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Relationships with sexuals


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So relationships seem to be one of the hot topics on this board, and I couldn't help but notice that people seem to have either resigned themselves to hunting for one of the few and far between self-aware asexuals to shack up with or biting the bullet (as it were) and enduring sexuality in a relationship with a sexual person.

What about (and a few people have done this too) forming nonsexual relationships with sexual people?

Why can't we do that (or how can we?)

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Ah, another excuse to pull out my ethical non-monogamy rant. It's been a while since I've last gone off on it.

Ethical non-monogamy (i.e., polyamory, swinging, and whatever other terms have popped up; I'm just going to call it poly from here on out because it's easier) allows the sexual partner in such a relationship to go fulfill their sexual needs elsewhere, which means they're probably more likely to be willing to have a nonsexual romantic relationship. I very much recommend it for asexuals seeking such a relationship. And though it's not a miracle cure-all, and comes with its own set of problems (jealousy, for one), I think the benefits outweigh the costs.

I lurk on a poly forum or two, and from what I've seen, a significant number -- though probably not a majority -- of the non-monogamous people there seem open to nonsexual romantic relationships. Now, I don't spend time observing discussions about monogamy, so maybe I'm wrong on this, but I doubt that a comparable number of monogamous people feel that way. This is support for my little theory above -- that getting one's sexual needs fulfilled elsewhere makes one more willing to enter into a nonsexual romantic relationship -- and, if nothing else, it indicates that the poly community is a good place to hunt around for partners for such a relationship.

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I'm not in a hurry. Eventually this site will help me meet more people who aren't interested in sex, and a great friendship will develop.

Then again, it might never happen. Who knows? I don't spend much time dwelling on that issue.

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I've tried to form these kinds of relationships many times AVENguy. The more I see with everyone elses efforts, the more I begin to think it is impossible to form a nonsexual relationship with a sexual person. I also think it is easier for asexual males to find women willing to step into a nonsexual relationship like this, but eventually it will come down to sex, and will end (the nonsexual relationship) because of it. The two biggest barriers between sexuals forming nonsexual relationships with people are the belief that 1. they need sex and 2. sex and love are not separable. If they can have sex without love, how come they can't have love without sex????? It makes little sense. The other day a friend told people I was "incapable" of love...just because I said I was asexual. This is, of course, not true. I may not be capable of expressing it in the way their limited mind has been programmed to believe is the way to express it. I believe everyone has a basic need for human intimacy...some people need less of it, some people need more of it...and just because they don't have sexual attractions, doesn't mean they don't want affection. Sex is just one way among many to show affection. If you look at "Making love" (*rolls eyes*) it is mostly kissing, hugging, touching, caressing, and cuddling. If you read the Nerve article David makes a great point when he says about kissing "I didn't realize it is like 90% hugging"

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I'm David, so yeah :)

I'm currently drudging around social theory/sexual psychology to try and prove that sexual people dont' need sex and that sex and love aren't intrinsically linked. I'm getting some results, but I'll hold on posting them 'till they're polished.

Implications, though, are that we CAN, it's just a matter of getting sexuals to believe it (which I've been able to do, at least a little, on my queer-ass campus as of late. Kinda exciting..)

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Cate Perfect

Oh yeah, AVENguy, I've been meaning to comment on your 90% hugging comment in regards to kissing. In my experience it's been 90% slobber, perhaps the people I've kissed were doing it wrong. :) They were doing SOMETHING wrong, that's for certain.

Cate

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What is love?

Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more!

*bobs head a la A Night at The Roxbury*

*dodges flying shoes, cans, and rotten tomatoes* Eep! Sorry, I'll stop, I'll stop!

Boy, Bard, you sure ask some loaded questions. I'd have to think more before giving you actual responses.

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guardianoftheblind

Someone here at AVEN awhile back posted about what love is. I'm disappointed that I can't recall who said it or exactly what they said, but it involved something like 7 points. I'll do some looking around to find it, because I remember agreeing with alot of it and thought it was good.

Even when I was more confident in my asexuality, I connected love and sex on one side. Love is possible for me without sex, but sex is not possible for me without love. When I form an emotionally intimate relationship with someone, I feel the desire to have it exclusive. I feel crowded, left out, and underappreciated when the other person has other close friendships and definitely when the other person has a sexual relationship elsewhere. Maybe that seems selfish or possessive, but that's how I feel. There is a tremendous appeal for me in making a connection with one other person. That's a big part of why I want to get married, because I will have the ultimate connection with my spoupse and I will have one person with whom I share my life.

I guess my point is relationships being exclusive one-on-one is important to me, even for non-sexual ones and especially for sexual ones.

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Cate Perfect

Not even going to try to answer Bard's questions, as I think those things have different meanings for different people.

To AVENguy: don't know, I'm rather set in my young ways and I don't deal well with people being interested in me physically, I can't imagine liking someone well enough to want to have sex with them simply to appease that person.

Cate

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What is a relationship?

Generally? The conceptual description of interaction between one or more conceptual objects. (We'll allowing for something to interact with itself.)

Socially? With a capitol R? A special relationship (lowercase) in which two individuals are given license by capitalist society to blur or erase lines of private ownership.

(This allows for intimacy to develop unhindered by the otherwise-present capitalist mandate that the acquisition of profit take precedence over the formation of intimacy in nonfamilial relationships.)

What is love?

Gratitude for past fullfillment combined with the expectation of future fulfillment.

What is intimacy?

The extent to which someone feels comfortable being vulnerable towards something else or someone else.

(This determines what they feel comfortable doing in the relationships and hence is the most useful predictor of how a given relationship will behave. It is a better guage then love because love's key elements, gratitude and expectation, can vary considerably in a relatively short period of time.)

I ain't a soc-physics double-major for nothing.

If these seem arbitrary it's because I only defined them that way to go somewhere with them.

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Cate: can you imagine someone liking you well enough to not have sex?

Or can you imagine your relationships with someone being fulfilling enough that they no longer really NEED sex?

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can you imagine someone liking you well enough to not have sex?

only friends i've known for a while, though my friendships aren't deep enough :(

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bard of aven
What is a relationship?

Generally? The conceptual description of interaction between one or more conceptual objects. (We'll allowing for something to interact with itself.)

Socially? With a capitol R? A special relationship (lowercase) in which two individuals are given license by capitalist society to blur or erase lines of private ownership.

(This allows for intimacy to develop unhindered by the otherwise-present capitalist mandate that the acquisition of profit take precedence over the formation of intimacy in nonfamilial relationships.)

What is love?

Gratitude for past fullfillment combined with the expectation of future fulfillment.

What is intimacy?

The extent to which someone feels comfortable being vulnerable towards something else or someone else.

(This determines what they feel comfortable doing in the relationships and hence is the most useful predictor of how a given relationship will behave. It is a better guage then love because love's key elements, gratitude and expectation, can vary considerably in a relatively short period of time.

Great. I'm in an intimate, loving relationship with my refrigerator.

boa

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Great. I'm in an intimate, loving relationship with my refrigerator.

boa

Presumably that's why you own it.

(Though I would question the extent to which you are actually vulnerable towards your refridgerator, as long as you've got the wits not to eat bad meat it's not capable of being more than a minor inconvenience.)

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Cate Perfect

Bard: *Wiping tears from my eyes over your response*

AVENguy: I love your definitions, I think I'm going to put them on my refrigerator (with which I have a love/hate relationship).

Also to answer your question about whether or not I believe I could imagine someone essentially giving up sex for me...That's a tough one because I understand that to many people sex is a fundamental part of their personality and I wouldn't want to deny someone I cared for something they felt was vital to their well-being, but I would also resent that person for asking me to do something I was completely uninterested in.

If I were involved with someone whose passion in life was mountain climbing and that person insisted that I join in with the mountain climbing (and not just one time, but perhaps twice a week at least) and that person wanted me to enjoy the mountain climbing then it would never work. I wouldn't insist on my partner doing something she had zero interest in, so I would hope said partner would extend the same courtesy to me.

Of course, that's where we get into a difficult situation...the options are that I either allow my partner to sleep with someone else (and granted I'm a wee bit selfish to imagine that, though if the exact right situation presented itself, perhaps). OR that I ask her to not have sex at all, which is a rather awful thing to ask of someone, if it's important to that person. I mean, I wouldn't tell my partner to stop mountain climbing, I would simply say that I would not be joining her on her little expeditions. That's pretty much my philosophy about everything I am not interested in, but other people find fascinating: I don't mind if you do it, but don't feel disappointed if I don't join you. You may climb that mountain on your own.

And of course, the fact that people tend to think you don't really like them if you're not willing to get naked with them is a problem. As if whether or not you have sex with someone proves that you love them. Women especially are this way, I believe, because we are told from birth that our self-worth is based upon whether or not other people find us attractive (the beauty industry ain't making billions of dollars a year for nothing, you know?) And for loads of women, the ultimate statement of their 'worthiness' is whether or not someone finds them sexually attractive. Which is another interesting concept, as most heterosexual sexual men will sleep with nearly any woman who is willing. Anyway, I wouldn't want my partner to think I didn't find her attractive because I wasn't interested in her sexually--I find women to be quite lovely to look at, but touching them doesn't come into it at all, I don't see how those two things are related--so I would have to go out of my way to make certain she knew I loved her to the ends of the earth.

I had never considered the thought that perhaps simply being with me would be enough and my partner wouldn't feel the desire for sex. That would be fantastic! However, I'm not holding out for that, because sex seems to be such an intrinsic part of the lives of people who are interested in it I can't imagine someone just saying, 'Oh, you know, nevermind about that. Not interested any more.' And if she said that she'd give it up for me I'd feel as though I were depriving her of something important, unless, of course, she said something along the lines of, 'You know, I've never really enjoyed sex anyway.'

I'm of two minds over it, I can't stand to be touched 'that way' so that's not really an option, but I wouldn't want to deprive someone I cared for something that was important to them. I suppose I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it. You've actually just reminded me of yet another reason why I'm perfectly happy to be alone. Thanks, AVENguy.

Cate

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bard of aven
Great. I'm in an intimate, loving relationship with my refrigerator.

boa

Presumably that's why you own it.

(Though I would question the extent to which you are actually vulnerable towards your refridgerator, as long as you've got the wits not to eat bad meat it's not capable of being more than a minor inconvenience.)

Well, I don't own it, actually. It's not that kind of relationship. And one day the lease will be up, and we will each move on.

As far as vulnerability is concerned, I experience it more deeply and regularly with my refrigerator than I do with almost anything or anyone else.

And now, I will remove my tongue from my cheek and allow this thread to return to serious level of discourse it deserves.

boa

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  • 1 year later...
So relationships seem to be one of the hot topics on this board, and I couldn't help but notice that people seem to have either resigned themselves to hunting for one of the few and far between self-aware asexuals to shack up with or biting the bullet (as it were) and enduring sexuality in a relationship with a sexual person.

Or biting the *real* bullet and enduring an absense of any such relationship.

but I've a spooky fascination with being a nonsexual part of a sexual poly o__O

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HansonFan82
What is love?

Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more!

*bobs head a la A Night at The Roxbury*

*dodges flying shoes, cans, and rotten tomatoes* Eep! Sorry, I'll stop, I'll stop!

Hahahaha. I love that song.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Ah, another excuse to pull out my ethical non-monogamy rant. It's been a while since I've last gone off on it.

While I agree that it's possible for polyamorous relationships to work, it's not an option for everyone, especially where the sexual member of an asexual/sexual partnership has a tendency to form pair-bonds with people they sleep with. It also doesn't address the issue of either partner feeling left-out and/or unloved or unwanted - even taken advantage of.

Ethical non-monogamy sounds infinitely easier in theory than it is in practice.

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DarkPrincess
So relationships seem to be one of the hot topics on this board, and I couldn't help but notice that people seem to have either resigned themselves to hunting for one of the few and far between self-aware asexuals to shack up with or biting the bullet (as it were) and enduring sexuality in a relationship with a sexual person.

What about (and a few people have done this too) forming nonsexual relationships with sexual people?

Why can't we do that (or how can we?)

I actually have twice. I'm on my second marriage and haven't had sex in either marriages. In total I've been married over 16 years and it's just not an issue. I have more of a problem with it than my spouse does. I feel I'm denying him something but he's really ok with it. We do have other ways of physical affection though.

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As far as I know, all of my friends are sexuals. I'm closer with some than with others, and I have an understanding with my really good friends. We love each other as friends, and that's it.

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lol i wish i could give in. everytime iv'e gone out with a girl everytime sex is slightly considered i'm always worried that i'll never get it up. (& then avoid the ordeal)

I mean i know certain girls are good lookin but it doesn't work for me like that.

I mean do women even have to be in the mood for sex, (I doubt it) but men certinly do

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