am I still ace? I enjoy sexual contact with my partner.

[Stained Glass]

overall, I don’t find men sexually i attractive. I don’t find women sexually attractive. Yet i enjoy sexual acts with my partner. Am I still ace?

I have never doubted this before, but my parter began telling me lots of the things I say while intimate suggest I'm sexually attracted to him. (But that's really the only case. In the moment things.)

He is feeling very insecure because he just realized the fact that I don't feel sexually attracted to him. He knows It's part of my sexuality, but he still internalizes it. Here I am unable to comfort him in the way he needs. Then he starts making these comments saying that what I feel is sexual attraction

Now it's messing with my head. I doubt myself easily. just coming from my partner it's getting to me

-Elliot

[Phantasmal Fingers]

No, you're not ace. Just as, for example, if I started falling in love with people I wouldn't be aromantic any more.

You're probably demisexual which some people see as being on the asexual spectrum.

You're ace. You're not ace. Take your pick!

Anyway most people here are total fruitcakes - if I were you I wouldn't worry about it!

[Galactic Turtle]

Pretty much what Dweeble said. Being sexual isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's the norm. I hope you and your partner can be happy. ^_^

This part of yourself might be new and a bit scary so hopefully he's understanding. Don't do anything you're not comfortable with!

[Member54880]

If you don't desire sex with anyone, it's possible that you could still be. Another way to describe asexuality is that it's about intrinsically lacking the desire for sex with others as an end in itself, as opposed to agreeing to it out of a desire to please a partner, for example.

it must be frustrating being doubted by your partner. Do you think your partner may be saying those things because he may think enjoying the act must mean being sexually attracted, and desiring sex with him?

[Homer]

Simple question to think about: Would you mind never having sex again? (With him or anyone else)

[MoraDollie]

Could be cupiosexual :) (someone who doesn't have sexual attraction but wants to have sexual relationship and/or enjoys sexual activity *but doesn't actively seek it out*)

[Star Bit]

So you have no urge to have sex with him specifically, but do you have an urge to have sex (for sexual or emotional pleasure) once foreplay is done? If so then that's a normal sexual person with responsive sexual desire consisting of most women. If you desire sex after a bond that takes an unusual amount of time to form then that's demisexual. And half of sexual people (a majority of women and a minority of men) don't even feel sexual attraction and desire sex for other reasons. It's the fact that people colloquially use the phrase sexual attraction toward everything that it's been misconstrued to be experienced by everyone; that's why he doesn't view it as normal and takes it like he did something wrong. It's like males not knowing that most females have responsive sexual desire and then taking it as themselves doing something wrong because their female doesn't have spontaneous desire like they do; they don't know it's normal so they take it personally.

His comments may be because he's in denial/desires your reciprocation so much that he's fooling himself into seeing it. As others have said, some people also can't separate enjoyment from desire, and since he sees you enjoy it he can't comprehend that you don't also desire it. However, enjoyment and desire are two different things. Everyone has had a food that was ok but just wasn't their thing; this is enjoyment without desire. If this is the case then you may need to completely stop sexually compromising (for a few months at least) so this can fully sink in; otherwise it's just gunna be a problem again at a later point and it's best to reach a breaking point earlier rather than later where more is invested.

Simple question to think about: Would you mind never having sex again? (With him or anyone else)

That doesn't nececerily make an asexual; there are sex indifferent sexuals. The real factor is if they desire sex for sexual or emotional pleasure.

[MissUnderstood]

Asexuals are capable of enjoying sex/sexual things. There is nothing to stop our bodies from enjoying it. Sexual attraction is different and I suppose hard to explain. There are asexuals who have sex with their partner to please their partner and can enjoy it, it's just not something they desire.

I've never had sex but I get bored with anything remotely physical in that, I love the feel of kissing, but I don't care if I get them and if it goes on too long I start thinking about food or tv and stuff.

Sexuals can find it very hard not to feel like there is something wrong with them since you are not sexually attracted to them, but that's not fair. They shouldn't try to tell you what your sexuality is or how you feel, because that is your decision. Wanting to have sex with them to make them happy doesn't even make you sexual. I get really mad at people trying to tell me I'm sexual because I've kissed them or something.

Sorry, long story short, don't let someone bully you into changing your sexuality based on their observations of you

[Guest]

It depends on if you desire partnered sex, not if you enjoy partnered sex.

If the guy you're with would tell you today that the two of you won't have sex again, ever... and you can't have sex with anyone else while you're together, either... would that in any way feel like a loss or restriction to you, in regards to your relationship? If the answer is yes, then you're probably not ace, because that sounds like you do desire it (demi would sound a far likelier possibility).

[Starlit Sky]

I'm so surprised that it took until MissUnderstood's response for someone to mention that asexuality isn't about enjoyment, it's about desire and attraction. . . .

But I don't want to talk about that, since other people are already doing so. I actually want to talk about your partner. . . . Is he gaslighting you? Gaslighting is the attempt of one person to overwrite another person's reality (more information in that link). Even if he's not really trying to do it hard-core or anything, the information in there, at least at the bottom, would probably be beneficial to you.

You sound asexual to me, and to me it sounds like he's insecure and doesn't like the idea that you don't find him attractive in that way, and so he's trying to push what he wants you to be like onto who you really are. That's his problem, not yours.

[Guest]

You sound sexual to me, and I think it's pretty obnoxious that people on this thread are trying to suggest your boyfriend is abusive just because he's acknowledging that you are demonstrating typical sexual behavior.

As Star Bit said, please please please read up on "responsive sexual desire".

The one and only question to ask is: once sexual activity has begun, do you enjoy it and want it to continue, or do you want it to stop? If you want it to continue, you're sexual. If you want it to stop, you're asexual. (obviously, only if you want it to stop every time... virtually no sexuals are ready for sex all the time, in all situations... not wanting it to continue sometimes is absolutely normal sexual desire)

[Philip027]

Asexuality isn't about the capacity to enjoy sex... to me it's more about whether you internally feel compelled to pursue it for enjoyment's sake (without anyone else necessarily pushing you toward doing so)

You sound sexual to me, and I think it's pretty obnoxious that people on this thread are trying to suggest your boyfriend is abusive just because he's acknowledging that you are demonstrating typical sexual behavior.

I don't think anyone in this thread even mentioned abuse until you.

Nevertheless, yes, it does sound like the guy is pushing his insecurity onto the OP.

[Guest]

Asexuality isn't about the capacity to enjoy sex... to me it's more about whether you internally feel compelled to pursue it for enjoyment's sake (without anyone else necessarily pushing you toward doing so)

You sound sexual to me, and I think it's pretty obnoxious that people on this thread are trying to suggest your boyfriend is abusive just because he's acknowledging that you are demonstrating typical sexual behavior.

I don't think anyone in this thread even mentioned abuse until you.

Nevertheless, yes, it does sound like the guy is pushing his insecurity onto the OP.

Read the post directly above mine. Gaslighting is a form of abuse.

It really doesn't sound like he's trying to do anything remotely as nefarious as you and Starlit are suggesting. Gaslighting is the intentional rearrangement of people's physical lives and the creation of responses to make a person think they're going crazy. This guy ain't doing that. He just says "once we start having sex, you're really into it, and that's pretty normal." Which is true! Which is why I asked the question... if, once you start having sex, you independently want it to continue, that's responsive sexual desire, of which 60% of women and 30% of men have. So, no, he's not being abusive, he's not re-arranging the OP's physical circumstances and creating false responses in order to make the OP think they're crazy. He's just questioning whether the OP has responsive sexual desire.

[Starlit Sky]

Gaslighting can be used as an abuse tactic, not that it always is. The article's title more or less says that itself . . . plus, the very first point states that "gaslighting does not require deliberate plotting. Gaslighting only requires a belief that it is acceptable to overwrite another person's reality" (in other words, that person doesn't have to be abusive in order to do that). I'm not at all trying to say that their boyfriend is mean or that he's doing anything on purpose, but I am saying that the suggestions the author places towards the bottom, in Step 8, might help them in conversations with said boyfriend.

And yeah . . . to me it does sound like he's gaslighting OP. The bit about them questioning themselves reinforces that, to me. But I'm not trying to say that the boyfriend is abusive.

I will say, though, that I'm not that well-informed about gaslighting, so I might be using the term wrong, and in which case, I'm sorry. :)

The one and only question to ask is: once sexual activity has begun, do you enjoy it and want it to continue, or do you want it to stop? If you want it to continue, you're sexual. If you want it to stop, you're asexual.

I hate to be weird or nitpicky so hopefully I'm not coming off that way . . . but is that really the best way to word things? (TMI) I mean, when you feel an orgasm coming along most people, sexual or asexual, want it to come. They don't want it to stop. I can't say I've ever wanted it to stop. And of course I know that there are other cases! But I don't know if I think that that's the best way to . . . well, like I said, word it.

[Guest]

I don't mean the second before orgasm. I mean while sex is starting. Do you want to continue? Do you desire to keep going? If yes, that's responsive sexual desire.

He's not gaslighting. You're faaaaar too lenient with that phrase and I don't think you know what it means.

[Starlit Sky]

Word it however you want.

He's not gaslighting. You're faaaaar too lenient with that phrase and I don't think you know what it means.

Like I said, I don't know much about it and if you say that I'm too lenient with it I know there's a good chance that you're right. But I feel like I've offended you and for that, I am sorry.

[Guest]

Look, here's the thing. It's hard being a sexual on AVEN and seeing responses like yours that make it seem like every sexual who questions asexuality, or struggles to understand, or has a different perspective is being abusive or otherwise engaged in manipulative behavior. Obviously this could be flipped around and sexuals could call every asexual a gaslighter because many of you guys say things like "I don't see why sex and love have to be connected, sexuals don't get it"... but that's not gaslighting. That's having different perspectives.

If you say "I hate tomatoes" and I say "pfffttt, you like ketchup!", I'm not gaslighting you. If you continue to say "I really hate tomatoes!" and I continue to say "it sure doesn't seem like it", I'm still not gaslighting you.

Gaslighting would be this... if I gave you a plate of food at a dinner party that was different from everyone else's, which had tomatoes, and you ate it and praised the cook, and then I said "hahaha I told you that you love tomatoes!"... everyone else at the party was eating tomatoes and had no idea you weren't, so they all join in and say "no for real, there's tomatoes all over this plate"... and I keep doing that over and over again until you start to think you're absolutely batshit nuts.

THAT'S gaslighting.

[Philip027]

He is feeling very insecure because he just realized the fact that I don't feel sexually attracted to him. He knows It's part of my sexuality, but he still internalizes it. Here I am unable to comfort him in the way he needs. Then he starts making these comments saying that what I feel is sexual attraction

Now it's messing with my head. I doubt myself easily. just coming from my partner it's getting to me

Maybe this isn't hardcore gaslighting to the point of total "I don't know anything anymore" psychological breakdowns, but I can certainly see it falling under the umbrella (an umbrella that is far more realistic, for that matter... rather than something you're only likely to see depicted in suspense/horror flicks)

What is it, exactly, if it isn't trying to incorrectly dictate someone else's reality for them to the point where they are doubting themselves?

Look, here's the thing. It's hard being a sexual on AVEN and seeing responses like yours that make it seem like every sexual who questions asexuality, or struggles to understand, or has a different perspective is being abusive or otherwise engaged in manipulative behavior.

Questioning asexuality is fine. Trying to insist that someone else really is feeling things they've already admitted to not be feeling (particularly when it's something that would fit your own agenda) is where problems are going to arise, because that indicates denial/nonacceptance on your part. You can't really speak for someone else's feelings like that. Once you've demonstrated to someone that you don't accept them, why should they accept you?

There's better ways to question, or attempt to understand, or express other perspectives than this.

[Guest]

He is feeling very insecure because he just realized the fact that I don't feel sexually attracted to him. He knows It's part of my sexuality, but he still internalizes it. Here I am unable to comfort him in the way he needs. Then he starts making these comments saying that what I feel is sexual attraction

Now it's messing with my head. I doubt myself easily. just coming from my partner it's getting to me

Maybe this isn't hardcore gaslighting to the point of total "I don't know anything anymore" psychological breakdowns, but I can certainly see it falling under the umbrella (an umbrella that is far more realistic, for that matter... rather than something you're only likely to see depicted in suspense/horror flicks)

What is it, exactly, if it isn't trying to incorrectly dictate someone else's reality for them to the point where they are doubting themselves?

It's not necessarily gaslighting at all! Just because the OP is questioning themselves doesn't mean the guy did anything wrong. If I tell a religious person that god doesn't exist, that's going to mess with their head too, but it doesn't mean I'm gaslighting.

EDIT: I just noticed this and it's hilarious... you do know where the word "gaslighting" comes from, right???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_%281944_film%29

[binary suns]

The opening poster hints at a possibility of their behaving sexually, but to me it sounds like this observation has a possibility to be biased by her and her boyfriend's interest in making things work out. as such, I think it's rude to say with certainty either way - there is clearly not enough information to make such claims.

for a person who believes they haven't experienced sexual attraction but secretly does, their noticing what sexual attraction is would be very difficult. such a person couldn't suddenly say "oh I am experiencing sexual attraction" unless they were already noticing the information their body gives them and dismissing it as something else. they would have to patiently try to notice it and what it feels like, or notice signs that let them assume it's happening.

@ thread question: the long story short is, if you enjoy sex. it is a sign that maybe you need to re-investigate your feelings. it is like if you are driving down the road trying to notice possible things that will cross your path. the house won't move. the human sitting on a bench probably won't cross. the dog chasing a bird is a risk to cross, but also could stay off road. the jogger jogging towards the street is probably going to be in your way.

and if you enjoy sex, and that's all you really know right now. it is like as if the person on the bench finished his newspaper and stood up. suddenly you need to look at this new activity, and figure out what he is about to do.

I am not sure what to recommend about determining enjoyment without attraction or desire, from enjoyment with it. but I do recommend, making an effort to remember the feelings of enjoyment, and wondering what causes it and if you notice that you feel it at strange times consistently that aren't sexual scenarios.

for me, I know that I feel sexual attraction because I feel a few slight signs of arousal when specific people do something, but don't feel it when most other people do the same thing. this "something" for me could be close proximity, expression of interest in me, or my thinking about spending time with them. for me personally, I say that I am not demi because this happens really early on in getting to know them, within a few days to a few weeks. and I say that I am grey, because despite feel attraction on rare occasion, and that sex can feel good, sex itself is both undesirable for me and boring. I only ever feel a need for "foreplay" and if it moves past it, I wish to take steps back.

[Philip027]

Just because the OP is questioning themselves doesn't mean the guy did anything wrong.

See, I don't know if it's just because of where I come from or the way I was brought up or what, but... I thought it would have been normal for a partner to accept the aspects of you that don't necessarily fully jive with them (especially when you have already come out before and stated that this is how you are), rather than attempt to pick away at those aspects and meld them to your tastes solely because it would suit them better.

[Guest]

He is feeling very insecure because he just realized the fact that I don't feel sexually attracted to him. He knows It's part of my sexuality, but he still internalizes it. Here I am unable to comfort him in the way he needs. Then he starts making these comments saying that what I feel is sexual attraction

Now it's messing with my head. I doubt myself easily. just coming from my partner it's getting to me

Maybe this isn't hardcore gaslighting to the point of total "I don't know anything anymore" psychological breakdowns, but I can certainly see it falling under the umbrella (an umbrella that is far more realistic, for that matter... rather than something you're only likely to see depicted in suspense/horror flicks)

What is it, exactly, if it isn't trying to incorrectly dictate someone else's reality for them to the point where they are doubting themselves?

Look, here's the thing. It's hard being a sexual on AVEN and seeing responses like yours that make it seem like every sexual who questions asexuality, or struggles to understand, or has a different perspective is being abusive or otherwise engaged in manipulative behavior.

Questioning asexuality is fine. Trying to insist that someone else really is feeling things they've already admitted to not be feeling (particularly when it's something that would fit your own agenda) is where problems are going to arise, because that indicates denial/nonacceptance on your part. You can't really speak for someone else's feelings like that. Once you've demonstrated to someone that you don't accept them, why should they accept you?

There's better ways to question, or attempt to understand, or express other perspectives than this.

The OP is justifiably questioning themselves. The OP should be questioning themselves. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not gaslighting for someone you're very close with to get you to question things about yourself.

[Guest]

Just because the OP is questioning themselves doesn't mean the guy did anything wrong.

See, I don't know if it's just because of where I come from or the way I was brought up or what, but... I thought it would have been normal for a partner to accept the aspects of you that don't necessarily fully jive with them (especially when you have already come out before and stated that this is how you are), rather than attempt to pick away at those aspects and meld them to your tastes solely because it would suit them better.

You're only considering examples that are pre-selected to fit your biases. I can think of literally endless examples of two partners engaging each other in ways that help each other grow and learn. You're only (and intentionally) thinking of negative examples, as though the fact that negative examples exist makes it impossible for non-negative examples to also exist.

If your partner doesn't sometimes make you question yourself, IMO at least one of you is doing something very wrong.

[Sally]

Gaslighting can be used as an abuse tactic, not that it always is. The article's title more or less says that itself . . . plus, the very first point states that "gaslighting does not require deliberate plotting. Gaslighting only requires a belief that it is acceptable to overwrite another person's reality" (in other words, that person doesn't have to be abusive in order to do that).

By definition, gaslighting IS abusive and always deliberate.

[Philip027]

You're only considering examples that are pre-selected to fit your biases. I can think of literally endless examples of two partners engaging each other in ways that help each other grow and learn. You're only (and intentionally) thinking of negative examples, as though the fact that negative examples exist makes it impossible for non-negative examples to also exist.

I'm not thinking of any examples other than the one presented by this thread... y'know, because that's the one example that matters.

But since you bring it up, I cannot imagine a single relationship scenario where person A is saying "this is how I feel" and person B is saying "no, you're wrong" and we're supposed to be thinking this is actually indicative of a healthy relationship.

If your partner doesn't sometimes make you question yourself, IMO at least one of you is doing something very wrong.

Why is that? That seems like a pretty arbitrary sort of condition to put on some sort of healthy relationship checklist.

My current relationship has gotten me to question some aspects of myself. Never once, however, has my partner tried to dictate any of those things for me. There is a huge, huge difference here.

[Guest]

You're making an awful lot of assumptions that the OP never actually said, just FYI. The example given by the OP is incredibly sparse of details, which I see you've filled in for yourself, but your made up details aren't necessarily (and most likely aren't) at all accurate.

EDIT: By the by, the OP seems stuck on this whole "I don't feel sexual attraction and that's the definition of asexuality" thing... perhaps the OP is learning that there's a lot more to sexuality than some made up concept that no one can define.

[Philip027]

You're making an awful lot of assumptions that the OP never actually said, just FYI.

I'd like to know what those are, because to me it seemed like you're actually ignoring some things that the OP clearly said.

Incidentally, that is not far off from the OP's current predicament with their partner.

[m4rble]

Look, here's the thing. It's hard being a sexual on AVEN and seeing responses like yours that make it seem like every sexual who questions asexuality, or struggles to understand, or has a different perspective is being abusive or otherwise engaged in manipulative behavior. Obviously this could be flipped around and sexuals could call every asexual a gaslighter because many of you guys say things like "I don't see why sex and love have to be connected, sexuals don't get it"... but that's not gaslighting. That's having different perspectives.

If you say "I hate tomatoes" and I say "pfffttt, you like ketchup!", I'm not gaslighting you. If you continue to say "I really hate tomatoes!" and I continue to say "it sure doesn't seem like it", I'm still not gaslighting you.

Gaslighting would be this... if I gave you a plate of food at a dinner party that was different from everyone else's, which had tomatoes, and you ate it and praised the cook, and then I said "hahaha I told you that you love tomatoes!"... everyone else at the party was eating tomatoes and had no idea you weren't, so they all join in and say "no for real, there's tomatoes all over this plate"... and I keep doing that over and over again until you start to think you're absolutely batshit nuts.

THAT'S gaslighting.

Sure, but ketchup tastes nothing like tomatoes imo. My dad likes pickles but dislikes cucumbers. (I know that's not your point but it seemed like a strange analogy)

[Starlit Sky]

Look, here's the thing. It's hard being a sexual on AVEN and seeing responses like yours that make it seem like every sexual who questions asexuality, or struggles to understand, or has a different perspective is being abusive or otherwise engaged in manipulative behavior. Obviously this could be flipped around and sexuals could call every asexual a gaslighter because many of you guys say things like "I don't see why sex and love have to be connected, sexuals don't get it"... but that's not gaslighting. That's having different perspectives.

I figure it is difficult being sexual in a place where most people don't "get" sex, and not only do a large number of people here not "get" sex, but they also tend to be on the offensive if anyone questions it. I'm including myself in that, because as much as I try to be patient and understanding I am far from perfect and I frequently make mistakes. It is also an awful feeling, to be accused--directly or indirectly--of ulterior motives, or if a group of people that you relate to are done in the same way. Which does happen here, as you pointed out. I wasn't intending to suggest that he is abusive and/or manipulative, but that's what I ultimately did, anyway. So I'm very sorry for that.

He is feeling very insecure because he just realized the fact that I don't feel sexually attracted to him. He knows It's part of my sexuality, but he still internalizes it. Here I am unable to comfort him in the way he needs. Then he starts making these comments saying that what I feel is sexual attraction

Now it's messing with my head. I doubt myself easily. just coming from my partner it's getting to me

Maybe this isn't hardcore gaslighting to the point of total "I don't know anything anymore" psychological breakdowns, but I can certainly see it falling under the umbrella (an umbrella that is far more realistic, for that matter... rather than something you're only likely to see depicted in suspense/horror flicks)

If I'm understanding things correctly--and, like I said before, I might not be--then the beginning stages of gaslighting are very much "it's messing with my head/I doubt myself," and don't necessarily skip to the full-blown stuff. So let's say that the boyfriend actually does have a more malicious agenda (and there really isn't anything that suggests he does)--this would be the "first stage." I'm glad that you understand where I was coming from (though, like I said previously, I wasn't meaning to offend anyone).

[Member54880]

I didn't say anything about gaslighting or if it wasn't, because it wasn't clear if it was or wasn't from the context. I thought it was plausible that OP's partner was saying those things about them desiring sex or experiencing sexual attraction because of how it's commonly assumed that sexual behavior must mean sexual desire, or enjoying it must always be the result of sexual desire. They may have those assumptions if they haven't known of asexuality before. However, I can see where the questions and concerns about gaslighting are coming from. Being doubted by a partner can feel especially painful, regardless of their intent or lack of.

Pardon me if these are too intrusive, but some other questions to ask are: How did you feel when he said those statements to you? Did you gauge any kind of intent behind those statements? Do you feel like you can talk about how you feel about sex to him?