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I don't understand the sex


Tarfeather

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Tarfeather

Why do people desire sex with someone, who doesn't want it? What's the point of having sex with an asexual partner when the asexual partner doesn't enjoy it? What's the point in trying to get someone to have sex with you? What value does sex have, if the other doesn't intrinsically desire it?

I seriously don't understand it. I thought sex was something I desired no matter what, and I considered myself kind of an asshole for it. But now, with my partner not desiring with me, and yet offering her body to me, I do not find myself desiring sex with her. It's not a matter of morals. It just has no appeal. I don't know why I ever thought just having sex, and and of itself, would have any appeal.

So what's up with people who will pay a prostitute just to go through the physical motions? Or someone who will rape an unconscious person? What's the point? Even disregarding all morals, why would anyone do that?

I used to have a lot of envy for people who had relationships and sex. Now I no longer feel any of that. I've somehow understood, that the value of it, lies in the emotional connection between people. That treating the physical and romantic intimacy, as a kind of object, as a prize to be won, as something to try to get out of the other, already meant I'd lost my chance at establishing this kind of intimate relationship with that person, because I didn't understand in the first place what I was seeking.

So now I look at the world, and I realize that I've no interest in going after sex or romance. Rather I just want to interact, be a part of the world of women that interest me. And I'm confident that just my true being, would be enough for some women to feel an emotional, romantic or sexual intimate connection with me, without me ever trying to make it happen. Sex would simply be an expression, of something that was already there to begin with, not something to aim for.

I would assume that people who are successful with relationships in the world out there already have this understanding, and that's how they were successful. So why is sex still so commonly treated as object or prize, when in reality it is merely an expression of something deeper?

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Sex isn't always an expression of something deeper. Sometimes it's just fun. I personally don't understand wanting sex with someone who isn't ridiculously enthused, but that's just me. *shrugs*

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Tarfeather

Sex isn't always an expression of something deeper. Sometimes it's just fun.

I'd say even then it's an expression of something "deeper", mostly because "deeper than a symbolic prize to be won" is a very low bar to begin with.

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FlaafyTaffy

For a lot of people, it's just about the pleasure and the feelings they get from the act. Their sex drives crave that action and that release and they don't need a super close connection with someone to get pleasure from the act.

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*shrug* I try to look at it like roller coasters. I don't get how it can be fun to go scream your head off with a bunch of strangers, while feeling like your stomach is up in your throat. But, some people enjoy it. And then, some people can only enjoy it if they go with a friend and mutually enjoy screaming their heads off together. Some people need to share it, some people don't. Sex can be fun for the physical pleasure, or emotional, or both for people.

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Rising Sun

I thought sex was something I desired no matter what, and I considered myself kind of an asshole for it. But now, with my partner not desiring with me, and yet offering her body to me, I do not find myself desiring sex with her. It's not a matter of morals. It just has no appeal. I don't know why I ever thought just having sex, and and of itself, would have any appeal.

This makes me think about the recent threads about reactive desire.

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Tarfeather

What I'm saying is basically that this "just having fun", "craving" and so on that you speak of, has a lot of depth to it, maybe more than you're consciously giving credit right now. Maybe it's not so obvious to people, for whom this kind of thing would be simple to come by, like natural. For me, it's not, nor has it ever been. There always has been a massive freaking wall between me and other people, in all social respects. So I see very clearly, that even when social interaction (of any kind, not just sex) is just a simple and fun thing for someone, there are actually massively complex underpinnings to that process. And being able to be part of that, no matter how unimportant and shallow it might seem to others, it would actually be an incredibly deep experience to me. Again, not talking about sex specifically, but social interaction in general.

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Tarfeather

I thought sex was something I desired no matter what, and I considered myself kind of an asshole for it. But now, with my partner not desiring with me, and yet offering her body to me, I do not find myself desiring sex with her. It's not a matter of morals. It just has no appeal. I don't know why I ever thought just having sex, and and of itself, would have any appeal.

This makes me think about the recent threads about reactive desire.

Care to elaborate? Responsive desire seems like the opposite of what I'm experiencing.

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Rising Sun

From what I understood about it, it's about wanting sex only if your partner wants it too, right ? So if your partner doesn't want it, what's the point in wanting it ? It feels useless and more like a turn-off.

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Tarfeather

From what I understood about it, it's about wanting sex only if your partner wants it too, right ? So if your partner doesn't want it, what's the point in wanting it ? It feels useless and more like a turn-off.

But I desired it a lot, until I realized that actually getting physical with her, isn't really anything like what I expected.

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Rising Sun

Yes but things change. If desire goes from spontaneous to responsive with time, I don't find the idea absurd or even surprising at all. Desire isn't the same depending on gender and from what I've seen, age too. Couples seem to become much more responsive than spontaneous with age.

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Yeah eventually you just get sick of not being wanted, and your body kind of turns off. That happened to me for sensual desire when I was with someone who stopped wanting to touch and kiss etc.. I just stopped wanting it and even got turned off by the idea of it, I think sex can be the same for some sexuals?

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Tarfeather

*shrug* I try to look at it like roller coasters. I don't get how it can be fun to go scream your head off with a bunch of strangers, while feeling like your stomach is up in your throat. But, some people enjoy it. And then, some people can only enjoy it if they go with a friend and mutually enjoy screaming their heads off together. Some people need to share it, some people don't. Sex can be fun for the physical pleasure, or emotional, or both for people.

There are all these subtle, implicit interactions we humans have just by looking at each other, and when I go out there and look at someone, regardless of who it is other than a good friend, it's just constant "reject reject reject". I used to think, I want sex or romance or whatever, because my primal desires were telling me so. That I wanted the physical experience of sex, or the literal words "I love you". Now I understand, I want the full set of subtle, meaningful interactions. I want to be able to talk to people and have it not be "reject reject reject" all the time. And I think if that happened, then the other stuff wouldn't be an issue. If all the subconscious, subtle interactions went "right", if I were actually able to connect with other people, then these "more visible" interactions like romance, sex and so on would eventually follow naturally. They're not in and of themselves what defines a relationship, rather they build on the framework of all the more subtle, less concsious interpersonal interactions, and that's where I need to put my attention.

If you don't see that, that probably means for you all the subtle, unconscious stuff is going right automatically, and you can afford to view the world only in terms of the larger, more obvious stuff. Some people might really think, sex is as simple as going out there and looking for someone to have sex with, because all the little nuance and detail it takes to get someone else in the "mood" to want to be intimate with you, comes natural and intuitively to them, and isn't even worth consideration.

And all this ironically also applies to your example. If I sat in a roller coaster with a bunch of strangers, I wouldn't be part of that group, part of that experience. I'd just be isolated and weird everyone out. Things aren't that simple for everyone, sadly.

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Tarfeather

Yeah eventually you just get sick of not being wanted, and your body kind of turns off. That happened to me for sensual desire when I was with someone who stopped wanting to touch and kiss etc.. I just stopped wanting it and even got turned off by the idea of it, I think sex can be the same for some sexuals?

No, my body doesn't turn off. I can be very physically intimate with her. I just don't desire sex. It's weird.

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Tarfeather

So what's up with people who will pay a prostitute just to go through the physical motions? Or someone who will rape an unconscious person? What's the point? Even disregarding all morals, why would anyone do that?

It's simple biology. Our brains just work like that. When we know something feels good, we generally want to indulge in it as much as possible (whether it's sex, cigarettes, alcohol... or cake, apparently), it activates the reward system in our brain and floods it with dopamine, which pretty much tells us "this is great, I want more".

Being able to control ourselves and put another person's needs first rather than our own IS a matter of morals. Matter of knowing what's right and wrong. Simple as that.

Masturbation?

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I also thought I wanted sex, but the reality is I no longer care. My brain still goes nuts about bodies in the same way, but I just shrug it off. It's like

Brain: "Look! Hot stuff!" *visualises dirty thoughts and suggests ideas*

Me: "So what? Calm down, dude... You're boring."

And I had a chance... and chickened out. I don't know, it's... it just didn't have the appeal, y'know. It doesn't make sense. If you knew how crazy about sex my brain is. It's not even hormones. I was thinking about sex when I was 9. At 15 I got scared of my own thougths. At some point it became a fever that consumed my body and mind. And then... I got the chance and something just didn't feel right. The real thing must be ... spiritual? About harmonising energies. About some sort of resonance. Yeah... I sound wierd. But there is a world of difference between people who are just physically appealing and those whose touch makes you shiver and to whom you feel something like an ancient song, with whom you have an almost thelepatic connection.

Now I understand, I want the full set of subtle, meaningful interactions.

Yeah.

Those are everything, not only when it comes to sex. The in between the lines.

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Why do people desire sex with someone, who doesn't want it? What's the point of having sex with an asexual partner when the asexual partner doesn't enjoy it? What's the point in trying to get someone to have sex with you? What value does sex have, if the other doesn't intrinsically desire it?

Not everyone particularly cares what the other person wants (or at least, it doesn't influence what they want)

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No, my body doesn't turn off. I can be very physically intimate with her. I just don't desire sex. It's weird.

Yeah eventually you just get sick of not being wanted, and your body kind of turns off.

This is correct, I believe. Not wanting to have sex with her anymore is your body's defense mechanism against rejection. You know sex is not going to happen with her and you've pretty much "trained" yourself not to desire it...

That's what I was meaning Tar, what chimera said. I didn't mean your body itself ''turns off'' (sorry I should have worded it better) , I meant your body's (or wherever that innate desire comes from, the mind or whatever) the ability/mechanism to desire that sexual intimacy turns off.. the desire sort of gives up after a long enough time of systematic rejection without hope of things changing. Physical intimacy is one thing, but the desire for sex itself is something different.

I know for me with the sensual intimacy (that's you know, long kisses, roleplay, kink, whatever) it got to the point that after long enough of being denied it I just stopped wanting it and even if he asked (when he decided he wanted it again) I'd turn it down, even though to begin with I was very sensual and would sometimes end up begging for that and not getting it. How chimera worded it is good.. it's like whatever the innate mechanism is within you (that causes you to want that with that person) turns off, as a defence against the pain (and the mental and emotional toll) of all that rejection with no hope in sight of change.

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Telecaster68

No, my body doesn't turn off. I can be very physically intimate with her. I just don't desire sex. It's weird.

Yeah eventually you just get sick of not being wanted, and your body kind of turns off.

This is correct, I believe. Not wanting to have sex with her anymore is your body's defense mechanism against rejection. You know sex is not going to happen with her and you've pretty much "trained" yourself not to desire it...

That's what I was meaning Tar, what chimera said. I didn't mean your body itself ''turns off'' (sorry I should have worded it better) , I meant your body's (or wherever that innate desire comes from, the mind or whatever) the ability/mechanism to desire that sexual intimacy turns off.. the desire sort of gives up after a long enough time of systematic rejection without hope of things changing. Physical intimacy is one thing, but the desire for sex itself is something different.

I know for me with the sensual intimacy (that's you know, long kisses, roleplay, kink, whatever) it got to the point that after long enough of being denied it I just stopped wanting it and even if he asked (when he decided he wanted it again) I'd turn it down, even though to begin with I was very sensual and would sometimes end up begging for that and not getting it. How chimera worded it is good.. it's like whatever the innate mechanism is within you (that causes you to want that with that person) turns off, as a defence against the pain (and the mental and emotional toll) of all that rejection with no hope in sight of change.

Yep, that's what happens. It's defensive, and to an extent people in that position seem to engage in some post facto rationalisation of it - that's when you see the 'I hated having no sex at first but now we've found a higher plane of our relationship' type posts. I'm pretty sure that if the asexual partner shifted to some kind sexuality again, the sexual partner would eventually, after enough coaxing, sensitivity and consistency, discover actually they did want sex again, and bugger the 'higher plane'. A lot of it's down to neuroplasticity, I'm sure.

I agree with Tar though - sex is an expression of something that already exists, and it's the most intense, direct, fun, visceral expression (at its best. Sometimes one element is more prevalent than the others). As Skulls says, sometimes fun predominates. It's the reason that sexuals need to be needed by their partners, sexually: without being needed it's unrequited, just like unrequited love, and it's an intense, direct, visceral version of unrequitedness.

Also, in Tar's case, he's never been banged senseless by a wildly horny, passionate partner, so it's easier to let go of what's essentially still a fantasy rather than a reality. I don't think it's responsive desire, in the usual sense. Responsive desire works more directly, rather than on a macro, never-gonna-happen way.

Serran's roller coaster ride analogy is good, but I'd add that it's not just the physical ups and downs - it's the adrenalin fuelled bonding that happens during the ups and downs, too. Like, afterwards, getting out of the cars, legs a bit shakey, looking at each other knowing you all just shared something together. The emotions and the physical reaction blend together intoxicatingly.

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Tarfeather

Yep, that's what happens. It's defensive, and to an extent people in that position seem to engage in some post facto rationalisation of it - that's when you see the 'I hated having no sex at first but now we've found a higher plane of our relationship' type posts. I'm pretty sure that if the asexual partner shifted to some kind sexuality again, the sexual partner would eventually, after enough coaxing, sensitivity and consistency, discover actually they did want sex again, and bugger the 'higher plane'. A lot of it's down to neuroplasticity, I'm sure.

Instead of "higher plane of relationship", you might also simply call it "friendship", for that's what it is.

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Why do people desire sex with someone, who doesn't want it? What's the point of having sex with an asexual partner when the asexual partner doesn't enjoy it? What's the point in trying to get someone to have sex with you?

Great question, I have asked myself the same before. Actually I experienced the same phenomenon on a non-sexual level a few months ago, causing this very question. Thanks to all of you for the input so far!

Another question (this is no attempt of thread-napping!):

Why are people having sex with someone they're going to break up with? They're in a relationship they feel isn't working out so they want to break up in the near future... yet they still share this enormous amount of intimacy with someone they are going to ged rid of.

Why is that?

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Telecaster68

I agree, but there's posters (sexual and asexual) who strongly imply that without sex they've somehow found a higher plane. And there's plenty of aro-aces, QPR people, etc who'd differentiate friendships from sexless relationships.

Or are you saying 'friendship' is a higher plane of relationship? I'd strongly disagree. They all have their place.

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Telecaster68

Why are people having sex with someone they're going to break up with? They're in a relationship they feel isn't working out so they want to break up in the near future... yet they still share this enormous amount of intimacy with someone they are going to ged rid of.

Why is that?

It happens, though often sex is the first thing to go rather than the last. Two reasons I'd guess: they're not breaking up from lack of attraction, and they both still want sex, and their partner's there, and a known quantity, and willing. Or rationally they know that's where the relationship is going for whatever reason, and breaking up is the sensible thing to do, but the tumult around a relationship break up results in moments where they want to try to make it work, and 'make up sex' is a Thing.

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Why are people having sex with someone they're going to break up with? They're in a relationship they feel isn't working out so they want to break up in the near future... yet they still share this enormous amount of intimacy with someone they are going to ged rid of.

Why is that?

I've no idea. If the relationship was for sex in the first place or sex holds, then why break up? And if not - why build intimacy to only have more to break down later and for the breakup to be more painful?

Yep, that's what happens. It's defensive, and to an extent people in that position seem to engage in some post facto rationalisation of it - that's when you see the 'I hated having no sex at first but now we've found a higher plane of our relationship' type posts. I'm pretty sure that if the asexual partner shifted to some kind sexuality again, the sexual partner would eventually, after enough coaxing, sensitivity and consistency, discover actually they did want sex again, and bugger the 'higher plane'. A lot of it's down to neuroplasticity, I'm sure.


Instead of "higher plane of relationship", you might also simply call it "friendship", for that's what it is.

No, it's not friendship. I'm great friends with that guy and I find him physically attractive and on the brain level it works. I could. Something lacked.

It must be the togetherness, certain synchronisation. If it was a different person... ;)

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To me, friendship is pretty much the highest level imaginable between two people. There really aren't many people whom I refer by that word; most folks I socialize with, even regularly and with mutual liking, are just acquaintances, not friends, to me. But when talking about partner relationships, friendship is only a "higher plane" if the relationship was messed up to begin with, in the way that you weren't even friends before. F*** buddies, maybe... or even f*** buddies romantically obsessed with each other. (I suspect that's more common a thing than it has any right to be. :p )

In any healthy partnership, I see friendship as the base, core, and foundation... onto which then various "benefits" (of which sex is just one possibility, albeit obviously a very, very common one) can get added.

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Tarfeather

Uhm.. you didn't want to post that after all, Skulls? ^^

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