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Transitioning to... intersex?


Remy Hewson

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Remy Hewson

Hello, I do not know if this is the right place to clear my doubt, but I really need an answer. I apologize for my bad English, I only speak Spanish, lol.

I was wondering what is the term, the name, for people who are transsexual but not in the """traditional""" way... I mean those born with one of the two "traditional" sexes, female or male, and transition into intersex, Do you understand my question? I really need an answer... many thanks for space.

(I apologize in advance if I used bad any terms, because, as I said, I do not speak English.)

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Hi Remy. I'm just like you, wanting a mix of both sets of genitalia.

It's actually impossible to transition to intersex, because intersex is a medical condition from birth. I don't think it's impossible to transition to have a mix of both kinds of genitalia, however you won't be intersex. More like an androgynous-type sex. Some use FtN or MtN (Male/Female to Neutral/Neutrois) to describe this transition, however that itself can be misleading since the majority of those who use that mean they don't want any genitalia.

Maybe FtA or MtA (Female/Male to Androgyne) can be a thing?

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CheekyStoat

Well, let's not tell someone how they feel and what they can (or can't) identify as. Maybe they really do want both sets of genitalia. I've met people who've identified as intersex.

Sadly, I've never heard of anyone being able to surgically get both sets though.

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Well, let's not tell someone how they feel and what they can (or can't) identify as. Maybe they really do want both sets of genitalia. I've met people who've identified as intersex.

Sadly, I've never heard of anyone being able to surgically get both sets though.

It's not a matter of me telling them they can't identify as that, it's just that physically it is impossible to be intersex. It's a medical condition. Also, a lot of intersex individuals take offense to people saying they are transitioning to intersex, so it's corteous to the intersex community that you don't treat their condition as an identity that anyone can pick up on.
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ChillaKilla

Yeah, intersex is a medical condition not an identity. A more appropriate word would be bigender or androgyne.

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Remy Hewson

Oh! Hello! I'm so happy that you have written... a few minutes before making this post at dawn, was the first time I read (in this exactly forum) someone talking about this issue and I knew I was not crazy, that I was not alone. I really appreciate a lot for your answers.

On the topic that brings us together, I think here the language is hindering us things because, because, as I said, I speak Spanish (I'm writing this with the help of Google Translate, lol), and the terms vary greatly among languages.

In Spanish, it works like this: Transgender and transsexual are not the same. Transgender is the one who is not identified with the socially assigned gender at birth, and transsexual is The one who is not identified with the sex they were born. In Spanish, gender, sex, and genitalia, they are not the same. The genres are identities, sex is chromosomal, and genitals is one of the ways in which sex is manifested. Genres are woman, man, and genderqueer (which includes many other identities, obviously, as bigender). Sexes are female, male, and intersexual. It is known that sex can not be changed (you can change the genitals) so I can not BE intersex because it is chromosomal and I'm born with female sex... but I think the issue goes beyond that. A transsexual man who takes hormone treatments and "peneplastia" is done (I do not know how to write in English and the translator does not have the word, sorry... I mean the medical procedure similar to a vaginoplasty, but instead for a vagina, for a penis, "Penisplasty"?), is said to transitions female to male, although these are sexes (chromosome, as intersex) , but understands what they mean... that's what I want. I want to know if there is a term to identify people who seek to transition from male or female (sex or genitalia) to intersexual.

I apologize for all the explanation of the terminology, it's just that I think that in English and Spanish are handled differently. I really hope that nothing I have said "thinking in Spanish" is offensive reading in English... I swear thar in Spanish I am very careful and respectful with terminology, it's just hard to find the right word in a foreign language.

Thanks for reading, for the patience and for the help!

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Generally speaking, you could get phalloplasty and keep your vagina if you're AFAB.. But you're going to have to go through hormonal transition to be male to facilitate that physically (and pass as male for 1-2 years publicly to get it medically approved). If you're AMAB, they use the penis to create the vagina for MtFs, so that isn't physically possible to have both sets of genitalia that way. You can transition to neutrois and nullify your genitalia completely- as in it's possible, but willing and/or experienced doctors are hard to find..

And you shouldn't use the term intersex unless you were born with a medical condition making you that way- use non-binary/bigender/androgyne.

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CheekyStoat

I do know what intersex is, but technically people could argue that being male or female is a genetic condition. ;D I just don't think it's anyone's place to say what they can (or can't) identify as. If you can, then others can tell us.

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Gnotknormal

If you identify as without gender or between genders you might say you're "agender" meaning no gender. Or you could be "bigender" meaning two genders (but I argue this because it implies a gender binary world), or you could say you're "pangender" meaning you feel all genders.

You can transition to agender or pangender, just as you can to male or female as they are all legitimate gender identities. And you can choose to have physical changes to incorporate that, but it's important to say that you don't have to do anything to affirm your gender identity, if you feel agender/pangender, then you are.

Transitioning refers to changing your life to live as your chosen gender. It does not strictly refer to a physical transition as some people might think. When a person is trans, they transition socially, and personally above any physical changes. Some people will change their name, and tell their peers to use preferred pronouns and they are happy with that - and they have still transitioned. Or they might take hormones and have no ops. It's all personal to the person.

Hope this helps xx

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Remy Hewson

Chardog: Precisely because it is not correct to use the term intersex because it is a condition with which one is born or not, because it is something chromosome, is that I wrote this post... I'm wondering what is the correct term for people who make this transition. Bigender is not the term I 'm looking for, as I said, bigender is in the field of gender and I 'm asking about the field of the sexes.

CheekyStoat: Thank you very much!

Gnotknormal: I think you should read the commentary when I explained the terminology I use because I speak Spanish, not English, so some misunderstandings are created for that. I do not know how is in English, but Spanish is not the same transgender and transsexual. It is not the same gender, sex, and genitalia. And in Spanish, male, female, and intersex, are things of the field of sex (woman, man, and all that encompasses the term genderqueer, including agender and bigender, for example , are things of the field of gender)... so, I'm only asking about things related to the field of sex, nothing about gender, and it's about what you write me.

Anyway, thank you very much for taking the time to write me.

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Remy Hewson

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I do know what intersex is, but technically people could argue that being male or female is a genetic condition. ;D I just don't think it's anyone's place to say what they can (or can't) identify as. If you can, then others can tell us.

And I would argue that being male or female doesn't come with complications such as infertility, chromosomal ambiguity, genital complications, medical complications with puberty, as well as a general social stigma that they are "broken", "defective", "unwanted", or "need to be fixed". It is very much possible for an intersex individual to experience any or all of these.

Intersex is an exclusive community. It is rude to the intersex community to just start calling yourself intersex because you want to be one. Also, I'm not saying that their identity is invalid, I'm just saying that they should use a different word other than "intersex", because that's the wrong word to use.

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Remy Hewson

Yeees, do not fight, please!

Because I know that it is not correct to use the term intersex because it is a condition with which one is born or not, because it is something chromosome, is that I wrote this post... I'm just wondering what is the correct term for people who make this specific transition, can you tell???

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Yeees, do not fight, please!

Because I know that it is not correct to use the term intersex because it is a condition with which one is born or not, because it is something chromosome, is that I wrote this post... I'm just wondering what is the correct term for people who make this specific transition, can you tell???

Right, sorry. :)

I would say that F/MtN (Female/Male to Neutral/Neutrois) would be the most accurate, though it's misleading so maybe a new word can be used to describe the transition, such as F/MtA (Female/Male to Androgyne). I hope this helps!

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I do know what intersex is, but technically people could argue that being male or female is a genetic condition. ;D I just don't think it's anyone's place to say what they can (or can't) identify as. If you can, then others can tell us.

You're little winky/smiley face insinuates that you think you're being funny.. You're being outright disrespectful to people who are intersex and often have surgeries performed on them at birth that cause a lot of issues, among other complications that they go through. Some terms shouldn't be appropriated when they specifically refer to something that is a concrete medical diagnosis.

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Remy Hewson

I would say that F/MtN (Female/Male to Neutral/Neutrois) would be the most accurate, though it's misleading so maybe a new word can be used to describe the transition, such as F/MtA (Female/Male to Androgyne). I hope this helps!

Thank you very much! So it would be "FtN transsexual" or "FtA transsexual", right? :)

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I would say that F/MtN (Female/Male to Neutral/Neutrois) would be the most accurate, though it's misleading so maybe a new word can be used to describe the transition, such as F/MtA (Female/Male to Androgyne). I hope this helps!

Thank you very much! So it would be "FtN transsexual" or "FtA transsexual", right? :)
Yep! :D
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Remy Hewson

I would say that F/MtN (Female/Male to Neutral/Neutrois) would be the most accurate, though it's misleading so maybe a new word can be used to describe the transition, such as F/MtA (Female/Male to Androgyne). I hope this helps!

Thank you very much! So it would be "FtN transsexual" or "FtA transsexual", right? :)
Yep! :D

Wow! Thank you very much! I always had a little fear to brand me as a transsexual because it is not to feminine or masculine... wow, lol, thanks!!! <3

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CheekyStoat

I'm not trying to insult anyone or play anyone's experiences down. I was trying to keep thing light when I said that in a way being male or female is genetic condition as well. I'm very sorry that you've been upset by it. But where you are born female, male, or intersex I see it just as viable as a gender identity. And I restate that I don't think it's anyone's place to say what someone can and can't identify as.

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ChillaKilla

I'm not trying to insult anyone or play anyone's experiences down. I was trying to keep thing light when I said that in a way being male or female is genetic condition as well. I'm very sorry that you've been upset by it. But where you are born female, male, or intersex I see it just as viable as a gender identity. And I restate that I don't think it's anyone's place to say what someone can and can't identify as.

But intersex is LITERALLY different than male or female. It's as much an identity as cerebral palsy is. It refers to abnormal chromosomal disorders, ambiguous genitalia, or vestigial reproductive organs. It's not an identity. I'm intersex and would know.

http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

Key words: Born With. It's a medical condition that can have severely detrimental effects. No matter how hard you try, dyadic people won't be intersex.

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The word you're looking for is either null or androgynous. If you are transitioning so that you have no sexual characteristics (eg no breasts, no genitalia of either sex), then null or neutral are the words to decribe that. If you want sexual characteristics from both of the binary sexes (eg breasts and male genitalia) then androgynous is your word.

Does that help?

It's considered wrong to use the word intersex for that. I know what you were trying to get at, but intersex refers specifically to a medical condition, one that a doctor diagnoses you with at birth. So it's slightly different :)

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Winter Holly

Remy, I think no one here was doubting that you are being respectful and only made an innocent mistake. I thank you for showing the respect that you do. They were just discussing the issue you accidentally raised in order to help some one else understand why it's offensive to some.

I myself get very uncomfortable any time I see "female" and "male" used to refer to gender rather than using "feminine" and "masculine," because grasping and respecting the conceptual distinction between sex and gender is close to the heart of the fight for the dignity of people of sex minority, sexual minority, gender minority, romantic minority, and every ally who cares deeply about any members of those minorities. I am a transsexual woman and my sibling and best friend is a genderqueer person. (who seems nonchalant about choosing an identity label) I'm not "male-to-female," because I will never have a functioning uterus and the ability to use it. I'm male-to-neuter. I was a male woman, and now I'm a neuter woman. I am not a gender minority, I'm plain ordinary everyday feminine. I'm a sex minority, not to be confused with sexual minority, though I also happen to be that too. My sex and my medical conditions are not definitive of my identity, and to expect that they are is to deny the ethical primacy of my psyche before my body. There is a difference between _what_ I am and _who_ I am.

Full disclosure: I do not, to my knowledge, have any intersex condition, but I have two unrelated parts of my personal history which have overlapping issues in terms of bodily integrity violation and social oppression, so I might be more sympathetic to that than typical for a dyadic who doesn't know or suspect any one close to her to have an intersex condition. It is for similar reasons that I avoid describing my mental health issues in terms of diagnostic terms for which I have never been professionally evaluated, except with mental health and medical professionals to whom I have made clear what I mean when I describe my issues in comparison to symptom clusters and other criteria I've read about. Some labels, including medical diagnoses, are very important tools for helping those of us with minority needs, including ability to communicate those needs as fully and unambiguously as possible to people with a need to know. That purpose is undermined by appropriation, which is why so many people of so many minorities are saying that appropriation is oppression. It is oppression.

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CheekyStoat

Again...I'm aware of what intersex is. Won't stop people from identifying as they will. And I hope that I never stop saying that it's no one's place to decide what identities are allowed and which ones aren't. That's dangerous territory. Again, I'm not trying to insult you, or belittle your experiences. I have made friends with people who very sincerely identified as intersex. Sorry if that upsets you.

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Remy Hewson

Remy, I think no one here was doubting that you are being respectful and only made an innocent mistake. I thank you for showing the respect that you do. They were just discussing the issue you accidentally raised in order to help some one else understand why it's offensive to some.

I myself get very uncomfortable any time I see "female" and "male" used to refer to gender rather than using "feminine" and "masculine," because grasping and respecting the conceptual distinction between sex and gender is close to the heart of the fight for the dignity of people of sex minority, sexual minority, gender minority, romantic minority, and every ally who cares deeply about any members of those minorities. I am a transsexual woman and my sibling and best friend is a genderqueer person. (who seems nonchalant about choosing an identity label) I'm not "male-to-female," because I will never have a functioning uterus and the ability to use it. I'm male-to-neuter. I was a male woman, and now I'm a neuter woman. I am not a gender minority, I'm plain ordinary everyday feminine. I'm a sex minority, not to be confused with sexual minority, though I also happen to be that too. My sex and my medical conditions are not definitive of my identity, and to expect that they are is to deny the ethical primacy of my psyche before my body. There is a difference between _what_ I am and _who_ I am.

Full disclosure: I do not, to my knowledge, have any intersex condition, but I have two unrelated parts of my personal history which have overlapping issues in terms of bodily integrity violation and social oppression, so I might be more sympathetic to that than typical for a dyadic who doesn't know or suspect any one close to her to have an intersex condition. It is for similar reasons that I avoid describing my mental health issues in terms of diagnostic terms for which I have never been professionally evaluated, except with mental health and medical professionals to whom I have made clear what I mean when I describe my issues in comparison to symptom clusters and other criteria I've read about. Some labels, including medical diagnoses, are very important tools for helping those of us with minority needs, including ability to communicate those needs as fully and unambiguously as possible to people with a need to know. That purpose is undermined by appropriation, which is why so many people of so many minorities are saying that appropriation is oppression. It is oppression.

Wow, thank you so much, Winter Day, Your answer is great!

I do not have much to answer, but I wanted to write these little lines to thank you, thanks! :) <3

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