What is Male/Female?

[R_1]

To me, they mean whatever they mean to a person. Much like how the word god can mean whatever to whatever person. If you know what igtheism is, then you know what igenderism is.

[Scottthespy]

I believe that there is no such thing as 'gender'. As others on this thread have said, you have your physical sex, and then who you are in your head. 'who you are' is so utterly unique and personal as to defy the need for labels. 'Gender', to me, is based on made up antiquated societal rules meant to tell people what their 'place' was, 'gender roles' that are actively harmful to society but are clung to out of tradition. It is based in a mix of what people want their bodies to look like and be capable or, and a tangled web of stereotypes.

Imagine a world where who you were didn't have to be linked to your body at all. In a world without 'gender', there might still be body dysphoria, but it wouldn't be 'a man trying to be a woman', it would be 'a male who doesn't like that body', up and until such a time as they were able to get the surgeries to make their body the way they wanted, at which point they would be either 'a female with a body they now like' or some half way point. Sex reassignment surgery, in such a world, would be no different than dying your hair, getting tattoos, liposuction. All just ways to change the way our bodies look or function to suit us better. There would be no 'trying to be something other than what you were born as', because people would grow up understanding that who you are and how you were born are utterly unconnected.

[Emery.]

Seriously, I have no idea any more. I know that there is something like an inner sense of gender that results from the brain, because I have that and it tells me I'm a guy against all odds, but otherwise: biology + social construct + stereotypes + whatever the speaker had in mind

[Busrider]

(sorry I scrolled quickly) I suggest doing an online search for "gender identity test" filling out 2 or 3 of these, to get an answer for your initial question.

Disclaimer: I just did (12 questions quickie) 2.5 questions felt "toss a coin" and I maybe picked the girlier answers; anyhow I scored 75% female but define myself as "slightly" or minimum male i.e. despite my "tender" age, I tend to act either boy or old fool, barely ever seriously "mature" and ultra competitive. I suppose any gender questioning is triggered by not really fitting into your assigned at birth box (which is outlined by the tests' questions.

Sorry about answering indirectly but I guess the suggested approach gives a better answer than I could come up with spontanously.

[ChillaKilla]

Busrider, those questions seem very stereotypical and based off of societal perceptions of gender, not to mention limited to binary

[m4rble]

Busrider, those questions seem very stereotypical and based off of societal perceptions of gender, not to mention limited to binary

I agree. A test on gender that asks if you're good at math is completely full of shit.

[AVEN #1 fan]

Busrider, those questions seem very stereotypical and based off of societal perceptions of gender, not to mention limited to binary

I agree. A test on gender that asks if you're good at math is completely full of shit.

Tbh it's sexist, misogynist and transphobic/cissexist.

[ChillaKilla]

Literally the whole thing is "If you like math and are severely emotionally stunted, congrats you're a guy. If you are a vapid overemotional bimbo you're a girl."

[AVEN #1 fan]

Literally the whole thing is "If you like math and are severely emotionally stunted, congrats you're a guy. If you are a vapid overemotional bimbo you're a girl."

Tbh, women deal with emotion better than men.

[ChillaKilla]

Debatable... due to societal conditioning? Probably. Inherent differences? Definitely not.

[AVEN #1 fan]

Debatable... due to societal conditioning? Probably. Inherent differences? Definitely not.

Men are denied to have strong emotions anyway.

[m4rble]

Apparently I don't express my emotions very clearly but I think in a less expressive culture I'd fit right in.

[Emery.]

I'm emotional and good at math - what does it make me? :P

[Cobie]

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[henshin]

Basically, you get born and some adults tell you which gender you are and if you don't mind too much you end up being that gender for life. That is all. There is no mythical feeling about what it feels like to be male or female.

Umm no.. I was TOLD I was a girl when I got caught standing up to pee around 3 years old. I spent the next 30 years of my life feeling off in relation to other females- I couldn't tell you WHAT, but they have something that I do not have. And my body definitely told me something wasn't right in my first and only sexual relationship to date (and nope, it wasn't because I was ace- my brain and my body don't align). If you aren't questioning your gender it's because you're cis and don't feel any discord in relation to it..

This is not contrary to my post, it is in fact basically what I meant in my post. You are not the person who didn't mind being labelled the gender everyone assumed at birth. No-one knows why some people are trans and some are cis, but dissolved mentions above, there probably is some relation to one's body and gender that goes above and beyond societal expectations.

But beyond that, how do you define what is male or female? It seems you can only define it by what it's not, and trans people are the living embodiment of that. You can't define male or female any better than I, you just know you're not female.

[Emery.]

No-one knows why some people are trans and some are cis

Some things don't have a reason and happen just because they weren't impossible

[bxcellent2eo]

Gender is a social construct. Society expects people with specific genitalia and secondary sex characteristics to act in a certain way.

I'm biologically male, but identify as female. I always preferred the role of being gentle, compassionate and loving. I care about my looks, wishing to look pretty. I always found the female body to be aesthetically pleasing, compared to the male body. I never identified with my male friends who were all about "gettin the pussy." Part of that could be because I'm graysexual, but a lot had to do with my respect and admiration for girls.

I had an unsupportive family, so I tried to live as a male for a long time. But it was always on the back of my mind. One of my partners and several friends have made comments to me that I'm such a girl. It was inevitable. So I started taking hormones and have been on the road to happiness since.

[R_1]

Debatable... due to societal conditioning? Probably. Inherent differences? Definitely not.

Men are denied to have strong emotions anyway.

As a person who identify as a man, I really wish I don't think like a very emotional person with empathy. But, I just picture myself like that, but with a "female body".

[AVEN #1 fan]

Debatable... due to societal conditioning? Probably. Inherent differences? Definitely not.

Men are denied to have strong emotions anyway.

As a person who identify as a man, I really wish I don't think like a very emotional person with empathy. But, I just picture myself like that, but with a "female body".

Maybe bc you were taught by society that being emotional and having empathy is an attractive feminine atribute.

[R_1]

Debatable... due to societal conditioning? Probably. Inherent differences? Definitely not.

Men are denied to have strong emotions anyway.

As a person who identify as a man, I really wish I don't think like a very emotional person with empathy. But, I just picture myself like that, but with a "female body".

Maybe bc you were taught by society that being emotional and having empathy is an attractive feminine atribute.

Not exactly. More like man aren't supposed to show emotions.

[ChillaKilla]

That's what #1 fan was saying. Emotions are seen as "other" for men, and being emotional is viewed as inherently feminine, ergo, 'bad' for men. It's bulls***t

[TheWingedHourglass]

Yeah, It's pretty toxic on both ends of the spectrum. I'm not very emotional myself, and a lot of my friends seem unnerved by it; it apparently makes me seem like less of a girl.

Granted, I've never felt 100% female, but the stereotype is embarrassing at best and downright dangerous at worst.

[AVEN #1 fan]

Yeah, It's pretty toxic on both ends of the spectrum. I'm not very emotional myself, and a lot of my friends seem unnerved by it; it apparently makes me seem like less of a girl.

Granted, I've never felt 100% female, but the stereotype is embarrassing at best and downright dangerous at worst.

it's outdated as well.

[Cobie]

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[Finn.]

(...) As others on this thread have said, you have your physical sex, and then who you are in your head. 'who you are' is so utterly unique and personal as to defy the need for labels. (...)

Imagine a world where who you were didn't have to be linked to your body at all. In a world without 'gender', there might still be body dysphoria, but it wouldn't be 'a man trying to be a woman', it would be 'a male who doesn't like that body', up and until such a time as they were able to get the surgeries to make their body the way they wanted, at which point they would be either 'a female with a body they now like' or some half way point. Sex reassignment surgery, in such a world, would be no different than dying your hair, getting tattoos, liposuction. All just ways to change the way our bodies look or function to suit us better. There would be no 'trying to be something other than what you were born as', because people would grow up understanding that who you are and how you were born are utterly unconnected.

I agree, I talked about this theory in a different thread before. It's all a form of self-actualization. Be it gender reassignment surgery, name and pronouns change, or changes like tattoos and hair dye and whatever else. It is a form of self expression and leads to others treating us the way we prefer.

More and more I arrive at the notion, that we are all just born with these unique sets of traits and visions. And part of this is what we currently call gender, because it coincides with these stereotypes and boxes we created. And I guess with some people it adds up with the biology they have and how society treats them, and with others it doesn't.

With me it doesn't add up. I want people to treat and see me differently than what is "typical". Call it gender dysphoria, transgenderism, whatever. It's just a fact for me.

I can't tell you what male and female is. I know I am neither.

[Cobie]

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[cavalier080854]

Firstly, you have to look at this from the ages of the commentators. Gender as a construct is a recent idea. Though not so recent as it is now regarded as history. This construct ideology ignores biology completely. See Camille Paglia on this ideology, and why biology should be reintroduced to prevent further damage to the idea. I'm 61 and biology ruled absolutely. I'm male. Biology and construct ideologies are not compatible.

[TheWingedHourglass]

It does not bother me that my body is female, because I do not believe in gender - i.e. I do not think that having a female body implies a certain type of behavior.

I can be me, i.e. do my own behavior, regardless of the type of body I have - so I can just keep the one I have, exactly the way it is.

I do not want other people to be anything other than what they are. Just the same as I do not want to be anything other than what I am.

It does not bother me if other people cannot treat me and see me the way I want to be seen, that's up to them. I can treat myself and see myself the way I want to be seen - and that is enough for me.

I do not believe there is such a thing as 'typical', as I do not believe in gender.

I do not believe in changing my body in any way at all, because I respect my body. I want to allow it to be exactly what it is - the way it has grown naturally.

I do not want to impose my will on it and change it to reflect my ideas of how I feel.

I want to look after it as well as I can.

And therefore, I, for me, consider gender reassignment surgery a totally unnecessary health risk.

Firstly, you have to look at this from the ages of the commentators. Gender as a construct is a recent idea. Though not so recent as it is now regarded as history. This construct ideology ignores biology completely. See Camille Paglia on this ideology, and why biology should be reintroduced to prevent further damage to the idea. I'm 61 and biology ruled absolutely. I'm male. Biology and construct ideologies are not compatible.

I can see the point with both statements, but I feel like what is/isn't necessary to being comfortable with who you are is different in each case. Biologically, I am a girl, but I have no desire to change myself physically/pronoun-wise just because I don't feel or act 100% like my birth gender.

Another thing is about how others view gender. Interestingly, I've found that society's views on gender have shaped a lot of the way I feel about myself, both positively and negatively. Due to shifts in gender roles and the rise of body positivity, it has become more and more acceptable for people to look and act "outside of their gender" without full fledged transgenderism, which makes cases like mine more 'normal'. However, just because these constraints have loosened doesn't mean that they've disappeared completely. I still feel a lot of pressure to be feminine despite my acceptance of my identity. Heck, I've skipped every school dance just because I was afraid people would make fun of me for not wearing a dress.