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Woman wants marriage annulled because her husband is asexual


Ettina

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Telecaster68
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You cans snuggle, you can hold hands, you can boost their ego, you can do all manner of kind things.  I did all those things for my husband.  Sex need not be associated with a loving intimate relationship.

For most sexuals, snuggling, holding hands, ego boosting, and 'all manner of other things' just don't replace the sex. Sex absolutely does need to be part of a loving intimate relationship, along with the things you mention, trust, shared outlook on life, etc.

 

Sex can can exist outside of a monogamous relationship, but for most people it's also a necessary part of a monogamous relationship. Logically, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

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2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

For most sexuals, snuggling, holding hands, ego boosting, and 'all manner of other things' just don't replace the sex. Sex absolutely does need to be part of a loving intimate relationship, along with the things you mention, trust, shared outlook on life, etc.

 

Sex can can exist outside of a monogamous relationship, but for most people it's also a necessary part of a monogamous relationship. Logically, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Really, sex absolutely does need to be part of a loving intimate relationship?

 

So what happens telecaster if you get ED or a paralyzed form the waist down.  Does your wife get to tell you you don't love her because you can not have sex with her?  Would you be okay with that?  Would you consider that real love?

 

Having sex with someone is not always an intimate loving act. 

 

For a lot of people the ability to have sex fades, due to hormones or health issues, but love, trust, shared outlook on life can last forever.

 

Sex is just a biological urge for a physical release.  I have brothers and when they were young, they very often had sex with women they could not and did not love.  It was just sex.

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Telecaster68
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So what happens telecaster if you get ED or a paralyzed form the waist down.  Does your wife get to tell you you don't love her because you can not have sex with her? 

I can still have sex with her. There are sexual activities that bring about that same level of closeness that don't involve penetration. The point is the desire for sexual activity, and the damage is done when one partner blanket dismisses something that affects their partner deeply, purely because they don't feel it. That's a complete lack of empathy, and that's where the intimacy dies.

 

If there was a level of disability that completely prevented anything physical - which would basically have to be total paralysis - then, yes, I'd expect the levels of emotional involvement to decrease markedly, but not necessarily love. It would be very, very hard in all sorts of ways on the able bodied partner, as along with sex, their shared life would inevitably more or less disappear. This is well recognised in the medical and care community.

 

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Having sex with someone is not always an intimate loving act. 

No, but it often is.

 

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Sex is just a biological urge for a physical release. 

It may be for you, but you're not everybody. Or even most people.

 

For most people, that release also includes hormones in the brain (oxytocin, specifically) that are recognised to trigger feelings of bonding and pleasure. It's not just a physical release.

 

You feel how you feel, and that's fine. Don't insist that everyone else is lying or acting in bad faith because they don't feel the same as you.

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8 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I can still have sex with her. There are sexual activities that bring about that same level of closeness that don't involve penetration. The point is the desire for sexual activity, and the damage is done when one partner blanket dismisses something that affects their partner deeply, purely because they don't feel it. That's a complete lack of empathy, and that's where the intimacy dies.

 

If there was a level of disability that completely prevented anything physical - which would basically have to be total paralysis - then, yes, I'd expect the levels of emotional involvement to decrease markedly, but not necessarily love. It would be very, very hard in all sorts of ways on the able bodied partner, as along with sex, their shared life would inevitably more or less disappear. This is well recognised in the medical and care community.

 

No, but it often is.

 

It may be for you, but you're not everybody. Or even most people.

 

For most people, that release also includes hormones in the brain (oxytocin, specifically) that are recognised to trigger feelings of bonding and pleasure. It's not just a physical release.

 

You feel how you feel, and that's fine. Don't insist that everyone else is lying or acting in bad faith because they don't feel the same as you.

Telecaster:

 

Do you really believe that ALL WOMEN or even most would be okay without penetration?  My acquaintance whose husband has ED, does not agree. She feels penetration along with foreplay is the most appealing sexually.  She likes foreplay, but without penetration, to her, and to many other women I have talked to, the sexual act is not as satisfying.

 

Still, I am glad to see that we agree that there is always more than one way to achieve something.  For example, as I said, love and intimacy can be achieved with cuddling and trust and shared outlook on life.

 

As for oxytocin, you do relalize that simply cuddling stimulates the release of oxytocin.   Oxytocin is what stimulates a mother to bond with her child.  She need not have sex with tht child to bond. She simply needs to cuddle it.

 

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Telecaster said to Tracy 1: You feel how you feel, and that's fine. Don't insist that everyone else is lying or acting in bad faith because they don't feel the same as you.

Wow, telecaster, that is a major projection of your own feelings.  When did I say anything that is included in your quote? 

 

I am glad you like sex. More power to you.  I am not really here to defend my lack of interest in sex, I thought this forum was to enable asexuals to find people to relate to. That is why I am here.  You appear to be here to argue with asexuals. 

 

I am simply relating my own experience. 

 

The fact is my husband cheated because I no longer had interest in sex and now after I divorce him for cheating, he wants to get back together because he says he now realizes love is about more than sex is simply my experience.  It may not be everyone's experience. 

 

Oh, and note that my exh-husban said this after he learned his affair partner was cheating on him with four other men because he could not get it up more than once in a session.  I find that rather ironic and somewhat amusing. Don't you?

 

In any event, It appears to me, that you are the one who is assuming that anyone is acting in bad faith.  I am simply presenting the facts of two situations in real life that I personally experienced. As well as sharing thoughts from my many women friends.  

 

I truly do not think you are lying.  I would never tell someone else what they think.  Based on your posts, the only conclusion I can draw is that you really like sex and would be annoyed at your wife if she lost interest.   That's the only conclusion that is obvious.  What your really think in your head is beyond me.  I am not a psychic.

 

I am just curious, what if your wife's loss of interest was due to an illness, would you be angry then, or empathetic because she was ill.  Some doctors say that hormonal depletion is a health issue.  Alas, hormonal supplementation can cause cancer. 

 

Also, what if your wife, like my friend, found sex without penetration to be very UNsatisfying?  How would you feel about that?

 

Would you be okay, if she then took a lover who could penetrate her during sex because you could not? 

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This is a very intersting issue. As to whether or not an annullment can take place, it would depend on the jurisdiction but in summary there are some reasons that could lead to it:

  • Being underage at the time of marriage
  • Being invalid due to an unauthorized official performing the marriage
  • Being coerced into marriage, whether by arrangement or based upon false pretenses
  • Being unconsenting by either party, or forcably via fraud
  • Being previously married without divorce or annulment at the time of remarriage
  • Being incapable of connsumating the marriage, and being unable despite attempts being made (most common for religious reasons)
  • Being a transmitter or transmittee of a sexually transmitted disease that is incurable (depending on jurisdiction)

While I read this, I understand the woman's frustration and being married for 14 years and wanting annulment is valid, it's going to be tough to prove given the amount of time of the marriage. The woman also admits that she suspected or knew that her husband was asexual prior to marriage, indicating that she knew what she was getting into. Furthermore, the marriage was consummated albeit a bit delayed. 

 

While from the Christian perspective does seem to allow for the annulment, the legal obligations don't necessarily hold true as they are two different interpretations. This woman just seems to want to get an annulment becuase it would allow her to remarry, but interestingly she doesn't seem Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christian, so I don't see why it might be a problem given that as far as I know most Protestant demoniations allow for remarriage. 

 

Regardless of how poorly she communicates herself, it would be an interesting maritial trial to listen to or read-up on. 

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I agree, Oskietjie:

 

I was raised catholic and I do not see that under the Catholic doctrines that I am aware of, that this woman would be granted a religious or legal annullment, for all the reasons you cited.

 

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Telecaster68
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Do you really believe that ALL WOMEN or even most would be okay without penetration?

According to you they would, as sex is a pointless activity.

 

But assuming you're referring to the 'ill' point - no, most women would prefer penetration at least some of the time, I'm sure. But they'd understand if their husband was physically unable to do that; what they'd find intolerable would be him refusing to do anything sexual at all with them, even though he could.

 

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Still, I am glad to see that we agree that there is always more than one way to achieve something.  For example, as I said, love and intimacy can be achieved with cuddling and trust and shared outlook on life.

You're misrepresenting what I said, as you well know.

 

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As for oxytocin, you do relalize that simply cuddling stimulates the release of oxytocin.   Oxytocin is what stimulates a mother to bond with her child.  She need not have sex with tht child to bond. She simply needs to cuddle it.

But sex releases more. It's a flood, for most people.

 

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that is a major projection of your own feelings.  When did I say anything that is included in your quote? 

Your statements are all blanket claims, with no qualifications. You clearly think your feelings apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

 

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I am not really here to defend my lack of interest in sex

Well stop doing it then.

 

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what if your wife's loss of interest was due to an illness, would you be angry then, or empathetic because she was ill. 

Her loss of interest is due to an illness (and menopause, and a basic disconnection between sex and emotion on her part) and I am empathetic and completely supportive. She would tell you this if she was a poster on here. I'm also frustrated and disconnected from her, and stressed to the point of having counselling because of physical symptoms and suicidal ideation. These things aren't exclusive.
 

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Some doctors say that hormonal depletion is a health issue.  Alas, hormonal supplementation can cause cancer. 


 

She's chosen to go on HRT because of non-sexual issues, and if you dig into the actual research, the cancer link is far weaker than the scare stories would indicate.
 

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Also, what if your wife, like my friend, found sex without penetration to be very UNsatisfying?  How would you feel about that?


 

She feels all sex is unsatisfying, and her inability to get any pleasure from sex is at least as frustrating and disconnecting for me as the lack for me. If she wanted nonPIV sex, I'd be far happier than I am now, because it be a form of being desired. If she wanted to have nonPIV sex purely for my benefit, out of empathy and love, I'd be far happier.
 

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Would you be okay, if she then took a lover who could penetrate her during sex because you could not? 


 

If I was completely unable to penetrate her and she absolutely needed that to not be miserable, I'd understand her need and not dismiss it as unimportant. I'm not sure whether we'd split up, or decide on an open marriage, or adopt a 'don't ask, don't tell' approach. I'm pretty sure, if I was at all able, I'd provide some form of sex out of love and pleasure in giving her pleasure even if it did nothing for me. Hopefully we would find a way to make that compromise work, but I understand that's not the scenario you're proposing.

 

You seem fixated on PIV. For most sexuals, that's simply not the whole story in my experience. They'd like it ideally, generally (though not always), but the important thing is sharing the combination of physical and emotional intimacy that comes through sex. If it's simply not physically possible to have PIV, that emotional element and many of the physical ones too, can be achieved in other sexual ways.

 

 

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@oskietje I believe I read her inquiring about a catholic annulment after civil divorce and some reverend (apparently in charge or at least very familiar with the ruling scheme) nodded it through?

I'd guess there isn't much to expect from the Catholic side. All they are dealing with is the religious overhead; the rest is done by civil courts & administration. To me it seems the woman is only going for a divorce over there. Basically the Reverend has 2 choices:

"No!" would piss the gal off and loose the church a happy follower with influence over 2 daughters.

"Fine by us" generates a happy customer + harmony with the civil realm around. Further on It also radiates the church's voice into every bedroom where it is quoted. In my humble, admittedly atheist, opinion: The by far smarter move for the church.

 

While a court would of course be reluctant to go for an annulment, the church has nothing else at hand. I further on assume they have zero interest to investigate the couple's dirty laundry since a civil court already declared the marriage fucked or abstained up beyond repair.

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nanogretchen4

It sounds to me like willful fraud was involved. I think it would be very wise to annul the marriage. Otherwise it would be allowing the husband to profit by sin and then keep his ill gotten gains while also being absolved. This would surely encourage others to commit the same sin. I mean, if someone confesses to a priest that they stole, I would expect their penance to include returning the stolen goods. Anyway, keeping people trapped forever in hopelessly incompatible marriages is a losing game. Most will get a civil divorce and then remarry outside the Church, quite likely switching denominations or ceasing to practice.

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26 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

According to you they would, as sex is a pointless activity.

 

But assuming you're referring to the 'ill' point - no, most women would prefer penetration at least some of the time, I'm sure. But they'd understand if their husband was physically unable to do that; what they'd find intolerable would be him refusing to do anything sexual at all with them, even though he could.

 

You're misrepresenting what I said, as you well know.

 

But sex releases more. It's a flood, for most people.

 

Your statements are all blanket claims, with no qualifications. You clearly think your feelings apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

 

Well stop doing it then.

 

Her loss of interest is due to an illness (and menopause, and a basic disconnection between sex and emotion on her part) and I am empathetic and completely supportive. She would tell you this if she was a poster on here. I'm also frustrated and disconnected from her, and stressed to the point of having counselling because of physical symptoms and suicidal ideation. These things aren't exclusive.
 

She's chosen to go on HRT because of non-sexual issues, and if you dig into the actual research, the cancer link is far weaker than the scare stories would indicate.
 

She feels all sex is unsatisfying, and her inability to get any pleasure from sex is at least as frustrating and disconnecting for me as the lack for me. If she wanted nonPIV sex, I'd be far happier than I am now, because it be a form of being desired. If she wanted to have nonPIV sex purely for my benefit, out of empathy and love, I'd be far happier.
 

If I was completely unable to penetrate her and she absolutely needed that to not be miserable, I'd understand her need and not dismiss it as unimportant. I'm not sure whether we'd split up, or decide on an open marriage, or adopt a 'don't ask, don't tell' approach. I'm pretty sure, if I was at all able, I'd provide some form of sex out of love and pleasure in giving her pleasure even if it did nothing for me. Hopefully we would find a way to make that compromise work, but I understand that's not the scenario you're proposing.

 

You seem fixated on PIV. For most sexuals, that's simply not the whole story in my experience. They'd like it ideally, generally (though not always), but the important thing is sharing the combination of physical and emotional intimacy that comes through sex. If it's simply not physically possible to have PIV, that emotional element and many of the physical ones too, can be achieved in other sexual ways.

 

 

Hi telecaster:

 

You again are projecting your own thoughts onto me.

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Telecaster said to Tracy 1

According to you they would, as sex is a pointless activity.

 

Telecaster:

 

I never claimed to speak for all women.  Only myself.   Have you actually read my postings?   You seem very angry about the fact that I do not like sex.  Why?  Is your wife like me?

 

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Telecaster said to Tracy: But assuming you're referring to the 'ill' point - no, most women would prefer penetration at least some of the time, I'm sure. But they'd understand if their husband was physically unable to do that; what they'd find intolerable would be him refusing to do anything sexual at all with them, even though he could.

Telecaster:

 

Thank you for making my point for me.  Yes.  In a loving relationship a person is understanding and empathetic about a lack of hormones or a physical illness.  That's what true love is. 

 

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Telecaster said to Tracy1: But sex releases more. It's a flood, for most people.

Telecaster:

 

I think most scientists would say that motherhood releases more oxytocin after giving birth.    Men produce far less oxytocin than do women after sex, please do your homework.

 

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Telecater said to Tracy1: Your statements are all blanket claims, with no qualifications. You clearly think your feelings apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

Really?   I thought I just answered that accusation.  Did you actually read my post or did you simply flash.

 

Look, I am sorry that your wife has lost interest in sex.  It is very common.   Sexless marriages are very common among people over 50.  Do your homework than get back to me.

 

Personally, if your wife is not interested in sex, I doubt that will change.

 

As for the link being weak to HRT and cancer.  I would say that is very controversial and gene related.   You yourself admit the link exists but is weak.

 

So, is sex more important to you than protecting your wife from cancer?  If so, do you think that is empathetic?

 

Lastly, I am not here to defend my lack of interest in sex.  But I will defend myself from an unprovoked attack by you.  If you do not like that, stop reading my posts.

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Telecaster68

I'll come back to you when you respond to the bits that don't reflect your assumptions about me. I've already covered your other questions. 

 

And my wife chose to go on HRT. Please don't imply I forced her to go on HRT to make her interested in sex,especially as I explicitly made clear that isn't what happened. 

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3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'll come back to you when you respond to the bits that don't reflect your assumptions about me. I've already covered your other questions. 

 

And my wife chose to go on HRT. Please don't imply I forced her to go on HRT to make her interested in sex,especially as I explicitly made clear that isn't what happened. 

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Telecaster said to Tracyw:

I'll come back to you when you respond to the bits that don't reflect your assumptions about me. I've already covered your other questions. 

 

Telecaster:

 

Only come back to me, if you want to discuss this issue in a factual manner.  If you are angry at your wife for some reason and you are transferring that anger to me, then do some soul searching before you comment next time.


 

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Telecaster said to Tracy1:

And my wife chose to go on HRT. Please don't imply I forced her to go on HRT to make her interested in sex,especially as I explicitly made clear that isn't what happened. 

 


 

Are you sure she did not do it to please you?

 

I personally had sex with my husband for years when I was absolutely not interested.  He never knew that, until recently.  So, are you sure your wife is not doing something to please you.

 

Also, whatever her reason for being on HRT, it is still a WEAK link to cancer in almost everyone.  Estrogen makes tissues and cells grow.  That's a fact. If you really love your wife, you might ask her to be cautious about using HRT, or at least go some genetic testing to see if she has a propensity to certain female cancer that grow faster when fueled by estrogen and progesterone.

 

If your wife does have a genetic predisposition to certain cancers, she should not be using HRT.  It's just a fact.

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Wow, what a hefty tone between Tracy and Telecaster! 

In all fairness, then many sexuals on aven are here, because we have somehow ended up with an asexual partner. We try to understand and grasp this group of people, which can be quite different than 99% of other people, regarding the importance of having good and loving mutual sex. (99% According to aven!)  we try to navigate and find solutions, a way to reach happiness. We try to say, what we feel, and believe me, if we said the same and asked  sexual forums for advice, then we would have divorced long ago. No sex is a typical sign of no love. No love equals not worth staying. ...but we want to understand and figth on.

I think Telecaster is describing very well, how the oxytosin can feel like a flood of good stuff.  if a birthgiving woman feels more, it only makes me happy for her experience and makes me want my experience more. 

We, the sexuals, get frustrated without the desire, as little as it may be, as a part of our relationship. If she has a headache, stomach cramps, feel stressed out, lupus-struck, lame in lower body... then we can point to that, and say 'Fuck it, what a shame!, We could have enjoyed some nice monogamistic, lovemaking if it wasnt for... ' but we would know, that the spark was still there, even though hidden under tons of good reasons. And under the rigth circumstances, we can ignite that spark and turn it back into a flame. There is no spark and there never was and there never will be. 

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While her understanding of asexuality is ignorant and the idea that it, or homosexuality, can be "treated" is even contrary to what her own religion teaches on homosexuality... She has a legitimate complaint.  When you enter a marriage, there's a certain expectation of sex... And if either party intends for sex to happen less often, or more often, it's something that should be discussed.

 

The fact is, he made excuses for his  desires and wasn't entirely honest with her.  Yes, her ultimatums were shitty... But he did shitty things, too.

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34 minutes ago, MrDane said:

Wow, what a hefty tone between Tracy and Telecaster! 

In all fairness, then many sexuals on aven are here, because we have somehow ended up with an asexual partner. We try to understand and grasp this group of people, which can be quite different than 99% of other people, regarding the importance of having good and loving mutual sex. (99% According to aven!)  we try to navigate and find solutions, a way to reach happiness. We try to say, what we feel, and believe me, if we said the same and asked  sexual forums for advice, then we would have divorced long ago. No sex is a typical sign of no love. No love equals not worth staying. ...but we want to understand and figth on.

I think Telecaster is describing very well, how the oxytosin can feel like a flood of good stuff.  if a birthgiving woman feels more, it only makes me happy for her experience and makes me want my experience more. 

We, the sexuals, get frustrated without the desire, as little as it may be, as a part of our relationship. If she has a headache, stomach cramps, feel stressed out, lupus-struck, lame in lower body... then we can point to that, and say 'Fuck it, what a shame!, We could have enjoyed some nice monogamistic, lovemaking if it wasnt for... ' but we would know, that the spark was still there, even though hidden under tons of good reasons. And under the rigth circumstances, we can ignite that spark and turn it back into a flame. There is no spark and there never was and there never will be. 

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Mr Dane said to Tracy1:

I think Telecaster is describing very well, how the oxytosin can feel like a flood of good stuff.  if a birthgiving woman feels more, it only makes me happy for her experience and makes me want my experience more. 

 

If you research oxytocin at scientific sites, you will see simply cuddling releases plenty of oxytocin.


 

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Mr Dane said to Tracy1:

try to understand and grasp this group of people, which can be quite different than 99% of other people, regarding the importance of having good and loving mutual sex.


 

If you really wanted to understand your asexual partner I suggest you stop telling her/him of the importance of having good and loving mutual sex because the fact is that for MANY asexuals, depending on their type they do not feel sex is important at all.

 

If it's important to you, then you two are not compatible.

 

Sex was and is not important to me.  I feel love just cuddling and planning our future and watching each other's back.   I do not need sex.  That is one reason why I will not rekindle my relationship, now, with my ex husband.

 

I do not need sex.  He does.   I set him free so he can find a wife who likes sex as much as he does.

 

He wants to remarry.  He claims he changed, but I doubt it seriously.  He most likely still likes sex.  I could live forever without it. 

 

I am not taking the chance of him once again trying to convince me of the importance of sex in a loving relationship.  Besides, after he cheated, i no longer trust him.  But I did love him enough to set him free. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tracy1 said:

 

If you research oxytocin at scientific sites, you will see simply cuddling releases plenty of oxytocin.


 

If you really wanted to understand your asexual partner I suggest you stop telling her/him of the importance of having good and loving mutual sex because the fact is that for MANY asexuals, depending on their type they do not feel sex is important at all.

 

If it's important to you, then you two are not compatible.

 

Sex was and is not important to me.  I feel love just cuddling and planning our future and watching each other's back.   I do not need sex.  That is one reason why I will not rekindle my relationship, now, with my ex husband.

 

I do not need sex.  He does.   I set him free so he can find a wife who likes sex as much as he does.

 

He wants to remarry.  He claims he changed, but I doubt it seriously.  He most likely still likes sex.  I could live forever without it. 

 

I am not taking the chance of him once again trying to convince me of the importance of sex in a loving relationship.  Besides, after he cheated, i no longer trust him.  But I did love him enough to set him free. 

 

 

I do want to understand her and I dont tell her. (I kindly take up the topic, maybe twice a year, to know how she feel and if things are to much for her, and if our compromise needs to be adjusted, she knows my stance, and to me, that is being very thoughtful, showing empathy and patience) Yes, we have a compatibility-issue! That is why I talk to you guys on aven. Kind words, kisses and cuddles also gives a good flow of oxytocin and other feel-goodies and togethernessfeeling, bonding... but she is not that much into that either.

 

i would never cheat or lie to her. But Im not sure I want to sacrifice my sexuality for anyone, since it also comes with deepfelt depression, so we need to keep working on solutions.

 

I would, as Telecaster kind of mentioned, feel the same awkward degree of rejection, if she told me: " look, I would like us to talk less together. What you say are just not really that interesting. It doesnt fuel my energy and give me things to wonder about. It actually never has and you can do what you want, but it never will.sometimes it is ok, and even nice, when we have a talk, but I never look forward for next time. Often I get a bit of stress about the fact, that you would like to talk more. I love you immensely, but let us keep talk on a minimum!"

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5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I can still have sex with her. There are sexual activities that bring about that same level of closeness that don't involve penetration. The point is the desire for sexual activity, and the damage is done when one partner blanket dismisses something that affects their partner deeply, purely because they don't feel it. That's a complete lack of empathy, and that's where the intimacy dies.

 

If there was a level of disability that completely prevented anything physical - which would basically have to be total paralysis - then, yes, I'd expect the levels of emotional involvement to decrease markedly, but not necessarily love. It would be very, very hard in all sorts of ways on the able bodied partner, as along with sex, their shared life would inevitably more or less disappear. This is well recognised in the medical and care community.

Imagine if your partner, for some reason incomprehensible to you, could only feel emotionally satisfied if you performed an activity that you found painful or disgusting, like cleaning a sewer or rubbing against sandpaper. What's more they wanted you to actively desire and enjoy it and if you didn't they would feel hurt. Even if you did for their sake, they would never be fully satisfied because you didn't show enough enthusiasm and it would cause their self confidence to plummet even though you not wanting to do the activity had nothing to do with them personally. Your partner would want to do this activity several times a  week and every single time it would drain you and it would never stop. You would realize other people could do this activity without any distress whatsoever, meanwhile what you did out of sacrifice would never be as good as what they did out of joy precisely because they could enjoy it. That's what it would be like for an asexual in a relationship with a sexual.

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Telecaster68

Oh I get all that m4ble - I was just responding to Tracy's blanket unqualified assertions that sex was unnecessary for everyone because she feels it is for her.

 

When sex is distressing in the way you describe (and I completely accept that it is for some people) then they're basically incompatible. However it's not like that for all asexuals - some are 'meh' about it, others enjoy it, they just don't need it. And for many, there is room for compromise, which may or may not work out in the longer term.

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2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Oh I get all that m4ble - I was just responding to Tracy's blanket unqualified assertions that sex was unnecessary for everyone because she feels it is for her.

 

When sex is distressing in the way you describe (and I completely accept that it is for some people) then they're basically incompatible. However it's not like that for all asexuals - some are 'meh' about it, others enjoy it, they just don't need it. And for many, there is room for compromise, which may or may not work out in the longer term.

Sexuals enjoy it, aces do not, at least not in my book.

 

I also don't think that there could by any room for any kind of compromise that could be even remotely healthy Tele. Between sexuals and fake-asexuals (we assholes opting for zero sex because we are mean people and hate you all, super deluxe snowflakes, it seems) there's a full physical and emotional incompatibility on intimacy level. When someone's sexual norm is "please zero as it does jack for me but I love you, you know" and someone else is "regularly with shared passion, desire and envy because I love you very much, you know" there's no way this can be healthy or remotely work in a mid to long term relationship where partners are supposed to be happily sleeping together in the same bed.

 

I do understand that there's a huge worldwide issue within mixed couples because we, fake-asexuals, have been in the closet, while not even knowing what was different with us, way too long. But, in my book at least, this has to start to stop now and fake-asexuals should not mix up with sexuals or asexuals.

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Friendly reminder to keep things CIVIL when discussing this subject. Please refrain from ANY personal attacks.

I'd also like to remind you that invalidating an individuals (a)sexuality is not allowed on Aven. It's highly reccomended to walk away from your computer should you disagree with what a member has posted in this forum and return to the discussion once calmed down.Second, there is also the ignore option or the report button so the admod team can deal with the situation.It's strongly adviced to make use of these options rather then engaging in any personal attacks.

 

Failure to adhere will result in me locking this thread.

 

Jayce, Asexual Relationships moderator.

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Telecaster68

Nid

 

There are quite a lot of posts from asexuals who say they're okay with accommodating their partners' sexual needs and enjoy the closeness. It needs the asexual to be okay with the act and enjoy the closeness, and the sexual to be okay with not being innately desired and get enough from the closeness. Does happen, though it's not easy and I suspect often doesn't last more than a few months.

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Asexual means you're not sexual. It doesn't mean you can't under any circumstances get anything positive out of sexual acts.

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Tele

 

But how many of those posts are actually mid to long time mixed relationships, from mature and experienced adults, that are/were healthy and actually work(ed) to some extend?

Serran, Pan, Sally and many others (including some men bad experiences) on the ace side clearly show that it brings huge issues and that even willingly trying to compromise isn't healthy at all. Both you and MrDane clearly showed us the amount of distress and pain it causes on the sexual side.

 

I won't say, don't try it if you want to, but it seems already difficult to have a stable relationship within the same orientation so why try something that has a very low % of chance to work. Just see the post of one of our female members that is giving it a try while both parties new what they were going themselves into at start of the relationship. She's compromising but it's not enough and not working as he expects somthing very different she will never be able to give.

 

I don't now Tele, it's fishy and something smells here. :(

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Telecaster68
Quote

But how many of those posts are actually mid to long time mixed relationships, from mature and experienced adults, that are/were healthy and actually work(ed) to some extend?

Some, but I agree it often doesn't work longer term, and even if the relationship survives, it may not be great. But compromise can work, sometimes.

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10 minutes ago, Nidwin said:

so why try something that has a very low % of chance to work.

Because cool calculations are not usually how we choose our partners.

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Tracy1

''
As for oxytocin, you do relalize that simply cuddling stimulates the release of oxytocin.   Oxytocin is what stimulates a mother to bond with her child.  She need not have sex with tht child to bond. She simply needs to cuddle it. ''

"I think most scientists would say that motherhood releases more oxytocin after giving birth.    Men produce far less oxytocin than do women after sex, please do your homework."

It's a compIeteIy different feeIing though (maybe the same hormone but it reacts differentIy in the body depending on the situation) Orgasming with a Ioving partner produces a different but stiII very powerfuI fIood of bonding feeIings than birthing or breastfeeding a baby does (I have two kids). That's how it works for me anyway. I have at no point feIt for my kids the same things I feeI after orgasming with my partner ...which wouId be super weird if I did due to the feeIings for my partner being entwined with romantic and sensuaI desire and pIeasure. 
 

Quote

Tracy1 
"
Do you really believe that ALL WOMEN or even most would be okay without penetration?"

You can penetrate a woman with fingers or toys, and many women actuaIIy receive far greater pIeasure from stimuIation of the cIitoris than from vaginaI penetration (it's not Iike Iesbians REQUIRE their femaIe partners to wear a strap-on for every sexuaI encounter yet they stiII experience sexuaI satisfaction)

 

Quote

Tracy1 
"
You cans snuggle, you can hold hands, you can boost their ego, you can do all manner of kind things.  I did all those things for my husband.  Sex need not be associated with a loving intimate relationship."

For the vast majority of sexuaI peopIe, sex reaIIy is a very important (even integraI) aspect of romantic intimacy. That's just a fact. An orgasm from masturbation aIone is in no way comparibIe to partnered sexuaI pIeasure with a Iover, for many sexuaI peopIe.

 

Yes sexuaI peopIe have sex without Iove aII the time (that's very common) but sex WITH Iove is stiII an integraI part of romantic reIationships for aImost aII romantic sexuaI peopIe.

 

Quote

Tracy1:
''
Look, I am sorry that your wife has lost interest in sex.  It is very common.   Sexless marriages are very common among people over 50.  Do your homework than get back to me.
''

A sIow decIine in sexuaI intimacy between a Iong-term coupIe is quite common, yes. But that's a naturaI progression of Iong-term reIationships as a resuIt of age, hormone changes etc. However for peopIe not going through the changes that age often brings, sex is often an integraI part of romantic intimacy, and many coupIes continue to have and enjoy sex into oId age.

 

Then of course there are 80 year oIds who have more sex now than they did in their youth though that's Iess common.

 

Quote

 

Tanzanite:

OK, I understood her viewpoint until somewhere around this little sentence: "I told him either he return to our bed and we have marital relations on a regular basis or I want him to leave "

 

I...no. Ultimatums like that are HORRIBLE ways of dealing with this. You basically just told your husband to either make himself go through this or it's over! And then the rest of this destroyed any sympathy I had. Asexual or not, the husband doesn't need anybody like that.

 

WeII if she couIdn't be happy in a reIationship without sex she had every right to end it, I don't see what's wrong with that. Now they can hopefuIIy both find partners they're happier with.

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12 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Oh I get all that m4ble - I was just responding to Tracy's blanket unqualified assertions that sex was unnecessary for everyone because she feels it is for her.

 

When sex is distressing in the way you describe (and I completely accept that it is for some people) then they're basically incompatible. However it's not like that for all asexuals - some are 'meh' about it, others enjoy it, they just don't need it. And for many, there is room for compromise, which may or may not work out in the longer term.

Telecaster:

 

For the third time.  I never said that SEX WAS UNECESSARY FOR EVERYONE BECAUSE (I) FEEL IT IS (not needed for me)

 

Are you actually reading my posts.  I even mentioned that I would have been cool with my husband having sex with a call girl. 

 

Please re-read my posts.

 

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21 hours ago, MrDane said:

I do want to understand her and I dont tell her. (I kindly take up the topic, maybe twice a year, to know how she feel and if things are to much for her, and if our compromise needs to be adjusted, she knows my stance, and to me, that is being very thoughtful, showing empathy and patience) Yes, we have a compatibility-issue! That is why I talk to you guys on aven. Kind words, kisses and cuddles also gives a good flow of oxytocin and other feel-goodies and togethernessfeeling, bonding... but she is not that much into that either.

 

i would never cheat or lie to her. But Im not sure I want to sacrifice my sexuality for anyone, since it also comes with deepfelt depression, so we need to keep working on solutions.

 

I would, as Telecaster kind of mentioned, feel the same awkward degree of rejection, if she told me: " look, I would like us to talk less together. What you say are just not really that interesting. It doesnt fuel my energy and give me things to wonder about. It actually never has and you can do what you want, but it never will.sometimes it is ok, and even nice, when we have a talk, but I never look forward for next time. Often I get a bit of stress about the fact, that you would like to talk more. I love you immensely, but let us keep talk on a minimum!"

MR DANE:

 

I am sorry you are dealing with this issue.  I know it is distressful for both those who enjoy sex and those who do not.

 

I wish I had an easy solution for you.  Or, an easy way for you to understand your wife's mindset.

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On 1/4/2017 at 8:32 PM, Tracy1 said:

Telecaster:

 

Do you really believe that ALL WOMEN or even most would be okay without penetration?  My acquaintance whose husband has ED, does not agree. She feels penetration along with foreplay is the most appealing sexually.  She likes foreplay, but without penetration, to her, and to many other women I have talked to, the sexual act is not as satisfying.

Tracy1, I fully agree with almost everything you have written here (and the person you debated with truly does appear to be here to argue with asexuals), but on that particular point, to quote feminist Andrea Dworkin: "No woman needs intercourse; few escape it."  ;) 

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Telecaster68

I'm not here to 'argue with asexuals'. I'm here to challenge a bunch of generalities Tracy made about how partnered sex isn't a need for anybody.

 

And I know many, many women who would disagree with that asinine Dworkin soundbite.

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