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Body dissociation = lack of dysphoria


Chardog

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I've had some real personal revelations in the past week. My mind is literally oblivious on some deep level to my physical sex (hence why I never realized anything was wrong until I was in a sexual relationship because that started triggering red flags in my subconscious). If I look at my boobs while I'm wearing clothes, they don't register as boobs. If I'm naked or in just a bra, then they're undeniably boobs. The lower bits are just there until you make them relevant in a sexual manner, and then my brain is like "Oh hell no!". This is also why I can wander around in this box just going about my business until someone hits on me (hooray for street harassment), then the parts that are effectively in my conscious brain's "blind spot" are highlighted and cause a dysphoric reaction.

Before I realized I was trans, I wasn't having an existential crisis when I looked in the mirror because my subconscious was already saying "boy" and my conscious would highlight my more boyish attributes (causing gender euphoria). Now that being trans is an understood fact in my conscious mind, I seem to focus on the opposite (things that highlight me as female to others even if I'm presenting in a gender neutral way).

As it follows my strange mind/body relationship and therefore the fact that my self image is a male one despite my female parts.. That's what makes me reluctant to transition. In my mind, my future self looks like a slightly more androgynous version of me and acts pretty much the same (and is still mixed on gender presentation). I feel like most of the changes that can be made would be to appease other people's idea of what male should be, not contributing to a more authentic version of myself. This isn't a matter of being non binary, because internally I relate to the world as very very male, but I still feel stuck in a neitherworld of sorts. Change and I become someone who's actually a less authentic version of me. Stay the same and have people keep wondering what's wrong with me when I don't think and act like they expect..

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This sounds like a lot of people's experiences; we come up with coping mechanisms for the dysphoria, whatever they may be, and go along. Then, when we start to realise what it is, it becomes oh so much more painful and "in your face", less ignore-able...

Sometimes I wish I could just rewind time back to when I didn't realise I was genderqueer :P Then I remember the things in life that my dysphoria was preventing me from doing, and how much I don't want to give those things up again... gah.

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And I went exactly the opposite way round. Before I had the slightest understanding of me being genderqueer, I felt really bad about myself. (Self-harming level) And the more I understand and accept it, the more at ease and comfortable in my skin I am. I used to limit myself to the definition of "girl" and play by the rules, but I go away from it more and more, realising that things are whatever we make them. For example. Boobs can carry a feminine meaning, like that of being warm and sweet, but boobs can be power and the most badass thing under the sun. I became a full-fledged pirate in those seas :P I don't have any existential crisis looking in the mirror any longer since I started identifying as not exactly cis. Since I accepted this possibility.

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Emery= Boob Pirate... ROTFLMAO

Heart- Unfortunately going back to a state of ignorance wouldn't result in much bliss.. I'd still be same old me wondering why I was so different and wondering when the magical "womanhood" switch was going to flip (or what I was doing wrong/not doing that was failing to trigger said mental switch- which I legitimately believed did exist).

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butterflydreams

Heart- Unfortunately going back to a state of ignorance wouldn't result in much bliss.. I'd still be same old me wondering why I was so different and wondering when the magical "womanhood" switch was going to flip (or what I was doing wrong/not doing that was failing to trigger said mental switch- which I legitimately believed did exist).

This is so so true. All of this stuff is a true Pandora's Box if ever there was one.

What you said in your opening post really resonated with me, Chardog. The more I think about it, the more I think so much of my "repulsion" and weirdness about sex is very similar to what you experience. Especially when I was younger. No one else was seeing me in a sexual way (I don't think), but I was told I was supposed to see myself in that very specific, male, sexual way. Like, "you're supposed to want this. You're supposed to interact with girls (or even guys) this way. It's totally ok! It's natural!" Only for me it wasn't, and I was very confused.

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Boobs? Yes, I like those. Haha.

I never believed in the mental switch. I can't reproduce my reasoning from before realising I'm not cis. That was when I noticed I was different. Before, I didn't realise at all. Between first mense and this, I was in a pretty tragic state gender-wise. I was like... "Wait! They are really thinking this? How come? I thought it was patriarchy and they pretend as much as I do, and feel as trapped as I do! :P" and then "Look, you reassemble men. Look. See? How come? I hate them. But wait, I hate them, because I maybe want to have the same? Maybe the difference between us is as illusionary as between me and my reflection?" Hm, that might actually point in the direction I was thinking before I understood. Patriarchy, pretending, gender role pressure, envy.

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Hadley- My only sexual relationship was pretty much because "that's what you do in adult relationships"... My lack of interest otherwise, in hindsight, I'm convinced is because my brain and those parts don't connect therefore no interest.

It's like managing my physical dysphoria is a function of keeping my body sexually irrelevant. As long as no one's pointing out that certain parts of me exist I can wander through the world with plausible deniability.

Emery- My belief that there must be something I wasn't doing or some experience that I lacked (or I just plain wasn't trying hard enough) is rooted in my growing up believing that I had control over my feelings 100% and it just was a matter of changing my mind (the brainwashing of a narcissistic mother).

Before I realized, I already had a HUGE disconnect with other females. Instead of freaking out about my body at puberty, all the other girls around me started acting stupid and fake in ways that I just couldn't wrap my head around. I played along as best I could, but I wanted to chew my arm off in protest. I thought maybe I was just more mature than they were.. But the feeling never changed as I got older. It got to the point where I didn't know what I was doing wrong that made me so different but it was like I'm on one side of the Grand Canyon and all other women (cis women) are on the other- what am I missing to bridge that gap?

I got on AVEN to try and figure out my lack of sexual attraction, stumbled into the gender forums and realized that maybe my programming and body didn't match? That gradually explained my disinterest in sex when I started realizing my

mind wasn't synching with my body.

Perfect me, body wise, would be my teenage physique plus a penis.. Trying to see if losing 50 pounds will get me more androgynous looking (should be 20, but I've gained 30 in the last year of unemployment despite bring physically active- I must burn a shitload of calories stressing out behind a desk, lol).

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butterflydreams

Hadley- My only sexual relationship was pretty much because "that's what you do in adult relationships"... My lack of interest otherwise, in hindsight, I'm convinced is because my brain and those parts don't connect therefore no interest.

Exactly! I've never had a sexual relationship myself, or anything for that matter, but it was always a "that's what you do in adult relationships" even if my mind was screaming, "no! What? Why?" I've considered that perhaps if I was with someone who I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, would be very attuned to me and would stop the minute anything seemed even slightly off, I could probably get over it. And for what it's worth, as I'm transitioning, I continue to see hints of desire for things within myself. That desire is worlds apart from what I "felt" before. Like you said that outside voice saying "this is just how it works". The intrinsic internal desire is so different. Scary sometimes, but ultimately good.

I got on AVEN to try and figure out my lack of sexual attraction, stumbled into the gender forums and realized that maybe my programming and body didn't match? That gradually explained my disinterest in sex when I started realizing my

mind wasn't synching with my body.

I hope no one takes offense to this, but I can't wrap my head around being trans and wanting to be sexual with people before transition. I know so many trans women who, before their transition, would date gay men, have sex, do all kinds of stuff. I simply can't wrap my head around that. I can't even imagine wanting that. And that's not even because I'm not into guys. I think I very much am, but how do people get past the dysphoria in those situations? In sexual situations, I know my dysphoria would be turned to 11.
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Hmm I was very similar. I didn't experience "traditional" dysphoria in that I didn't look at myself and think I should've been a guy, I just... dissociated from it. It wasn't until I was irrefutably reminded that I wasn't a guy, e.g. people staring at and/or having conversations with my chest, sex, etc that my dyphoria kicked in and I'd go further and further into the depths of my mind where it didn't hurt to be seen (and objectified) as something I wasn't. I didn't see myself in the mirror, or in photos. It was someone else that everyone seemed to think was me. It all felt like a horrible, horrible joke.

Since accepting that I'm trans (after all, I was in denial for 20+ years) and edging towards transition, my dysphoria has changed somewhat. Now it's definitely "eugh, chest". When I'm presenting as male, which, granted isn't great because of my chest, I now actually get offended when someone still refers to me as female... I feel incredulous that someone would make such a horrific mistake. But of course, my face will often pass, but my body certainly needs some work. I still don't like the fact that I get scrutinised and people seem to think they've won some kind of weird game "figuring out" that I'm biologically female. Umm well done, do you want a pat on the back?

I got on AVEN to try and figure out my lack of sexual attraction, stumbled into the gender forums and realized that maybe my programming and body didn't match? That gradually explained my disinterest in sex when I started realizing my
mind wasn't synching with my body.

I hope no one takes offense to this, but I can't wrap my head around being trans and wanting to be sexual with people before transition. I know so many trans women who, before their transition, would date gay men, have sex, do all kinds of stuff. I simply can't wrap my head around that. I can't even imagine wanting that. And that's not even because I'm not into guys. I think I very much am, but how do people get past the dysphoria in those situations? In sexual situations, I know my dysphoria would be turned to 11.

I find it weird too, that people would be happy about sex before transition. When I was trying to be a straight woman (ha!) I really would switch off until it was over. It was dysphoria overdrive and I can see why in that situation asexuality is so heavily intertwined with gender and dysphoria for a lot of people because sure, your body might do what it's supposed to, but there's no way in hell your mind can.

I certainly didn't want to be sexual with people up until a year or two ago, but I did push myself to do so because of course, I thought that's what I'm supposed to do, and I realise now it was far less about asexuality than it was about being in the wrong skin. It's so easy for people here to say "I'm asexual, that's why I don't feel like a gender/connect with my body in any way" but I reckon for the majority of people it's the other way around. If you feel comfortable in your own body, you'd want to share it and you'd want to feel fucking good doing it.

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butterflydreams

I got on AVEN to try and figure out my lack of sexual attraction, stumbled into the gender forums and realized that maybe my programming and body didn't match? That gradually explained my disinterest in sex when I started realizing my

mind wasn't synching with my body.

I hope no one takes offense to this, but I can't wrap my head around being trans and wanting to be sexual with people before transition. I know so many trans women who, before their transition, would date gay men, have sex, do all kinds of stuff. I simply can't wrap my head around that. I can't even imagine wanting that. And that's not even because I'm not into guys. I think I very much am, but how do people get past the dysphoria in those situations? In sexual situations, I know my dysphoria would be turned to 11.

I find it weird too, that people would be happy about sex before transition. When I was trying to be a straight woman (ha!) I really would switch off until it was over. It was dysphoria overdrive and I can see why in that situation asexuality is so heavily intertwined with gender and dysphoria for a lot of people because sure, your body might do what it's supposed to, but there's no way in hell your mind can.

I certainly didn't want to be sexual with people up until a year or two ago, but I did push myself to do so because of course, I thought that's what I'm supposed to do, and I realise now it was far less about asexuality than it was about being in the wrong skin. It's so easy for people here to say "I'm asexual, that's why I don't feel like a gender/connect with my body in any way" but I reckon for the majority of people it's the other way around. If you feel comfortable in your own body, you'd want to share it and you'd want to feel fucking good doing it.

Part of me feels really sad about it. Part of me wants that so badly. I want to feel good about my body, I want to feel that connection in sharing it with someone I care about. I hate that I can't. I let myself daydream about having the right body, and feeling ok for once in my life. It's so unbelievably hard, and depressing at times too. One thing that helps keep me going is knowing that MtF transitions can be very good. It helps me keep up hope. If I didn't have that, I'm not sure what I'd do. For now though, I do have to consider myself asexual.
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I don't really care about my body, and I feel like my being a man is quite different from e.g. Dissloved's being a man. I could have had more fortunate wiring when it comes to sex, but I don't really care one way or another. I would prefer different bits, or to have my wiring fixed in this aspect, because it's a bit annoying, but I'm not sure if I would like to be physically male. My wanting to be a boy and dysphoria in the past was closely tangled with misunderstanding of who I am, and who are other people, and in the end, I think that where I'm at, somewhere in between, is a quite good place to be.

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I got on AVEN to try and figure out my lack of sexual attraction, stumbled into the gender forums and realized that maybe my programming and body didn't match? That gradually explained my disinterest in sex when I started realizing my

mind wasn't synching with my body.

I hope no one takes offense to this, but I can't wrap my head around being trans and wanting to be sexual with people before transition. I know so many trans women who, before their transition, would date gay men, have sex, do all kinds of stuff. I simply can't wrap my head around that. I can't even imagine wanting that. And that's not even because I'm not into guys. I think I very much am, but how do people get past the dysphoria in those situations? In sexual situations, I know my dysphoria would be turned to 11.

I find it weird too, that people would be happy about sex before transition. When I was trying to be a straight woman (ha!) I really would switch off until it was over. It was dysphoria overdrive and I can see why in that situation asexuality is so heavily intertwined with gender and dysphoria for a lot of people because sure, your body might do what it's supposed to, but there's no way in hell your mind can.

I certainly didn't want to be sexual with people up until a year or two ago, but I did push myself to do so because of course, I thought that's what I'm supposed to do, and I realise now it was far less about asexuality than it was about being in the wrong skin. It's so easy for people here to say "I'm asexual, that's why I don't feel like a gender/connect with my body in any way" but I reckon for the majority of people it's the other way around. If you feel comfortable in your own body, you'd want to share it and you'd want to feel fucking good doing it.

Part of me feels really sad about it. Part of me wants that so badly. I want to feel good about my body, I want to feel that connection in sharing it with someone I care about. I hate that I can't. I let myself daydream about having the right body, and feeling ok for once in my life. It's so unbelievably hard, and depressing at times too. One thing that helps keep me going is knowing that MtF transitions can be very good. It helps me keep up hope. If I didn't have that, I'm not sure what I'd do. For now though, I do have to consider myself asexual.

I don't understand it either, I'm fairly sure at this point that I am probably a gay man and not asexual at all, however as long as my body is female, I am asexual. So I say I am asexual, because I can relate more to that orientation... I think. I don't understand how anyone could have sex before they transition, it makes me physically ill to think about it. I mean if you want to, go for it. But I could never do that.

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Sex "as a woman" isn't exactly the most pleasant of experiences :unsure:

(in my dysphoria ridden opinion)

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Calligraphette_Coe

Change and I become someone who's actually a less authentic version of me. Stay the same and have people keep wondering what's wrong with me when I don't think and act like they expect..

I sometimes feel like an intergalactic gender explorer whose travelling physicality was constructed in space. Once the components are there and pieced together, they no longer have to be aerodynamic. It's like knowing that once the birds owned the skies until humans transcended into flight, and from there, only humans had the wherewithal to make it to the airlessness of space where the birds couldn't follow.

Because what would a parakeet do in a spaceship? But it would still be just as beautiful.....

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butterflydreams

Sex "as a woman" isn't exactly the most pleasant of experiences :unsure:

(in my dysphoria ridden opinion)

But that's just it, it's so easy (for me anyway) to see how much dysphoria clouds opinions on this. I've certainly read things by trans guys about how important "sex as a guy" is to them, while in my head I'm like, "NOPE!" Whereas "sex as a woman"? Hell even "relationships as a woman"...it all makes intrinsic sense to me. I can see it being something I'd want. I can imagine myself in that situation. It sounds appealing...pretty much just like any sexual cis person.

What's amazed and surprised me is how quickly my tune changed on my body in relation to anything from sex to even a pretty heavy make out session. Not to get TMI, but let's just say my upper half is a LOT closer to how I need to be now, and that factors a lot into how sexual I can imagine myself being. The lower half makes things tough, but there's so much less conflict and internal strife in me now. Still very carefully, but I wouldn't be 100% opposed to sharing myself with someone now like I used to be when LARPing as a guy.

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Sex "as a woman" isn't exactly the most pleasant of experiences :unsure:

(in my dysphoria ridden opinion)

But that's just it, it's so easy (for me anyway) to see how much dysphoria clouds opinions on this. I've certainly read things by trans guys about how important "sex as a guy" is to them, while in my head I'm like, "NOPE!" Whereas "sex as a woman"? Hell even "relationships as a woman"...it all makes intrinsic sense to me. I can see it being something I'd want. I can imagine myself in that situation. It sounds appealing...pretty much just like any sexual cis person.

What's amazed and surprised me is how quickly my tune changed on my body in relation to anything from sex to even a pretty heavy make out session. Not to get TMI, but let's just say my upper half is a LOT closer to how I need to be now, and that factors a lot into how sexual I can imagine myself being. The lower half makes things tough, but there's so much less conflict and internal strife in me now. Still very carefully, but I wouldn't be 100% opposed to sharing myself with someone now like I used to be when LARPing as a guy.

I get that so much. For years the only romantic/erotic content I have been aroused by was with was two men, like from the time I was 15. I tried reading heterosexual erotic, but I would always focus on the man in the situation. Heterosexual erotica is usually really boring to me, unless there's an element of kink (that trumps most things), I never even tried to read lesbian erotica but I have to figure that I would even more dis-interested. I read almost all slash fan fiction, and sometimes threesomes. I never thought about how that could play into my gender or sexuality, I just thought that I had another kink.

However now, thinking of myself as male and having a male partner makes me instantly happy and turned on, thinking of myself as female with anyone is just awful, and thinking about myself as a man with a woman is okay, but there are no fireworks, and it's a bit dis-jointed.

So I think that my asexuality is caused by my body in a very large way, it amazes me how much of a difference there can be in just imagining the right body, I have to guess that it's even better when you start to actually line up right.

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Emery= Boob Pirate... ROTFLMAO

Heart- Unfortunately going back to a state of ignorance wouldn't result in much bliss.. I'd still be same old me wondering why I was so different and wondering when the magical "womanhood" switch was going to flip (or what I was doing wrong/not doing that was failing to trigger said mental switch- which I legitimately believed did exist).

Heh I am in the same boat as you. Had I not learned of the term genderqueer for myself I still would have questioned it all up and down considering my own family literally threw me into a gender identity crisis in my late teen years. When I think about GQ after the fact I do feel that I have to do a significant amount of dissociating just to exist in society ... I am small chested so I have that in my favor but just because I wear a purse, the outside world perceives me as a female. I still don't understand what they see after time in and time again. Of course my dumb brother says that my "type" attracts lesbians because I don't dress feminine yet I've not ever had woman hit on me but yet if I wear something more feminine then I will constantly get hit on by a cishet dude ...

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