Aces into sex? Aros into romance?

[TheMaria]

How can an asexual like/want/seek sex? I can kinda sorta maybe understand how that might work, but I can't really put it into words. The closest I've come was that "to those people, sex is a pleasant feeling like a massage, and no one is all that fussed or gets tingly feelings about who their masseuse is gonna be" -- but I know that those aces probably wouldn't have sex with just anyone (because aesthetic, sensual, romantic, platonic attractions might be relevant), so I don't really like that analogy. I guess this all comes down to experiencing sexual desire but not attraction? What exactly is that like?

And even more confusing to me, how can an aromantic like/want/seek romance?

[Member4445]

Yes, Asexuals can like and enjoy sex. Generally, we don't seek it though.

It's pretty great.

[timidcat]

I don't experience romantic attraction but even if I could I'd still know that a romantic relationship is just not for me. I think aromantics can like the theory of such a relationship. It's nice to fantasize about someone seeing you as their whole world and having a life long commitment to you. Everyone in some way desires love, especially if they're currently unhappy with their social life.

[TheMaria]

Yes, Asexuals can like and enjoy sex. Generally, we don't seek it though.

It's pretty great.

I know, I am asexual, albeit a sex-repulsed one ;) I'm asking about the ones that do seek out sex; I'm asking how liking/seeking it out might be explained or described -- I'm not questioning that it's possible.

[banana monkey]

Sorry for my ignorance, its just that I would have thought that if anyone seeks out sex, they have sexual desire and as such it is questionable that they are asexual. Could you possibly explain why someone would seek out sex if they dont have sexual desire. That's confusing for me.

edited after reading different viewpoints on another thread, so that the post wasnt so hard hitting.

[Member4445]

Yes, Asexuals can like and enjoy sex. Generally, we don't seek it though.

It's pretty great.

I know, I am asexual, albeit a sex-repulsed one ;) I'm asking about the ones that do seek out sex; I'm asking how liking/seeking it out might be explained or described -- I'm not questioning that it's possible.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/141064-attitudes-towards-sex-favourable-people-on-aven/

See this thread, it might help a little :)

[Éadweard]

People have been known to have sex with people they aren't attracted to. But it's really not that great for either party. I have had sex to experiment because everyone else was doing it and I've had sex in a relationship because I felt I had too. But it wasn't the greatest and it's nothing I would ever seek out and claim to enjoy.

[henshin]

Asexuals do not want sex. That is the whole point.

If you are in a relationship and your partner wants to do it then you might feel physical pleasure at some of it, but asexuals will not actively want to have sex off their own backs.

Forget the semantic crap about attraction vs desire, if you experience either attraction to having sex with a partner or a desire to having sex with a partner, then that is regular sexuality.

[TheMaria]

Sorry for my ignorance, its just that I would have thought that if anyone seeks out sex, they have sexual desire and as such it is questionable that they are asexual. Could you possibly explain why someone would seek out sex if they dont have sexual desire. That's confusing for me.

edited after reading different viewpoints on another thread, so that the post wasnt so hard hitting.

I think you're confusing desire with attraction (the difference is explained here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/69810-what-is-sexual-attraction/).It has been argued that asexuals are those who don't experience attraction, but might still experience desire -- that is what I'm trying to wrap my mind around.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/141064-attitudes-towards-sex-favourable-people-on-aven/

See this thread, it might help a little :)

Yeah, it helped me realise I'd rather stay away from all this "label defining" craziness... Because I think I agree with what Panfictosaurus said and if it were up to me I'd group all people who experience desire (be it with or without attraction) under the same label, that of "sexual". However, it's not up to me and people are very touchy about labels and no one ever agrees on any definition and it's all so exhausting and ughh... To be perfectly honest I'm just happy to be sex-repulsed and therefore less likely to have my asexuality questioned/not have this whole discussion apply to me personally.

Asexuals do not want sex. That is the whole point.

If you are in a relationship and your partner wants to do it then you might feel physical pleasure at some of it, but asexuals will not actively want to have sex off their own backs.

Forget the semantic crap about attraction vs desire, if you experience either attraction to having sex with a partner or a desire to having sex with a partner, then that is regular sexuality.

Yeah, as I said above, I'd like to fully accept what you're saying. However, threads like the one Ciri linked to make me feel like I have no right to impose my label definitions on people (no matter how much more sensible I personally think they are lol)

[Guest]

If you want sex, desire it, seek it out, you're sexual. There are no "asexual reasons" for desiring sex. Period. I'll give ya that you could physically sorta enjoy it without ever wanting to have it again, but if you independently want to have sexual interactions, that's sexual, not asexual.

[TheMaria]

If you want sex, desire it, seek it out, you're sexual. There are no "asexual reasons" for desiring sex. Period. I'll give ya that you could physically sorta enjoy it without ever wanting to have it again, but if you independently want to have sexual interactions, that's sexual, not asexual.

About this and the discussion on Ciri's thread, let me see if I get what you and Pan were saying:

Lots of people on AVEN seem to think that sexual attraction = "I feel like having sex with them because they're hot"

What Pan said on the thread (and other people agreed with) was that sexual attraction = "I feel like having sex with them because they're hot/have an interesting personality/treat me kindly/[insert whatever reason]"

So these so-called "asexuals who seek out sex" would be the ones who don't care about hotness. However Pan said that even without the hotness factor, if you "feel like having sex with them because personality/kindess/[insert]" that makes you sexual.

To sum it up, I guess I've always equated sexual attraction with "finding people hot", but sexual attraction is actually "feeling like having sex", and that can be based on hotness or anything else. Is that it?

Formerly I'd have said that feeling like having sex for any reason other than hotness would be down to any attraction other than sexual (romantic, sensual, aesthetic etc), but now I see the attractions as the end goal: romantic means you "feel like having romance" for whatever reason, aesthetic means you "feel like looking at them" for whatever reason, sensual means you "feel like having non-sexual physical contact with them" for whatever reason...

[Guest]

Yeah basically. People want to have sex for all sorts of reasons. Whatever your reason, it's sexual if it makes you want to have sex. I personally don't give two shits about people's appearance, but I am very sexual.

[Guest]

I'm actually cleaning and didn't just quickly glance at AVEN to check my status notifications.. ahem.

To clarify, I don't really see sexual attraction (as it's most commonIy defined/experienced) as relevant at all because many sexual people still desire and enjoy sex without experiencing sexual attraction (and there are aces who experience it with no desire to actually physically have sex). As far as I'm concerned, if you actively want/desire to physicaIIy have sex with another person for sexual and/or emotional pleasure (regardless of whether that's because you love them, you find them attractive, or they're just a willing stranger who doesn't even match your ideas of aesthetic attractiveness) then that's sexual, not asexual.

Keeping in mind that AVEN itself defines sexual attraction *as* the desire for partnered sexual contact with someone else (regardless of whether that's because you think they're hot, you're in love with them, whatever) so if you look at "sexual attraction" like that, as the desire to connect sexually with another person, then yes, the lack of that is what makes someone asexual.

[TheMaria]

Keeping in mind that AVEN itself defines sexual attraction *as* the desire for partnered sexual contact with someone else (regardless of whether that's because you think they're hot, you're in love with them, whatever) so if you look at "sexual attraction" like that, as the desire to connect sexually with another person, then yes, the lack of that is what makes someone asexual.

I didn't really know that. In this case it's very strange that there's a pinned post on the Questions Forum explaining the difference between attraction and desire (a difference I was actually beginning to understand, but now I'm told even AVEN thinks it doesn't exist and desire is the definition of attraction)...

P.S.: What do you think of this? http://40.media.tumblr.com/0495b9712e9e362b5b2290e642046309/tumblr_nknrj43AO51s2gjqpo1_1280.jpg

[Janus the Fox]

There's a bit of mis-labling and mis-intrepretion of Asexuality here.

Simply many can be interested in sex differently, Sex is usually a physically pleasurable experience in of itself regardless of actual attraction.

Some just like it the way they like it, pure and simple.

Sex isn't a persons sexuality, its that simple.

Attractions are simply different from a persons actual behaviour.

Asexuals are free to do whatever they want to do and not be told otherwise on the internet.

Like me and many here, we for our selves my never in our lifetime feel anything in terms of desiring, feeling, experiencing attractions, feeling anything beyond what we do already feel or simply it stays exclusively personal with the likes of porn, masturbation or fetish.

There's nothing which makes anyone who they are but for who for which they are who they are.

[Blondbeard]

Yes, Asexuals can like and enjoy sex. Generally, we don't seek it though.

It's pretty great.

I know, I am asexual, albeit a sex-repulsed one ;) I'm asking about the ones that do seek out sex; I'm asking how liking/seeking it out might be explained or described -- I'm not questioning that it's possible.

It can be because different reasons, for example some asexuals can be very romantic and not sex repulsed so they can have sex to please their partners. There are are asexuals that can have sex because they want to have kids, other asexuals could even enjoy it while doing it, just like some way of masturbation.

Of course all this could be very difficult to feel for somebody who is arromantic or very sex negative. A person who doesn't enjoy partnership even without sex or that feels like puking if thinking about sex probably will not be in thise situations.

[TheMaria]

Simply many can be interested in sex differently, Sex is usually a physically pleasurable experience in of itself regardless of actual attraction.

Okay, but please explain that to me. I understand aces enjoying sex as a "physically pleasurable experience" when someone else leads them to it. However, if they enjoy it and therefore seek it -- that is, have a desire for it -- what is that if not the AVEN definition of sexual attraction, a desire for partnered sex? Do you have a different definition of sexual attraction?

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily,I just need a better explanation. Because you could say that people can enjoy and seek sex without attraction the way we enjoy and seek masturbation without being attracted to ourselves. However (as someone said in Ciri's thread), that would imply asexuals don't care who they have sex with/would do it with anyone -- which is not true. They would simply choose based on reasons other than "attraction", such as say, a close friendship.

But then if these "asexuals" enjoy, want and seek sex with their close friends, the most logical conclusion to me would be "they are sexually attracted (=have a desire for partnered sex) to them because they're good friends", as opposed to "they're not sexually attracted to them, the reason why they picked them for sex is that they're good friends."

[Éadweard]

Simply many can be interested in sex differently, Sex is usually a physically pleasurable experience in of itself regardless of actual attraction.

Okay, but please explain that to me. I understand aces enjoying sex as a "physically pleasurable experience" when someone else leads them to it. However, if they enjoy it and therefore seek it -- that is, have a desire for it -- what is that if not the AVEN definition of sexual attraction, a desire for partnered sex? Do you have a different definition of sexual attraction?

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily,I just need a better explanation. Because you could say that people can enjoy and seek sex without attraction the way we enjoy and seek masturbation without being attracted to ourselves. However (as someone said in Ciri's thread), that would imply asexuals don't care who they have sex with/would do it with anyone -- which is not true. They would simply choose based on reasons other than "attraction", such as say, a close friendship.

But then if these "asexuals" enjoy, want and seek sex with their close friends, the most logical conclusion to me would be "they are sexually attracted (=have a desire for partnered sex) to them because they're good friends", as opposed to "they're not sexually attracted to them, the reason why they picked them for sex is that they're good friends."

You are correct in every aspect of your argument.

[Blondbeard]

Simply many can be interested in sex differently, Sex is usually a physically pleasurable experience in of itself regardless of actual attraction.

Okay, but please explain that to me. I understand aces enjoying sex as a "physically pleasurable experience" when someone else leads them to it. However, if they enjoy it and therefore seek it -- that is, have a desire for it -- what is that if not the AVEN definition of sexual attraction, a desire for partnered sex? Do you have a different definition of sexual attraction?

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily,I just need a better explanation. Because you could say that people can enjoy and seek sex without attraction the way we enjoy and seek masturbation without being attracted to ourselves. However (as someone said in Ciri's thread), that would imply asexuals don't care who they have sex with/would do it with anyone -- which is not true. They would simply choose based on reasons other than "attraction", such as say, a close friendship.

But then if these "asexuals" enjoy, want and seek sex with their close friends, the most logical conclusion to me would be "they are sexually attracted (=have a desire for partnered sex) to them because they're good friends", as opposed to "they're not sexually attracted to them, the reason why they picked them for sex is that they're good friends."

Well, basically because sexuality is something very complex and trying to reach all grey cases and everything regarding asexuality in just one sentence it will never cut it. No matter how you see the definition, you can even flip it or make it fly but it will never explain everything, specially if we take on account that sexuality is an spectrum and drawing a line in the sand to separate where asexuality starts is impossible.

If instead by attraction you define it by let's say refusing to have sex, you will have the problem that you will put in the sexual basket people who have sex just because they want to have kids, even if they feel horrible while doing it, then you would have in the basket of asexuals people who really want to habe sex but be ause they have some religious views they refuse it.

Life is complicated and relationships are many times a struggle between cost and benefits, there are asexuals who totally refuse sex with a partner but with other one, if everything is great an awesome they prefer the cost of having sex, bad sex, 20 minutes every week and rip the benefits of everything else. For others the cost is so high that they cant accept it, for others they can accept it only to not infuriate their families or to have kids.

[TheMaria]

Blondbeard,

I won't even repeat the arguments about why that "line on the sand" is very much necessary. And no one here's discussing compromise sex or sex for ulterior motives (such as procreation).

I am also not saying that asexuals cannot enjoy/want/seek sex -- I just want an explanation for that, which no one has provided yet. The posts that do address "asexual sexual desire" (and not compromise sex) are missing the point by saying "everything's possible". Okay, everything's possible, but how does this specific possible thing work and which words can we use to describe it?

On the other hand, the "asexuals can't idependently want sex" camp has made much more consistent points.

[Blondbeard]

Blondbeard,

I won't even repeat the arguments about why that "line on the sand" is very much necessary. And no one here's discussing compromise sex or sex for ulterior motives (such as procreation).

I am also not saying that asexuals cannot enjoy/want/seek sex -- I just want an explanation for that, which no one has provided yet. The posts that do address "asexual sexual desire" (and not compromise sex) are missing the point by saying "everything's possible". Okay, everything's possible, but how does this specific possible thing work and which words can we use to describe it?

On the other hand, the "asexuals can't idependently want sex" camp has made much more consistent points.

If that's what you mean and consider important, in my opinion, and that's only my opinion, somebody who enjoy sex and this enjoyment is not a means to reach a different target, is not asexual. That would be the line in the sand for me. If a person enjoy-wants sex by itself and for no ulterior reasons.

[WhenSummersGone]

You don't need sexual attraction to desire partnered sex. Anyone can seek out anyone just for sex. I'd say if someone is desiring or seeking out sex then they aren't different from a regular sexual person. Also asexuals can enjoy sex as their parts still work.

[TheMaria]

You don't need sexual attraction to desire partnered sex. Anyone can seek out anyone just for sex. I'd say if someone is desiring or seeking out sex then they aren't different from a regular sexual person. Also asexuals can enjoy sex as their parts still work.

So if they "aren't different from a regular sexual person", you're saying it's a lack of desire, not attraction that should separate asexuals from sexuals?

[WhenSummersGone]

You don't need sexual attraction to desire partnered sex. Anyone can seek out anyone just for sex. I'd say if someone is desiring or seeking out sex then they aren't different from a regular sexual person. Also asexuals can enjoy sex as their parts still work.

So if they "aren't different from a regular sexual person", you're saying it's a lack of desire, not attraction that should separate asexuals from sexuals?

In my opinion and some others on this site yes. AVEN does define sexual attraction in their definition as the desire to have partnered sex/connect with someone sexually on here. I don't have a direct link to that though.

[TheMaria]

You don't need sexual attraction to desire partnered sex. Anyone can seek out anyone just for sex. I'd say if someone is desiring or seeking out sex then they aren't different from a regular sexual person. Also asexuals can enjoy sex as their parts still work.

So if they "aren't different from a regular sexual person", you're saying it's a lack of desire, not attraction that should separate asexuals from sexuals?

In my opinion and some others on this site yes. AVEN does define sexual attraction in their definition as the desire to have partnered sex/connect with someone sexually on here. I don't have a direct link to that though.

Yeah, someone else had mentioned that, but have a look at this: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/69810-what-is-sexual-attraction/

It says attraction often leads to desire, but they're not the same thing.

[binary suns]

why does it matter? what other people want and say about themselves does not change what you want and say about yourself.

I don't understand why sexuals want to have sex. do you? until I can begin to fathom why sex is all that super for a sexual person. why should I ask why an asexual would want sex? I can't figure either thing out so why should I judge them?

that's my two cents at lesat.

[Janus the Fox]

Why we can't describe asexuality further than that's already stated is that line in the sand often crosses over with potential risk of invalidating asexual individuals. Plenty of Hot Box threads tries to be more specific, these threads do get close of AVEN's Terms and Conditions.

[TheMaria]

why does it matter? what other people want and say about themselves does not change what you want and say about yourself.

I don't understand why sexuals want to have sex. do you? until I can begin to fathom why sex is all that super for a sexual person. why should I ask why an asexual would want sex? I can't figure either thing out so why should I judge them?

that's my two cents at lesat.

Well, I started this thread in the first place because of a friend who was wondering if he was asexual. He asked me about asexuals who want sex, I realised I didn't know the answer, I was interested in finding out the answer. No crime in wanting to understand something you don't.

Also I'm not judging anyone, at the very most I'm questioning the definition of a word (but like I've said several times, I'm not saying asexuals cannot want sex; I'm just trying to figure out a definition of asexuality that would be coherent with that).

[TheMaria]

Why we can't describe asexuality further than that's already stated is that line in the sand often crosses over with potential risk of invalidating asexual individuals. Plenty of Hot Box threads tries to be more specific, these threads do get close of AVEN's Terms and Conditions.

Where are the terms? Seriously, I'd like to check and I can't find them...

EDIT: Never mind, found them.

"Making judgments about other users, especially about the validity of their asexuality, is strongly discouraged. We are here to figure ourselves out, not to put each other in boxes." - well, this isn't about judging other users, it's about trying to understand the definition of certain terms.

[WhenSummersGone]

You don't need sexual attraction to desire partnered sex. Anyone can seek out anyone just for sex. I'd say if someone is desiring or seeking out sex then they aren't different from a regular sexual person. Also asexuals can enjoy sex as their parts still work.

So if they "aren't different from a regular sexual person", you're saying it's a lack of desire, not attraction that should separate asexuals from sexuals?

In my opinion and some others on this site yes. AVEN does define sexual attraction in their definition as the desire to have partnered sex/connect with someone sexually on here. I don't have a direct link to that though.

Yeah, someone else had mentioned that, but have a look at this: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/69810-what-is-sexual-attraction/

It says attraction often leads to desire, but they're not the same thing.

I think if they both lead to desire then to me lack of desire makes sense.