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Asexuality has Changed....


penamat

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Winter Holly

Penamat,

Beep! I agree re: the asexual spectrum being different from other intimacy minorities, because my difficulties have a lot to do with the way lotsa peops are eager, with a conspicuous lack of self-awareness, to believe bizarre prurient fantasies about people like me being out to rape them and their loved ones. This is because in addition to my sexuality being on the a/sexual spectrum, my romantic orientation is affirmatively nonmonogamist, both orientations point in slightly different directions, both are on the gay-pan axis, I have a BDSM orientation, and I'm trans. My best guess as to how I'm going to die is by hate crime, and I can say from experience that the "lifestyle choices" behind this are a huge trade up from the ones behind my best guess a couple of years ago as to how I'm most likely to die being suicide. That said, I don't think that the fight for the dignity of the "bogey monster" minorities is independent of the fight for the dignity of peops on the ace and aro spectra. We are all misunderstood, we all have challenges finding the types of life partnerships we're interested in, we all face risks of unwelcome sexual contact all the way from obnoxious flirting, through pushy lectures about our orientations and what they mean, to violence such as "corrective" rape.

How much thought have you put into how you'd feel if you did not have the privilege of distancing yourself from the gay-to-pan spectrum, BDSM, polyamory, gender minorities, sex minorities and whomever else is similarly portrayed as a bogey monster by fearmongers? -if you had to choose between coming out as a member of the targeted demographic, or denying yourself any psychological intimacy by living under a false pretense of being dyadic & cis, binary, het-mono-vanilla, neurotypical, theist of locally approved denomination, etc? How much thought have you put into how you'd feel if those things you hear about "what some one would do with a woman" were things about "what some one would do with YOU?" -into the difference between those creeps' reactions to a man advocating consent culture and a woman doing the same?

Are you familiar with the cliche, "We assume of others what we know of ourselves," by any chance? Please don't attribute self-loathing to this community, it reflects unflatteringly upon you. I can't speak for any one but myself, but despite being oppressed, in the end I feel blessed to belong to all of the intimacy minorities I mentioned because it means I'm surrounded by people who are wonderfully weird and different from myself, which has led me to understand human nature and my personal nature in ways I would not if I were allowed to take for granted the ways I feel about other people without ever questioning or examining those feelings, and also because it gives me advantages in promoting visibility and education.

I don't loathe myself, I feel pretty good about how I'm handling the bouquet of minority experiences fate has handed me, though for most of my life this was not the case because I felt like a coward. I crave intimacy, including physical, with people whom I find sexually repulsive. I don't know whether you consider this "true" ace, but whatever I am, with how thin-spread we are I've wound up finding a safe space cleared for me largely by social justice warriors in the LGBT and BDSM communities, both of which have been doing much more good than harm for me in terms of promoting consent culture. If you'd consider me to be a social justice warrior, I'd be flattered, because I'm proud to be fighting for your dignity too! I hope some day you can learn to stop doing to yourself what an overlubed wankshaft does best, and share in our pride. Boop!

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Did the OP actually get banned, or is he just not coming back to answer the replies?

I guess they haven't had chance to look at the replies, yet

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Well I agree that "asexuality has changed" in that there seems to be a lot of mixed messages out there from our own community. A good example is "nonsexual" used to be synonymous, now you can't even say it. It was even edited out of the Wikipedia article because there is a growing movement to emphasize asexuals have sex but just aren't attracted to the people they have sex with. Simply post something about being asexual and not wanting to have sex and you will be immediately corrected and will be told that is not what asexuality is.

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Spectre/Ex/Machina

Well I agree that "asexuality has changed" in that there seems to be a lot of mixed messages out there from our own community. A good example is "nonsexual" used to be synonymous, now you can't even say it. It was even edited out of the Wikipedia article because there is a growing movement to emphasize asexuals have sex but just aren't attracted to the people they have sex with. Simply post something about being asexual and not wanting to have sex and you will be immediately corrected and will be told that is not what asexuality is.

Well yeah, sexual experience will vary because humans are individuals and not a hive. Not all gays and straights experience their sexuality the same , same with aces. Some Aces want nothing to do with sex while some are are ok with it in their lives. Change is a good thing in this situation. Though people on both sides can try to be civil in these sorts of conversations.

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butterflydreams

Wait...so if the cool and smart thing to do is to not listen to the tirades people are going on and to not go along with their demands for change...then what are we supposed to do in response to this tirade? Is this a test??

For reals, though, most of what you're complaining about is the same type of zeal that can be found in people pursuing any aim or purpose. Do you think that it's your asexuality that's being misrepresented, or do you just wish other people behaved the same way as you do about their a/sexuality?

It's not just the aim though. Of course, not every gay person is the same or might have after same goal in LGBT or is even in LGBT. But all the gay have one thing in common. They are all gay and being gay is pretty straightforward (maybe confusing to some religious nuts) but in general gay is something universally understood. With Asexuality we can't even freaking agree on the definition. Now when someone says they are asexual they can be anything from completely asexual to non hyper sexual. We have absolutely nothing in common in terms of sexuality like gay or bi people do. What's the point of using a common word for it when you are like complete opposites of each other?

The same arguments come up in discussing LGB identities. I've known a few self-identifying gay/lesbian people who have entered hetero relationships well after coming out but do not identify as bisexual. Even within bisexuality, it can get messy. Asexuality, being a slightly newer concept and also less concretely demonstrated, is going to have more of this problem, but it's not exclusive, and I don't see how the solution is to deny community dialogue.

100% agree on this. Ever heard of "gold star gay"?

I've never really spent any time in bisexual communities but I imagine they have a lot of the same problems we do. Or just bisexual people in general. People policing their identity, or saying that "no, you're really just gay/straight." I can only imagine. It's probably a lot like many trans spaces. I do not envy them.

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I understand where you are coming from in terms of things changing, but I think that's the way with an identity/orientation that is finally recognised and joined by people. More stories and communities will appear as will opinions. It's changed because it's grown almost?

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Winter Holly

Well I agree that "asexuality has changed" in that there seems to be a lot of mixed messages out there from our own community. A good example is "nonsexual" used to be synonymous, now you can't even say it. It was even edited out of the Wikipedia article because there is a growing movement to emphasize asexuals have sex but just aren't attracted to the people they have sex with. Simply post something about being asexual and not wanting to have sex and you will be immediately corrected and will be told that is not what asexuality is.

I'm curious about this phenomenon, so might try to use "nonsexual" just to see if any one actually gets all weird about it like that. The impression I've been getting of AVEN at least is that the whole spectrum is welcome, from touch-averse aro aces to totally allo allies.

Maybe I'm wearing rose-tinted lenses and don't know it? ...or is it that AVEN is a particularly welcoming part of the ace continuum community? I'm under a firm impression that the AVEN community, in general, embraces and celebrates diversity, the prevailing attitude here is that there are no "wrong" places on the spectrum, nor causes for being any place on the spectrum, and labels are just a way for us to request and share more specific information than "somewhere on the aro ior ace spectrum" with others who choose to familiarise ourselves with the jargon. I've noticed a few complaints about the explosion of identity labels, but don't feel pressured by either the taxonomy geeks or the no-labels crowd to conform, because they and every one in between seem to get along fine here. I'm painfully aware that some peops pathologise being squicked out by sexuality, but I'm here in large part because I feel safe from that attitude here; when it comes up, it's gently corrected by a swarm of other AVEN members, and I don't sense that I'm at all pressured to do a song and dance number to prove my friendliness toward the sex-favourable ace region of the spectrum or the sex-averse region, because I'm already expected to embrace both sides of the community. I'm not pressured to find "the right" labels for myself, nor any other arcane political stuff. How rose-tinted are my lenses?

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100% agree on this. Ever heard of "gold star gay"?

I've never really spent any time in bisexual communities but I imagine they have a lot of the same problems we do. Or just bisexual people in general. People policing their identity, or saying that "no, you're really just gay/straight." I can only imagine. It's probably a lot like many trans spaces. I do not envy them.

Funny thing, I've actually heard the term "gold star asexual" used to refer to virgin asexuals, of course the context wasn't too serious. Bisexual policing is a very real thing, but it's not just from bisexuals themselves. It seems to me that lesbians seem distrustful of female bisexuals. Back when I was identifying as bisexual this seriously confused me because lesbians would say things like, "If a woman doesn't want to go down on another woman than she's really straight," I was grossed out by going down on a vulva as well as a penis, so I didn't know what to think. People also seem to be under the impression that bisexuals are promiscuous and very sexual, even though this is flat out untrue in lot of cases.

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butterflydreams

100% agree on this. Ever heard of "gold star gay"?

I've never really spent any time in bisexual communities but I imagine they have a lot of the same problems we do. Or just bisexual people in general. People policing their identity, or saying that "no, you're really just gay/straight." I can only imagine. It's probably a lot like many trans spaces. I do not envy them.

Funny thing, I've actually heard the term "gold star asexual" used to refer to virgin asexuals, of course the context wasn't too serious. Bisexual policing is a very real thing, but it's not just from bisexuals themselves. It seems to me that lesbians seem distrustful of female bisexuals. Back when I was identifying as bisexual this seriously confused me because lesbians would say things like, "If a woman doesn't want to go down on another woman than she's really straight," I was grossed out by going down on a vulva as well as a penis, so I didn't know what to think. People also seem to be under the impression that bisexuals are promiscuous and very sexual, even though this is flat out untrue in lot of cases.

God, all that crap is so gross. I don't know why people feel they can act that way towards others. I think I must be a weirdo because I knew loads of bisexual people long before I knew any gay or lesbian people. So to me it seemed natural as could be. Plus I always kinda thought I was a "broken bisexual", long before I even considered being ace, so maybe it hits close to home too. Maybe one day I'll figure out how to unbreak myself.

On a lighter note, hahaha, awesome, I'm a "gold star asexual"! Finally...things are lookin' up ;)

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Simply post something about being asexual and not wanting to have sex and you will be immediately corrected and will be told that is not what asexuality is.

Um, no. To me, the best definition of asexuality is not wanting to have sex with other people. I and others have used that on the zillions of "definition" threads on AVEN and no one has told us that that is not what asexuality is.

Yes, some of us have sex. I did for the sake of my partners. But that doesn't mean that I WANTED it. Wanting = feeling; having = action.

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Simply post something about being asexual and not wanting to have sex and you will be immediately corrected and will be told that is not what asexuality is.

Um, no. To me, the best definition of asexuality is not wanting to have sex with other people. I and others have used that on the zillions of "definition" threads on AVEN and no one has told us that that is not what asexuality is.

Yes, some of us have sex. I did for the sake of my partners. But that doesn't mean that I WANTED it. Wanting = feeling; having = action.

Some people will still claim to be asexual even if they do want sex. I've even seen that o Aven.

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TiffanyJung

Being LGBT in my country is viewed as a disease which needs to be wiped out so don't you dare say that LGBT people have equal rights. Not to mention the Orlando massacre. So how dare you say that they're safe?

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I saw a whole lot of "we" statements in your post that I don't actually agree with.

This place (as with asexuality as a whole) is not some kind of cult, you know.

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There's a mix of the reasonable and the not-so-reasonable, as there is in any community. I think there is an overabundance of labels yes, but so long as they are just being used 1. descriptively, to try to help clarify and 2. to help individuals feel like someone else out there gets them, I don't feel that it's necessarily bad.

I come here because I'm not sure where else I can look to find thoughts from those who see the world similarly enough to how I do. I'm not sure who else I can ask advice for various forms of relationships without sex necessarily having to be factored in. I come, I ask, I read the responses... and I take them with a grain of salt and decide what, from those responses, makes sense to me and my specific situation. Sure, I've gained a bit of confusion, but I feel like I've also been making steps to further understand myself.

It's enough for you to simply be asexual, and that's fantastic, honestly. Me... I'm obsessively introspective, and it's easier to explain things to myself when I have words and the experiences of others to reference. And it's for me. Most of what I come across here might come up in random conversation, but no, I'm not going to bother using or trying to explain the thousand different terms and how they apply to me to everyone, or even much of anyone.

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YorkshireTyke

Then again, anytime someone uses SJW as a pejorative I more or less go deaf to the rest of their bullshittery (which you've spewed so effusively).

Don't let the door, yadda yadda...

You took the words right out of my mouth!

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I don't agree with a lot of what the OP is saying, but I do agree with the idea that there are people who try to make it out as though society as a whole is against asexuality. What you are describing fits the Tumblr asexual community. I no longer browse there because I know I will read the same thing over and over.

People claiming to be oppressed and mad that people don't know we exist. Awareness is very important to our community, but it really pisses me off when people are mad at other people for NOT knowing about asexuality. I've seen asexuals calling other people idiots because the people didn't know about it. And dare a person being skeptical about it. It just reads as a bunch of people wanting to find something to complain about it.

There are difficulties that come with being asexual, yes, but I think it is pushing it to try to claim that there is constant "acephobia" going on when it really is just a bunch of young people disagreeing about so-and-so on the internet.

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I think it is pushing it to try to claim that there is constant "acephobia" going on when it really is just a bunch of young people disagreeing about so-and-so on the internet.

Beautiful. :cake: :cake: :cake:

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You will have to be more specific about the problems you are talking about. I honestly have never seen any radical leftists here.

There's one right here!

Still not sure what the radical lefty tribe have done?

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  • 1 month later...

Well then. I never intended to return. Yet, here I am. I am shocked!!! Not by the negative responses I have recieved, but by the positive. I expected dozens, if not hundreds of asexuals attacking me for my post. What I did NOT expect, was the few people that actually agreed with me. To those of you, Thanks.

​I simply do not have the energy to reply to every last person who commented on my post.. Not at all. I will say this though: Alot of you cited the massacre of people in our community in Orlando. A horrible tradgedy. A sick, disgusting waste of human life, one that I will not make fun of or parody in any way.... but what concerns me the most is this:

None of you mentioned the real culprit of the massacre of our people. Radical Islam.

Call me a racist all you want to. Say it once, Then again. Then one hundred more times. Then one hundred more, and the accusation you have made to me 202 times... will still be false. No matter how many times you say it.... It is still false.

Anyway, take care folks.

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For what it's worth, penamat, I appreciate your candor and your personal sharing. I feel like if everyone gets along and no one disagrees with one another, then people would stop thinking for themselves and all become sheep. We have our opinions, and we should bravely express them, without fear of being disagreed with. Your honesty has made me think, and I appreciate that. For me, it's not about agreeing with blah blah and disagreeing with blah blah. It's about "live and let live." That doesn't mean "stifling" either!

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  • 1 year later...

Goodness! How have I not been deleted? You admins are tolerant. I like that. I expected to be the first ever asexual ever blocked solely on my political bias alone. 

 

I voted Trump! 

 

I.. was NOT happy about it when I did, I was actually upset to the point of nausea. 

 

However, I am happy now, given his support of the LGBT community, and his support of Israel, the only other country in the middle east that supports LGBT rights. 

 

I do not call myself an Asexual anymore, but I am happy I joined this community. I met four people who I will will be friends with for life, and a fifth, that is my Girlfriend. 

 

I am thankful. Thanks AVEN. Yet, I we are all conservative/libertarian now. 

 

Block me if you wish. If not, thanks for the platform. :D

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