question re attraction vs desire

[binary suns]

lately we've become aware that there's this thing called responsive desire, and learned that about half of humans experience romantic attraction but only desire sex after direct sexual stimulation in a safe sexual-romantic scenario.

but I am wondering - what if the person doesn't experience any attraction? then if they never get to a point when they are in a sexually stimulating scenario because they have no interest to do so, then they'd go their whole life assuming they are asexual, even though in a sexual scenario they would have a so-called "normal sexual" response. but the catch is - they are obviously not a normal sexual person!

I'd say that, looking at responsive desire without considering anything else, responsive desire must not be a sexual trait, only a grey trait. and that, experiencing attraction that is not sexual desire has to be a part of sexuality, sexuality can't be defined by solely desire because of this. that attraction also is a critical part of sexuality.

I'm thinking that both sexual attraction and sexual desire must be what makes a person not just grey or ace. because without any attraction to drive interest in a relationship or encounter, responsive desire would rarely if ever be experienced, and the person would behaviorally be ace. in fact, it's even fair to say there's about a 50% chance for any ace who has never had sex, that they could actually have the potential for sexual desire, and doesn't that shake you up a bit?

[Lost247365]

lately we've become aware that there's this thing called responsive desire, and learned that about half of humans experience romantic attraction but only desire sex after direct sexual stimulation in a safe sexual-romantic scenario.

but I am wondering - what if the person doesn't experience any attraction? then if they never get to a point when they are in a sexually stimulating scenario because they have no interest to do so, then they'd go their whole life assuming they are asexual, even though in a sexual scenario they would have a so-called "normal sexual" response. but the catch is - they are obviously not a normal sexual person!

I'd say that, looking at responsive desire without considering anything else, responsive desire must not be a sexual trait, only a grey trait. and that, experiencing attraction that is not sexual desire has to be a part of sexuality, sexuality can't be defined by solely desire because of this. that attraction also is a critical part of sexuality.

I'm thinking that both sexual attraction and sexual desire must be what makes a person not just grey or ace. because without any attraction to drive interest in a relationship or encounter, responsive desire would rarely if ever be experienced, and the person would behaviorally be ace. in fact, it's even fair to say there's about a 50% chance for any ace who has never had sex, that they could actually have the potential for sexual desire, and doesn't that shake you up a bit?

Wouldn't responsive sexual desire also be initiated during a masturbatory session? So, wouldn't the person still have an idea if they experience it or not provided they are a libidoist?

[Guest]

I don't see why you'd need "(sexual) attraction" to end up in a situation with someone where

1) that someone desires sex with you,

2) you freely consent without desiring,

3) and then start getting really into it (including starting to feel active desire to keep it going) once it commences.

And if that latter thing happens... I honestly don't see the greyness in that. It's just a form of being sexual, which apparently is pretty common, at least among women (a lot rarer, but still not unheard of, in men).

If that's grey, then I'd say that the grey-asexual spectrum covers at least 40% of the population. And I really don't see how that could be - if we're that much more common than gay people, how did they end up being more visible than us, with decades and centuries of head start?

[Sally]

Wouldn't responsive sexual desire also be initiated during a masturbatory session?

Responsive to who? And why responsive? To masturbate in the first place, you'd be feeling a rise in libido -- that feeling would precipitate the masturbation. And it's not likely that you'd feel a responsive desire for yourself. Just think about it.

[Autumn Season]

People who identify as asexual and never tried to have sex, might have a relatively high chance of being a sexual person with responsive desire or a demisexual. They can still id as ace. Most importantly nobody should do something they don't want to do.

[Telecaster68]

Responsive desire, in the way it's used by people like Emily Nagoski in Come As You Are, is about responding to your body being stimulated, rather than responding to a partner. She talks about in the context of couples, where probably one will be stimulating the other, but it could apply to masturbation too. You might not be feeling horny to start with, but when you start touching yourself, or watching porn, or whatever, your body responds by becoming aroused.

Chances are, there's some feeling of horniness, however faint, but it could also be in a situation for instance where you know you're not going to have the opportunity for a couple of weeks, and from experience, if you don't have an orgasm for a couple of weeks, you'll be crawling up the wall, so rationally, getting yourself off when you have the opportunity makes sense.

For asexuals, responsive desire could work like this, if they happen to work this way: during cuddling on the sofa, one person is getting horny and their hands are wandering. The other isn't feeling it, but Nagoski's idea is rather than close it down straight away, people with responsive desire should be open to going with it for a few minutes, and they may get turned on and end up wanting sex too. For probably most asexuals, they'll just continue to feel nothing, and that's fine. But some may get more into it.

It's definitely not 'fake it' or 'force yourself'. It's more like being open to the possibility.

To an extent, all sexuality is like this - the wandering hands partner in the example above might well have desire triggered by the cuddling and closeness, rather than horniness just spontaneously arising (though that does happen too). Some people respond quicker, and to less obvious triggers than others. If the couple had been sitting on separate seats, one wouldn't have suddenly jumped on the other. And it's not just physical proximity; the rest of the context can trigger the beginnings of responsive desire, which is why things like romantic dinners, candle lit baths and remote cottage holidays get suggested.

[binary suns]

Well then, maybe I misunderstand what responsive desire even is? the most I've come in contact with friends/peers is kissing, hugs, and random molestation, all of which I imagine isn't enough to trigger responsive desire. I'd think if an aromantic person who only experiences responsive desire kissed a person, it'd feel either like sensitive lips being sensitive or it wouldn't be very exciting at all.

[alibali]

Odd one. I have never masturbated as a response to desire, although I have used fantasy. The basic equipment works. It sends the heart racing enough to sometimes send me to sleep. It has also worked not too badly when with a sexual partner, but then I had to be willing, being tipsy helped. When I say willing I have never been forced, coerced maybe. But then TMI I just let him get on with it. But sometimes that was impossible because of my disinterest. So it is generally possible for an (what I call) asexual woman to have sex and conform. I wouldn't say that a physiological reaction occasionally makes me less assxual.