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Partner (sexual) tells me regularly how different he wants me to be.


Briebyrdfreebyrd

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OO's exaggerating a bit on both sides to make a point, I hope. I assume he's exaggerating the idea of expecting sex in a relationship in the sense we expect the sun comes up every morning.

I do agree about

anyone whose response to their sexual partners' distress over suddenly not having the sexual relationship they signed up for is "Too Bad, so sad. I won't have sex anymore. Leave if you don't like it. Period Full Stop." without even trying to talk about it or acknowledge the gravity of what they are asking is acting in a callous fashion

though.

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No need to thank me. :) Love is a journey, and on some journeys, we lose those we're journeying with. It hurts, I know. I've been on both sides of that loss.

In the long run, this is good for the both of you. I promise you that.

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OutsideObserver

Sexuals feel they are owed sex.

Holy shit, what.

In the context of people in relationships not understanding or relating to their partners. If you can read the whole thing to snip out that part in a quote you can read the whole thing for content.

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Sexuals feel they are owed sex. Asexuals feel that sexuals should gleefully reprioritize their needs at the drop of a hat to accommodate the asexual's preferences.

BS.

Not all sexuals feel they're owed sex. What asexuals feel is that they don't have to have sex if they don't want it. Because no one is owed sex.

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Sexuals feel they are owed sex. Asexuals feel that sexuals should gleefully reprioritize their needs at the drop of a hat to accommodate the asexual's preferences.

Oh my. You're really painting a hopelessly dreary picture of your own group there.

If that were the case, then sexuals are 100% in the wrong, and 100% solely at fault for the entirety of problems in mixed relationships - there would not be a problem without their childish entitlement issues, which victimizes the innocent asexuals who are basically saints for putting up with their antics even for one day. If sexuals were less douchey and not driven by the mentality of three-year-olds with boners, the relationship would work like a charm... so I guess sexuals really do just need to grow up and get over it and learn to become decent people.

Thankfully, #NotAllSexuals very much does apply. (Anyone who'd try to paint the sexual gal I was in a happy relationship with for over six years with that brush had better brace for impact to cope with my reaction to them insulting her like that.) If it didn't apply, then hell yes - sexuals, as a whole, would simply be far too immature to be in grown-up relationships, and can learn a lot from their betters... which includes the betters they are in a relationship with: Aces are, indeed, better than that, and deserve better than that, too. :rolleyes:

And, without the sarcasm: If the ace doesn't want sex, then yes, they can absolutely expect that the sexual "reprioritize their needs" according to that, unconditionally. Anything else completely undermines the entire idea of sexual consent. If and when one partner says no, then that's no, end of story. Grown-ups learn to cope.

You are not owed sex. Ever. Unless and until you truly learn and accept that, stay celibate - celibacy is your ethical duty to humanity. [/sincerity mode]

In the context of people in relationships not understanding or relating to their partners. If you can read the whole thing to snip out that part in a quote you can read the whole thing for content.

Still 100% the fault of the sexual. The context does not change that in the least.

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"Grown-ups learn to cope."

Can't asexuals learn to cope with having sex then?

Not their job. It's the job of sexuals to overcome their immaturity, because that is the only actual problem. Aces are already doing fine, and not doing anything wrong.

Since the problem is caused by sexuals, they can be expected to solve it by starting to act like grown-ups.

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Ironically, if it really were true that sexuals expect sex like the sun to rise, then many sexuals who are unsure about whether they really want sex (I'm thinking of trans people here), or whether they would want sex as much as their partner, would have to avoid dating like the plague. And maybe that's actually how it is.

PS: Cue Telecaster stating something along the lines of "people expect women to have vaginas like they expect the sun to rise". xD

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"It's the job of sexuals to overcome their immaturity, because that is the only actual problem."

Wanting sex is immature? Check your elitism, Mysti.

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Come off it, Tele, and stuff away your strawman. There is no elitism I'd have to check, because nobody is talking about wanting sex. Stop trying to distort it into that, because I won't tolerate this dishonesty in the discussion.

What absolutely is immature is not knowing one's place, and specifically, not humbly accepting that you never, ever have a right to expect sex, period. It's always a privilege, never a right. Calling that view immature is the nicest way to put it - I have already explained to you before that this is a rapist's mindset, and I fully stand by that. Only by raping people can you ever have the "control" you want.

And if that's not a lesson you already have internalized - then, yes, you do have some serious growing up to do, kid. Maybe with professional help, if you can't do it alone.

Accept that already and stop trying to project the problem onto others. I'm not here to provide a scapegoat for your shortcomings, and I don't think any asexual should stand for it, either. You folks need to learn your place, stat.

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Hello, Briebyrdfreebyrd.
Most people have painful areas of their behavior, looks and such that, when attacked by others, make us feel confused: “Maybe I’m really in the wrong here?”, “Do I have the right to stand up for myself?” and so on.
You’ve already got the advise to evaluate this whole situation as if it were told to you by a friend – to get another point of view. I use a similar, but slightly different coping strategy. I find that it helps me personally to mentally shift the focus of that person’s complaints to a less painful subject.
If instead of your sexuality, your partner would constantly criticise your cooking? Or your personal hygiene? How would you react? It’s not just about your current partner - separating the person’s criticism from your sensitive issues might help to get a more clear view of what they’re saying and how they say it. That way you can decide, whether you want to tolerate the way another person treats you, or they’re being really offensive and you're ready to stand up for yourself.

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It is not the job of sexuals to accommodate the preferences of asexuals, because it is most definitely not the job of sexuals to enter into relationships with asexuals, and most of the sexuals who have done so have not done so knowingly. Look around AVEN and right now you can find threads where asexuals are telling other asexuals who are already out that it's okay to actively look for sexuals to date while concealing their sexual orientation until the sexual is ready to make a serious commitment. You can find so many threads where it's assumed that once the asexual finally comes out the onus of ending the relationship falls mainly on the sexual. The asexual is the party more responsible for the existence of the mixed relationship. The sexual had absolutely no chance of knowing their partner was asexual. The asexual partner had the opportunity to search their own mind and heart a bit more thoroughly, thus possibly coming out earlier. So why shouldn't the asexual behave responsibly and end the relationship as soon as they realize the truth? The thing is, heterosexuals have a vast dating pool. Gay people mostly realize that they can't just help them self to this dating pool, despite it's size and seeming convenience, since they just aren't compatible with heterosexuals. Explain one more time why this doesn't apply to asexuals? Heterosexuals have truly awesome odds of finding each other if those of incompatible orientations are not actively trying to catch them or hold on to them.

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@gretchen...

I actually agree with a lot of that. I also very firmly take the stand that if someone knows they're ace, then it's their ethical duty to come out about it on the first date (or, if dating complete strangers - which is a concept simply alien to me - no later than the third date at the absolute latest). Keeping one's asexuality hidden from a (prospective) partner is leading them on - no ifs no buts; it's unethical, and the problems resulting from such lack of honesty down the line are the responsibility of the manipulative ace, not the one of the deceived sexual.

However, the onus of breaking up logically lies with the person who is unhappy/unhappier. Always. If the relationship is set up in such a way that the ace partner is reasonably happy with it, but the sexual partner isn't, then of course it's the job of the sexual to break up. There's an unpleasant taste of condescension in breaking up "for the sake of the other". You can, and should, remind them that they're free to leave at any time - but if the 'ship still works for you, there is no reason whatsoever to be more proactive than that. If the sexual is the one being unhappy, then it's the sexual's job to do something about it, not the one of the ace partner.

If the ace partner is fed up with the sexual's nagging and blame-tossing... then, obviously, the sitch is quite different. Obviously the ace should then just get their ass up, become proactive, and leave the realtionship already. Complaining helps noone,

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If the relationship has been set up by the asexual in such a way that the sexual is unhappy, the asexual should break up. The asexual should not do it solely for the sake of the other, although the other is a real person and it does matter how they are treated. The asexual should take responsibility primarily for the sake of their own integrity.

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If the relationship has been set up by the asexual in such a way that the sexual is unhappy, the asexual should break up. The asexual should not do it solely for the sake of the other, although the other is a real person and it does matter how they are treated. The asexual should take responsibility primarily for the sake of their own integrity.

Nah, I'd disagree. it all really depends on how you mean "set up", though. If that set-up includes not having been honest about it from the start, then the asexual should set it straight, by laying the facts and foundations out on the table, in the open.

I still stand by saying it that it's the responsibility of the unhappy sexual to then decide what to do with this information - making the choice to break up for them still won't sit right with me; you shouldn't rob them of their agency in the decision like that.

Of course, if they then choose to stay, they should be aware that they have chosen to forfeit the right to complain about the lack of sex that results from that decision.

Basically, my stance is that both sides should:

a) be honest,

b) make informed decisions,

c) own these decisions and their results, and

d) fully accept and respect the other partner's autonomy.

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The thing is, heterosexuals have a vast dating pool.

That's not even remotely true. There are other things that can be just as much of a dealbreaker, if not more so, than a mismatched sexual orientation. I would rather date an asexual who I can have intellectual discussions with, than a sexual with whom that's not possible, for instance.

The only thing that heterosexuals have a "vast pool" of, is people to have sex with.

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Presumably the ability to have intellectual discussions and sexual orientation are completely independent of each other. For every asexual capable of having intellectual discussions there are 99 similarly capable sexuals. If a heterosexual is picky, they start from at least 90% of the general population and narrow their search from there. If an asexual is equally picky, they start from 1% of the general population and narrow the search from there. The heterosexual dating pool will always be vast relative to the asexual dating pool.

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The intellectual discussion thing was only one example.

Of the last three women I took a serious interest in, one is asexual, one I have a suspicion she's homosexual, and one is transgender.

If my "vast dating pool" narrows down to a bunch of people who are so unusual in some regard that they're not really part of that "pool", then I can suspect my dating pool isn't all that large after all.

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I think you are selectively dating those who don't have access to a large dating pool in order to avoid competition. Regardless, you are giving informed consent to these relationships from the beginning, which is a very different situation from learning the truth after the relationship is well underway.

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Briebyrdfreebyrd

Can I just say.. mysitcus thank you. I needed those words. As me as people don't agree with them, idk. I needed it.

Gretchen, I really want to make this 100% clear. I didn't come to terms with being ace until the end of our relationship. I wasn't being dishonest and wrong because I couldn't find my true self until then. From there I put it on my (former) partner to decide on whether or not staying was something he could do. Ultimately, he couldn't. And I couldn't handle the mean things anyways.

Also Lara! That was an awesome way of putting it, can I just say I really didn't think of it that way until your comment and I love that, thank you so so so much.

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If the relationship has been set up by the asexual in such a way that the sexual is unhappy, the asexual should break up. The asexual should not do it solely for the sake of the other, although the other is a real person and it does matter how they are treated. The asexual should take responsibility primarily for the sake of their own integrity.

Nah, I'd disagree. it all really depends on how you mean "set up", though. If that set-up includes not having been honest about it from the start, then the asexual should set it straight, by laying the facts and foundations out on the table, in the open.

I still stand by saying it that it's the responsibility of the unhappy sexual to then decide what to do with this information - making the choice to break up for them still won't sit right with me; you shouldn't rob them of their agency in the decision like that.

Of course, if they then choose to stay, they should be aware that they have chosen to forfeit the right to complain about the lack of sex that results from that decision.

Basically, my stance is that both sides should:

a) be honest,

b) make informed decisions,

c) own these decisions and their results, and

d) fully accept and respect the other partner's autonomy.

Yes. Yes yes yes.

We should not make decisions for other people. We should not break up relationships for the sake of someone else. We should not expect our partners to take care of our feelings better than we take care of our own. If we expect our partners to recognize our misery and break up with us for our sakes, we're creating a myriad of fucked up dynamics.

The ONLY way relationships can be functional is if each party is honest, and each party takes action based solely on their own needs.

There's a reason why it's considered cowardly and manipulative to try to get the other person to break up with you by whining... because it is cowardly and manipulative.

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No, I'm not. I'm saying that the people who think asexuals should just "know" when to break up with their sad sexual partners are encouraging the sad, sexual partners to be cowardly and manipulative.

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I wonder if OP's boyfriend's behaviour might be his way of grieving... I mean it surely is a big blow to a sexual to be told "nope, not gonna happen anymore." Could it be that he still has to navigate through the situation? (Not trying to justify anything, just a shot at an explanation). OP knows their bf best so they should know whether this is a temporary thing.

Of course, telling someone "I'd rather like you to be like this" / "I'd like you to change that" won't get anyone anywhere. If one decides that one wants to be with a different person, one has to look for a different person to be with.

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Skullery maid sorry, I have a reading disability, it can be very jumbled

No no, no worries, just that my posts are often taken to be mean and pointed when they weren't so intended, and I try to keep track so I can at least try to adjust how I communicate.

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There's no complicated method for figuring out when the asexual partner should break things off if the sexual partner did not enter the relationship with full knowledge. The asexual partner should break up in the same conversation where they come out. This involves absolutely no cowardice or manipulation on either side. The sexual partner probably will grieve and probably will be angry, sure. But they will be free to take as much time as they need to get over it and say whatever they need to say out of the hearing of their ex.

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yes, but surely there should be a discussion as to whether the opposite party wants to continue with a relationship or not. Whilst I recognise, it is very very rare, there are some people who would still continue with the relationship because the pros (other aspects of the relationship) far outweigh the con (i wont be having sex in this relationship) as some sexuals are perfectly happy with celibacy for other reasons. I realise it is very very rare, but if say I was dating an asexual who suddenly found they were greysexual, I wouldnt want them to break up with me straightaway, I would want them to tell me and work out together what it may mean for our relationship, (what they may be able to compromise on and what the dealbreakers were) so that I could make an informed decision as to whether I can compromise with their needs or if I cant deal with it so we break up.

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