About stigmas & family dis-acceptance?

[AceInDaBlackHole]

Can other people detect a-sexuality? Do we have a hand gesture or other physical trait in common that other people notice and know we're Ace, even on some level?

It's clear to me now that my family knew and didn't like it but didn't directly discuss it. I just can't figure out how they could know before I did?

Also, how did the "Aces are mathematicians" stigma start?

Does anyone else feel a little dizzy when talking about it or did you at first?

tia

[One Winged Angel]

In theory no, Asexuals do not appear different or have any outward traits that suggest we are Asexual. You could however subconsciously be putting out an attitude of disinterest in sexual activity which makes those in know suspect Asexuality.

I am actually not aware of a stereotype of Asexuals being mathematicians. I mean, I am a mathematical idiot! There does exist a certain stereotype that Asexuals are bookish or nerdy in some way, but this is not in itself true, as although some Asexuals are like this, many are not.

Also yes, I would feel generally uncomfortable, including possible dizziness, if discussing Asexuality with someone in person, especially if they were unlikely to understand it or have a negative reaction.

[NerotheReaper]

I don't think we are physically any different than anyone else, maybe some people project their disinterest or discomfort and give off a different vibe. But generally speaking we don't have some secret handshake. (If we do I don't know about it)

I think the stigma you are talking about is more of a stereotype. Since a stigma is a mark of disgrace usually, like mental illness. A stereotype is a gernalized idea of a perceived or man made assumptions about a group of people.

[AceInDaBlackHole]

I think the stigma you are talking about is more of a stereotype. Since a stigma is a mark of disgrace usually, like mental illness. A stereotype is a gernalized idea of a perceived or man made assumptions about a group of people.

Yes - stereotype, not stigma!

[AceInDaBlackHole]

In theory no, Asexuals do not appear different or have any outward traits that suggest we are Asexual. You could however subconsciously be putting out an attitude of disinterest in sexual activity which makes those in know suspect Asexuality.

Yes! An attitude!

I am actually not aware of a stereotype of Asexuals being mathematicians. I mean, I am a mathematical idiot! There does exist a certain stereotype that Asexuals are bookish or nerdy in some way, but this is not in itself true, as although some Asexuals are like this, many are not.

Not that I believe it but, I had read something to that effect. In part because of how I was punished for being myself, I had wondered when it started and would still wonder on the "bookish" or "nerdy" stereotypes when they started too. I'm curious also if there's any history documented about WHO was doing the stigmatizing and where? Someplace in the UK in the 1800's or NJ 20 years ago?

Also yes, I would feel generally uncomfortable, including possible dizziness, if discussing Asexuality with someone in person, especially if they were unlikely to understand it or have a negative reaction.

Thanks! I'm feeling dizzy just posting here. I half want to jump for joy and 1/2 to ignore it all over again. It's hard to wrap my mind around it. It, meaning the way others reacted to me and how long it took me to understand basically, that I'll never understand.

Do you think Seinfeld was about a-sexuals who sometimes got into sex?

[Sylvastor]

I didn't hear of the mathematician stereotype yet myself, but I suspect it's because maths is considered a lust-killer by many people (think of cartoons and comedies, where a character is trying to control his sexual urges by thinking of algebra, formulas and solving equations), so they probably think "they're asexual because they spend a lot of time being occupied with maths" or some other silly reason like that. :lol:

As for the sensing, I think other people could sense it when they notice the person spends fairly little time discussing such topics, sounds generally disinterested in starting such, contributing to them or participating in them, doesn't go clubbing or partying in order to "get laid", doesn't make remarks about how "sexy and hot" actor/actress x or athlete y is, doesn't (re)act on someone approaching them with an intention to be sexually intimate - or is eating unusual amounts of cake.

(I'm just kidding about the last one. ;))

Other than that, I'm not aware of anything else that could qualify. I doubt asexuals have some stereotypical way to walk or talk...

or...?

[AceInDaBlackHole]

Hi Sylvaster,

Thank-you!

That was a perfect insight about the math side of it!!!! lol! and...the rest of your post is also greatly appreciated!!!

I'll never understand how I didn't fill in the blanks about all the things I wasn't doing that others noticed, first. I suppose, having been thrown into "therapy" to "fix the problem" and hearing how it was everything - and I mean EVERYTHING - but being asexual, might have gotten in the way (not to mention having been put on enough medication (unneeded medication!) and feeling so sick from it, might have also presented just a slight distraction from my self-actualizing about my thoughts, feelings and behavior.

Slowly.....getting there.

Many thanks for helping me see this side of it clearer. :)

[Sylvastor]

You're welcome!

Well, it is usually easier to analyse someone else than analysing yourself.

Your own view about yourself is usually the most biased one after all, which makes it hard to observe yourself objectively. Your own set of believes affect your perception and thus also your "own reality", even more so when other people repeatedly tell you who and how you are or what's wrong with you and what isn't and you begin to believe that. The risks of bad therapy: You achieve the contrary.

Another aspect that might have played an important role is that you are alone in analysing your own behaviour whereas the people around you are a (social) group (who might as well talk about their observations to each other from time to time).

It's as simple as that. ;)

[AceInDaBlackHole]

Yep.

Is there anything else but bad therapy? I've heard that therapists all hate asexuals!

It's unfortunate we didn't know there was word for this then. The scope of years lost searching is painful. Granted, I wasn't into sex like it was the best thing on earth so have had a busy life but where it hurts is on lost communication on my part that turned into violence for it. I do blame myself enough because I never explored my sexuality and don't know why I didn't when all my friends were exploring theirs. Mistake I'm still paying for!

You have a good handle on these things. How long have you been familiar with the terminology?

[Sylvastor]

My suspicion to be asexual arose for the first time in 2014 around the time I was waiting for my Aspergers diagnosis thanks to a forum for autistics where some openly admitted to be asexual. I did some research then since the rough definition seemed to be somewhat fitting for me, but I only really started to properly read about those things around summer 2015.

I have to admit, I don't feel like missing out on a lot by not having been under the asexual umbrella, though there has been this feeling of being different and alienated in a way - additionally to my other kind of alien-feel. In my case, I feel like nothing would have changed as the alienation coming from asexuality was probably less noticable than the alienation from my Aspergers.

To give some additional insight on psychologists and therapies:

I also frequent a psychologist (for various reasons) and she is really great, one of those positive examples, so I can confirm they do exist! ;)

Not sure how common they are though (I surely hope they're not that rare! :o) since I was really lucky to directly end up with her instead of having to go through x people where it just doesn't click and you have no progress.

She helped me with a lot of things, one of them was to slowly figure out I am on the autistic spectrum (which went unnoticed until I was done with school in 2013, though we've started to discuss it by the end of 2011/start of 2012 already) and helping me to get a diagnosis.

I think she has even made a remark about asexuality a couple of times too, or at least compared my way of thinking/feeling about sex with it, but my memory is a bit hazy there, so I don't really remember what exactly she has said. She's definitely one of those who do not consider asexuality a product of one's imagination.

She never acted in a "this can't be/this is impossible/you're imagining things" way when I started about topics indirectly or directly related to that and rather told me what might be than directly excluding things. Pretty much following the rule of never telling her patient that what he/she's feeling is not true since the patient likely still knows best. Overall, a very open-minded person with a good approach.

I'm also interested in psychology and read a lot about it, which probably helped me in one way or another to figure myself out additionally to the sessions with her. Often she lent me books about specific topics to read at home too.

So yes, those kind of therapies and psychologists do exist! :D

Unfortunately, I only got one last hour left now and am waiting for a new therapy to be approved. I pretty much stretched it as long as possible, which inevitably has to end now. I'm just hoping the new ones I'll give a try will be just as good. Well, they got a good reputation at least... but I still hate that this has to come to an end.

[AceInDaBlackHole]

What has to come to an end? - your therapy or your post? It can be read both ways though, I'm sure if there's two, there must be three!

I would have never guessed you have Asperger's; you express yourself very well. And, you seem to have an intense handle on it all; that's good! :)

You're lucky to have someone there who understands you. I think the key is getting to choose your own therapist (or choose from a few). I didn't get to. If there's any area where we discriminated against very visibly, imo, it's on being called crazy which can sometimes be enough to make a person want to talk about not wanting to talk to them. I hope the public discourse will eventually teach younger people how to stand up to demands for therapy when it's about sexuality and/or minimally give them enough control over it that they can figure out a quick way to "get away" from it. (There is no quick or simple way when you're really young and you "have to" go so I hope it gets taught!)

[One Winged Angel]

I am always very skeptical, even worried, when people talk about going to see a therapist. Some people beleive that a therapist can solve their problems, that they have some magic touch or can prescribe, diagnose and talk your problems away. But this is not true. Yes, there are some good therapists out there, of course there are. But there are also those who are either ignorant, sanctimonious or have ulterior agendas.

You would usually know if you had the 'wrong' kind, but many people take their advice as the truth because they subconsciously believe that figures in authority must know what they are talking about. This is balderdash. It is very possible that you know more about Asexuality, for example, than the therapist does.

A good therapist is supposed to listen, and empathise. The second they start the heinous tactics of trying to mould your beliefs to fit their own - get out of there. If you leave feeling more annoyed and confused then before you went in, this is sure sign that the so called therapist is not doing a good job of providing therapy!

I have read in the past article by therapists and psychologists on the Internet. Some of them have dozens of letters after their names, and they wear a white coat and have a stern expression so they must know what they talking about, right? Wrong. I have been left absolutely gobsmacked, literally in a daze at some of the rotten rubbish these articles have spouted over the years. I have been sickened that such terrible advice was given to people who genuinely needed help.

Therapy genuinely helps some people, most certainly. But only you know will know if it benefits you. Those who say "everyone could do with a bit of therapy" is an piece of advice I simply have to disagree with! Be happy!

[Sylvastor]

To answer your question, AceInDaBlackHole, both are coming to an end. And thank you. ;)

I was told I express myself in a sophisticated way, at least in German. Not sure if same applies in English as this isn't my native language.

I am always very skeptical, even worried, when people talk about going to see a therapist. Some people beleive that a therapist can solve their problems, that they have some magic touch or can prescribe, diagnose and talk your problems away. But this is not true.

[...]

Therapy genuinely helps some people, most certainly. But only you know will know if it benefits you. Those who say "everyone could do with a bit of therapy" is an piece of advice I simply have to disagree with! Be happy!

This.

And to make it clear, psychologist aren't even allowed to diagnose something or prescribe something and they're certainly never able to just talk problems away. They're there to pinpoint what exactly might be troubling you, talk about the problems and work out ways to manage them with you, but that requires efforts from both parties involved, which means they're going to listen a lot to what you say and then ask questions and make proposals. It is still always up to the patients to act. If the patient is in denial or refusing to change, there's not much a psychologist will be able to do.

The only ones who can prescribe and diagnose are psychiatrists, which is pretty much their job (which was why I got referred from my psychologist to a psychiatrist for a diagnosis, to give an example).

Psychologists are meant to do therapy on a personal, social level, psychiatrists do it the medical way. Just wanted to make the difference clear! :)

[AceInDaBlackHole]

I have to agree with BritishE; I've seen most of what goes on in any therapy a person can survive and there is truly something wrong with those people. They do nothing. They twist words and try to make you think like they do like there's a rule somewhere that says my thinking is wrong? I mean, FGS, they don't talk like normal people to begin with. They don't come out and say, "Your family thinks you've got an issue with something sexual. What's your sexual identity?" and let a person respond with, "I'll talk to my family and none of your business". They instead blame everyone you love for every frustration and disappointed you ever had, ever might have and those they're negativity makes you imagine they have and want you to believe are real too!

Then, if you don't co-operate, they add another bogus diagnosis, like aggression, a shrink drugs you and you get threatened by them and at home that something bad can happen to you if you don't take the poison pills. (and they do blood tests)

By this time, some of less close friends, must have been thinking I killed someone or robbed a bank to be on such a short leash and in such a way as to destroy my growth process to try to force me to think like other people. There's something wrong with anyone who can look at another human being and think that human being is better off/not suffering if they believe they can feel more alive or vital or productive by thinking they can't think like they do!

I wasn't a really wild child or anything but I was working and going to school and having and going to a reasonable number of house parties (always all girls and always talking about clothes, make-up and school activities - no drinking & high grades) I had to be thinking something right! But, I not only wasn't allowed to but, now, the people who were abusing me for it at home now had a partner in a so-called professional! That can be scary and I needed my fear to understand I was being hurt but, they medicated my fear away. There's no way anyone can tell me that being mistreated like that causes mental health! That's bullshit! It's abuse!

Plain and simple.

They don't explain enough about what it is, ask rapid questions when if they cared a person know what it is they'd be quiet and let a person think and are master distractors. What 20 year old mind needs that over support to build their life? (I thought that was what therapy was - like a privatized career counseling)

I like the idea of being able to talk to another human being about all sorts of things and hope I'm receptive when others want to talk to me, too. But, I think talking to the wall is safer than talking to them, unless you're someone who can think so quickly that you can field every last manipulation tactic they use - under sedation drugs - and not get hooked into the pain they cause.

However it's designed (the psyche system) I do believe they are all quacks however, I did talk to an extremely kind social worker at a women's drop in center. It was a more laid back/casual yet focused place, away from the sterility of psyche. I got more out of 6 months of casual conversation than I did in 6 years of Nurse Ratchet and her gang!

It's too damaging to being able to "blossom" (for lack of a better word) early in life, for asexuals to be put in that kind of under-the-surface hostile, painted rose environment. I've accomplished more in less than a week because of this ACE community so I think there might be something to be said for friends over doctors! :)

Maybe it's only all about cake...

:lol:

[Sylvastor]

That sounds like one of the extreme, bad examples and such methods are (in my honest opinion) not only quite outdated but also malicious and harming!

Especially after what you've written, I can definitely understand your aversion. That wasn't therapy, that was simply numbing of an individual by using medical tools and trying to twist the person just to fit the desired criteria of someone (in that case, family?).

Honestly, whoever does that does something wrong on more than one level.

It's great to read that you're benefitting from visiting, reading and posting on AVEN though. Sometimes, contact to like-minded people or those who share the same feelings or went through similar experiences is what helps the most. :D

[AceInDaBlackHole]

Thank-you, Amoeba! It was just horrendous; a ganged up on and beaten into a corner kind of feeling. I don't even want to say how long it's taken me to find any hope because it was THAT damaging that it wasted my life for having to deal with it! Those people should be on trial ---- and yes. It was a family thing and I was too young to have any say in it. No one even told me why I was being put in therapy. I'd probably still be in it if it wasn't for a new doctor who had joined the team, went over my case (it was out patient) and put a stop to it. They then all blamed me for the trouble that doctor caused them! Just horrendous people!

It is archaic but I do come from a community where you just don't have anything "wrong" with you sexually. You marry and have kids or you get accused of all kinds of things as excuses - everything but the truth.

I hate to say that, right now, I do have left over rage towards those who hurt me (some still contact me and insist I change!) so yes, it's a very good thing that AVEN is here for us all. I may have so far survived more than some people over it all but, being human, I don't have a larger capacity to cope with it than anyone else or a larger capacity for emotion. I've worked through and let go of a lot so I actually come here with a lighter load than if I found AVEN even 5 years ago.

I think the main thing is we know it can happen in today's world and that we help make sure teens are aware it can happen before they just come out. They need to know where to turn and how to protect themselves incase there's a problem they feel trapped by. Had there been a life perserver tossed to me by anyone while I was in therapy, I would've grabbed it and high tailed it out of there, so the big thing kids need to look for is that they're being or already have been isolated by their family. In my case it was such a slow thing that I didn't notice my family had alienated all of my friends and extended family. Totally alone. I didn't have a hope of fighting back. Kids today can if they need to, if they know what to do to control their process of growing up enough to prevent an un-accepting family from abusing therapy to abuse the person.

Of course, if anyone has been through any similar trauma, they can feel free to PM me (so can anyone else who want to talk) I've gotten through it alone until I came here. It makes it a lot easier to talk with like-minded people.

I'm working this out in layers and trying to get to the understanding of the happiness I lost in relation to asexuality. All the hate only made me postpone the discovery, it didn't change it. So getting the worst over with first.

Thanks for the cake!!!! It's the best! :)