on between my partner and I is between us. I'm a very private person in real life. I'm not going to avoid talking about my asexuality if it comes up and I'm comfortable discussing it with that person, and he knows that because he's already seen it. That's quite different from talking about what we actually do. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tracy1 said: That's what counselors are for, Telecaster. Later, if you break up, the friend may offer supportive agreement for your choice. But to tell you want to do is not right because your friend is ONLY getting one side of the story. Personally, a good friend would tell you to talk to counselor both you and your wife. Friends will know the partner directly. Counsellors won't. And counsellors get even less of the story than friends because of that. I'm genuinely shocked here. You've never come across a situation where a friend might say, for example 'don't you think s/he's being unreasonable?', or 'from where I'm standing, her behaviour is making you miserable'? out of care for the friend in the relationship? Or - if you were in an abusive or codependent relationship, and you hadn't figured it out but a friend had (because that's, again, frequently what happens), and your friend didn't say anything, you'd think they were being a good friend? Link to post Share on other sites
nanogretchen4 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Last I heard, David Jay was in a relationship with another asexual. That is very different from coming out while in a longterm heterosexual relationship, cutting off sex, disrespecting his partner's requests for privacy, and then expecting that the relationship is going to last. Being a very out activist and dating within the same orientation are two great tastes that taste great together. Being in a relationship with an incompatible partner and keeping it on the down low is a somewhat less awesome lifestyle in my opinion, but those two things also go together. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Telecaster68 said: You're assuming they got together after he came out, so clearly the partner implicitly thought it was okay. Different situation. Not assuming, I know he got together with his partner after he came out. But, not really different situation. Freedom to be yourself while in a relationship doesn't only come if you happen to know everything about yourself when you get with your partner (no one ever does, you constantly learn new things about yourself throughout life). You still should have freedom to be yourself and not controlled, no matter what you discover about yourself during a relationship. If that's a deal breaker to them, oh well. But, it's still not their right to control what you share about yourself. What tattoos you get. What body piercings you get. Or anything else you might want to do that is about you and not them. I wouldn't discuss anything my partner likes, since they want to keep that private, but I'm totally going to discuss what I like / am willing to do / not willing to do. If that means people we both know assume we do whatever, that's their problem. All they'll get from me if they ask if we do is "That's private between us, I don't mind you knowing, but I don't know if (mypartner) is comfortable sharing that information, you'd have to ask them". Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote So where is your proof that it is important to 99 percent. Unless you are talking ONLY about asexuals.....then, well yeah, of course it's important. Geesh. Yes, I was, as I just explained, and that's why I said it was important, and you agree with me. I'm slightly baffled what the point of bringing it up in the first place was. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Telecaster68 said: Friends will know the partner directly. Counsellors won't. And counsellors get even less of the story than friends because of that. I'm genuinely shocked here. You've never come across a situation where a friend might say, for example 'don't you think s/he's being unreasonable?', or 'from where I'm standing, her behaviour is making you miserable'? out of care for the friend in the relationship? Or - if you were in an abusive or codependent relationship, and you hadn't figured it out but a friend had (because that's, again, frequently what happens), and your friend didn't say anything, you'd think they were being a good friend? A good counselor will insist on meeting and talking to you both before offering counsel. Not wanting sex is not physical abuse. Of course, if your friend has a black eye. That's a crime. Call the police. But, no, your friend does not know your wife, if it is YOUR friend. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote it's still not their right to control what you share about yourself. But it's okay for you to control what you share about them? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Tracy1 said: A good counselor will insist on meeting and talking to you both before offering counsel. Not wanting sex is not physical abuse. Of course, if your friend has a black eye. That's a crime. Call the police. But, no, your friend does not know your wife, if it is YOUR friend. Apologies. I forgot you don't do analogies. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: Yes, I was, as I just explained, and that's why I said it was impodnt, and you agree with me. I'm slightly baffled what the point of bringing it up in the first place was. It was clear at first. Thank you for the clarification. BTW: You are easily baffle. Life is really not that baffling. It's simply cut and dried. BTW: I like squirrels. I raised one I found fallen from a tree. I had to give it to a wildlife center because it became very wild. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: Apologies. I forgot you don't do analogies. No need for apologies. You can act as squirrely as you wish. I don't care. Communication is key. Do you communicate with your wife or talk to your friend? Your analogy was weak as far as analogies go. It was not a very concrete. Communication is a difficult skill. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 So here's the flipside of that scenario: Nearly all my friends - certainly the close ones - know my wife well, and see her often. By the 'it's only your business' logic, it's fine for me to go into a general announcement that we no longer have sex, and explain why - her choice - which will inevitably either get into details about her, or leave people who know us both to make their own, inevitably wrong, assumptions about what's going on? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote Life is really not that baffling. It's simply cut and dried. It really isn't simply cut and dried. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: But it's okay for you to control what you share about them? Really, what are you sharing about them by stating your own feelings on something? Are you saying "Yeah we totally don't do sex"? No. Saying "I'm asexual" doesn't mean not having sex. It doesn't mean having sex. Either one can happen. People being ignorant and making ignorant assumptions based on something about me would not be me saying anything about my partner. If I say "I like being tied up, it can be fun" and someone assumes I do that with my partner, that's them making silly assumptions. That's not me talking about my sex life with my partner. And if I was restricted to never even talking about what I feel / like / want / have done because they wanted me to avoid every bit of info that might lead to someone making an ignorant assumption about what they like, they could go away and leave me alone. Just now, Telecaster68 said: So here's the flipside of that scenario: Nearly all my friends - certainly the close ones - know my wife well, and see her often. By the 'it's only your business' logic, it's fine for me to go into a general announcement that we no longer have sex, and explain why - her choice - which will inevitably either get into details about her, or leave people who know us both to make their own, inevitably wrong, assumptions about what's going on? That's not the flip side. That's talking about something the two of you do. If you said "I am sexually frustrated" to your friends and if they asked for details and you said "That's private", that would be you talking about your feelings... not you talking about activities you two do together. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: So here's the flipside of that scenario: Nearly all my friends - certainly the close ones - know my wife well, and see her often. By the 'it's only your business' logic, it's fine for me to go into a general announcement that we no longer have sex, and explain why - her choice - which will inevitably either get into details about her, or leave people who know us both to make their own, inevitably wrong, assumptions about what's going on? Perhaps, they do know your wife better than even you do. It's possible. That still does not change the fact that you would be better served by communicating directly with your wife, perhaps facilitated by a counselor, instead of your friends. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: It really isn't simply cut and dried. Oh but it is, Telecaster. Your wife does not like sex. You do. Not very complicated. You are the only one that can solve your own problem. Talking to your friends will not solve anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote what are you sharing about them by stating your own feelings on something? Are you saying "Yeah we totally don't do sex"? No. Saying "I'm asexual" doesn't mean not having sex. It doesn't mean having sex. Either one can happen. People being ignorant and making ignorant assumptions based on something about me would not be me saying anything about my partner. People making ignorant assumptions about someone you love because of something you've said is exactly the reason you need their agreement before you say anything. Quote That's talking about something the two of you do And so is saying you're asexual. Quote If you said "I am sexually frustrated" to your friends and if they asked for details and you said "That's private", that would be you talking about your feelings... not you talking about activities you two do together. Oh come on. You surely don't think that anyone will hear you say that and not consider your partner's role in your sexual frustration? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tracy1 said: Oh but it is, Telecaster. Your wife does not like sex. You do. Not very complicated. You are the only one that can solve your own problem. Talking to your friends will not solve anything. We're not talking about me. Well, I wasn't till I stupidly used the first person instead of the third in that example. How about: Nearly all Geoff's friends - certainly the close ones - know his wife well, and see her often. By the 'it's only your business' logic, it's fine for Geoff to go into a general announcement that he no longer has sex, and explain why - his wife's choice - which will inevitably either get into details about her, or leave people who know them both to make their own, inevitably wrong, assumptions about what's going on. I have no interest in making this about me, even though apparently my relationship fascinates you. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said: People making ignorant assumptions about someone you love because of something you've said is exactly the reason you need their agreement before you say anything. And so is saying you're asexual. Oh come on. You surely don't think that anyone will hear you say that and not consider your partner's role in your sexual frustration? Why would someone assume you are frustrated sexually unless you reveal that information. Not all people married to asexuals are frustrated. Some are just relieved. You are obviously frustrated. I feel bad for you about that. But I still can not advise you on what to do about it. That is up to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: We're not talking about me. Well, I wasn't till I stupidly used the first person instead of the third in that example. How about: Nearly all Geoff's friends - certainly the close ones - know his wife well, and see her often. By the 'it's only your business' logic, it's fine for Geoff to go into a general announcement that he no longer has sex, and explain why - his wife's choice - which will inevitably either get into details about her, or leave people who know them both to make their own, inevitably wrong, assumptions about what's going on. I have no interest in making this about me, even though apparently my relationship fascinates you. Oh....I though you said you were making an analogy. You do fascinate me. If you do not want people to make observations about your life, then why do you expose your personal details? Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Quote That still does not change the fact that you would be better served by communicating directly with your wife, perhaps facilitated by a counselor, instead of your friends. Let's assume that 'Geoff', see previous post, is talking to his wife and counsellor about it as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Tracy1 said: Oh....I though you said you were making an analogy. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were flirting. Link to post Share on other sites
Private Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said: Let's assume that 'Geoff', see previous post, is talking to his wife and counsellor about it as well. Well, the counselor is a good start and a better bet than a friend for real valuable advice. Link to post Share on other sites
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