Androgynous DMAB styles + workout question

[anjesa]

For a while now I've been trying to think how I could dress a bit more androgynously or feminine as a designated male non-binary person. I've tried to search internet for some style ideas, but have found very little information aimed towards DmAB non-binary persons... So I was wondering if any of you people here had any ideas for such resources? I'd especially appreciate some blogs or sites with pictures. Also I'd like if those were "regular" people, not models.

Then another thing: do any of you have some ideas for work-out or exercises to get a bit more feminine body without hormones? I've always hated work-out and gym exercises so I know absolutely nothing about this kind of things. Things I'd especially like to change are my stomach/waist and hips/butt. I have some extra in my stomach so getting a bit smaller (though not really narrower because of bone structure) waist would be nice. Also I'd like to get a bit larger and more feminine butt. One thing I'm also confused about is that when it's said that hips/waist ratio is different for males and females, does that mean actual width viewn from front or circumference? Since I think that latter would be much easier to change than former.

[ChillaKilla]

I found a good forum thread for AMAB androgynous clothing!: http://bit.ly/29rX0Gg Looking in women's Long & Tall sections is a great idea someone mentioned there.

As for exercises: squats, lunges and leg presses! They'll give you bigger thighs and increase gluteal muscle size, creating the illusion of a bigger waist. For stomach reduction, any number of core workouts like sit ups, crunches, and flutter kicks can help you get toned without overly flattening.

Hope this helps!

[Heart]

It means circumference when talking about wais to hip ratios unfortunately. However, that doesn't mean you can't do something about it.

As for workouts, I'd suggest avoiding arm workouts. You'll build up arm and shoulder muscles more easily than female bodies because of your testosterone. As Chilla said, focus on the lower half of your body. Also, if you really want more feminine curves, then there are items of clothing that can help, like breast forms (essentially, fake breasts that will make your chest look feminine). I hope one of the talented AMAB members that can transform themselves into AFAB-looking folks will join us here, because they have a lot of advice...

Oh, and I remember one more thing! If you have a 5 o'clock shadow (ie a little bristle or darrkness on your chin from your beard), and you want to hide it, I've heard that orange make up does wonders for that. Normal foundation will hide it to the casual observer, but a camera will still pick up the darker look because of the roots of the beard hairs in your chin. So smudging in some orange make up below the foundation will cancel this effect and hide the roots of your face hair. Also, never underestimate contouring. It can transform a masculine face into an extremely feminine one, or anywhere in between. Check out youtube tutorials for that and don't get discouraged if it takes a lot of practice; we all need to learn somehow, so practice at home until you have something you're happy with, and expect it to just take time.

I'd also recommend looking at drag queen websites for other resources on how to look more feminine with an AMAB body. They may not be genderqueer themselves, but man are they good at what they do!

[butterflydreams]

I like to think that cis women would be jealous of me because of how I can cheat the size of bottoms. Most women's clothing has two measurements, waist and hips. I've found that even though I have a surprisingly hourglass figure, it's never quite as stark as the waist/hip ratio on clothes. But you can use this to your advantage. Just shoot for being somewhere in the middle of the measurements. Generally this means for bottoms, you can size down. Anyway, that's just a tip.

When it comes to shaving, as Heart said, you can cover it with foundation or something. I've found that it really is just photos where it's a problem. A good shave and a little bit of coverup will help a lot regardless though. I've been doing laser on my face to remove facial hair permanantly since it's such a big cause of dysphoria for me. There's not really a reason you couldn't do that if you wanted to. But if you don't want to, try using a shave gel bar instead of shaving cream or gel. I have a lot less hair left, but it lets you get really close, and is very gentle on your face.

There isn't anything quite as powerful as hormones, but I've heard that you can naturally lower/raise hormone levels with certain dietary choices. Soy (tofu especially) I've heard suppresses testosterone. A body builder guy I know calls tofu "boob cakes" because in theory, if you ate enough of it often enough, you might actually have very small breast growth.

You can also do breast forms, as Heart mentioned, but if you want even more subtle, you could just do a padded bra.

Oh, and how could I forget, my favorite thing I did for a while because it's so subtle...mascara. You can do it so it's minimally noticeable, but it's one of those things that people pick up on and might go a long way to highlighting your femininity.

Good luck! I wish I had more specifics for you. I tend to just wing a lot of this stuff, myself.

[ChillaKilla]

Seconded what Heart said. Orange will cancel out the bluish tint of hair follicles under your skin, and apply regular concealer/foundation after that pretty heavily.

[anjesa]

Thanks for your replies all :) I think I should clarify my situation a bit, though. I'm still rather confused and unsure about my gender. All I know is that I'm not like most males, I'm much more feminine. For example, I have no idea if I actually want HRT or not. Currently I dress and present as a pretty ordinaray males, but I'd like to experiment and try some other kinds of styles. However I have little idea what I'd like to look like, hence I asked if anyone knew picture galleries or blogs with pics of DMAB non-binary people. Also I have a disadvantage that I live with my parents but I'm not out to them... I really hope to rent my own apartment soon, but it has proven to be very difficult to find one...

As for exercises: squats, lunges and leg presses! They'll give you bigger thighs and increase gluteal muscle size, creating the illusion of a bigger waist. For stomach reduction, any number of core workouts like sit ups, crunches, and flutter kicks can help you get toned without overly flattening.

Thanks :) Any tips about how many repeats, how many times a week etc...? Like I said, I know very little about this topic. I should also mention that going to a gym is not an option for me because of my dysphoria and social anxiety.

Oh, and I remember one more thing! If you have a 5 o'clock shadow (ie a little bristle or darrkness on your chin from your beard), and you want to hide it, I've heard that orange make up does wonders for that. Normal foundation will hide it to the casual observer, but a camera will still pick up the darker look because of the roots of the beard hairs in your chin. So smudging in some orange make up below the foundation will cancel this effect and hide the roots of your face hair. Also, never underestimate contouring. It can transform a masculine face into an extremely feminine one, or anywhere in between. Check out youtube tutorials for that and don't get discouraged if it takes a lot of practice; we all need to learn somehow, so practice at home until you have something you're happy with, and expect it to just take time.

Oh, and how could I forget, my favorite thing I did for a while because it's so subtle...mascara. You can do it so it's minimally noticeable, but it's one of those things that people pick up on and might go a long way to highlighting your femininity.

I've never tried make-up but I guess I'll try when I someday get a chance... I just somehow tend to get so easily discouraged in this kind of things, when they are related to gender issues :( Like, I've already had enough distress because of my gender issues, I don't need any more in form of failures to do make-up, do my hair etc...

There isn't anything quite as powerful as hormones, but I've heard that you can naturally lower/raise hormone levels with certain dietary choices. Soy (tofu especially) I've heard suppresses testosterone. A body builder guy I know calls tofu "boob cakes" because in theory, if you ate enough of it often enough, you might actually have very small breast growth.

I've heard that too, but have also heard that it's just a myth people use to rationalize why they can't eat soy... However I eat moderate amounts of soy and tofu already for other reaons, it'd be a nice bonus if they actually lowered my testosterone level :P

When it comes to shaving, as Heart said, you can cover it with foundation or something. I've found that it really is just photos where it's a problem. A good shave and a little bit of coverup will help a lot regardless though. I've been doing laser on my face to remove facial hair permanantly since it's such a big cause of dysphoria for me. There's not really a reason you couldn't do that if you wanted to. But if you don't want to, try using a shave gel bar instead of shaving cream or gel. I have a lot less hair left, but it lets you get really close, and is very gentle on your face.

Never even heard of thing called shave gel bar :) I actually sometimes even like to let my facial hair to grow a bit (having some fluidity in my gender), it doesn't give me much dysphoria. Just wish that it grew slowly enough for that 5 o'clock shadow not to appear... :|

You can also do breast forms, as Heart mentioned, but if you want even more subtle, you could just do a padded bra.

Well, maybe at some point? Though I have rather mixed feelings about wearing breast forms. But you mentioning padded bra reminded me that I should try wearing some women's underwear. As I said I'm not out to anyone yet, so maybe female underwear would be a good way to make myself feel a little better before I'm ready to come out or go out looking more feminine :)

[Heart]

Exploring different presentations is a great way to explore how you feel about gender ^_^

Of course, we have all given a whole load of suggestions, so feel free to pick and choose. Different things will do it for different people, and sometimes you never know until you try!

[Kimmie.]

If it isn't too much to ask I will look in to some of these tips my self. And more exactly the workout tips. And as Anjesa asked is there a way to that without going to a gym for similar reasons. I am a Cis-male but I have slowly started to realize that want look more feminine.

[Heart]

Pretty much anything you could do at a gym, you can do at home, especially if your goal is not huge muscles but rather a more feminine shape. Youtube is great for tutorials on certain exercises and movements, especially if you already know which bits of you you want bigger or smaller.

Just be safe. Make sure you find a tutorial that talks about posture and such, and bonus points if it explicitly talks safety.

[Kimmie.]

Ok first of sorry Anjesa for hijacking the thread. but I have started to question my gender more from time to time. Was try to do some fake cleavage this morning. And when I looked down and saw what I saw it felt right and something that should be there. It was confusing because I am somewhat comfortable in my body but I can't let go of the feeling that something is missing. I know that this doesn't have to mean a thing. And once again I am so happy what this site have done for me. You have all helped me realize so much of myself and that I am not that weird.

[Guest]

Ok, so i'm just going to go on a rant here:

...

Here we go.

So with androgynous hair styles, hair with bangs that covers the side of your cheeks, works well, with hair you might want to try growing your hair longer, If you do here are some things you should know.

. Don't tie up your hair everyday, and try to alternate where you tie it from.

. You don't need to shampoo and condition -or even wash- your hair everyday, let it do it's own thing.

. (If your taking proper care of your hair) you don't need to brush it twice everyday, once a day is enough.

. When it comes to brushes I reccomend something like a sisal brush (doesn't pull out hair).

. Lastly I reccomend you check out the water only method, and the no water method (these are the methods I use to wash my hair, Basically I washed my hair once with apple cider vinegar, and then baking soda, (this is to get all of the chemicals like silicon out of your hair) and after that I just washed my hair with cold water, now I barely ever wash my hair with water and just let it do it's own thing, and it works pretty well).

Now onto shaving.

when you shave you make sure you have the following:

A shaving razor with at least three blades, and a strong and sturdy connection between the handle and the razors. (I reccommend shopping in the "womans" aisle because the quality is usually higher).

A decent quality shaving cream (nothing petroleum based, idealy should be made on some sort of oil, the shaving cream I use is made out of coconut cream, which also ban actually be used as an alternative shaving cream from what I hear, a good way to test the quality of the shaving cream is to rinse it up into a lather, if it is high quality and it should be a thick lather).

And lastly a shaving cream brush.

If you shaving your face you can use something like a hand towel to warm up your face, basically you soak it in hot water then put it on your face to up your pores and to break down the hair follicles that you'll be shaving. Or you can just splash hot water or your face. (not like boiling hot though other wise you won't have a face for long!).

then of course you get the shaving brush and you run it over hot water, then you apply shaving cream and apply it over your face in a clock wise motion until your face if covered in shaving cream, then you get your razor, and run it over hot water before and during your shave.

Make sure that when your shaving that you go with the grain!

if you want to have a close shave (where your skin feel completely hairless) you can shave in the opposite direction of the grain, of course you must rinse off the face with hot water and re-lather, then do the exact same but just against the grain.

After you shave make sure splash your face with hot water, this is especially important when close shaving as it helps to prevent in grown hairs; in grown hairs can turn into cysts that needs surgery leaving a permanent scar, so it's important not to skip this step.

Also just so you know you can apply this to any other area of the body as well with regards to shaving.

Now let's talk about clothing:

when it comes to clothing if you want to try styles that your barred from because you can't afford to be out yet, (my condolonces) there is a number of ways you can get clothing without potentially outing yourself.

The easiest way is to buy clothes online, you can do this via a visa card, (all you have to do is get a bank account, get a visa card, and then use that to buy stuff online.) pretty much everywhere online accepts visas and a site can't withdraw more money than is in your account, also the fee for it is only something like 1.50 a month.

Next there is paypal, paypal is nice because using paypal, you can make purchases of over 100$ (which you can't with a visa) however I would be careful with paypal, as their customer service is TERRIBLE!!!

Also you can of course just learn to sew and make whatever you want! plus learning to sew will help you to get a better understanding of your personal style as you'll develop a greater understanding of clothing in general.

With exercise, by far the best exercise for lower testosterone and body fat is cycling!

take a look at lance armstrong, he was actually taking testosterone while he was cycling, because cycling made his testosterone levels so low! I mean far lower than the average amab person, the average test levels are usually said to be between 250-1000, Some cyclists have testosterone levels as low 137, to even less than 100.

Also when it comes to exercising there are somethings you should know.

Exercising your arms won't (neccesarily) burn fat from your arms.

Same goes for every other part of your body.

no matter where you exercise your body will burn fat from the same place.

If you do want to change your fat distribution you can either do waist training (which is semi-permanent)

or take hormones (which is as permanent as the duration you take the hormones for).

(Also when it comes to burning fat I recommend, a high carbohydrate, low low protein diet, plenty of fruit in the morning for breakfast, my personaly staple is rice,).

When it comes to hip enlargement I've heard there are surgeries the can do that, you may also want to check out certain yoga poses that are supposed to open up the hips, (But remember when stretching you should always warm up first)

Other things you might want to try are things like lip balm (you can also put it on your eyelashes so your eyelashes grow, worth a shot).

Wearing Jewellery.

and wearing clothing that smooths over muscles contours like skinny jeans, also extremely oversized baggy jumpers are nice.

Also since you asked here's a blog that I run specifically for amab Non-binary people.

http://amabnonbinaryskickinback.tumblr.com/

If you want you can leave an ask and I'll ask the people who follow my blog if they have any advice.

Also while I'm at it I'll mention that as far as hrt goes, it is possible to get hormones without a doctor prescription though I wouldn't reccommend it.

[daveb]

For an androgynous look coming from a DMAB starting point I would suggest things like more fitted clothes, such as skinny jeans, shirts from the women's department (like women's fitted t-shirts), slimmer/slighter shoes (at least not big or clunky), accessories (jewelry, scarves, belts, etc.). You can experiment and build from just a few items if you like. Maybe grow your hair longer and try some ways to have it styled and ways to wear it (as long as you aren't losing your hair like I am :( ).

As far as exercise, I agree that avoiding exercises that would bulk up your arms and upper body and working on legs, along with working on flexibility and waist slimming are your best bets.

Then you can always take things more towards the feminine side if you like. :)

Best wishes!

[anjesa]

Thanks for your suggestions all :)

I've started doing some exercises regularly now, but have taken it quite easy at start. I've tried to concentrate on my butt and stomach, but is there some other areas I should consider working on...?

I currently have a shoulder-length blonde hair, though it's unfortunately in a rather bad shape. I'm also afraid of hair loss because I know it's most likely in my genes :(

Also jewelry is a good idea I hadn't thought of ^_^

It's just so hard for me to experiment since I'm not out to my family yet and I don't have good friends I could come out to. Kinda feels I'm stuck in a closet and it's very distressing. If anyone had good tips about how to make myself feel even a little bit better I'd really like to hear...

[Kimmie.]

What kind of exercises are you doing more specific? Any tips?

[daveb]

For exercise, toning your legs and especially building up your thighs could help. If you can do it without making them look overly muscular. I did a lot of bicycling in my younger days and I think my legs are one of my best features when dressing "en femme" (I get compliments on them at any rate).

A couple of things you could do that no one else would have to see or know about: undergarments (as long as you have a way to wash them without anyone else seeing), painting your toenails (assuming you can keep them covered with socks and/or shoes whenever other people might see your feet). And if you can find some clothing items and accessories from the women's department that aren't too overtly feminine maybe that could help. I understand about being clandestine at first. Hopefully you will eventually get to a place you can be a little more open about it (even if that's just with a few friends or something).

[Kimmie.]

For exercise, toning your legs and especially building up your thighs could help. If you can do it without making them look overly muscular. I did a lot of bicycling in my younger days and I think my legs are one of my best features when dressing "en femme" (I get compliments on them at any rate).

So bicycling that is something i like to do anyway nice.

[anjesa]

What kind of exercises are you doing more specific? Any tips?

As suggested in this thread, mostly squats, lunges and sit ups.

A couple of things you could do that no one else would have to see or know about: undergarments (as long as you have a way to wash them without anyone else seeing).

Guess I could hand wash them, I'm just afraid I'd get very paranoid fearing my parents would find them somehow... Is there some specific type of underwear that tends to fit assigned males better than others, or any other tips for buying women's underwear?

And if you can find some clothing items and accessories from the women's department that aren't too overtly feminine maybe that could help.

Maybe, if I can get the courage to go shopping to women's section... But some bracelets or hair accessories could be nice, though I still feel I'd have to hide them from my parents...

[Aaronisak]

Never even heard of thing called shave gel bar :) I actually sometimes even like to let my facial hair to grow a bit (having some fluidity in my gender), it doesn't give me much dysphoria. Just wish that it grew slowly enough for that 5 o'clock shadow not to appear... :|

I recommend laser hair removal. Im getting those, also buy anti-histamine pills and take them an hour before going just in case you might get hives/swell a bit after. You need to go like 8 times to be completely rid of the hair forever if ur male i think. But if you only go 4-5 times, it will just drastically slow down the time they grow. It may take from a month to 2 months to grow :D

[Aaronisak]

Just do it :3 It might be scary, but in my opinion, the only bad thing that happens when i shop in the womens section is that i get nervous and start blushing a lot and sweating a little. Besides that, nobody cares and its all in ur head <3

[Aaronisak]

U could try using spanx aswell, idk how it affects the male genitals XDDD But im gonna try it some day anyway. U can try making pads for a little more hip, but honestly it always feels the best when they are your own.

Just keep doing leg day at the gym. Warning though, if you do leg day you will gain a lot of muscle there and take it from my experience, u will get thick legs and skinny jeans will look bad on you and they will give you a bulge. So unless u want a curvy feminine figure, i suggest doing only cardio. And then when u feel like ur body is feminine enough, try wearing baggy sweaters and shirts.

When it comes to fashion, depending on how femine you want to go, you could just wear dresses and skirts and take fashion advice from Jayden Smith or go full on cross dressing

(Sorry, idk if theres a better word for it, so i hope i didnt offend anyone) If you just want to look in the middle, try childish clothes. Cute shorts, socks that reach just below the knee, and just try cute things :)

[Crystalia]

U could try using spanx aswell, idk how it affects the male genitals XDDD But im gonna try it some day anyway. U can try making pads for a little more hip, but honestly it always feels the best when they are your own.

I'd thought about getting a gaff, but they tend to be a bit more pricey than control top underwear. Haven't tried Spanx brand specifically, but Maidenform seems to do a fairly good job of hiding things as long as I'm not wearing anything form fitting. I have an old pair of spandex shorts that, paired with the Maidenform, does a great job of concealing. Just be warned, it's a tight combination.

[Aaronisak]

U could try using spanx aswell, idk how it affects the male genitals XDDD But im gonna try it some day anyway. U can try making pads for a little more hip, but honestly it always feels the best when they are your own.

I'd thought about getting a gaff, but they tend to be a bit more pricey than control top underwear. Haven't tried Spanx brand specifically, but Maidenform seems to do a fairly good job of hiding things as long as I'm not wearing anything form fitting. I have an old pair of spandex shorts that, paired with the Maidenform, does a great job of concealing. Just be warned, it's a tight combination.

Yeah. Well its very good to experiment and see what suits you. Im very glad i found this forum.

[Kimmie.]

I tried some more crossdressing to day and what i saw i. The mirror almost made Me cry it looked and felt so right. I can't imagine how i will feel when i will get the courage to try some makeup to.

I have been shaving my bodyhair now for a month and love how it feels and look. I just need to get rid of this stomach to.

I still identify my self as male But with a quite strong feminine side.

And Anjesa how old are you and with that i mean when will you be able to move out so you can be your self? Maybe you could talk your parents on how they feel about genders roles(if you already haven't)and so on, so maybe you can get a picture on how they will react if you started present you self as you whant to. I do realize that this is easy for Me to say. But be breave.

[anjesa]

Control underwear or shaping underwear could be worth trying. I'm rather repulsed about the idea of tucking, so I'd really like some other alternatives. Anyone else got experiences about this?

And Anjesa how old are you and with that i mean when will you be able to move out so you can be your self? Maybe you could talk your parents on how they feel about genders roles(if you already haven't)and so on, so maybe you can get a picture on how they will react if you started present you self as you whant to. I do realize that this is easy for Me to say. But be breave.

I'm in my early twenties. It's really all about money, finding reasonably priced apartments is very difficult where I live.

[Kimmie.]

Ok that sucks. I had the luck that the property owner that i rent off has a system that people that allready rent a apartment of them has priority in the cue list. So when my mom moved together with her husband i got a apartment quit fast. That is one of the benefits to live in smaller town. Finding a job was another story.

[scarletlatitude]

OP - remember that there are lots of skinny girls too, who don't have much of a shape. If you find the right clothes they can give you the appearance of a more female body. Like if you find a dress with a defined waist and a flowy curvy skirt part, it could give the allusion that you have wider hips.

Edit: something like this

[Heart]

Wow, that dress is gorgeous!