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Gender Indifferent


EnterCreativeName

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EnterCreativeName

So I've been thinking about this off and on a bit. I decided that I wanted to write down my thoughts and share them. I want to see if there's any label I might have skipped over or missed, or see if anyone else feels the same. I've made a similar post about how to feel gender, but this one is just my thoughts and feelings.

I'm female bodied, I was born that way and identify that way. I call myself female, but that's only because I was born that way. I've been called he and him before. I've had a child ask if I was a boy or a girl, a person at my school accidentally call me a boy, and a stranger in the library call me a 'young man'. I have a flat chest already, with a boyish hair cut because I like it really short. Most people look guilty when they realize their mistake, but I don't really care. I'll actually smile. I feel no connection to pronouns. You can call me she, he, them... I don't care. If I was to somehow wake up male, I'd be fine. Give me a day or two to adjust (an awkwardly explain to family/friends), then I'd continue as if nothing ever happened. If I were to stay in the body I have now, that would be fine.

I feel nothing really towards my body. I don't feel like I need to change at all. I'm fine with my breasts, as I was born with them, but I could also do without them. Like I said earlier, my chest is pretty flat. If I want to dress more female, I'll wear shirts that V in front, if I want to dress more male, I just on a sports bra and call it good. I wear whatever I see comfortable in the morning. Some days I wear more 'girly' things, other days I dress in the boy shorts I own and a shirt I got from my brother. My hair can go either way. It's short like a boy's, but if I really wanted to, I can make it girly. I can't stand make up, putting my hair up, dresses shirts, or anything too 'girly' though.

I hang out more with the guys than girls. I feel more comfortable with them, as I have a brother and pretty much all my cousins are guys too. I grew up with them, though in school most of my friends were female. I'd rather be messing around outside and playing violent video games than inside doing my nails and taking about make up and listening about boyfriends.

I've gone over labels and can't seem to find one that fits. At first I thought bigender, then I realized that I don't even know what it feels like to be female or male. That also cancels out being demi. Agender and genderless doesn't feel like they fit me... All I can really find is gender indifferent. I'm not trying to force labels or try to come up with something new. I'm just trying to put down my thoughts and see if someone feels the same as me.

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AVEN #1 fan

I always thought cis-genderless=gender indifferent

Anyway it exists.

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Sounds like me in a lot of ways.

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You sound like me. I'm a female who's quite OK with that fact, although I don't much like being called a woman as that to me comes with stereotypes that don't fit me at all. My interests, clothing choices etc are quite masculine on the whole, most of my friends are male and I occasionally get mistaken for a bloke, which doesn't bother me as I make no special effort to look like either gender. I suppose I'd describe myself as a butch (ish) female ace. I don't know what half of the labels on here mean so I'll just stick with that lol.

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Sounds like you have an apathy for gender. So like agender or, because you are okay with the sex/gender you were assigned, cis-genderless. I also don't have any connection with pronouns, I don't mind which someone uses on me. If someone reads me as male, I'm fine with it. I'm just happy I didn't get read as female again (which I get about 99% of the time). I feel like pronouns don't have to be connected to gender. "He" doesn't mean you are a boy or boyish.

And liking to wear certain clothes and having a certain haircut, doesn't mean you are a girl or a boy. Gender expression doesn't equal gender identity. You just like to wear certain clothes and short hair is easy to manage. If you don't like things that are seen as girly, doesn't mean you are non-binary or a boy. It just means you don't like these certain things.

I'd be interested if you ever experience dysphoria (mainly talking about body dysphoria)? This could be a sign for rather being agender than cis-genderless.

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EnterCreativeName

Sounds like you have an apathy for gender. So like agender or, because you are okay with the sex/gender you were assigned, cis-genderless. I also don't have any connection with pronouns, I don't mind which someone uses on me. If someone reads me as male, I'm fine with it. I'm just happy I didn't get read as female again (which I get about 99% of the time). I feel like pronouns don't have to be connected to gender. "He" doesn't mean you are a boy or boyish.

And liking to wear certain clothes and having a certain haircut, doesn't mean you are a girl or a boy. Gender expression doesn't equal gender identity. You just like to wear certain clothes and short hair is easy to manage. If you don't like things that are seen as girly, doesn't mean you are non-binary or a boy. It just means you don't like these certain things.

I'd be interested if you ever experience dysphoria (mainly talking about body dysphoria)? This could be a sign for rather being agender than cis-genderless.

No, I can't really say I experience it. I'm pretty comfortable in my body. There are days where I'll purposely bind my chest a little flatter, but I never have a reason like dysphoria behind it. I just kind of feel like doing it somedays, while others I don't.

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Plectrophenax

[…]

Aside from prefering to hang out with boys specifically [it seems a lot more as though you prefer certain activities and happen to know a lot more boys that share this preference than girls - as you yourself demonstrate, a liking for violent videogames or playing outside is not gender-exclusive], I feel the exact same apathy towards gender.

When pressed to use a label, I go by agender, but as was already stated, the technically 'correct' word for gender apathy in absence of dysphoria is 'cis-genderless'. I'm personally not particularly partial to that term, though, because I get the impression that 'cis' doesn't merely mean 'non-dysphoric' but is linked to positive or, at best, neutral gender identity. It doesn't strike me as fitting if an identification with a gender is completely absent. But that's labels for you, and ultimately your choice.

Rest assured, though, that you are not alone. Indeed, I think it's actually quite common. Who's to say, after all, that a boy who happens to like outside sports or a girl that happens to like dresses and talking about crushes are not also largely gender apathetic? There are those who become protective of their gender in a peculiar way, but a lot of people I know do not. Food for thought, I suppose.

I feel like pronouns don't have to be connected to gender. "He" doesn't mean you are a boy or boyish.

Well, if not, then what are they based on? Because it's not arbitrary. It doesn't go by behaviour [if someone behaves in a way that is 'boyish' - whatever that is - the male pronouns don't instantly become the pronouns of choice] but does, indeed, seemingly go by biological makeup as it can be percieved by us. When people make a mistake, they feel ashamed in the same way they would if they mistook you for being taller than you actually are - it's considered an 'obvious' mistake and one that is likely to be taken personally [again, likely becase for many people their gender is relevant in some way].

The only reason I don't care about pronouns is because I assume that they are connected to gender - or, I should say, biological sex. As irrelevant as I find that to be in 99% of interactions, it is at least not wrong. Even if a mistake is made, it is, at least, still a clearly defined criteria. But if it means something else [like assumed behaviour or characteristics] then I would have to empathetically reject them in their adequacy.

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I feel like pronouns don't have to be connected to gender. "He" doesn't mean you are a boy or boyish.

Well, if not, then what are they based on? Because it's not arbitrary. It doesn't go by behaviour [if someone behaves in a way that is 'boyish' - whatever that is - the male pronouns don't instantly become the pronouns of choice] but does, indeed, seemingly go by biological makeup as it can be percieved by us. When people make a mistake, they feel ashamed in the same way they would if they mistook you for being taller than you actually are - it's considered an 'obvious' mistake and one that is likely to be taken personally [again, likely becase for many people their gender is relevant in some way].

The only reason I don't care about pronouns is because I assume that they are connected to gender - or, I should say, biological sex. As irrelevant as I find that to be in 99% of interactions, it is at least not wrong. Even if a mistake is made, it is, at least, still a clearly defined criteria. But if it means something else [like assumed behaviour or characteristics] then I would have to empathetically reject them in their adequacy.

I rather feel like I don't care about pronouns, because I feel like they are not connected with gender. And I've seen some genderqueer/non-binary people say this as well. They go by a "gendered" pronoun (he or she) and are actually not boyish or girlish. Also a lot of queer men are calling each other "she" or female words (you know like girl or something) and I'm sure they don't do it to misgender each other or be homophobic (saying they see the other person as effeminate and call them a woman). Of course it started as this, I assume she and he pronouns were made to call men and women with different words. But I think anyone could really go with any pronouns, nobody should assume that a person, who goes by "she" pronouns is a woman, cause maybe she isn't.

I don't really get why people get so hyped up by apparently misgendering someone. Insisting someone is a certain gender (even if they told, they are actually another gender) and feeling weird when they made this "mistake". Use the words the other person told you to and go on with your life. And why use gendered words anyway? Isn't "Excuse me!" enough, why say "Excuse me, Miss!". Sorry I'm just ranting.

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Plectrophenax

Fair enough. I find it a little off-putting to use any pronoun at all if their meaning is apparently so vague and flexible. Not knowing the standard by which they are to be differentiated [provided there's a difference at all] would lead me to a strict avoidance of using them in the fist place. Because there's tedium involved in this, due to the language requiring the use of certain pronouns at certain times, I have no problem using them in their purely descriptive sense. When someone asks me to use something different, I naturally comply out of a sense of consideration - but I can't help but feel the need to ask them what they think the difference in the pronoun usage makes.

Also, the simple reason why people 'insist' someone is a certain gender is because they have a different idea of what gender is - a vast majority of people consider gender to be your set of chromosomes, thus something that is 'set'. That's being dismissive of other people's preferences [and it is contentious regarding the status of transpeople anyway], but there you go. It will require a huge shift in the connotation of the word 'gender' before the free and flexible use of pronouns will become 'mainstream', as it were. I would certainly benefit from that, since I have trouble understanding the term in the first place.

And why use gendered words anyway? Isn't "Excuse me!" enough, why say "Excuse me, Miss!".

I could not agree more. It's supposed to be a specification, I assume, but there's way too many misses for that to be practical. It would be like saying "Excuse me, Simon" in a world where half the people are called Simon. You'd need more cues to draw a specific person's attention than that.

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Ms.Frankenstein

OP I feel exactly the same way! (and I think I just replied to your post in another thread too saying the same! Lol)

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