About Kids

[butterflydreams]

I'm wondering if other people here feel the same kinds of things I do about this and if so, how you're able to articulate them to others (if you're able).

 

I understand that there are a lot of "no kids" people here, and that's fine. There was some thread elsewhere about it, and I said, "yay kids" in a sea of "no kids" and I felt bad. But the more I let myself be my true nature, the more I realize it's something important to me.

 

I can't really be non-TMI about this, so I'll just try to use euphemisms.

 

When I first started HRT, the doctor asked me if I wanted to "save some of myself" in case I wanted my own kids. I said absolutely not. Not because I didn't want kids, but because the though of doing that...or even contributing that specific element to the creation of a child feels like the antithesis of who and what I am. I feel like if you've got the womb hardware and are trans (not-female), that's very straightforward. There'd be a very direct and continuous (for a time) involvement in that process. I can imagine that being horribly dysphoria-inducing...say no more.

 

But I have trouble articulating how I feel. For me, there'd be very little involvement. Kinda just one shot and done. Hell, with science, had I "saved some of myself", I wouldn't have to do anything. But something about just knowing...like, I can't. I'm under no delusions that I can have a kid the same way someone with a womb could (which is heartbreaking in a way that's hard to describe, but those are the breaks). But in some strange way, it's just as dysphoria-inducing for me imagining using my AMAB hardware or even pieces to create a child. Does this make any sense? Am I crazy?

[ChillaKilla]

It totally makes sense. I'd feel dysphoric even about saving *grimace* ...eggs to potentially create a kid. Even though I'm not a kid person, I know this would be true 100%. I might sell them in the future, Idk, but that might even make me dysphoric too. It's like even acknowledging it hurts a bit.

 

*gives uterus to hadley* you need this more than me... wait, no, it's a terrible one and you don't want the pain that comes with it...

[butterflydreams]

Thanks, @ChillaKilla. I'd gladly take it off your hands for you if I could. I don't care about the pain. It'd be a small price to pay. I'm trying to change my thinking on it to focus on the other aspects of motherhood that aren't limited by biology.

 

It helps to hear you say that it would be dysphoric to even use what you have. That's exactly what I was getting at. I was talking about it with my therapist, and I felt like I was having trouble articulating it. Once I realized HRT had probably shut all that stuff down permantly...I was incredibly relieved. But people don't understand. "How can you not want to have your own children biologically?!?!" Because I wasn't born with eggs. It's that simple really.

[Mychemicalqpr]

Just wanted to say I think it's perfectly understandable for you to feel the way you do, Hadley.  I used to say I hated the idea of having kids.  I've recently come to realize that it's not the idea of a kid itself I hate--it's the idea of having a mother role. There's nothing wrong with raising kids that don't have your genes. If I do raise kid(s), that's how it'll be for me. 

[AVEN #1 fan]

1 hour ago, Hadley167 said:

Thanks, @ChillaKilla. I'd gladly take it off your hands for you if I could. I don't care about the pain. It'd be a small price to pay. I'm trying to change my thinking on it to focus on the other aspects of motherhood that aren't limited by biology.

 

It helps to hear you say that it would be dysphoric to even use what you have. That's exactly what I was getting at. I was talking about it with my therapist, and I felt like I was having trouble articulating it. Once I realized HRT had probably shut all that stuff down permantly...I was incredibly relieved. But people don't understand. "How can you not want to have your own children biologically?!?!" Because I wasn't born with eggs. It's that simple really.

Oh well, I'm not in the same place as Hadley, I'd rather adopt children instead bc for me I think it's more important and I don't believe I'll end up with someone who has the capacity of having kids with me and wants such.

You can always look forward adoption, there's lots of kids abandoned out there while more kids are brought to life.

However biology is wonderful, I'm a biology student myself, lol, nerd, but I heard stories of  Trans ladies having babies with their cis lady partners, Trans ladies having kids with Trans dudes, and Trans dudes having kids with cis dudes, it's all about how much dysphoria impacts in your life, there's Trans men who doesn't care about it and get pregnant and breastfeed if they can, Trans woman breastfeed as well. And some Trans people gets very dysphoric about that, it's a lot bc we expect reproduction to be a gendered thing instead of a contribution of 2 human beings to create a new life.

In a near future, people will be able to create life with anyone and even without the need of other person, scientists are studying the capacity that mammals have of "homosexual", "polygamous" and "asexual" reproduction, however barriers like religion, ethic and moral are slowing researches in many countries, like what happens with any other biological research. And the only thing that will be lacking is a womb, but surrogacy exists for some reason. You can Google about it, it's very interesting, also a kid was already born with 2 biological mothers and 1 biological father. There's a rat born with 2 mothers as well.

Also, pls don't let infertility bring you down, a lot of people are infertile and giving birth isn't the only reason people are alive, you are not useless.

[Toothlesss]

I'd be dysphoric because of the breast growth that happens because of pregnancy. If I ever got bigger breasts, for whatever reason, I'd hate it. 

 

I don't think I've ever had a fear of the process of pregnancy and childbirth _{(when I was a child, I'd always say I wanted to be a mommy lol),} it's more the crazy body changes that happen in the nine months preceding birth. 

[butterflydreams]

3 hours ago, twilightstarr said:

Just wanted to say I think it's perfectly understandable for you to feel the way you do, Hadley.  I used to say I hated the idea of having kids.  I've recently come to realize that it's not the idea of a kid itself I hate--it's the idea of having a mother role. There's nothing wrong with raising kids that don't have your genes. If I do raise kid(s), that's how it'll be for me. 

This is similar to what happened for me. In many ways, it parallels other things that have shifted for me during transition. Basically as I accept myself as I really am, things that I closed off open up. Real relationships, parenthood, even some burgeoning sexual feelings. All of it has turned on for me, and it makes so much sense. How would a woman feel if you INSISTED she couldn't be a mother, but had to be a father? Opt out maybe? That's what I did. It's interesting to see it all showing up for the first time in my life.

[AVEN #1 fan]

27 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

This is similar to what happened for me. In many ways, it parallels other things that have shifted for me during transition. Basically as I accept myself as I really am, things that I closed off open up. Real relationships, parenthood, even some burgeoning sexual feelings. All of it has turned on for me, and it makes so much sense. How would a woman feel if you INSISTED she couldn't be a mother, but had to be a father? Opt out maybe? That's what I did. It's interesting to see it all showing up for the first time in my life.

Hadley,  nobody is forcing you to be a father,  your kids will see you as a mother, they wouldn't care if you were born with a penis or vulva.  children need parents , biological or not . If even cissy butchy lesbians can be mother figures why can't a Trans women be one?  it makes me sad to see Trans people bc society sees pregnancy as a gendered process and fertility a requisite. And there's tons of infertile cis ladies out there, you don't have to blame yourself for not having the "required equipment" for being a "perfect" woman.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I wouldn't have kids if you paid me but I understand about the dysphoria; I won't look down at my body because I hate what I see. I hate having lumps on my chest and wide hips, hate, hate, hate. I can only imagine how horrible it would be if I had to consider saving eggs. I don't think you're crazy at all.

[AVEN #1 fan]

31 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

I wouldn't have kids if you paid me but I understand about the dysphoria; I won't look down at my body because I hate what I see. I hate having lumps on my chest and wide hips, hate, hate, hate. I can only imagine how horrible it would be if I had to consider saving eggs. I don't think you're crazy at all.

Germ cells only last 10 years frozen.

Even if either of you froze them, I wonder if y'all would have the psychological/physical/financial conditions to create a kid in 10 years.

My parents took like 15 years of dating to get married and plus more 5 years to decide to create a kid.

[dissolved]

I like other people's kids, mostly because I know I can give them back at the end of the day

 

I never had a choice in the fertility aspect of life - I had a fallopian tube and ovary removed when I was pretty young due to an unknown mass, and the other side is basically scar tissue for whatever reason. Sticking to euphemisms, I never really experienced anything "monthly". I'm not entirely convinced any of it works, to be honest. Still, even if I could've had the choice, my dysphoria probably would've said no. I cannot fathom trans guys who are willing to get pregnant. I mean, if you can deal with it then that's awesome but I don't think I'd survive very long brewing my own children. It's another thing that assures me I'm a 100% blokey bloke - nothing was ever meant to come outta me like that, unless we're talking Alien-Sigourney-Weaver-esque.

[butterflydreams]

@dissolved I hear exactly what you're saying. I feel like the relief I felt when I realized HRT had probably finished off my own natural fertility was as good a sign as any that I made the right decision. In a weird way, I think I followed the natural girl coming-of-age thought process around kids. When I was really little, I thought "no way, that looks like it hurts, I'm glad, etc". But then I got older, and thought, "wow, I wish I could do that."

 

I think in making this thread I just wanted reassuarnace that I wasn't off-base feeling dysphoria about this. My mom recently went off on me saying she wanted me to be "a father" and be "loved by a child I fathered". That hurt. Just imagining using myself for that purpose hurt.

[AVEN #1 fan]

21 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

@dissolved I hear exactly what you're saying. I feel like the relief I felt when I realized HRT had probably finished off my own natural fertility was as good a sign as any that I made the right decision. In a weird way, I think I followed the natural girl coming-of-age thought process around kids. When I was really little, I thought "no way, that looks like it hurts, I'm glad, etc". But then I got older, and thought, "wow, I wish I could do that."

 

I think in making this thread I just wanted reassuarnace that I wasn't off-base feeling dysphoria about this. My mom recently went off on me saying she wanted me to be "a father" and be "loved by a child I fathered". That hurt. Just imagining using myself for that purpose hurt.

Omg,  your mom is so nonsense, my mom still believes that someday I'll want sex, have kids and marry someone of the opposite sex. And I'm just like b#### pls... my online friends know me better than you knew me my whole life. And you are so right, it hurts like hell when people want to throw gender roles at you and "fix" you.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Hang in there Hadley; it's awful when people say things like that, especially your family, but you know that we all support you regardless (unless you murder someone, that's a grey area).

[Calligraphette_Coe]

20 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

 

But I have trouble articulating how I feel. For me, there'd be very little involvement. Kinda just one shot and done. Hell, with science, had I "saved some of myself", I wouldn't have to do anything. But something about just knowing...like, I can't. I'm under no delusions that I can have a kid the same way someone with a womb could (which is heartbreaking in a way that's hard to describe, but those are the breaks). But in some strange way, it's just as dysphoria-inducing for me imagining using my AMAB hardware or even pieces to create a child. Does this make any sense? Am I crazy?

 

I think I die a single dysphoric death every time it's said to me anything about 'fathering' a child. That's just not who or what I am. And can't be. I can't get through the motions and I'd live in terror that my DNA would pass on some of the things that were genetically wrong about how I was put together. I know what a hard life it's been for me, and I couldn't chance wishing that on someone else.

 

Besides,  I think there is more to parenting than the biology of swapping gametes. For me, it takes the form of being an empathetic nurturer. Being the Gatherer parent instead of the Hunter parent. And even though we've come a long way in medicine, there's always a danger in childbirth for the female.

 

I try never to dwell on it. Things are what they are, and for every door that's closed to you, there's often one which will open a whole new wonderful world to you if you just know the magic words and deeds. Your DNA isn't the only gift you can give to those who follow you in life on this place in the cosmos.

[Evren]

I can definitely understand that feeling. I try not to ever think about the organs that happen to be inhabiting my body at all. I would happily give you mine Hadley if I could, although I have to warn you that mine may be worse on the pain front than Chillas. I spend quite a bit of time imagining the bits that I should have are just off in some alternate reality with phantom sensations. 

The idea of using those organs for anything is horrifying. Growing a baby inside me euggg. It makes me shudder just to think about it. 

I wouldn't want a child regardless of my equipment, but my current organs cause much more dysphoria than the right bits would.

[ChillaKilla]

44 minutes ago, Evren said:

I can definitely understand that feeling. I try not to ever think about the organs that happen to be inhabiting my body at all. I would happily give you mine Hadley if I could, although I have to warn you that mine may be worse on the pain front than Chillas. I spend quite a bit of time imagining the bits that I should have are just off in some alternate reality with phantom sensations. 

The idea of using those organs for anything is horrifying. Growing a baby inside me euggg. It makes me shudder just to think about it. 

I wouldn't want a child regardless of my equipment, but my current organs cause much more dysphoria than the right bits would.

I've wanted to take a knife and slice open my torso because it would hurt LESS than endometriosis. I've left school and been to the emergency room. Try me  

[Evren]

20 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

I've wanted to take a knife and slice open my torso because it would hurt LESS than endometriosis. I've left school and been to the emergency room. Try me  

I've spent three days throwing everything up in my stomach and laying on the bathroom floor, crying and hoping for a quick death. I mistook my appendix needing to be removed for period pain. My mother wouldn't take me to the emergency room, because I needed to Quote "Get over it" Unquote, so I can't fight you on that one.  lol, let's just agree that both our internal bits suck.

[AVEN #1 fan]

12 minutes ago, Evren said:

I've spent three days throwing everything up in my stomach and laying on the bathroom floor, crying and hoping for a quick death. I mistook my appendix needing to be removed for period pain. My mother wouldn't take me to the emergency room, because I needed to Quote "Get over it" Unquote, so I can't fight you on that one.  lol, let's just agree that both our internal bits suck.

I once got to the emergency room for having gases mistaken as appendicitis when I was 7. Lol cramps sucks. My mom still hates me for it i guess. V.V

[Mychemicalqpr]

Oh, we're period ranting now?  I've passed out a couple times.  Also sometimes it flows so fast I can barely sit through a class without going to the bathroom.  At least it doesn't last long, on the bright side.  

[AVEN #1 fan]

18 minutes ago, twilightstarr said:

Oh, we're period ranting now?  I've passed out a couple times.  Also sometimes it flows so fast I can barely sit through a class without going to the bathroom.  At least it doesn't last long, on the bright side.  

That awkward moment when OP is sad bc her infertility and people be like complaining about their fertility. Ironies of life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ChillaKilla]

I think it's turned into "who is the worst possible person to give Hadley a uterus"

[Mychemicalqpr]

Just now, AVEN #1 fan said:

That awkward moment when OP is sad bc her infertility and people be like complaining about their fertility. Ironies of life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, it goes both ways.  Sometimes I have to sigh and let go of jealousy at AMABs for things.  That is something I maybe should have considered though.  I'm sorry if we're making you sad now @Hadley167? 

[AVEN #1 fan]

13 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

I think it's turned into "who is the worst possible person to give Hadley a uterus"

Better question: who can surrogate for Hadley?

[AVEN #1 fan]

14 minutes ago, twilightstarr said:

Well, it goes both ways.  Sometimes I have to sigh and let go of jealousy at AMABs for things.  That is something I maybe should have considered though.  I'm sorry if we're making you sad now @Hadley167? 

Everybody is jealous of AMAB cismen , they have it better. '-'

[butterflydreams]

19 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

I think it's turned into "who is the worst possible person to give Hadley a uterus"

Hehe, well with my luck, had I been born female biologically, I'd probably be like my sister, and she definitely complained a lot about pain so...

 

19 minutes ago, twilightstarr said:

Well, it goes both ways.  Sometimes I have to sigh and let go of jealousy at AMABs for things.  That is something I maybe should have considered though.  I'm sorry if we're making you sad now @Hadley167? 

Oh no, not at all. Sometimes people try to do a "gotcha" on trans women like, "oh, but you probably don't want a period, and pain, etc, etc...see, you're not really a woman." And I'm like, dude, are you dense? I'd take all of it if I could. Dysphoria isn't just a need for the good parts. I'd have no hesitations about it at all.

[AVEN #1 fan]

12 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

Hehe, well with my luck, had I been born female biologically, I'd probably be like my sister, and she definitely complained a lot about pain so...

 

Oh no, not at all. Sometimes people try to do a "gotcha" on trans women like, "oh, but you probably don't want a period, and pain, etc, etc...see, you're not really a woman." And I'm like, dude, are you dense? I'd take all of it if I could. Dysphoria isn't just a need for the good parts. I'd have no hesitations about it at all.

As a non-binary I can say I do not want to menstruate nor ejaculate, I'm better sterile.

[Mychemicalqpr]

Just now, Hadley167 said:

"oh, but you probably don't want a period, and pain, etc, etc...see, you're not really a woman."

A lot of "real women" don't want period pain and etc though.  

[AVEN #1 fan]

9 minutes ago, twilightstarr said:

A lot of "real women" don't want period pain and etc though.  

A lot of "real women" take anticonceptive drugs to not menstruate. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[butterflydreams]

Just now, twilightstarr said:

A lot of "real women" don't want period pain and etc though.  

Hehe, exactly...which is why it's such a bunk argument  But then, transphobes...rational arguments? I won't hold my breath.

 

Overall though, I think it's more important for me to focus on the rest of motherhood, rather than just the approximately 1 year at the beginning. It's not my body configuration that determines my ability to be a good mother.