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What is Male/Female?


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Horse Ham Radio

What is your definition of male/female gender and - for those who do not identify as such - what is it that makes you know or suspect that you aren't male or female?

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Artistofnoname

All one has to do is take off they're clothes (namely pants) and whatever they see is what they are.

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Horse Ham Radio

All one has to do is take off they're clothes (namely pants) and whatever they see is what they are.

I'm not talking biological sex here; I'm talking about gender like male/female/neutral and so on.

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I've never really understood that either. It would be easy to just lean on the stereotypes, like, males are assertive and females are caring, but well, it is probably just a feeling. "I feel female/male".

Don't ask me how anyone can feel it, though, because I don't know, I don't understand how anyone can feel like something in that way >.>

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Horse Ham Radio

I've never really understood that either. It would be easy to just lean on the stereotypes, like, males are assertive and females are caring, but well, it is probably just a feeling. "I feel female/male".

Don't ask me how anyone can feel it, though, because I don't know, I don't understand how anyone can feel like something in that way >.>

And there's no way possible to describe this feeling at all? Is it a positive feeling? Negative? Neutral? Is it continuous or does it come and go?

Sorry if these are getting a little personal. I'm just really curious.

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AVEN #1 fan

Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

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Horse Ham Radio

Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

Hm... this may be part of the solution but personally I think there is more to it than this. Take myself for example, I'm biologically male but I do definitely have a feminine side and I'm not all that masculine. I spent most of my childhood hanging out with girls because I simply had more in common with them than with boys. But I have always identified as male. I even recently put a lot of thought into this recently, and no, I still definitely am male. I just can't see myself as female at all, or as any non-male gender, even if in certain situations it is my feminine traits that dominate my behaviour, while in others it is my masculine. I think this echoes with a lot of people as I see many males who come across as quite central in terms of male/female, and the same for women, but whom identify only as their biological gender.

So I do feel like there is something else that perhaps goes alongside this.

EDIT:

To expand slightly, everyone I have met seems to be a mix of male/female traits. These traits dominate or recede according to the situation, but having these traits does not seem to determine gender by itself. I know some incredibly masculine women, and feminine guys, and they still identify with their biological sex.

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I've never really understood that either. It would be easy to just lean on the stereotypes, like, males are assertive and females are caring, but well, it is probably just a feeling. "I feel female/male".

Don't ask me how anyone can feel it, though, because I don't know, I don't understand how anyone can feel like something in that way >.>

And there's no way possible to describe this feeling at all? Is it a positive feeling? Negative? Neutral? Is it continuous or does it come and go?

Sorry if these are getting a little personal. I'm just really curious.

Dude, I'm genderless, I don't know! xD

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Horse Ham Radio

I've never really understood that either. It would be easy to just lean on the stereotypes, like, males are assertive and females are caring, but well, it is probably just a feeling. "I feel female/male".

Don't ask me how anyone can feel it, though, because I don't know, I don't understand how anyone can feel like something in that way >.>

And there's no way possible to describe this feeling at all? Is it a positive feeling? Negative? Neutral? Is it continuous or does it come and go?

Sorry if these are getting a little personal. I'm just really curious.

Dude, I'm genderless, I don't know! xD

Sorry! XD

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It's not really a feeling. It's more like what your mind believes. For me, being more masculine gender-wise myself, I can easily say that "I am female", but my mind doesn't really register to it to be truth. My mind goes through the same process as when I lie. Being a female sex-wise and being given a feminine name, my birth name doesn't feel like it's my name. The dresses my mother bought for me as a child didn't seem like they should have belonged to me, and I used to strongly reject wearing them.

I am much more comfortable saying "I am a boy". I am much more comfortable when people see me as a boy and treat me as they would any other boy. Being treated like a female is something very strange, uncomfortable, and foreign to me. It just doesn't seem right.

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AVEN #1 fan

Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

Hm... this may be part of the solution but personally I think there is more to it than this. Take myself for example, I'm biologically male but I do definitely have a feminine side and I'm not all that masculine. I spent most of my childhood hanging out with girls because I simply had more in common with them than with boys. But I have always identified as male. I even recently put a lot of thought into this recently, and no, I still definitely am male. I just can't see myself as female at all, or as any non-male gender, even if in certain situations it is my feminine traits that dominate my behaviour, while in others it is my masculine. I think this echoes with a lot of people as I see many males who come across as quite central in terms of male/female, and the same for women, but whom identify only as their biological gender.

So I do feel like there is something else that perhaps goes alongside this.

EDIT:

To expand slightly, everyone I have met seems to be a mix of male/female traits. These traits dominate or recede according to the situation, but having these traits does not seem to determine gender by itself. I know some incredibly masculine women, and feminine guys, and they still identify with their biological sex.

Oh well, for one to be male they must have more masculine traits than feminine traits, otherwise they are androgynous or feminine and can be considered a female or and androgyne.

Also, how you view yourself as matters a lot.

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Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

Hm... this may be part of the solution but personally I think there is more to it than this. Take myself for example, I'm biologically male but I do definitely have a feminine side and I'm not all that masculine. I spent most of my childhood hanging out with girls because I simply had more in common with them than with boys. But I have always identified as male. I even recently put a lot of thought into this recently, and no, I still definitely am male. I just can't see myself as female at all, or as any non-male gender, even if in certain situations it is my feminine traits that dominate my behaviour, while in others it is my masculine. I think this echoes with a lot of people as I see many males who come across as quite central in terms of male/female, and the same for women, but whom identify only as their biological gender.

So I do feel like there is something else that perhaps goes alongside this.

EDIT:

To expand slightly, everyone I have met seems to be a mix of male/female traits. These traits dominate or recede according to the situation, but having these traits does not seem to determine gender by itself. I know some incredibly masculine women, and feminine guys, and they still identify with their biological sex.

Oh well, for one to be male they must have more masculine traits than feminine traits, otherwise they are androgynous or feminine and can be considered a female or and androgyne.

Also, how you view yourself as matters a lot.

Actually I think how you view yourself should be all that matters. It doesn't matter how "masculine" or "feminine" you are. Those things are subjective anyway and therefore have no definitive traits or qualities.

A boy can like dolls and dresses and pink and all those "girly" things, and can most certainly still be a male. What he looks like, what he does, and what enjoys has nothing to do with that. If they think they are a male, then they are, and that's that.

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AVEN #1 fan

Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

Hm... this may be part of the solution but personally I think there is more to it than this. Take myself for example, I'm biologically male but I do definitely have a feminine side and I'm not all that masculine. I spent most of my childhood hanging out with girls because I simply had more in common with them than with boys. But I have always identified as male. I even recently put a lot of thought into this recently, and no, I still definitely am male. I just can't see myself as female at all, or as any non-male gender, even if in certain situations it is my feminine traits that dominate my behaviour, while in others it is my masculine. I think this echoes with a lot of people as I see many males who come across as quite central in terms of male/female, and the same for women, but whom identify only as their biological gender.

So I do feel like there is something else that perhaps goes alongside this.

EDIT:

To expand slightly, everyone I have met seems to be a mix of male/female traits. These traits dominate or recede according to the situation, but having these traits does not seem to determine gender by itself. I know some incredibly masculine women, and feminine guys, and they still identify with their biological sex.

Oh well, for one to be male they must have more masculine traits than feminine traits, otherwise they are androgynous or feminine and can be considered a female or and androgyne.

Also, how you view yourself as matters a lot.

Actually I think how you view yourself should be all that matters. It doesn't matter how "masculine" or "feminine" you are. Those things are subjective anyway and therefore have no definitive traits or qualities.

A boy can like dolls and dresses and pink and all those "girly" things, and can most certainly still be a male. What he looks like, what he does, and what enjoys has nothing to do with that. If they think they are a male, then they are, and that's that.

I think all he needs is a masculine personality. But seriously if i saw a dude with a dress on the street i would assume it's a transgirl.
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Queen of Wonderland

I think it varies from person to person, its not just one specific thing.

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Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

Hm... this may be part of the solution but personally I think there is more to it than this. Take myself for example, I'm biologically male but I do definitely have a feminine side and I'm not all that masculine. I spent most of my childhood hanging out with girls because I simply had more in common with them than with boys. But I have always identified as male. I even recently put a lot of thought into this recently, and no, I still definitely am male. I just can't see myself as female at all, or as any non-male gender, even if in certain situations it is my feminine traits that dominate my behaviour, while in others it is my masculine. I think this echoes with a lot of people as I see many males who come across as quite central in terms of male/female, and the same for women, but whom identify only as their biological gender.

So I do feel like there is something else that perhaps goes alongside this.

EDIT:

To expand slightly, everyone I have met seems to be a mix of male/female traits. These traits dominate or recede according to the situation, but having these traits does not seem to determine gender by itself. I know some incredibly masculine women, and feminine guys, and they still identify with their biological sex.

Oh well, for one to be male they must have more masculine traits than feminine traits, otherwise they are androgynous or feminine and can be considered a female or and androgyne.

Also, how you view yourself as matters a lot.

Actually I think how you view yourself should be all that matters. It doesn't matter how "masculine" or "feminine" you are. Those things are subjective anyway and therefore have no definitive traits or qualities.

A boy can like dolls and dresses and pink and all those "girly" things, and can most certainly still be a male. What he looks like, what he does, and what enjoys has nothing to do with that. If they think they are a male, then they are, and that's that.

I think all he needs is a masculine personality. But seriously if i saw a dude with a dress on the street i would assume it's a transgirl.

I am a boy who likes sweets, pretty cakes, and dainty smelling body wash and perfume. I hate working out and muscles and I'm not really into sports. While I don't wear dresses I love to design frilly dresses and skirts. Despite all of these things, I hate being recognized as a female and for as long as I could remember I identified as a boy. Does that make me any less of a boy? Hell no.

You shouldn't assume that, it's stereotyping. A boy can wear a dress and still be a boy. If I approached a man wearing a dress on the street, asked him what his gender is, and he said "I'm a boy", then he is a boy, and that's the end of it.

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The simple answer would be that they are simply binary genders and sexes.

(content warning)

The long answer is somewhat complex. My sex is female (as far as I know) but what I feel doesn't reflect that. I look in the mirror and I see things missing and things that aren't supposed to be there. Sometimes I get the ol' "phantom limb" sensation. Sometimes when I shower my own body makes me nauseous, sometimes I want to crawl out of my skin. When I dream I am male bodied, when I play video games I play a male character, as a child I preferred masculine clothes and when I saw another boy naked for the first time (I was about 7) I wondered what happened to 'my parts', wondered if they had fallen off or I had gotten into a horrible accident after birth. When I was called "girly" I got upset, felt insulted. When I got my period I was horrified; despite the number of books I had read I never thought "wow, that'll happen to me". I spent the first few days depressed and on the couch, curled in a ball, wouldn't eat or anything. When my step-mom pointed out I had breasts I felt humiliated and disgusted.

Every inkling, every developmental step, every doctor's visit, every "she", every "daughter", every bra bought, every "you'd look great in this dress", every "you're a beautiful woman", all of it, pure hell.

But I tried so hard. I tried so hard to be the best girl I could be, I overcompensated to a ridiculous point, feigned a smile because I wanted to be what my family wanted.

It took years for me to be honest with myself.

I'm not sure what male means in the form of words....but I can tell you that what I am.

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AVEN #1 fan

Males have more masculine traits (body, personality, emotional, behavior, etc) in common and females have feminine traits in common.

Androgynes have a mix of both traits simultaneously (so they don't hit enough masculinity to be called male, nor enough femininity to be called females, they're simply ambiguous).

Neutrois people doesn't have or try not to have any trait.

Hm... this may be part of the solution but personally I think there is more to it than this. Take myself for example, I'm biologically male but I do definitely have a feminine side and I'm not all that masculine. I spent most of my childhood hanging out with girls because I simply had more in common with them than with boys. But I have always identified as male. I even recently put a lot of thought into this recently, and no, I still definitely am male. I just can't see myself as female at all, or as any non-male gender, even if in certain situations it is my feminine traits that dominate my behaviour, while in others it is my masculine. I think this echoes with a lot of people as I see many males who come across as quite central in terms of male/female, and the same for women, but whom identify only as their biological gender.

So I do feel like there is something else that perhaps goes alongside this.

EDIT:

To expand slightly, everyone I have met seems to be a mix of male/female traits. These traits dominate or recede according to the situation, but having these traits does not seem to determine gender by itself. I know some incredibly masculine women, and feminine guys, and they still identify with their biological sex.

Oh well, for one to be male they must have more masculine traits than feminine traits, otherwise they are androgynous or feminine and can be considered a female or and androgyne.

Also, how you view yourself as matters a lot.

Actually I think how you view yourself should be all that matters. It doesn't matter how "masculine" or "feminine" you are. Those things are subjective anyway and therefore have no definitive traits or qualities.

A boy can like dolls and dresses and pink and all those "girly" things, and can most certainly still be a male. What he looks like, what he does, and what enjoys has nothing to do with that. If they think they are a male, then they are, and that's that.

I think all he needs is a masculine personality. But seriously if i saw a dude with a dress on the street i would assume it's a transgirl.

I am a boy who likes sweets, pretty cakes, and dainty smelling body wash and perfume. I hate working out and muscles and I'm not really into sports. While I don't wear dresses I love to design frilly dresses and skirts. Despite all of these things, I hate being recognized as a female and for as long as I could remember I identified as a boy. Does that make me any less of a boy? Hell no.

You shouldn't assume that, it's stereotyping. A boy can wear a dress and still be a boy. If I approached a man wearing a dress on the street, asked him what his gender is, and he said "I'm a boy", then he is a boy, and that's the end of it.

Oh well, a boy who wears dresses is either a crossdresser or a transvestite.
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ChillaKilla

No. A boy who wears a dress is a boy who likes dresses. Clothes have no gender. Women who wear pants are still women and vice versa for men who like skirts and dresses.

That's a very narrow mindset you have, where you have to label someone who doesn't 100% conform to their gender roles and expectations as something "other".

And crossdresser and transvestite mean the exact same thing.

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This is maybe not completely in Line with the question. But i have to ask a question that i have wonderd about for a while: its ther nonbinery versions for the words son/daughter husband/wife ect?

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ChillaKilla

Kimpen:

For son or daughter, "child" or "kid"

For husband/wife, "spouse" or "partner"

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Kimpen:

For son or daughter, "child" or "kid"

For husband/wife, "spouse" or "partner"

So it wasn't more complicated then that.

It makes sense. Thank you

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"Male" and "female" don't really exist beyond social construct. We are treated certain ways based on our gender, in all aspects of life (work, family, relationships, parenting, etc). I feel that male/female is just a feeling beyond that, and we all have our own definitions for what is and isn't female/male.

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Basically, you get born and some adults tell you which gender you are and if you don't mind too much you end up being that gender for life. That is all. There is no mythical feeling about what it feels like to be male or female.

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ChillaKilla

I disagree, henshin. Have you heard of that case of a boy who during infancy underwent a circumcision, but it was botched, and he was given a vaginoplasty and not told? He had crippling dysphoria and eventually committed suicide after he found out. So, yeah, gender exists.

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I disagree, henshin. Have you heard of that case of a boy who during infancy underwent a circumcision, but it was botched, and he was given a vaginoplasty and not told? He had crippling dysphoria and eventually committed suicide after he found out. So, yeah, gender exists.

I don't think there's an intrinsic feeling of "male" or "female", but there is something in relation to one's body.

In the case of the kid you mentioned (wasn't his name David?), clearly he did have an issue with being forced to be female. It could've gone the other way though, and I'm sure there are people who've had their sex "changed" when they're young and they don't have an issue with it/ don't think anything of it.

I agree with henshin, in that the vast majority of people are told (or assume) that their gender is ____ and that's fine. The minority take issue with it (obviously not consciously).

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AVEN #1 fan

I disagree, henshin. Have you heard of that case of a boy who during infancy underwent a circumcision, but it was botched, and he was given a vaginoplasty and not told? He had crippling dysphoria and eventually committed suicide after he found out. So, yeah, gender exists.

Wasn't that kid who went to a crazy therapist that used to "experiment" on aka torture transsexuals and intersex? I wonder how he wasn't in jail since the start.

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ChillaKilla

I disagree, henshin. Have you heard of that case of a boy who during infancy underwent a circumcision, but it was botched, and he was given a vaginoplasty and not told? He had crippling dysphoria and eventually committed suicide after he found out. So, yeah, gender exists.

Wasn't that kid who went to a crazy therapist that used to "experiment" on aka torture transsexuals and intersex? I wonder how he wasn't in jail since the start.

Yep. And it's tragically unfortunate that it happened, but some good did come of it, recognizing that gender can be innate and strongly felt. Not always, but can be.

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Basically, you get born and some adults tell you which gender you are and if you don't mind too much you end up being that gender for life. That is all. There is no mythical feeling about what it feels like to be male or female.

Umm no.. I was TOLD I was a girl when I got caught standing up to pee around 3 years old. I spent the next 30 years of my life feeling off in relation to other females- I couldn't tell you WHAT, but they have something that I do not have. And my body definitely told me something wasn't right in my first and only sexual relationship to date (and nope, it wasn't because I was ace- my brain and my body don't align). If you aren't questioning your gender it's because you're cis and don't feel any discord in relation to it..

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