What is really considered asexual?

[Mike_Rophone]

I just wanted to take a poll to see what others think. I'm mostly positive the poll is doesn't show others what you say. Also, if you consider questions 2,3 and 4 asexual, I'd appreciate hearing why. I have no ide yet, so I would like to hear some reasoning. Thanks!

[Guest]

Can't reduce that to simple yes/no binaries, sorry.

1) Libido doesn't invalidate asexuality in the least.

=> Answer: Definite Yes

2) Depends on whether you just want to look at them and masturbate (still asexual), or actually sexually interact with them (not asexual). Simply having a sex/gender preference attached to your arousal/libido does not invalidate asexuality.

=> Answer: Yes, in the way you edited the question in the poll

3) Seeking out partnered sex for its own sake/for enjoyment does invalidate asexuality. Liking/enjoying partnered sex, in itself, does not invalidate asexuality. There are some shades of grey in between those.

=> Answer: Yes, with some reservations

4) Mutual masturbation is a form of partnered sex => invalidates asexuality. The other things you mentioned aren't partnered sex => does not invalidate asexuality.

=> Answer: Yes, with some reservations

5) Yes. We need to reduce the label flood and boil it back to more essential levels.

EDIT, as described below in post #21

Edited July 9, 2016 by Guest

[WinterWanderer]

I agree with Mysticus on this.

I don't think we necessarily have too many labels, though. I think they're just over-used.

[Star Bit]

1) Depends on what you mean by libido.

If you mean a desire to masturbate, then yes, if it's a desire to have sex with others, then no.

2) And can you reword the second question, it was hard to understand.

3) Also depends; does the person also desire sex? An ace can enjoy sex and obviously not seek it out, where as a sexual person can enjoy sex and be indifferent of satisfying their desires.

[Busrider]

I think there is too much cramped in question 4 to keep it usable.

I agree with Mysticus.

[Mike_Rophone]

Can't reduce that to simple yes/no binaries, sorry.

1) Libido doesn't invalidate asexuality in the least.

2) Depends on whether you just want to look at them and masturbate (still asexual), or actually sexually interact with them (not asexual). Simply having a sex/gender preference attached to your arousal/libido does not invalidate asexuality.

3) Seeking out partnered sex for its own sake/for enjoyment does invalidate asexuality. Liking/enjoying partnered sex, in itself, does not invalidate asexuality. There are some shades of grey in between those.

4) Mutual masturbation is a form of partnered sex => invalidates asexuality. The other things you mentioned aren't partnered sex => does not invalidate asexuality.

5) Yes. We need to reduce the label flood and boil it back to more essential levels.

Thanks for going through and explaining!

I agree with Mysticus on this.

I don't think we necessarily have too many labels, though. I think they're just over-used.

I may not be fully awake, but what do you mean by over-used? Too many people use them, or when describing themselves, they use it too much?

Depends on what you mean by libido.

If you mean a desire to masturbate, then yes, if it's a desire to have sex with others, then no.

And can you reword the second question, it was hard to understand.

#3 also depends; does the person also desire sex? An ace can enjoy sex and obviously not seek it out, where as a sexual person can enjoy sex and be indifferent of satisfying their desires.

Sorry for the confusion. Number 3 might be libido, I'm not completely sure of the definition of what is considered libido. If an ace were to look at someone and say 'They have a nice body, I want to masturbate now' is that libido? Also, no, they only like it. I will try to update the questions so they make more sense.

I think there is too much cramped in question 4 to keep it usable.

I agree with Mysticus.

Thanks for the input, I'll try to male sense out of it.

[Star Bit]

Libido is the desire to pursue any form of sexual pleasure (masturbation or sex)

And as in "they have a nice body, I'm getting aroused and want to masturbate"? But Mysticus already asnwered this in their 2) answer.

Basically the only requirement to be sexual is to desire sex with someone (mentally or physically) or to find them sexually alluring, and anything else is possible for an asexual past that.

[binary suns]

1) "libido"

libido is a word asexuals have claimed to mean asexual horniness, basically. asexuals differentiate libido from sex drive, saying that sex drive is like libido that involves or leads to sexual desire and/or sexual attraction. libido is sex drive void of those feelings, just a need for masturbation and/or orgasm.

outside the ace community, most words like libido or even horniness have heavy sexual implications. There is a long history of humankind not bothering to separate sex from eroticism or romanticism.

2) "masturbating towards a specific person"

if a person feels aroused by another person specifically and this feeling reoccurs, that can be a strong sign of sexual attraction.

so this is not an easy sign to just group one way or the other. some asexuals do look at porn and enjoy that. an asexual person would in some way disconnect themselves from the "target" in some way. if the target of arousal is a fictional character, this is one way an asexual would disconnect. another way would be to deliberately leave themselves out of the scene, even perhaps taking the point of view of an imaginary character or a faceless person.

if they are imagining their own self having sex with another real person, then they are either grey or sexual. if they feel a desire to have sex with person it is the same, or if they want to court the person with sexual intent.

do note, that an asexual might voluntarily try to summon up a sexual scene between themselves and another person, and masturbate to it to explore their feelings. this person is basically questioning their orientation, to be determined.

3) "liking sex but not seeking it out"

The meaning of this phrase is very unreliable. The word "like" has a very wide application of meaning. The word "seek" is very nonspecific. Additionally, seeking out sex could be done with intentions of experimentation or pregnancy, or might be done by someone unaware of their true feelings.

4) "wanting some form of physical contact without it becoming sex"

This is also very nonspecific. Cuddling and hugs are physical contact. Kissing is physical contact. Caressing a person's breasts while becoming aroused because of it, is physical contact.

And what is sex? Is sex penetration of any orifice? Is sex any form of genital play? Is sex any form of physical interaction that involves arousal? Is cyber sex or phone sex sex? All of these levels of "what counts as sex" are held by different people. So saying "not wanting sex" is a very unreliable measure for sexuality.

[Star Bit]

(there is no word for strictly desiring to masturbate, so we have to use the dual meaning word libido)

And i would more so say that directed sexual arousal is "secondary sexual attraction", if anything. But misleadingly, this does not actually mean it's sexual attraction just like having the secondary sex characteristic of breasts doesn't mean someone's down stairs are female. But there is a debate on whether simultaneous masturbation is sex. (mutual masturbation, despite the oxymoron, refers to oral sex)

XD (i find this funny for some reason) Does that mean we can call desiring to simultaneously masturbate (phone sex, etc.) "secondary sex"? But if they desire that kind of "sex" then they're Gray-ace.

[WhenSummersGone]

I disagree on libido meaning sex. I would just say sex drive or desire for partnered sex. As for the poll I agree with Mysticus.

[WinterWanderer]

I agree with Mysticus on this.
I don't think we necessarily have too many labels, though. I think they're just over-used.

I may not be fully awake, but what do you mean by over-used? Too many people use them, or when describing themselves, they use it too much?

Hrm... I wrote that while on a road trip and now I'm trying to decipher my thoughts behind it haha.

I guess, they're used so much that we don't really even know exactly what they mean anymore. Like the term "gray." Some people who could be considered fully sexual by some would be considered gray by others, because there's no distinct line drawn between what is sexual, gray, etc. There are many different perspectives, and it creates confusion.

[dissolved]

Libido has nothing to do with asexuality.

I do however, find it difficult to believe that someone who wants to wank over another person and just not insert stuff to be asexual. I know it's a case by case basis, but if you get your jollies off to humans and just don't want "traditional" sex, that doesn't seem like asexual to me.

(this was just a random thought inspired by the thread, not directed at anything in particular)

Edited July 9, 2016 by dissolved

[Éadweard]

Libido has nothing to do with asexuality.

I do however, find it difficult to believe that someone who wants to wank over another person and just not insert stuff to be asexual. I know it's a case by case basis, but if you get your jollies off to humans and just don't want "traditional" sex, that doesn't seem like asexual to me.

(this was just a random thought inspired by the thread, not directed at anything in particular)

Libido can have something to do with being asexual. Please don't make blanket statements about the ENTIRE community. Say libido has nothing to do with being asexual in relation to yourself.

[Éadweard]

These questions, or ones exactly like them, pop up on here at least once a week. I think they do nothing but illustrate the fact that absolutely no one knows what exactly asexuality is nor does anyone agree. It's a personal thing. People say they are asexual for their own reasons. Yet everyone wants to make blanket statements about the entire community based solely on how they see asexuality, which is their personal experience. My experiences that lead me to call myself asexual are vastly different from many. Let's start accepting that now and stop trying to make everyone conform and agree.

[Guest]

Libido has nothing to do with asexuality.

I do however, find it difficult to believe that someone who wants to wank over another person and just not insert stuff to be asexual. I know it's a case by case basis, but if you get your jollies off to humans and just don't want "traditional" sex, that doesn't seem like asexual to me.

(this was just a random thought inspired by the thread, not directed at anything in particular)

Libido can have something to do with being asexual. Please don't make blanket statements about the ENTIRE community. Say libido has nothing to do with being asexual in relation to yourself.

I believe dissolved meant whether one has a libido, or does not have a libido, has nothing to do with ones orientation. So, the question of libido does not need to be involved in whether or not one is asexual.

[Telecaster68]

Given 50%(ish) of asexuals apparently don't have a libido (a far higher proportion than sexuals, as far as I know), and it seems impossible to tell the difference between an asexual with a libido and sexual who's happy not having a libido, it does seem relevant. For one thing, that could mean half of asexuals are actually sexual with no libido, which in turn raises a bunch of questions about how it's defined.

I'm not saying one defines the other, either way. Just that when half of the people labelling themselves something could be wrong, it seems worth considering.

[Homer]

The only way I could imagine a happy sexual with no libido is where the libido fades later in life. As in, they've had their fair share of partner(s) and occasions, maybe they even reproduced and then their body just decides to "retire".

Or did I miss a crucial point?

[Guest]

Given 50%(ish) of asexuals apparently don't have a libido (a far higher proportion than sexuals, as far as I know), and it seems impossible to tell the difference between an asexual with a libido and sexual who's happy not having a libido, it does seem relevant. For one thing, that could mean half of asexuals are actually sexual with no libido, which in turn raises a bunch of questions about how it's defined.

I'm not saying one defines the other, either way. Just that when half of the people labelling themselves something could be wrong, it seems worth considering.

To me it seems more like 30ish % - don't confuse repulsed and nonlib aces; they overlap, but neither group is contained in the other. But yes, your basic point certainly stands.

The only way I could imagine a happy sexual with no libido is where the libido fades later in life. As in, they've had their fair share of partner(s) and occasions, maybe they even reproduced and then their body just decides to "retire".

Or did I miss a crucial point?

A scenario in which I'd say that they have naturally transitioned to asexuality. I won't even try and speculate how common that is; but I'm surely aware that folks can still have very active libidos well into their 70s, 80s, even 90s.

[Star Bit]

You removed the details from the 4th question.

Do you mean foreplay (i.e. making out, groping, licking)? Maybe seperate the making out question from the latter.

And you should have a question on wanting secondary sex (i.e. enacting a fetish with a partner and then fapping, wanting someone to watch while fapping, wanting simultaneous masturbation, wanting to masturbate while foreplay, phone sex, cyber sex, sexual online roleplay, etc.)

[Telecaster68]

Not really. I'm pretty sure that's what's happened with my wife. Menopause, basically. But there seem to be plenty of women, especially, who are fine with it.

[Guest]

I'll add my votes to the poll, going with what's the closer approximation for the binary.

Also editing my post above (#2) to show what approximation I went with. (Hint: It's yes to all. :))

BTW... a clear majority vote on 1 & 4, and a deeply torn disagreement on 2 & 3, is exactly what I expected as the result in this poll. (However, I'm a bit shocked that the majority in question 1 isn't clearer; I'd honestly have expected at least 95% yes, and find 25% invalidation of libidoist aces a pretty disgraceful result, to be perfectly frank. <_< )

[King Al]

Do I answer this considering everyone in the asexual community or how I find just myself to be asexual and how I fit the label?

[Guest]

Do I answer this considering everyone in the asexual community or how I find just myself to be asexual and how I fit the label?

I've seen it (and answered it with that in mind) as not just referring to yourself, but as to what kind of people you consider to be "valid" asexuals, fitting whatever way you define the concept of asexuality in your head. :)

[King Al]

Oooooooooh. Thank you. I'll just complete that poll now. :3

[Mike_Rophone]

You removed the details from the 4th question.

Do you mean foreplay (i.e. making out, groping, licking)? Maybe seperate the making out question from the latter.

And you should have a question on wanting secondary sex (i.e. enacting a fetish with a partner and then fapping, wanting someone to watch while fapping, wanting simultaneous masturbation, wanting to masturbate while foreplay, phone sex, cyber sex, sexual online roleplay, etc.)

Yes, basically. My wording seemed to confuse many people, so I guess they just answered based upon assumptions. I don't want to make a completely new poll, but I'm not sure how valid this one is because of the confusion it caused. Maybe I will remake it down the road.

[Star Bit]

Not really. I'm pretty sure that's what's happened with my wife. Menopause, basically. But there seem to be plenty of women, especially, who are fine with it.

Well, most women (and a minority of men) don't really desire sex (i.e. not directly), they just have responsive desire and it's strictly triggered then, so it's actually understandable why most women are ok with losing their sex-drive; because outside of foreplay they never had one.

[Telecaster68]

most women (and a minority of men) don't really desire sex (i.e. not directly), they just have responsive desire

Responsive desire is desire, it's just no spontaneous. They do really desire it, their buttons just need to be pressed differently.

it's actually understandable why most women are ok with losing their sex-drive; because outside of foreplay they never had one

I'm a bloke, and even I can see this is an epic misunderstanding of female sexuality.

[Star Bit]

Did Mysticus accidently like my comment?

And i already know that; what you said about responsive desire.

[Guest]

Did Mysticus accidently like my comment?

No, intentionally. Why do you think it was accidental?

[Star Bit]

Because of Telecaster's comment.