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#1 sonofzeal

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 09:46 PM

Okay, I've heard various definitions of asexuality, but I still have one question - can an asexual still enjoy sex? Granted not all will (especially those who find it gross), and they may have no desire to, but they still have all the same nerve endings, right?
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#2 Rabger

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 09:51 PM

Okay, I've heard various definitions of asexuality, but I still have one question - can an asexual still enjoy sex? Granted not all will (especially those who find it gross), and they may have no desire to, but they still have all the same nerve endings, right?


Depends on the person. Some can enjoy the physical sensations of sex. Some enjoy the emotional aspects of sex. Some enjoy both, some enjoy neither. Some asexuals have had sex, were physically capable of it, orgasmed, and still didn't enjoy it. Like I said, just depends on the person. All we have in common is that we lack a type of sexual attraction and/or sexual desire. Everything else is up to the individual.
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#3 sonofzeal

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 10:04 PM

Pretty broad catagory then, which I guess should be expected. Heck, I guess I fall under that umbrella too - not many straight guys arn't affected at all by female nudity and porn. I see a porn star in basically the same way as a greek nude. I get turned on by and am attracted to the emotional/psychological element in things, not the physical. Would that qualify me as an asexual then? Or just an unconventional sexual?
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#4 Tereya Chan

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 10:15 PM

You sound like a conventional sexual, since you are sexually attracted to your girlfriend, right?

I personally am not into much touching at all. I have had issues even getting beyond the initial steps of a relationship because it all ends up feeling like I am being pressed to by more physical, and can't be happy with who I am and that there is something wrong with me because of that.

It all depends on the individual though. I have an asexual friend that loves to hug and cuddle and is happy with her girlfriend. So it all depends on a varying level of comfort for the individual.


#5 sonofzeal

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 10:31 PM

Sexually attracted to her..... hmmm....

Physical attraction has never been part of our bond. Like I said, it's the emotional and psychological levels that get me going, not the physical ones. If she wore skimpy lingere for me, yes I'd get turned up, but not by the view (although she IS beautiful and the view would be very nice indeed). It would be the fact that she's doing it for me, and the emotional intimacy implicit in that, not the lingere. So does that qualify as _sexual_ attraction, or just as attraction?
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#6 Tereya Chan

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 10:38 PM

Do you want to have sex with her? I mean, I would hope that it would be the emotional intimacy of sex that you enjoy, but I think that's how it is for most sexuals, at least I'd hope so.

I think only really shallow people have sex just to satisfy themselves and not care about the other person. Most normal people want it to express the love and bond between two people.

Unfortunately, for a lot of asexuals, I don't think that it works like that... granted, I'm still coming to terms with my own identity, but I know I've never felt an urge to have sex with someone, even people I care about. It's caused me a lot of stress, especially this past week, and I wish I could be more concrete in my answers to you...


#7 Rabger

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 10:41 PM

Sexually attracted to her..... hmmm....

Physical attraction has never been part of our bond. Like I said, it's the emotional and psychological levels that get me going, not the physical ones. If she wore skimpy lingere for me, yes I'd get turned up, but not by the view (although she IS beautiful and the view would be very nice indeed). It would be the fact that she's doing it for me, and the emotional intimacy implicit in that, not the lingere. So does that qualify as _sexual_ attraction, or just as attraction?


Physical attraction and sexual attraction are two different things. And that's why, when you break it down, people get confused. I have to leave for class, so I'll try to do this quick.

I have developed more detailed terms, though I'm still working on them.

Primary sexual attraction is sexual attraction mostly based on physical attributes. An on-sight type of thing.

Secondary sexual attraction is sexual attraction that only develops after in contingent upon emotional attraction developing first.

It sounds like you lean toward secondary. You are still sexual though, from the sounds of it, because you have sexual desire, whereas asexuals generally don't.

Maybe more later, I'm late. Hope I'm helping and not totally confusing you!
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#8 sonofzeal

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 10:55 PM

I wish I could be more concrete too...

I would hope that most people would mate out of emotional intimacy as well. It's more than that for me though.... the best way I can describe it is by saying that to me, sex isn't sexy. Does that make sense?

I guess what I'm saying is that I have no more interest in the deed itself than an asexual, and I think that does set me appart from most other sexuals. I want it, yes, but as evidence of their bond with me, not as an end in itself. If it wasn't for the fact that in my brain I associate mating with emotional bonds, I don't think I'd have any problem labeling myself an asexual.
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#9 sonofzeal

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 11:34 PM

I have developed more detailed terms, though I'm still working on them.

Primary sexual attraction is sexual attraction mostly based on physical attributes. An on-sight type of thing.

Secondary sexual attraction is sexual attraction that only develops after in contingent upon emotional attraction developing first.


That actually sounds pretty accurate to me. So I'd have secondary sexual attraction, but hardly any primary. If "sexual" is for both and "asexual" is for neither, maybe we need a new term for people who only have one but not the other?

I propose "demisexuals". ^^
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#10 cijay

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 11:43 PM

Pretty broad catagory then, which I guess should be expected.


That's exactly it. That's pretty much the message we want everyone to get, we're very diverse.
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#11 sonofzeal

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Posted 08 February 2006 - 11:52 PM

That's exactly it. That's pretty much the message we want everyone to get, we're very diverse.


Wooo! Go diversity! :cake::cake::cake: for all! ^____^

*waits for ~Forbidden Fury~ so he can give her :cake: and she can explain the rest of her theory*
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#12 Xenon

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 02:40 AM

Okay, I've heard various definitions of asexuality, but I still have one question - can an asexual still enjoy sex? Granted not all will (especially those who find it gross), and they may have no desire to, but they still have all the same nerve endings, right?


In my case, a qualified "Yes". Even though I have virtually no sex drive (the physical urge isn't there), I am quite capable of having sex. Just as I am perfectly capable of eating when I am not hungry. However, the fact that it's been more than 13 years since I last had sex with someone should indicate how much I actually puruse any opportunities for sex. :D

That being said... because of the intimate nature of sex, I would be able to have it only with someone I knew well, someone I was very fond of (at the very least), and someone I trusted. (And I'm not the trusting type.) Right now there is no one in my life who fits that description. But that doesn't bother me at all.

It is possible (though, IMO, not very likely) that someday I may find someone with whom I'd want to establish a relationship of some permanence. And that may well lead to sex. In that case, I can foresee my partner being driven up the wall by the fact that we'd very likely never have sex unless she initiated it... :lol:
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#13 Rabger

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 03:32 AM

That actually sounds pretty accurate to me. So I'd have secondary sexual attraction, but hardly any primary. If "sexual" is for both and "asexual" is for neither, maybe we need a new term for people who only have one but not the other?


I'm back. I will continue, as I wasn't happy with what I said earlier. I hate being rushed. Okay, so first off I should tell you that I've been working these terms for a while now, and had a huge amount of help from my ex, who is sexual. While there are a few people on this board that disagree, most of the people I've spoken to do agree. But its still a work in progress.

To answer what you said above, I never said that sexuals experience both and asexuals experience neither. I'm going to throw out some terms, trying to limit them to the ones I think are involved. But before I do that, let me say first that at this point, I disagree with our def of asexuality as a person that does not experience sexual attraction. I get a lot of heat for that, but it's just how I see it. I do think some asexuals experience primary, and there is a theory that some may experience secondary (though Im still a little iffy about that one, and is my main point of exploration). I think a better term is:
asexual - a person that does not experience primary sexual desire.

Let me explain.

Primary sexual attraction is sexual attraction mostly based on physical attributes. An on-sight type of thing.

Secondary sexual attraction is sexual attraction that only develops after in contingent upon emotional attraction developing first.

Being sexually attracted to someone does not mean that you are turned on (when I use the words 'turned on' or 'aroused,' I mean it in the physical sense) every time you see them, all the time. If that was the case, most guys would be walking around with a hard on all day. Sexual attraction causes sexual desire in sexuals. I believe from what I've heard of members of this site, that some asexuals do experience primary sexual attraction, but they have no sexual desire to pursue it. People get touchy when I say this, but it makes sense to me. More terms.

Primary sexual desire is the drive to engage in sexual activity with another person for the purpose of personal pleasure (physical, emotional, or both). By drive I mean the reason for pursuing.

Secondary sexual desire is the drive to engage in sexual activity solely for the sake of your partner's personal pleasure (physical, emotional, or both).

If an asexual has sex, 95% of the time its to please their partners (the other 5% is generally out of curiousity and not really desiring it). In some cases, an asexual may actually begin to desire sexual activity, but only because they know their partner enjoys it, and want to please them. Pleasing one's partner probably produces emotional pleasure for the individual, and maybe even physical, but that personal pleasure is not the drive, the partner's pleasure is. If the partner wasn't into sex, the asexual wouldn't have secondary, or any, sexual desire. Their physical and emotional needs are satisfied from other things and does not lack without sex.

For sexuals, most seem to experience primary. Casual sex is solely primary (from my understanding). Sex within a loving relationship between sexuals is usually BOTH primary and secondary sexual desire. Some sexuals may even only experience secondary, but still may experience sexual attraction. In that case its really hard to tell, as some women, say in the past, didn't enjoy sex and would do so out of obligation or for their husbands. Its hard to say whether or not they were sexual or asexual, because of the time. We'll skip that.

Take a priest, for example. Vow of celibacy and all. They choose not to engage in sexual activity, but they can still find someone sexually attractive. They can even experience sexual desire, but choose not to pursue it. It is a choice.

I hope you don't mind me picking you a part a little, but it sounded like you were asking, so I'm going to give you my interpretation given what you've said. It sounds like you experience secondary sexual attraction, but primary sexual desire (secondary too, probably, but thats harder with an asexual partner). Even though you require romantic attraction before the sexual attraction and desire kick in, once it does you do want sex, even if its solely for the emotional aspect. Not having any sexual activity would seem like something was lacking for you. Whereas for an asexual, nothing would be lacking. For an asexual, they can have their romantic physical and emotional needs met from other things, even if they can get these from sex as well. Sexual activity does not prove a separate and unique emotion that is important. They may very well be able to get the same type of connection from doing other things, like cuddling, and be content with that without anything lacking.

And just to toss this out there, in my second response to you I said that sexual attraction and physical attraction were two different things, but I didn't explain why I said this. I don't think its really needed for what I just said, but I hate loss ends. So:

Physical attraction is the desire to be physically close to someone in a non-sexual manner. Examples can be hugging, cuddling, kissing (without intended use as foreplay), hand holding, etc.

So, a little long winded, but I hope that makes sense to you. In my personal opinion, fully realizing I don't know you, you sound sexual to me, though of a rare variety, as I think most experience some level of primary sexual attraction.
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#14 sonofzeal

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 04:35 AM

Wow.

I applaud you, that is probably the most comprehensive model of human sexuality I've ever seen. Do you have a name for it, or can you share your last name so I can go around spouting it off and sound official and stuff?

I think you're exactly right. I experience physical attraction and secondary sexual attraction, but not primary sexual. And I'm still chaste, but primary and secondary desire both look like highly important elements to me. Both of those will give me trouble in a relationship with an asexual, especially the second one, but that's something to work out with just the two of us. But just having a model like that in my head makes me feel far more prepaired, whatever happens.

Many thanks. :cake:
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#15 Rabger

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 05:45 AM

Wow.

I applaud you, that is probably the most comprehensive model of human sexuality I've ever seen. Do you have a name for it, or can you share your last name so I can go around spouting it off and sound official and stuff?

I think you're exactly right. I experience physical attraction and secondary sexual attraction, but not primary sexual. And I'm still chaste, but primary and secondary desire both look like highly important elements to me. Both of those will give me trouble in a relationship with an asexual, especially the second one, but that's something to work out with just the two of us. But just having a model like that in my head makes me feel far more prepaired, whatever happens.

Many thanks. :cake:


Thanks much, I love cake :) I've just been calling it the Sexual Attraction Theory, but that def needs work, because it's far more than that. Human orientation theory? Human sexuality theory? *L* My name is Xendara. Someday I'm hoping to get it published. Maybe in a sociology paper or something, as soon as I iron out the issues. I'm not studying sociology, I'm actually a zoology major, but I enjoy it anyway. I gave you the shorter version, and I'm still working on terms and examples. A few of my fellow asexuals and I have been discussing data collection with surveys and the like.

But, all that isn't the point. It sounds like I was helpful, and that was my purpose, so I'm glad it may have helped straighten a few things out :D
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#16 XshadowX

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 08:53 PM

Asexuals never have sex, so tghere is no way to know if they would enjoy it.

#17 a-d

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 09:56 PM

Asexuals never have sex, so tghere is no way to know if they would enjoy it.

Such random trolling might actually be useful in studying why skeptics say "You just haven't found the right partner yet." Such people trivialize bad sexual experiences to salvage hope at future satisfaction. I, however, believe that negative experiences are equally valuable to positive ones. If one person has had so many experiences and found most or all of them enjoyable, that should have equal weight as with someone else who had the opposite reaction. That would at least shine some light on the whole "orientation" part of things. And for asexuals who positively avoid sexual experiences, then whether or not they would enjoy it does become rather irrelevant. To put it into terms that even small-minded people would hopefully understand, it's that there are people in the world who intuitively know that they will not like the taste of a steaming pile of elephant dung and thereby forego the dining ritual, but then there are also people who can only learn that from experience. Hope that helps.

#18 Brodertun

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:09 PM

Asexuals never have sex, so tghere is no way to know if they would enjoy it.



I'm asexual, have always been asexual and have had sex.

It was okay, a few parts I enjoyed. Actually enjoyed them so much I would be willing to engage in sex again to do those parts, which aren't related to penetration.

However, it's been almost 5 years since I've had sex. And I have no desire to go out seeking it.

#19 a-d

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:47 PM

Okay, that reminds me, I didn't actually finish answering the question. Certainly, asexuals needn't find everything about sex to be disgusting or undesirable. I would say, though, that someone who does thoroughly enjoy sex cannot really be asexual. Maybe such a person would choose a lifestyle of celibacy, or maybe said person just has low libido. I guess it just depends on how you want to split hairs between enjoyment and attraction and desire.

#20 cijay

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 01:21 AM

Asexuals never have sex, so tghere is no way to know if they would enjoy it.


Wow, it must be exhausting running around peeking into the windows of every asexual to have such a definite expert opinion. Remember to pull your shades folkies.
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#21 starrysky

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Posted 12 February 2006 - 10:08 PM

Okay, I've heard various definitions of asexuality, but I still have one question - can an asexual still enjoy sex? Granted not all will (especially those who find it gross), and they may have no desire to, but they still have all the same nerve endings, right?


I have the same nerve endings, and I can have an orgasm pretty much every time, but I don't enjoy it. Even though the orgasm feels good, I don't enjoy feeling it. How's that for confusing? :?

#22 sonofzeal

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:37 AM

I have the same nerve endings, and I can have an orgasm pretty much every time, but I don't enjoy it. Even though the orgasm feels good, I don't enjoy feeling it. How's that for confusing? :?


Actually, I know exactly what you're talking about, it's the same for me. I need to, to keep my drive under control, but I don't want to besides that. It still sorta seems to me like the only difference between me and an indifferent-asexual is that I have this weird association between it and intimacy. Also being high-drive kinda keeps me from seeing myself that way. I'm still not convinced I can properly be described as a sexual. But, I don't feel a major need to classify myself, so whichever you want to see me as works for you.
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#23 Mr. Spock

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 05:59 AM

To put it into terms that even small-minded people would hopefully understand, it's that there are people in the world who intuitively know that they will not like the taste of a steaming pile of elephant dung and thereby forego the dining ritual, but then there are also people who can only learn that from experience. Hope that helps.


Thank you so much for the metaphor- however unpleasant. A few kids who've figured out I'm asexual feel the need to prove I'm not or some such pointless gesture (go figure) and keep asking me how I could possibly know that I would not enjoy it. Gosh- I dunno... how about my having to cover my eyes and then leave the room feeling sick and nauseated when people have long “passionate” kisses in movies? I genuinely know that I find sex revolting and would not enjoy it. Period. I have to be an outsider looking in when people talk about any aspect of the act positively. Now someone else has just embodied my thoughts and I can be more at ease. Thank you, again!
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#24 Fuzzrules

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 06:15 PM

Starrysky wrote:
I have the same nerve endings, and I can have an orgasm pretty much every time, but I don't enjoy it. Even though the orgasm feels good, I don't enjoy feeling it. How's that for confusing? :?[/quote]

I kinda liken it to hitting your head against a brick wall. It feels SO good when you stop, of course, I'd rather not even start :)

#25 cijay

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 04:51 PM

Certainly, asexuals needn't find everything about sex to be disgusting or undesirable.


I agree. Many asexuals would agree with that. We're diverse, some don't find ANYthing about sex to be disgusting or undesirable, some don't find EVERYthing - I'm indifferent. I don't care what people do, I just don't want to see or hear about it. To me it's a manners thing. I think it's very rude and disrespectful to yourself and your partner if you start talking about it to people.

I would say, though, that someone who does thoroughly enjoy sex cannot really be asexual. Maybe such a person would choose a lifestyle of celibacy, or maybe said person just has low libido. I guess it just depends on how you want to split hairs between enjoyment and attraction and desire.


I don't know if it's even hairsplitting. Asexuals don't experience sexual ATTRACTION. Enjoying sex has nothing to do with if you're attracted to that person or not.
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#26 synx13

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 06:21 PM

Okay, I've heard various definitions of asexuality, but I still have one question - can an asexual still enjoy sex? Granted not all will (especially those who find it gross), and they may have no desire to, but they still have all the same nerve endings, right?

You'd be surprised how varied we are in the number of nerve endings, and their sensitivity. A friend of mine I know hates himself too much to accept being asexual, but can barely um... well, rosie palm is an underperformer for him. Especially with women, some can enjoy nine orgasms in a row, others can enjoy none at all and be happy with maintaining their conscious faculties.

One interesting notion about nerves is there isn't any difference between pleasure nerves and pain nerves. It's all in how our brain intereprets the sensation. That's one of the reasons sadomasochism is so successful as a fringe culture, because people learn to enjoy the pain, as well as enjoying being humiliated. It's also one reason that many women in our misogynist culture find sex painful and distressing, because on some level they've been taught that that sort of feeling is harm. (Also because of a notable prejudice against K-Y and foreplay.) As for guys, if you don't think sex is painful, just try it after the 4th orgasm. ;)

All that said, I'm probably depressingly normal in terms of sexual response and whether I feel pleasure or pain. I probably would enjoy sex if I ever got stuck doing it, and the scary thing is there's nothing I can do about it. I can sit here and say, "No, I don't want to have sex. Ever." And then if I get stimulated in the right way, my mind will change against my will. Is that supposed to be a fun thing? I consciously avoid sex because I don't like the way it messes with my mind, not because it doesn't feel good. Well, that and the fact that everyone I meet is a sexual moron, and the physical dangers of sex itself. There are many reasons people choose, or just are, asexual, and no pleasure during sex is one of them, but not all of them.

#27 maco

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 06:25 AM

To put it into terms that even small-minded people would hopefully understand, it's that there are people in the world who intuitively know that they will not like the taste of a steaming pile of elephant dung and thereby forego the dining ritual, but then there are also people who can only learn that from experience. Hope that helps.


Thank you so much for the metaphor- however unpleasant. A few kids who've figured out I'm asexual feel the need to prove I'm not or some such pointless gesture (go figure) and keep asking me how I could possibly know that I would not enjoy it. Gosh- I dunno... how about my having to cover my eyes and then leave the room feeling sick and nauseated when people have long “passionate” kisses in movies? I genuinely know that I find sex revolting and would not enjoy it. Period. I have to be an outsider looking in when people talk about any aspect of the act positively. Now someone else has just embodied my thoughts and I can be more at ease. Thank you, again!

I go with "have you ever smoked crack? no? how do you know you dont want to if you've never tried it?"
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#28 a-d

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 02:59 AM

I go with "have you ever smoked crack? no? how do you know you dont want to if you've never tried it?"

That's true...although most people who have tried crack would appear to like it, at least looking at how much they try to get more of it. Maybe sex is equally addictive for some people.

I genuinely know that I find sex revolting and would not enjoy it. Period. I have to be an outsider looking in when people talk about any aspect of the act positively. Now someone else has just embodied my thoughts and I can be more at ease. Thank you, again!

Yeah, it maybe doesn't make for the most polite conversation. I still maintain an indifferent attitude towards sex, but I can sympathize with asexuals who don't. Usually, it's just good enough to ask a heterosexual person how much homosexual sex is appealing, or a homosexual vice-versa, but in the case of bisexuals or hypersexual opportunists, these hypotheses may not apply, or at least not have the same negative effect as general sex to antisexuals.
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#29 Wineblood

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:45 AM

I suppose I'd enjoy sex (physically) the same way a massage feels ok even though I find it very invasive.

I go with "have you ever smoked crack? no? how do you know you dont want to if you've never tried it?"


LoL, have many times have I used that line and had to explain it to the people who smply don't get it ??

My blog : Musings Of A Lonely Mind

 


#30 Cerberus

Cerberus

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 05:26 AM

Enjoy sex? Well, here's where it gets complicated.

I get intense and deep satisfaction from making my partner orgasm and strive to deliver the best quality in those orgasms. Doing something novel also can increase satisfaction.

The act of sex itself isn't so hot. I forego any me-centered sex activity because it is meaningless and brings me no happiness or satisfaction.

Nonetheless I have the ability to orgasm. My equipment functions and responds to tactile stimulation. The only problem is that there is nothing attached to it. There is no pleasure, only the ejection of sperm.

So, I enjoy sex, kinda, but not really. It's really just a specific avenue where I can explore the personal quirk wherein I get intense satisfaction and happiness from making others happy.




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