Sensual?

[Imaperson]

I have a question about a certain sensual act I've desired to do, I'm not exactly sure if it counts as sexual or sensual, I view it as sensual, I really just wanted someone else's view on it? But I'm a really romantic-sensual asexual, I don't see myself as gray either. I don't desire sex at all (meaning anything involving the genitals), and never have. But one sensual act I've wanted to do was nipple licking and sucking, that doesn't lead to sex or anything like that. So hopefully with another asexual partner that is also sensual. But yeah I just want to make sure I'm not being naive or ignorant, and that this is objectively sexual? 

[Imaperson]

I'm also not sure if I posted this in the correct topic area.):

[MrDane]

57 minutes ago, Imaperson said:

I have a question about a certain sensual act I've desired to do, I'm not exactly sure if it counts as sexual or sensual, I view it as sensual, I really just wanted someone else's view on it? But I'm a really romantic-sensual asexual, I don't see myself as gray either. I don't desire sex at all (meaning anything involving the genitals), and never have. But one sensual act I've wanted to do was nipple licking and sucking, that doesn't lead to sex or anything like that. So hopefully with another asexual partner that is also sensual. But yeah I just want to make sure I'm not being naive or ignorant, and that this is objectively sexual? 

...so you dont want sex, but would like to 'lick nipples!?' It sound a bit like a fetish, but does it really matter what it is? 

Dream scenario?

"Look, I like you and I would really like to lick your nipples, but it is not foreplay and I dont want sex at all!"

"me neither, but please lick away!"

[SecEagle]

That- is a really good question. I guess the question is where the desire I coming from. As you said, your desire to do that is more- umm... Curiosity I'd say? Correct me if I'm wrong. Even so it comes from another need, not sexual for you. 

For you it might not be sexual but for others it probably will. I believe it's how you perceive the act rather than what it is technically. Definition wise it's like this: "

• 1:  of, relating to, or associated with sex or the sexes <sexualdifferentiation> <sexualconflict>

• 2:  having or involving sex <sexual reproduction>.

by merriam Webster.

So I'd say it is definition wise not sexual.

But again, depends on how you perceive it not term-wise.

[Imaperson]

1 minute ago, MrDane said:

...so you dont want sex, but would like to 'lick nipples!?' It sound a bit like a fetish, but does it really matter what it is? 

Dream scenario?

"Look, I like you and I would really like to lick your nipples, but it is not foreplay and I dont want sex at all!"

"me neither, but please lick away!"

Well I've read that asexuals can enjoy fetish activities as well. When you put it that way it sounds strange but obviously that's no where near how'd it go. And I've known asexuals to like back rubs and neck kissing and things like that, and they don't want it to lead to sex, which these things are a lot of the time used as foreplay. Idk I've always thought of it as an intimate sensual activity. 

[Imaperson]

1 minute ago, SecEagle said:

That- is a really good question. I guess the question is where the desire I coming from. As you said, your desire to do that is more- umm... Curiosity I'd say? Correct me if I'm wrong. Even so it comes from another need, not sexual for you. 

For you it might not be sexual but for others it probably will. I believe it's how you perceive the act rather than what it is technically. Definition wise it's like this: "

• 1:  of, relating to, or associated with sex or the sexes <sexualdifferentiation> <sexualconflict>

• 2:  having or involving sex <sexual reproduction>.

by merriam Webster.

So I'd say it is definition wise not sexual.

But again, depends on how you perceive it not term-wise.

Yeah I know a lot of people use this with sex, and well my desire comes from just wanting to be sensually intimate with them. I'm starting to think it's really based on how the people involved view it. 

[borkfork]

Yes, we have a good amount of fetishists and kinksters here. 

 

Stop worrying about definitions and fitting into the asexual box. You like sensual things? Do sensual things (as long as it's consensual  ).

[Imaperson]

Just now, borkfork said:

Yes, we have a good amount of fetishists and kinksters here. 

 

Stop worrying about definitions and fitting into the asexual box. You like sensual things? Do sensual things (as long as it's consensual  ).

Thank you! So im not strange for being an asexual that wants to do this? ): I feel kinda weird asking the question and really hesitated on it. 

[MrDane]

I dont think you are weird! 

 It was a good question

[Imaperson]

Just now, MrDane said:

I dont think you are weird! 

 It was a good question

Well thank you!(: 

[Imaperson]

.

[Star Bit]

Some asexuals like to identify as Gray-asexual because their fetishes fall too close to being sexual.

[Imaperson]

5 minutes ago, Star Bit said:

Some asexuals like to identify as Gray-asexual because their fetishes fall too close to being sexual.

Yeah I know, but I'm not really comfortable with that label. That makes it seem like I want sex when I don't at all. Also personally I don't see it as sexual. 

[Star Bit]

Actually it doesn't. Gray-sexual is for people who can desire sex, Gray-asexual is for people who are effectively asexual but mentally desire sex, or as said, desire to enact fetishes that fall too close to being sexual.

 

But if you desired this for the sexual arousal of yourself or your partner then that'd actually fall under "secondary sex" (not an actual practiced term but it explains what i need it to; something that is borderline sex/can be considered sex because it is partnered genital stimulation, just not directly so). In which case Quasisexual could work to describe people who desire this.

[Imaperson]

6 minutes ago, Star Bit said:

Actually it doesn't. Gray-sexual is for people who can desire sex, Gray-asexual is for people who are effectively asexual but mentally desire sex, or as said, desire to enact fetishes that fall too close to being sexual.

 

But if you desired this for the sexual arousal of yourself or your partner then that'd actually fall under "secondary sex" (not an actual practiced term but it explains what i need it to; something that is borderline sex/can be considered sex because it is partnered genital stimulation, just not directly so). In which case Quasisexual could work to describe people who desire this.

Ah! Well I only desire it as a sensual act, or an intimate non-sexual act. Not for anything genital related. But thank you fro clearing that up. But idk I'm still kinda confused. If I'd be misslabeling myself because I desire it. But I don't desire sex mentally or physically. 

[Star Bit]

Platonic is defined as non-sexual; a minority include non-romantic. To make my point clear on this matter, and idk if you do, but lets say you dont desire it for romantic reasons either, but licking someones nipple is certainly not platonic; even if sex is also not desired. So it may not be sexual in the sense that you intend it to lead to sex, but it is clearly sex-like; which is sexuals other meaning. The same goes for making out; in no culture is it platonic. So it's probably best put as 'a sexual fetish desired for non-sexual reasons'. (considering PanFicto disclosed this before i think its ok to disclose here) PanFicto has an adult breast feeding fetish desired for non-sexual reasons and identified as Gray-asexual because of this (i.e. she has recently come to desire sex with someone and nolonger identifies with it). So its pretty much the same thing.

[Imaperson]

12 minutes ago, Star Bit said:

Platonic is defined as non-sexual; a minority include non-romantic. To make my point clear on this matter, and idk if you do, but lets say you dont desire it for romantic reasons either, but licking someones nipple is certainly not platonic; even if sex is also not desired. So it may not be sexual in the sense that you intend it to lead to sex, but it is clearly sex-like; which is sexuals other meaning. The same goes for making out; in no culture is it platonic. So it's probably best put as 'a sexual fetish desired for non-sexual reasons'. (considering PanFicto disclosed this before i think its ok to disclose here) PanFicto has an adult breast feeding fetish desired for non-sexual reasons and identified as Gray-asexual because of this (i.e. she has recently come to desire sex with someone and nolonger identifies with it). So its pretty much the same thing.

Idk if this really helps though. I desire it for strictly romantic reasons. That excludes it being platonic either way. So would I be a grey asexual, that doesn't desire sex at all? (physically or mentally), but I should use the grey term because of the fetish? 

[Star Bit]

I cant really tell you what you should do; that's against AVEN's policy; you have to decide for yourself; we're just here to help with what we can; advice or definitions. All i can say is what i said before in my first post.

[Imaperson]

Just now, Star Bit said:

I cant really tell you what you should do; that's against AVEN's policy; you have to decide for yourself; we're just here to help with what we can; advice or definitions.

I honestly just feel most comfortable with the asexual label, because I like this fetish but want it for non sexual reasons. Also, since I don't want it to lead to sex and I don't desire sex at all. (physically or mentally) But would that hypocritical? 

[Star Bit]

Yah, but as said, even if its desired for non-sexual reasons its too close to sex to call it non-sexual. So desiring something for non-sexual reasons doesnt entirely make it non-sexual. If someone unconcentually gropes someones bust in public but its not done for sexual reasons its still called sexual assault; let alone the detail of licking them.

[Imaperson]

Hm, but groping someone involves the genitals, and what do you mean exactly when you say it's too close? Like, it's close to being sexual but it's technically not? 

[Star Bit]

What? No, groping does not involve the genitals, its feeling or fondling (someone) for sexual pleasure, especially against their will. Google groping. By 'too close' i mean its only something people do during or before sex so it IS sexual. As i already said before, your fetish IS sexual; sexual has more than one meaning and it falls under that other meaning of relating to sex. So it is still a sexual action even if its desired for non-sexual reasons.

[Imaperson]

Uh sorry? I thought you meant by someone gropping someone from the front or ass, I've only heard people use the word when people would grab someone from those areas, so my bad? But, idk I've actually read another person on here who's pretty active say, " anything that doesn't involve the genitals is by defintion not sex " so I keep reading really inconsistent things. Which is what made me ask, unless you're saying something can be "sexual" but it doesn't have to be sex. I've also read someone say if it doesn't lead to sex then it's not sexual so thats more inconsistencies. 

[Star Bit]

Yah, something can not be sex but still be sexual. You really need to look up definitions more.

[Imaperson]

I look up definitions constantly, and the reason I don't like the grey label is because majority of the asexuals under said label do desire sex. So that seems inconsistent as well. 

[Star Bit]

sexual dancing isn't sex but its still sexual

 

Ok, here's the history behind the Gray spectrum, and its a hint messy because this term has no fixed definition (so personally the mess is expected due to that kind of irresponsibility/over-inclusiveness). Originally, and many still define it as such, it was for anything between sexual and asexual/desiring sex and not, but then that included too much because then people started looking at the loopholes and basically it amounted to literally every sexual person is Gray and the whole point of them term is to address the abnormality. Once more things (accurately so) got put under the Gray umbrella people started using Gray-sexual and Gray-asexual with different meansings. Most say the difference is whichever side you feel you fall more toward, but this causes terms to float around and the terms then have no clear meaning and require explanation every time; defeating the purpose of using the term in the first place (i.e. they cant tell if the person can actually desire sex IRL or not). So its been somewhatly recently suggested that the terms then be separated by Gray-ace meaning effectively asexual and Gray-sexual for people who can actually desire sex with someone. So like i said, Gray-aces are effectively asexual but either mentally desire sex or have a partner enacted fetish thats too close to being sexual. AVEN's wiki also states that "Gray-A is intentionally a vague, catch-all term", so it can factually include these "gray" fetishes.

[Imaperson]

2 minutes ago, Star Bit said:

sexual dancing isn't sex but its still sexual

 

Ok, here's the history behind the Gray spectrum, and its a hint messy because this term has no fixed definition (so personally the mess is expected due to that kind of irresponsibility/over-inclusiveness). Originally, and many still define it as such, it was for anything between sexual and asexual/desiring sex and not, but then that included too much because then people started looking at the loopholes and basically it amounted to literally every sexual person is Gray and the whole point of them term is to address the abnormality. Once more things (accurately so) got put under the Gray umbrella people started using Gray-sexual and Gray-asexual with different meansings. Most say the difference is whichever side you feel you fall more toward, but this causes terms to float around and the terms then have no clear meaning and require explanation every time; defeating the purpose of a term (i.e. they cant tell if the person can actually desire sex IRL or not). So its been somewhatly recently suggested that the terms then be separated by Gray-ace meaning effectively asexual and Gray-sexual for people who can actually desire sex with someone. So like i said, Gray-aces are effectively asexual but either mentally desire sex or have a partner enacted fetish thats too close to being sexual. AVEN's wiki also states that "Gray-A is intentionally a vague, catch-all term", so it can factually include these "gray" fetishes.

I figured that was the reason. Anyway, so you're saying someone can be gray asexual yet have no desire at all for anything involving the genitals,(sex) physically or mentally? (because I don't) So I could just use the label soley because of my fetish? 

[Star Bit]

Correct. As said, there are asexuals who identify as Gray-A due to their fetishes and not a desire for sex. If someone isnt effectively asexual whats the point in them going by a term that states asexual in it? Really its just stating the person is asexual but somethings gray about them.

[Imaperson]

5 minutes ago, Star Bit said:

Correct. As said, there are asexuals who identify as Gray-A due to their fetishes and not a desire for sex. If someone isnt effectively asexual whats the point in them going by a term that states asexual in it? Really its just stating the person is asexual but somethings gray about them.

That clears it up a bit, is it possible if I could just conitinue using the asexual label, and if someone asks for more detail I could say I'm technically in the gray area because of my fetish? 

[Star Bit]

Well, a correction to part of what i said; "Really its just stating the person is asexual but somethings gray about them"

At least it really should be that way, but as said, because of its vague definitions this isnt always seen. Also, the literal term Gray-asexual already causes problems because people interpret those things to be asexual; its in the title after all, so the definitions really need to be as i said. So if they hear that some demisexuals identify as just Gray-asexual because they rarely get to the bond required to trigger their desire then they see demisexual is under Gray-A and then assume that demis are asexual or hear the phrase 'asexual spectrum' and assume they're asexual from that (which really needs to be replaced; possibly with subsexual/subromantic spectrum, though if anything at all since they're all on the sexual/romantic spectrum; sexuality and romanticism are spectrum but asexuality and aromanticism are fixed points; no rainbow). Its really a bad chain of events. So confusion on the Gray matter isnt new, sadly.

 

And yes, you can go by asexual for privacy reasons and just inform a partner of the technicality.