I want to get to know my sister, but how do I tell her about my family...

[Serene Mariposa]

Hi guys

This is the first time I'm posting here, so I hope this is the right place to bring up this topic. Sorry if it's not...

Okay, so I have a sister who's basically been estranged from my Christian family because she's lesbian, but she's been making an effort to get to know us again for the couple years. She hasn't been very successful, to put it nicely, but my parents keep putting off telling her the reason why they haven't put much effort in reciprocating her interest in a relationship.

Since she lives far away, she can only visit us once a year. Right before she comes my family goes through this big ordeal because they don't want to see her wife with her (and because of my little brothers, they don't want them to "turn gay"). Her next visit is coming up and she's more than likely going to bring her wife, so my parents have decided to set up boundaries. She can't bring her wife to our house. At all. It'll be just my Dad and myself visiting with her at a restaurant or something. And they haven't told her a thing about this.

I think (I'm guessing since they rarely talk about her) my parents want to get to know her, but it hurts them to tell her that they are, in a way, rejecting her because of who she is. Not a total rejection, but a rejection nonetheless.

And then there's me. It's been a super complicated journey trying to understand where I am while all this is happening. I'm sad to say that I used to agree with them that this was the only way, but now, I just can't stand it because I've learned that there's nothing in the Bible that actually condemns gays and lesbians. And then the fact that our treatment of her has been unfair and mean, of course.

I feel like she needs to know what's really going on, but I have no idea how to start. I've been talking to her for a couple weeks since I just got her email, but I don't want to hurt her by saying too much too soon. Or should I? Would that be the kindest thing to do? The right thing?

And another thing - I really, really want to tell my parents what I think about this "gay debate" but I'm scared that they'll estrange me, too.

So what do you guys think? If you were in my situation, what would you do? I need help... :(

[Awkwardpanda]

Take my advice with a grain of salt.. I'm always tactlessly blunt and honest, and a huge supporter for LGBQT. If it were my sister, I'd ask to meet for coffee with her wife to talk. Have a good conversation, don't talk about the family, just.. life. Make it an easier conversation. It might be better to not have the wife there if you want to tell her face-to-face what's going on with the family. If you talk about it in front of the wife, it may lead to the wife getting very protective of your sister, and trying to approach the family, which is clearly not a good choice (I only say she'd get protective because I know I sure as hell would). But I would tell her what the family is doing.. it helps her trust you. It may break her heart, but it's better for her to decide on her own if she really wants to associate with a family who treats her that way.

As for you wanting to tell your family what you think about the "gay debate"... It's up to you. You need to decide if the risks are worth it. For me, it would be. I will sever relationships with anyone who proves to be homophobic, racist, etc. Those are unhealthy relationships. Unfortunately, with a lot of 'strict' Christians, they can be extremely stubborn about changing their opinions.. though it's wonderful that you have. If I were in that situation, I would tell my family honestly how I feel, and if they throw a fit, I would simply walk away.. tell them they can talk to me when they decide to use some damn common sense. Otherwise, they've lost both daughters, just because of their ignorance. It's a tragic spot to be in, but sometimes, people can only learn the hard way.. and if they refuse to learn, sometimes it's best to just cut that source of hatred out of your life and move on. :/ Idk if my rambling made any sense, but hopefully it did.

[WinterWanderer]

Definitely be honest with your sister about your family's opinions/feelings. Even if it doesn't directly help the situation, it'll help her to be prepared for whatever difficulties arise when she meets up with your parents.

You could also make a point of reestablishing contact with your sister, so that your parents see that to you, at least, family is more important than one's side on the lesbian issue. Show them that you are making an effort, and maybe they will too.

But when you're talking to your parents, try not to persuade them too hard to your side. Take it slow. Sometimes these things take time to heal. If you try to force them, they might react negatively.

Best of luck.

[Randomchaos]

My parents have friends that have a son and while they view what he is doing is wrong they don't tell him he can't bring his partner to the house. They also have younger children and they have set boundaries (no touchy feely-stuff in front of the kids and no conversations about their partnership in front of the kids.) They never disowned him or told him he couldn't come and they love him and his partner. The main point I try to make to people who say this "Oh it says in the bible this is wrong so I don't have to allow what you do or be nice to you." Is that while the bible may be against homosexuality it also says to love people no matter what, you don't have to agree with what someone is doing you just have to show them love and acceptance.

My point is maybe as long as they set those guidelines like my parents friends did it would be okay with them if your sister and her wife came over? If not you really need to have a sit down with your parents and talk to them about how this is not okay even according to the bible. And that if they are worried about it just set behavioral guidelines. If they are okay with that you should go talk to your sister and explain to her why everything is happening and ask her if she is okay with the guidelines.

I hope everything ends up going well

[Serene Mariposa]

You guys are so nice. :)

I'd love to invite her for coffee but since she lives so far away I have to settle for email and phone calls. I was originally thinking about calling her to talk about it, but that puts the pressure on her to respond immediately, so an email might be better? That way she can have the time to process it without the pressure.

[borkfork]

Maybe you could try Skype/video chat?

[Serene Mariposa]

Maybe you could try Skype/video chat?

I wanted to try Skype but in my circumstances it's rare to get an honest moment of privacy, so...yeah.

[Starlit Sky]

Honestly, she probably knows why they're not making as much of an effort as they could otherwise. This happens a lot, sad to say, and as this very scenario--as well as more extremes--is a big fear for people who are homosexual, I doubt it'll be that much of a surprise if, for whatever reason, she needs to be directly told. She knows that they've treated her differently since she came out. Why exactly wouldn't she know? I might be missing something here. . . .

Anyway, if you want to get to know her more than I say tell your parents that you really want to do that, and I think there's a fair enough chance that they'll let you do it . . . maybe. Hopefully. I don't know, because I don't know your parents. It does sound like you're a good enough bit older than your brothers to where your parents will--hopefully--say that you can make your own decisions. You can always use that card. . . .

I wouldn't say your thoughts on gay rights / gay debate. If they estranged their daughter for being lesbian, then they can estrange you, too. They might take it as you "going gay." They might see you as proof that your sister's homosexuality "infected" you, and that they need to get you out as soon as possible before you in turn infect your brothers. So seriously . . . don't. Unless you really think that it'll be a calm conversation and they're not going to take you the "wrong way," Just don't.

Just a question, 'cause I'm curious: what do you mean when you say that the Bible doesn't actually damn homosexuals? Do you mean because "being gay isn't a sin, but gay acts are?"

Oh! And yeah, definitely email her. Tell her you'd like to talk and really get to know each other better, form a closer relationship and all that good stuff. What can it hurt? Hopefully nothing!

[Serene Mariposa]

Honestly, she probably knows why they're not making as much of an effort as they could otherwise. This happens a lot, sad to say, and as this very scenario--as well as more extremes--is a big fear for people who are homosexual, I doubt it'll be that much of a surprise if, for whatever reason, she needs to be directly told. She knows that they've treated her differently since she came out. Why exactly wouldn't she know? I might be missing something here. . . .

Anyway, if you want to get to know her more than I say tell your parents that you really want to do that, and I think there's a fair enough chance that they'll let you do it . . . maybe. Hopefully. I don't know, because I don't know your parents. It does sound like you're a good enough bit older than your brothers to where your parents will--hopefully--say that you can make your own decisions. You can always use that card. . . .

I wouldn't say your thoughts on gay rights / gay debate. If they estranged their daughter for being lesbian, then they can estrange you, too. They might take it as you "going gay." They might see you as proof that your sister's homosexuality "infected" you, and that they need to get you out as soon as possible before you in turn infect your brothers. So seriously . . . don't. Unless you really think that it'll be a calm conversation and they're not going to take you the "wrong way," Just don't.

Just a question, 'cause I'm curious: what do you mean when you say that the Bible doesn't actually damn homosexuals? Do you mean because "being gay isn't a sin, but gay acts are?"

Oh! And yeah, definitely email her. Tell her you'd like to talk and really get to know each other better, form a closer relationship and all that good stuff. What can it hurt? Hopefully nothing!

You're right that it probably won't be much of a surprise when I tell her about my family, but she hasn't been told why she's being ignored. She's my half-sister and she grew up with her mother's family, rarely getting the chance to see us. Eventually Dad learned that she was gay and he let their relationship drift apart without telling her anything about what he thought about her "sin."

No, I mean the Bible absolutely doesn't says nothing against loving gay relationships, or the acts themselves. The passages Christian use to condemn gays, when you take the time to really read them, refer to sexual sin like rape, temple prostitution, and sex slaves. A committed relationship between two people, any two people, doesn't look like this. To say that two people who love each other are committing a sin just because they're both girls or both boys is ridiculous. In the New Testament it says that every one of God's laws can be summed up in the command to love one another. You wouldn't steal if you loved some one, for example. You wouldn't murder because you loved someone.

It wouldn't make sense to say that gay relationships are hurting anyone if there is mutual respect and love. If there isn't mutual love and respect, then we have problems, but the same goes for straight relationships, too. In the end, it's all about using common sense. Unfortunately most churches and Christian thought don't want to really take a deeper look at what they're preaching. In my opinion it's more blind faith to tradition than anything.

I hope I make sense... ^_^ The topic really is interesting. It's easier to put my thoughts into words instead of actually saying them during eye-contact...haha, so I'm kind of practicing here.

[Starlit Sky]

Well, I definitely do hope that things get better. :) There will probably always be a lot of tension between her and your parents, and possibly your brothers as well, but it would be nice if at least the two of you could actually become closer! ^_^

(TW for homophobia, if anyone happens to need it.)

It's not that I don't agree with what you're saying about how gays should be able to live in peace if they're happy, because I do, but I'm still interested and not really understanding what you mean when you say there's nothing in the Bible that says homosexuality is a sin. The Bible (in Leviticus) says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." True that this doesn't talk about a loving relationship, but it is talking about sexual acts. Plus . . . actually having a loving, romantic relationship was never a priority. There are a few examples in the Bible where a married couple did love each other (Bathsheba's husband loved her, for example), but by and large people married not out of love but out of necessity, practicality, and / or legal advantages. The idea of a man finding a woman and falling in love with her, marrying her, having kids with her--and that being the ideal that everyone should achieve--is only a few centuries old and doesn't extend to the days the books of the Bible were written in. That's not to say that love didn't exist, because of course it did--but loving your husband or wife was never seen as being morally greater. Thus, it makes perfect sense that the verses who do talk about homosexual acts wouldn't talk about love, because love wasn't talked about in heterosexual marriages either. The reason you find that they're among those other horrible things is . . . well, the argument is that homosexuality is just as bad any of the rest of it.

I've heard that there are theories out there that the verses that do mention homosexuality may not be as clear as was previously believed, but I've never actually looked into them . . . so I don't know about them, and if you do then that's awesome, 'cause I'd love to get educated. :)

[Wiseja1987]

It's not that I don't agree with what you're saying about how gays should be able to live in peace if they're happy, because I do, but I'm still interested and not really understanding what you mean when you say there's nothing in the Bible that says homosexuality is a sin. The Bible (in Leviticus) says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." True that this doesn't talk about a loving relationship, but it is talking about sexual acts

Ah, yes. I'm familiar with what Serene is talking about. In that particular passage, the original language around "lie with" is a bit murky, but most scholars of the language say the only other context that particular term is used describes a sexual assault. It's usually missed by laymen, since the modern translation doesn't differentiate between original terms they translated into "lie with". There's a lot of similar issues with KJV and other translations, either by design, or because the translators didn't see a difference between those situations (gross, I know).

In short, even for conservative biblical listeralists (I'm Christian, but not a literalist), this isn't a settled issue.

[Starlit Sky]

It's not that I don't agree with what you're saying about how gays should be able to live in peace if they're happy, because I do, but I'm still interested and not really understanding what you mean when you say there's nothing in the Bible that says homosexuality is a sin. The Bible (in Leviticus) says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." True that this doesn't talk about a loving relationship, but it is talking about sexual acts

Ah, yes. I'm familiar with what Serene is talking about. In that particular passage, the original language around "lie with" is a bit murky, but most scholars of the language say the only other context that particular term is used describes a sexual assault. It's usually missed by laymen, since the modern translation doesn't differentiate between original terms they translated into "lie with". There's a lot of similar issues with KJV and other translations, either by design, or because the translators didn't see a difference between those situations (gross, I know).

In short, even for conservative biblical listeralists (I'm Christian, but not a literalist), this isn't a settled issue.

I think I would rather it be talking about homosexual relationships than some sort of ultimate act of victim blaming, but either way it's--well, not ideal in my world. Nonetheless, thank you for explaining! <3

[Wiseja1987]

I think I would rather it be talking about homosexual relationships than some sort of ultimate act of victim blaming, but either way it's--well, not ideal in my world. Nonetheless, thank you for explaining! <3

Oh, agreed. Mosaic law didn't seem to think sexual assault was a thing. You can see the holdover now with LGBTQIA+ issues, especially with women, since any sexual activity women are involved with often is portrayed as a way of demeaning them. In terms of Serene's sister, I've seen a lot of similar situations where families were more willing to accept men who weren't hetero than women, becasue they had this idea that women didn't have a sexuality of their own, so any assertion of sexual identity was a bad thing from the start.

@Serene, are you still living at home? If you are, I'd wait to confront your family about this until you aren't. Having a place to go to to cool off in case the conversation goes badly can do a lot of good.

[Serene Mariposa]

It's not that I don't agree with what you're saying about how gays should be able to live in peace if they're happy, because I do, but I'm still interested and not really understanding what you mean when you say there's nothing in the Bible that says homosexuality is a sin. The Bible (in Leviticus) says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them." True that this doesn't talk about a loving relationship, but it is talking about sexual acts

Ah, yes. I'm familiar with what Serene is talking about. In that particular passage, the original language around "lie with" is a bit murky, but most scholars of the language say the only other context that particular term is used describes a sexual assault. It's usually missed by laymen, since the modern translation doesn't differentiate between original terms they translated into "lie with". There's a lot of similar issues with KJV and other translations, either by design, or because the translators didn't see a difference between those situations (gross, I know).

In short, even for conservative biblical listeralists (I'm Christian, but not a literalist), this isn't a settled issue.

You stole the words out of my mouth, haha. Well said. Similar issues happen with the other passages about homosexuality which means that the topic isn't as simple as was assumed.

I was thinking the same thing, too. Obviously there are people who wouldn't do it on purpose, but, as awful as it is to think about it, it can't be ignored as a possibility that some have.

I think I would rather it be talking about homosexual relationships than some sort of ultimate act of victim blaming, but either way it's--well, not ideal in my world. Nonetheless, thank you for explaining! <3

Oh, agreed. Mosaic law didn't seem to think sexual assault was a thing. You can see the holdover now with LGBTQIA+ issues, especially with women, since any sexual activity women are involved with often is portrayed as a way of demeaning them. In terms of Serene's sister, I've seen a lot of similar situations where families were more willing to accept men who weren't hetero than women, becasue they had this idea that women didn't have a sexuality of their own, so any assertion of sexual identity was a bad thing from the start.

@Serene, are you still living at home? If you are, I'd wait to confront your family about this until you aren't. Having a place to go to to cool off in case the conversation goes badly can do a lot of good.

Yeah, I'm still living at home...

[Starlit Sky]

I think I would rather it be talking about homosexual relationships than some sort of ultimate act of victim blaming, but either way it's--well, not ideal in my world. Nonetheless, thank you for explaining! <3

Oh, agreed. Mosaic law didn't seem to think sexual assault was a thing. You can see the holdover now with LGBTQIA+ issues, especially with women, since any sexual activity women are involved with often is portrayed as a way of demeaning them. In terms of Serene's sister, I've seen a lot of similar situations where families were more willing to accept men who weren't hetero than women, becasue they had this idea that women didn't have a sexuality of their own, so any assertion of sexual identity was a bad thing from the start.

^

Boyfriend: So if you could make out with any celebrity, who would it be?

Girlfriend: I was actually thinking of a woman.

Boyfriend: Oh, that's not the same thing.

You're definitely right about that. I once argued with a guy who was totally convinced that the Bible didn't say anything about a homosexual relationship between two women (though for him it was largely because he found that to be a really, really arousing fantasy . . . among other things). Of course that's not true and of course it's . . . well, you already know haha

@Serene, are you still living at home? If you are, i'd wait to confront your family about this until you aren't. Having a place to go to cool off in case the conversation goes badly can do a lot of good.

Yeah, I'm still living at home...

I definitely support the idea that you should wait until you don't live with your parents to talk about your feelings on everything. Not only would it be nice if you had a place to go to chill out at, but it's also way too easy for me to picture your folks trying to kick you out. Too easy to say that your thoughts on it means you're gay, and doubly so since you're asexual (all of us asexuals are really just deep in the closet, after all).