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Maybe sex is just too... aggressive?


sindi

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I've been toying around with the idea, that what if I could enjoy some form of sex after all. But everything I know about sex seems kind of way too aggressive, or too "invasive" at the very least! It's all so unhindered and "nasty"* and so forth...

The only thing I can think of, that is not instantly unappealing, is very tender, downright subtle touching leading to arousal ('cause without arousal, it would have 0% to do with sex). Not sure if I would enjoy that in real life, but the real question is... would that even count as sex at all? And would it only cause frustration to a (more?) sexual person? Is sex only sex if it leads to orgasm (or a vigorous attempt at reaching one), and could orgasm possibly be achieved via subtler means? 

Sorry if this is disturbing to some, but it is the sex discussion category... and I'm just curious about your thoughts on the nature of sex etc.

 

*I'm not trying to say, that it's gross (altho to me personally, it is a bit), but that a certain "nastiness"/"dirtiness" is apparently a positive thing to many???

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Telecaster68

It mostly starts off gentle and subtle, but then as arousal builds, most people actually want and need it more vigorously, just on a physiological level, mostly. Friction needs to build up. And also, emotionally, there's this feeling of needing more, more, more (IE harder, faster, deeper) of the other person.

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nanogretchen4

That seems to apply mostly to penetrative sex. I can relate to the faster, harder, deeper thing emotionally, but I don't orgasm that way. In terms of direct clitoral stimulation I don't want any actual friction because that is painful, and I need the stimulation to remain consistent. I don't actually want my partner to try to get creative in that area. 

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Telecaster68

For men, the faster/harder thing is definitely the case even with handjobs and oral, and while not as extreme, I know from experience a lot of women like an increase in pressure/speed  on their clit or g spot too. Not going to go into too much detail though...

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30 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

It mostly starts off gentle and subtle, but then as arousal builds, most people actually want and need it more vigorously, just on a physiological level, mostly. Friction needs to build up. And also, emotionally, there's this feeling of needing more, more, more (IE harder, faster, deeper) of the other person.

Hmm, a bit disheartening, that it might start out as something that I could see myself liking, but would end with us having to call it off because it would get way too frustrating for my imagined partner. And the knowledge, that they'll end up feeling unsatisfied and disappointed, would most probably ruin the whole thing for me to. (Of course I would be clear from the start, how far I'm willing to go, but even if my partner agreed to that, they would probably feel a disappointment in their body at least)

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12 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

That seems to apply mostly to penetrative sex. I can relate to the faster, harder, deeper thing emotionally, but I don't orgasm that way. In terms of direct clitoral stimulation I don't want any actual friction because that is painful, and I need the stimulation to remain consistent. I don't actually want my partner to try to get creative in that area. 

Was I maybe right in my preconception, that the subtler way might work better with two females? I mean, penis in vagina sex is already invasive in itself, and I also can't see how it would work "more subtly"  - would it be in slow motion, or what? :D Well, of course I know that there are other types of sex even for males and females :redface:

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1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Or, you might get into it...

I guess you never know for 100% sure, but if the thought doesn't appeal to me at all to begin with, I think the chances are high that it would end with us both feeling bad.

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Telecaster68

I have no idea about how it could work between two women, not being one, and never having had a threesome, but I can imagine it might be like that.

 

By subtler, I mean more sensual, teasing, slower, switching between who's touching what... then as it builds up it becomes more rhythmic and regular and, um, pounding.

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Telecaster68
Just now, sindi said:

I guess you never know for 100% sure, but if the thought doesn't appeal to me at all to begin with, I think the chances are high that it would end with us both feeling bad.

Not to do the 'you might like it if you tried it thing', but a good lover tends to focus on what works for their partner, and with a bit of patience and openness, might discover some things you really didn't expect you would like. It happens between sexuals, a lot.

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10 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

then as it builds up it becomes more rhythmic and regular and, um, pounding.

And that's where my main problem lies, on a mental level at least :D On a real life level, maybe the problem would come up way earlier, or maybe (I'm doubtful, but don't want to set things in stone) never... but I guess being effortlessly virgin at 30 years old doesn't speak well of my abilities to find a sexual side in me.

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Telecaster68

It depends on what you and a putative lover found what would work for you. It doesn't have to end that way...

 

He could pull out and you could finish him by hand, for instance. A lot of the 'pounding' thing for me, is that both partners may well climax together, which can be amazing, but it's not a given at all.

 

There's also the thing about closeness - most sexuals find that one being inside the other can be emotionally intimate, but if one of them finds it intrusive then the other's probably not going to be so keen either, so the handjob ending might be better anyway.

 

It's all complicated, subjective, and varies from couple to couple and coupling to coupling.

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I don't know... For some reason I apparently try to find some hidden sexual side of me (thirties crisis?), but when discussing details, like stimulation right to the clitoris, let alone a penis in a vagina, the whole thing is starting to sound less and less appealing :D

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Autumn Season

I can relate to many things you wrote, @sindi. The sensual, slow part of sex/ foreplay seems nice, but then the aggressive part comes sooner or later and I'd just rather not. It's like forcing a laughter: While laughing in itself is a positive thing, I just cannot make myself want to laugh and it feels, well, forced. While the other will be upset I am not having a great time and laugh... @Telecaster68 said that as arousal builds, one automatically wants to go harder. In my case, since I have (practically) no libido, this would explain why I do not like the aggressive side of sex. (I do not find it disgusting, scary, nothing negative like that. In theory I would like to explore a lover's sexual side and to express my love in this way. But I do not experience this kind of passion.) I am wondering whether asexuals who do have a libido also find sex too aggressive.

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Telecaster68

Libido is different to arousal though autumn... I'm talking about getting lost in the moment, in the emotional closeness with your lover, in the physical sensations and the hunger for more and the drive towards climaxing. Libido is just wanting to start the whole process in the first place. 

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Autumn Season
Quote

Libido is different to arousal though

@Telecaster68: You're right, I sometimes forget. I experience neither.

 

Edit: Thinking over my question again:

Quote

I am wondering whether asexuals who do have a libido also find sex too aggressive.

So... Theoretically only those who do not feel arousal would think the same way?

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I have a libido, but I guess it's pretty low, and I doubt that I've ever had a real orgasm. Even with masturbation I don't like to "go hard" - the arousal just fades at some point. I have tried to take it up a notch, but that usually just leads to the arousal ending abruptly, which doesn't feel nice at all. I actually enjoy the earliest stages of arousal, when I don't even feel like touching myself yet, the most!

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"Was I maybe right in my preconception, that the subtler way might work better with two females? I mean, penis in vagina sex is already invasive in itself, and I also can't see how it would work "more subtly"  - would it be in slow motion, or what?"

 

(I can't use the quote function because I'm on my phone <_<)

 

Anyway... I've wondered if I would enjoy sex if I was a lesbian. I think that one of the reasons why I used to consider myself ace was that I dislike the idea of having sex with a guy (in my imagination, not so much, but in reality it's a different issue). It seems a bit aggressive, detached and not very emotional. I think that as soon as the aggressive/too "dick-oriented" part of sex begins, I'd probably look at the guy with a "geez, you are *really* excited about this, aren't you, honey?" face. :lol: I don't think I can be *that* passionate about sex. 

 

If I was into women, though, I think I would probably be in a relationship and have a sex life. I just can't relate to the way men experience sexuality (in general; there are other aspects of it that I'm not excited about), and it kind of makes me feel a bit emotionally distant from them. That, along with all the bad experiences I've had with heterosexual men, makes me avoid any kind of relationship (that's not platonic) with guys, even though I probably desire it and I'm curious to see if sex can be loving and pleasant as it seems (in my imagination).

 

PS.: Sorry if my post is not very useful. I can't answer any of your questions since I have no experience with sex, but I was able to relate to most things you said. I find this topic quite interesting, and I'm glad that you brought it up. :) 

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10 hours ago, Visenya said:

 

PS.: Sorry if my post is not very useful. I can't answer any of your questions since I have no experience with sex, but I was able to relate to most things you said. I find this topic quite interesting, and I'm glad that you brought it up. :) 

Oh, it's perfectly useful :D I only really wanted to hear people's thoughts, whether they have experience or not. And I relate to your post more or less - I like both genders in a way, and have sometimes wondered, if I'm really just a repressed lesbian or something. 'Cause honestly, sex with a male just seems that much more unappealing.

But I'm still closeted even about my homoromantic tendencies to my family :/ It's complicated (I already wrote a passage about the details why, but then realized, that it's irrelevant and a bit too personal).

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10 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Libido is different to arousal though autumn... I'm talking about getting lost in the moment, in the emotional closeness with your lover, in the physical sensations and the hunger for more and the drive towards climaxing. 

Boy, I am getting more asexual by the minute.  That almost made me sick.  

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18 minutes ago, Sally said:

Boy, I am getting more asexual by the minute.  That almost made me sick.  

Maybe you shouldn't venture into the sex discussion area, if even undetailed sex talk like that makes you disgusted :P

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5 minutes ago, sindi said:

Maybe you shouldn't venture into the sex discussion area, if even undetailed sex talk like that makes you disgusted :P

It didn't used to bother me.  You're right; I should stay away from what I know is going to be a sexual talking about sex.  (I can deal with asexuals talking about sex.)

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, Sally said:

Boy, I am getting more asexual by the minute.  That almost made me sick.  

And that was me being careful... 

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calamityandlove

I wouldn't say aggression has a correlation. If I do say so myself, I am not exactly of a passive temperament. Not in the slightest actually. In fact, that word may as well be the coherent opposite of me. Well, it depends on the individual, but personally?, it has nothing to do with my asexuality. 

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Sex doesn't ever have to be rough or aggressive unless you're with a partner who specifically wants that. There are many people who just want you to enjoy the sexual encounter with them as much as they do, and if that means giving each other gentle oral sex to achieve orgasm if that's all you can enjoy, or finding ways to orgasm and experience pleasure  that don't involve penetration if either partner is uncomfortable with that then they'd rather that than do something you don't want and can't enjoy. I've seen a lot of sexual people say the orgasm itself often isn't even as important as the intimate and sensual pleasure of a sexual encounter, though obviously orgasm creates a lot of nice hormones so I personally feel it's important in a sexual encounter if I'm going to go to the effort of having sex haha, that's just my opinion though. Sex can be a gentle, sensual, intimate experience between two people who care about each other. It doesn't *have* to be rough and invasive unless, like I said, one partner does specifically need that to get off. You won't be sexually matched with someone like that if you can't enjoy that, but there are plenty of others you may be able to enjoy gentle sexual activity with if you communicate well with them and explain what you want and desire etc, and they respect your needs. I also didn't see If you said you meant sex only with a man, or lesbian sex as well. I've had sex with women and it's so much more gentle and soft than a lot of my experiences with men (though my male partner I'm with now would only ever do it in the way I desire it, whether gentle or hard or whatever).. but yeah I've found women to be extremely tender and sensual during sex, and their faces and mouths are a lot softer generally and they're much gentler during any form of oral or clitoral stimulation unless you specifically ask otherwise. They also seem to enjoy taking lot longer with foreplay etc than many men do (though some men will of course give you foreplay for as long as you need it!) So yeah, sex doesn't always have to be rough or invasive or aggressive. Just depends on the people involved and how well they communicate :)

 

(I don't enjoy penetrative vaginal sex or receiving oral myself and my partner is totally fine with that and just wants me to experience whatever it is that I might enjoy during a sexual encounter.. so again, just depends on the people involved!)

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Telecaster68

Pan

 

My understanding of 'rough' in this context wasn't the 'shove me up against the wall and force my legs apart' (consensually, obvs) rough more that things get a bit more vigorous as arousal builds. Also that the OP found anything going inside invasive in principle, regardless of vigour. 

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23 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

And that was me being careful... 

I know.  Yeesh.  

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nanogretchen4

If someone asks a question about the mechanics of sex, it's hard to give a useful answer without mentioning anatomy and so forth. Maybe the thread should be moved into the Sex Talk.

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Telecaster68

Well it's nearly there. And I doubt Sally's seriously traumatised...

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