Jump to content

I don't want to hurt anybody


butterflydreams

Recommended Posts

butterflydreams

I've asked around about this a bit here, but I'm very unsure how to feel. I sympathize with sexual people in mixed relationships with asexual people, I really do. I don't know how you do it. It was suggested to share these thoughts in this forum, with what might be a wider audience, so that's what I'm doing.

I feel terrible, because the last thing I want to do is hurt somebody. I don't want to make some sexual person feel like they're "trapped" in a sexless relationship with me.

I feel paralyzed by fears that "no one, male, female, etc, will really want to date a marginally passable trans girl". I let those fears kill me before I even start. "Oh, better not message this bi/lesbian woman on a dating site. She'll just think you're some kind of freak guy fetishizing lesbians." Write to guys? I'd love to, but why would I voluntarily put the target on my back? They already find me on their own and call me a guy or a tranny anyway.

In my head, the story goes like this:
I meet some person who really likes me for me. They aren't bothered by the fact that I'm entirely romantically/sexually inexperienced. In fact, they look at it as a beautiful and rare thing. "Wow," they think, "she's chosen to let me get close to her and explore these things with her for the first time in her life. That's special." How many people out there at a reasonable, mature age get to be with someone and watch them blossom like that for the first time? And make no mistake, I will blossom. How and to what degree I don't know, but I will blossom.

It is a special thing, and it is beautiful. But my experience has shown me that people aren't interested in that special experience. As is their right, of course, but I can't help but feel saddened by that. It hurts to hear, "asexual, huh? So can you do sex, or what?" My situation seems special to me, but if nobody else is seeing it that way, I start to have doubts. Then it's no longer special, and I'm just a freak. I'm just someone who's not worth the time because I'm not immediately sex-able.

It's hard to keep my head up. I'm not trying to hurt or deceive anyone. I just want to be seen as a partner-worthy person regardless of the amount of romantic/sexual potential. It's not zero.

It hurts so much, I can't even describe. On the best days, it's a dull hurt that can be masked with a smile and a funny story shared with coworkers. On the worst days it's tears that won't even be dissuaded by "please don't cry and mess me up!"-mascara. -_-

Link to post
Share on other sites

You want my honest opinion? This is gonna get me beaten up but I don't care...

Ignore asexuality. Just ignore it entirely. You're trans and therefore you needn't mention it. People who transition DO blossom and they don't know how... anyone who dates you either knows that already, or will come to know that. Quite frankly, your asexuality is irrelevant.

As for feeling bad about sexual partners... you know what makes a person feel trapped? When your partner won't have sex with you, won't let you have sex with others, and refuses to let you go. That leaves the sexual with two options... miserable sexless life, or being far, far more cruel to someone than they want to be, because their asexual partner is forcing them to be cruel. So like, just don't do those things! Let them have sex outside the relationship and/or let them go when it becomes clear there's a serious incompatibility.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You want my honest opinion? This is gonna get me beaten up but I don't care...

Ignore asexuality. Just ignore it entirely. You're trans and therefore you needn't mention it. People who transition DO blossom and they don't know how... anyone who dates you either know that already, or will come to know that. Quite frankly, your asexuality is irrelevant.

As for feeling bad about sexual partners... you know what makes a person feel trapped? When your partner won't have sex with you, won't let you have sex with others, and refuses to let you go. That leaves the sexual with two options... miserable sexless life, or being far, far more cruel to someone than they want to be, because their asexual partner is forcing them to be cruel. So like, just don't do those things! Let them have sex outside the relationship and/or let them go when it becomes clear there's a serious incompatibility.

Did the asexual lock the sexual up to keep them trapped? Because unless you're literally shackled and/or behind bars, you can leave. If you refuse to leave even though you could at any time, then the shackles are only in your own mind. You are holding yourself in the cage even though you are the one with the key to that cage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes i realize that everyone has the right to leave, but there are more and less ethical ways of handling oneself in a relationship, particularly when you're with someone who loves you very, very much but is suffering. Continuing to insist that they cannot leave you and forcing them to be cruel just to get away... that's not the ethical way to deal with it. Most of us sexuals on this site are here because our partners aren't of the "oh, this is hurting you? Ok, maybe we should consider splitting" variety. They're of the "no no, it'll get better, I promise, just try this one more thing" or the "I love you so much and I will do anything for you... please just try to love me without sex, I don't know what I'd do without you" variety. That's a pretty emotionally heavy burden to put on someone. Of course you CAN make it hell for someone to leave you, and of course they still have the technical ability to leave, but some people really can't be that mean without it taking a huge toll.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Saying no one would want to date a trans person is just plain false. Dating as a trans person can be more complicated, but that doesn't mean no one would be interested in you, not by a long shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I feel terrible, because the last thing I want to do is hurt somebody. I don't want to make some sexual person feel like they're "trapped" in a sexless relationship with me.

The thing is, the "trapping" is on them. No one with any semblance of independence (or maturity, really) is going to really say they feel trapped by you. Unless you're some kind of domestic abuser and literally are trapping them, which somehow I think you're not...

The other thing to keep in mind is that you can't really trap somebody that wants to be there. That may or may not seem obvious, but yet it's the sort of simple thing that is easily forgotten.

I feel paralyzed by fears that "no one, male, female, etc, will really want to date a marginally passable trans girl".

*shrug* It may not always be about sex/gender presentation, but I'd be willing to bet a very high percentage of the population has got that "nobody will want to be with me because of X" aspect about them. Yet, I'd also be willing to bet a very high percentage of those people end up with someone that either doesn't mind or couldn't care less about that aspect. You might be surprised ;)

My partner may not technically be trans- in the way most people would use the term, but she is not entirely cis- either; she does not always relate to being "female" and she has experienced at least mild dysphoria in the past. (I'm pretty much the same way too, minus the dysphoria.) I know all this about her, but it doesn't make any difference to me personally. The only upsetting part about it to me is that, at some points in her life, these were things that brought her a sense of confusion and unbelonging. I want nothing but happiness for her, so of course I will feel bad for her that she had to go through these things. Other than that though, it honestly would not faze me if someday down the road she were to embrace the more "trans-" aspects of herself, or even make a full transition herself. And she feels likewise about me.

Trust me, there's other people out there that are looking for what's inside, rather than out. I refuse to think we're both THAT unique >_>

In my head, the story goes like this:

I meet some person who really likes me for me. They aren't bothered by the fact that I'm entirely romantically/sexually inexperienced. In fact, they look at it as a beautiful and rare thing. "Wow," they think, "she's chosen to let me get close to her and explore these things with her for the first time in her life. That's special." How many people out there at a reasonable, mature age get to be with someone and watch them blossom like that for the first time? And make no mistake, I will blossom. How and to what degree I don't know, but I will blossom.

It is a special thing, and it is beautiful. But my experience has shown me that people aren't interested in that special experience.

I had that exact same thought process when we met last summer. Like, nearly literally word for word.

I'm willing to bet my partner was thinking something like it too (even though unlike her I have had relationship partners before, things never really escalated to the level they have for me with her)

Again, I refuse to believe we're both THAT unique in this way :p I'm sure people would acknowledge and care about that sort of experience; I think it's just that when it comes to more "casual" dating environments, it's not really what most people expect, or came there to have (which would pretty much be why they'd be called "casual")

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

You want my honest opinion? This is gonna get me beaten up but I don't care...

Ignore asexuality. Just ignore it entirely. You're trans and therefore you needn't mention it. People who transition DO blossom and they don't know how... anyone who dates you either knows that already, or will come to know that. Quite frankly, your asexuality is irrelevant.

As for feeling bad about sexual partners... you know what makes a person feel trapped? When your partner won't have sex with you, won't let you have sex with others, and refuses to let you go. That leaves the sexual with two options... miserable sexless life, or being far, far more cruel to someone than they want to be, because their asexual partner is forcing them to be cruel. So like, just don't do those things! Let them have sex outside the relationship and/or let them go when it becomes clear there's a serious incompatibility.

I don't see why this is that outrageous. But I don't want to lie to people. If I said I was bisexual (potentially very true) that comes with a whole host of expectations and baggage. While it might not be as accurate (in a sense), asexuality is far more representative of what you'll get with me. I'm afraid to say I'm bisexual. If I said that in online dating, it sets up an expectation. An expectation I feel wholly unprepared to meet.

Or am I just afraid to say no? No one ever told me I could say no. Asexuality feels like it gives me "no" by default, and I can work up from there. Everything else feels like "yes" by default and I can't say "no". I have to be able to say no, and maybe more frequently than most people.

I'd never force someone to stick around. Why? Because I (far more than many) know that being alone isn't the end of the world. It can suck more than the vacuum of space, but it won't kill you. Plus, it's hopefully obvious that it's very important to me to NOT hurt people. I'd do anything to avoid it.

Saying no one would want to date a trans person is just plain false. Dating as a trans person can be more complicated, but that doesn't mean no one would be interested in you, not by a long shot.

I guess I'm afraid to even take a shot. I know there are all kinds of trans people out there in relationships. I just feel like they have something I don't, but I don't know what it is. Truth is, I couldn't fake being interested in relationships anymore as a guy, and I figured, after I transitioned, that would pretty much be the same. But I'm more interested now than ever, and in a way that's intrinsic, instead of extrinsic. I feel like I get so much now. I intrinsically see the appeal of so much that I didn't before. I want things because I want them, not because the world says I should want them.

Again, I refuse to believe we're both THAT unique in this way :P I'm sure people would acknowledge and care about that sort of experience; I think it's just that when it comes to more "casual" dating environments, it's not really what most people expect, or came there to have (which would pretty much be why they'd be called "casual")

I wouldn't think so either, but I've been consistently surprised and disappointed with just how "unique" I keep proving to be.

I mean, to some extent, does it really depend on someone else actually giving you a chance? I can't force someone to give me a chance to prove that they can watch me blossom, and be there for all that. They have to want to do it. It just doesn't seem to be a very desirable item.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gentle Giant

I don't think you should lie about being asexual, and like you said if you say you're bisexual that will set an expectation in people's minds. Who knows, you may actually find another asexual on the dating site. I think you are selling yourself short. You are a nice, good person and deserve to have someone special in your life.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

I don't think you should lie about being asexual, and like you said if you say you're bisexual that will set an expectation in people's minds. Who knows, you may actually find another asexual on the dating site. I think you are selling yourself short. You are a nice, good person and deserve to have someone special in your life.

The selling yourself short thing made me think of something. Is it possible that's the entire issue? After all, if I'm going around with thoughts that no one is going to want an asexual trans girl, won't that cause me to not take chances, and stop myself without even trying?

That seems like it should be an easy or at least straightforward thing to solve. Any ideas?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hads, I can totally relate to the crippling worry that comes from things like inexperience or an unfair body to be born into. I really wish I had an easy solution to this that I could pass onto you. :( I agree with GG that you are selling yourself short, but I know how difficult it is to overcome that, especially by other peoples' suggestions.

Here's an idea, though: if somebody asks you what your orientation is, maybe say "Bi, but not really sexual" to start a conversation. If they ask further questions, then you can elaborate, saying that you're interested in all genders, but you're not sexual. You can say asexual if you wish, but "not sexual" means literally the same thing and might make more sense to people who are unfamiliar with asexuality. If the conversation is leaning in that intellectual-exploration kind of way, perhaps you can turn that into a bonding moment by teaching them something new - what asexuality is, and how your romantic orientation is different from your sexual orientation. If it's not that kind of conversation, "not sexual" is still very straightforward.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you should lie about being asexual, and like you said if you say you're bisexual that will set an expectation in people's minds. Who knows, you may actually find another asexual on the dating site. I think you are selling yourself short. You are a nice, good person and deserve to have someone special in your life.

The selling yourself short thing made me think of something. Is it possible that's the entire issue? After all, if I'm going around with thoughts that no one is going to want an asexual trans girl, won't that cause me to not take chances, and stop myself without even trying?

That seems like it should be an easy or at least straightforward thing to solve. Any ideas?

I'm a bisomething, asexual trans girl, and I can safely say that you are not alone. You deserve to find love as much as anyone else, and I wish you the best of luck on this journey.

Link to post
Share on other sites
nanogretchen4

Hadley, it sounds like you are actively looking to explore your sexuality with another person. Are you certain that you are asexual and just unsure whether you can compromise? Or are you not sure whether you are asexual in the first place? Because you can't disclose what you don't know, and a label that may not even fit is not necessarily your friend.

If you think you might not be asexual I would suggest a demisexual style relationship strategy. The way it works is, you make a lot of friends, then you wait and see what develops. This is not efficient, but worst case scenario you end up with lots of great friends. This method lets you screen out transphobic jerks and people you have nothing in common with. You don't have to reveal the trans thing and your sexual orientation at the same time, because until you start dating someone they don't need to know your orientation. Not everyone who likes you will be sexually compatible of course, but try to think of the incompatible cases as successful friendships rather than failed romances. By the time you ask someone out on a date they will know how awesome you are. Maybe someone will be interested in dating Hadley who would not necessarily have thought an asexual transgirl sounded great on paper.

Alternatively, if you are certain that you are asexual and would rather find a permanently sexless relationship than explore your sexuality, online dating may be your best strategy after all. In that case, being very out and proud right out of the gate is the way to go. To a panromantic asexual an asexual transgirl sounds great on paper. If you want to date asexuals flaunt asexuality as an asset.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't say I entirely relate, nor can I give magical advices, but I don't think being an asexual trans woman automatically dooms you to hurting people. Certainly, it would make it more difficult to find someone, but certainly not impossible.

I suppose that there would be certain places where it'd be easier to find someone (I guess the internet counts?), I guess some LGBTQ+ related places, although some of them aren't always trans-friendly...

Either way, what I say might be meaningless to you but, please, don't think less of yourself because of your gender or your asexuality.

To a panromantic asexual an asexual transgirl sounds great on paper.

I just want to address that...
Being attracted to trans people =/= pan.
A trans woman is a woman, therefore a straight guy or a gay girl can very well be attracted to one. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
nanogretchen4

That is certainly true if you meet them in person. If you are starting from an online dating profile, someone who identifies as panromantic is specifically saying that the gender of their partner is not going to be an issue for them. If they identify as straight or gay it might or might not be an issue for them, but it's harder to predict online. If you get to know someone in person for awhile before trying to ask them out you can observe how they actually act around you. In that case you don't have to rely on their label as much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

Hads, I can totally relate to the crippling worry that comes from things like inexperience or an unfair body to be born into. I really wish I had an easy solution to this that I could pass onto you. :( I agree with GG that you are selling yourself short, but I know how difficult it is to overcome that, especially by other peoples' suggestions.

Thanks, it actually really helps to know I'm not alone in this. That's why I have to reframe my inexperience as an asset. Otherwise it would prevent me from doing anything I think.

Here's an idea, though: if somebody asks you what your orientation is, maybe say "Bi, but not really sexual" to start a conversation. If they ask further questions, then you can elaborate, saying that you're interested in all genders, but you're not sexual. You can say asexual if you wish, but "not sexual" means literally the same thing and might make more sense to people who are unfamiliar with asexuality. If the conversation is leaning in that intellectual-exploration kind of way, perhaps you can turn that into a bonding moment by teaching them something new - what asexuality is, and how your romantic orientation is different from your sexual orientation. If it's not that kind of conversation, "not sexual" is still very straightforward.

Hmm, this sounds like a good idea to me. I feel like "not really sexual" conveys the possibility of compromise and willingness to explore. At least, it does to me. Though I think I also have to learn to accept that I can't ever totally stop people from making assumptions, no matter how unfair they may be.

Hadley, it sounds like you are actively looking to explore your sexuality with another person. Are you certain that you are asexual and just unsure whether you can compromise? Or are you not sure whether you are asexual in the first place? Because you can't disclose what you don't know, and a label that may not even fit is not necessarily your friend.

Yes, I would like to explore my sexuality with another person. I'm not 100% certain I'm asexual, I never really was. It just seemed to fit, because there was never a whole lot of evidence of sexuality. I'm 27, I've only felt interested in people a handful of times, never kissed anyone, certainly never had any kind of sexual encounter with anyone. But transition has absolutely shifted my attitude and feelings. Maybe that's the complication in all this. I'm at a place where I really don't know, and I don't want to say this (asexual) but I also don't want to say that (bisexual).

One thing I'm afraid of, especially online, is pissing people off and getting blowback. As though my mere interest, and saying "hello, ..." would be so offensive to them. I don't know how realistic that is though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes dating results in blowback, and it sucks, but remember... just because someone is upset, just because someone blames you, doesn't mean they're right and it doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. Dating is hard in that regard for people like (I know this is shocking but) me and you, because we don't want to upset anyone ever, and if we do, we want them to understand why it happened. Unfortunately, some people refuse to understand and insist on acting like tantrum throwing children. You need to be able to say "that's not my fault or my problem" and walk away. This is where having friends help so they can all chime in like "fuck him he's an asshole!".

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with your phrasing it as an asset, Hadley, and personally I know I'd feel that "wow" you described if I had the opportunity to date you, the same way I did with my girlfriend.

Unfortunately, social stigma with regards to male-bodied people tries to enforce the opposite, and it makes me really sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

Sometimes dating results in blowback, and it sucks, but remember... just because someone is upset, just because someone blames you, doesn't mean they're right and it doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. Dating is hard in that regard for people like (I know this is shocking but) me and you, because we don't want to upset anyone ever, and if we do, we want them to understand why it happened. Unfortunately, some people refuse to understand and insist on acting like tantrum throwing children. You need to be able to say "that's not my fault or my problem" and walk away. This is where having friends help so they can all chime in like "fuck him he's an asshole!".

I understand about that. I know my primary concern is definitely that someone will be so offended that a trans girl is interested in them, that I'll get blowback. Potentially very serious. Maybe that just completely precludes online dating, which is disappointing because it seems like a better option in other ways. But it's fear creating inaction, which isn't helping anything.

I guess this is why there are gay bars, and LGBT+ meetups and things. Which I'm not opposed to, but I always feel like they're way too sexually charged for me. I have a really hard time in those spaces. If anyone with experience in those spaces has any advice, I'd be very interested to hear it.

Unfortunately, social stigma with regards to male-bodied people tries to enforce the opposite, and it makes me really sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

This is so sad. I really wish things weren't this way. At this point "male bodied" is minimally true anyway, and I compartmentalize everything that I can't change right now. I know that's a dealbreaker for many, and I don't fault them for that. It's just part of life as a trans person I guess. I try to remind myself that for every person for whom it is a dealbreaker, there is one person (maybe a half) who wouldn't mind. I have no idea if that's delusional or not.
Link to post
Share on other sites

We should make a trans and/or ace wingman support group to help people with these trickier factors find accepting or open-minded people to date. It's very unfair that it's so much more work to just meet people.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

We should make a trans and/or ace wingman support group to help people with these trickier factors find accepting or open-minded people to date. It's very unfair that it's so much more work to just meet people.

LOVE this!

I have a real life friend (well, one of a few). She's not too close geographically, but she's very supportive and wants to see me succeed in this. I worry a bit about asking too much of her, but mostly, I'm not even sure what to ask.

I used to think it was ok to kinda plant a seed with friends/siblings, like, "hey, I'm looking to meet somebody and I'm kinda stuck. If you know anybody, maybe you could send them my way?" But my mom told me doing that was dumb and rude.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's dumb or rude to do that. I think it's very rude for people to attempt to set you up without asking (which I've been spared from, luckily) but telling people you're close to to keep you in mind when they meet new people if a very normal and reasonable thing to ask, if you're just putting it out there that you're open to their help.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

Ok, good to know. I might just try that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We should make a trans and/or ace wingman support group to help people with these trickier factors find accepting or open-minded people to date. It's very unfair that it's so much more work to just meet people.

LOVE this!

I have a real life friend (well, one of a few). She's not too close geographically, but she's very supportive and wants to see me succeed in this. I worry a bit about asking too much of her, but mostly, I'm not even sure what to ask.

I used to think it was ok to kinda plant a seed with friends/siblings, like, "hey, I'm looking to meet somebody and I'm kinda stuck. If you know anybody, maybe you could send them my way?" But my mom told me doing that was dumb and rude.

I don't think that's dumb or rude at all. If heteronormative cis people do this often (when statistically the odds are in their favor), then anyone in a sexual/romantic minority can.

I don't know how old you are Hadley, but LGBT spaces for the 18-21set may be less sexually charged.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

Unfortunately I'm in my late 20s, which is probably the worst of it.

I'm going to force myself to continue to got to this local trans group, even though I'm far from crazy about their politics or views on gender. It's trans people...near me...so it's good enough as a start. The last meeting I went to was a bunch of nervous people, but now that I know what it's like, I can be more relaxed.

I will float some asks to my friend. To see if she knows anybody, or is willing to keep an eye out for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
El-not-so-ace

Definitely not rude or dumb, try it out ! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think merely saying "hello" would be offensive to anyone, though.

But I do think it would be hard to find anyone that doesn't have any prejudice or stigma in a setting that isn't necessarily targetting LGBTQ+ people. Not to say that it would be impossible, I know there are some tolerant folks out there who would be open to dating a trans woman. But I think your best chances would be in a trans-friendly place. Or, again, the internet.

From what I've heard, bars and night clubs in general are usually very sexually charged so perhaps not the best idea, though.

When "coming out" as not-very-sexual, would it be possible to mention that you are uncertain and would like to explore? I think many people wouldn't have a problem with this? Although you'd have to make sure that they do understand the possibility that you might end up not quite interested. (That would actually provide you with the possibility to say "well, I think I'm asexual".)

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

From what I've heard, bars and night clubs in general are usually very sexually charged so perhaps not the best idea, though.

Fortunately I already avoid clubs/bars/etc as it's about as far from my scene as you can get.

When "coming out" as not-very-sexual, would it be possible to mention that you are uncertain and would like to explore? I think many people wouldn't have a problem with this? Although you'd have to make sure that they do understand the possibility that you might end up not quite interested. (That would actually provide you with the possibility to say "well, I think I'm asexual".)

Sure, I think it's largely just a matter of doing it. The fact that I'm coming from a position of "I haven't" and "I'm unsure how much I can do" might be a little off-putting to some people.

So, thanks in large part to this thread, I've at least started mixing asexual with bisexual on my online dating profile. If I can think of how I'd like to word it, I might add an explanation about the "not very sexual, but want to explore, etc, etc" and drop the asexual from it entirely. I can always get into something and decide that it really wasn't for me, but I think I owe it to myself to try.

Link to post
Share on other sites
butterflydreams

Ok, so a quick follow up on this. I'm still working on the wording for my explanation, but I do list asexual and bisexual. People can do their own math on that.

But it's occurred to me there's one key flaw in all of my efforts:

What if no one is even willing to give me the time of day? I read a lot about people who complain that they go on all kinds of dates, but never get anywhere. That's not my problem. I wish I had that problem. My problem is people wanting to even start talking with me in the first place. Why is this so hard? Am I immediately repulsive in some way?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are not immediately repulsive, no. It's going to come more from your own self-doubt and how that influences your behaviour than it is you as a person. Some people can be not at all "attractive" in any common way, but because they're very outgoing they can still get dates based on showing interest in other people. That's really the key: show interest in other people. As people questions about themselves, questions that aren't just yes or no answers, but can lead to sharing anecdotes to make the conversation interesting. If you start that in the stage where you're still just messaging them online, you will also have more things to talk about when you meet in person.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...