What comes first, the orientation or the crush?

[Eline]

Obviously, the orientation comes before the crush. It is usually said that you're born with your sexuality and even though it can be a bit fluid, you can't decide it yourself.
Knowing this, Do you actually know your sexuality before you get your first crush?

The reason I'm asking this (maybe strange) question is this, I'm 21 now and I've never had a crush so far. I've never liked anyone in 'that' way or felt any attraction toward anyone.
I had always assumed to be straight-by-default but at the end of the teenage years, I started to doubt that and considered some other options. Sadly, those other options didn't make me feel any butterflies either.
I now am at a point where I really don't know what gender I'm supposed to feel attracted to. Maybe it's because I've just not experienced a crush and I just have to wait for that. But how do you do the dating thing if you don't even know who to go for?!
My question is therefore; Do you have to have had a crush before you know your sexuality?

I hope I've explained myself and my question well enough (not a native english speaker and also not very knowledgable on the subject)
Any kind of insight would be very helpful!
Thanks in advance!!

[Star Bit]

No, the crush happens first and thus you then know your romantic orientation.

Your logic would mean people who innitially thought they were straight and ended up being gay are then bi. No. If someone says they knew before their first crush then they most likely forgot about their actual first crush (or first lust)/didn't recognize it as such when it happened.

And you don't need a crush to know your sexual orientation; romantic and sexual orientations are two different things. You should've had your first crush at your age, so it's most likely not going to happen, which means you may be aromantic and asexual.

[Eline]

Some people know very early on that they are homosexual. Does that mean that those people had crushes when they were still kids? Most bisexuals/homosexuals say that they always 'knew' even if they didn't actually realise it untill they were a bit older. Would it also imply that, if you've had two crushes which happened to be on girls, that you assume yourself to be straight/gay even if they, in reality, you would be bisexual but the third crush would happen years later?

[Autumn Season]

I consider myself heteroromantic because I have crushes on guys. I identify as asexual because in all the situations I thought I might want to be sexual with another, my feelings were the opposite of what I imagined to happen.

I'd say: If you feel aro/ace at the moment, you can use the label(s) and later you can change the label(s) if you change/ experience something new.

[AceInhibitor]

Well, I figured that I was straight for a long time, partly because hello heteronormativity everywhere, and because my first crush was on a boy, and pretty much all my crushes after that. And because people generally assume everyone's straight unless stated otherwise I didn't think too hard about it, apart from developing a strange fascination with that crushes girlfriend several years later and assuming it was because I was just jealous of her hair (pretty sure I had a bit of a crush on her actually but I can't say for sure because I was up to my eyes in internalised homophobia so I didn't mind if anyone else was gay, but I 'couldn't afford to be gay'). I genuinely thought I was entirely straight until I was about 17 at which point I'd got rid of some of my internalised crap (but not all of it) and was like 'Yeah but I might like girls, how would I know? It's not like this school is the best place to realise you're bi' so I was questioning when I started university but I didn't actually have a crush on a girl until about two years later by which point I'd convinced myself I was just kidding myself and 'trying' to be bi because 'that's what you do at university'. And because girls talking about their celebrity 'girlcrushes' is quite common, I figured I was just kind of overplaying my interest in pretty actresses, whereas when it was boys I had a celebrity crush on Tom Felton when I was pretty young and just assumed I was straight without worrying about it at all. I think I kind of always knew I was asexual but I just assumed that was because I was so young, and I thought I'd just grow into it if I met someone I really liked. Realised a lot later that even when I liked people I was actually just incredibly grateful that they weren't trying to have sex with me, so that kind of settled it after that.

So in a roundabout way what I was trying to say is that I think because society tends to assume everyone's straight, you might have a label you use before you have your first actual crush (usually straight) but you don't generally know your orientation until you've experienced attraction towards someone, or a lack of attraction to someone, and even then you might not know (like me). So changing your labels is totally cool, your orientation is part of your identity and it's not up to anyone else to dictate what you are and are not feeling. So if you haven't felt any attraction to anyone and you want to label yourself aro, roll with it.

[Star Bit]

Some people know very early on that they are homosexual. Does that mean that those people had crushes when they were still kids? Most bisexuals/homosexuals say that they always 'knew' even if they didn't actually realise it untill they were a bit older. Would it also imply that, if you've had two crushes which happened to be on girls, that you assume yourself to be straight/gay even if they, in reality, you would be bisexual but the third crush would happen years later?

Yah, but people can get crushes at early ages, so as i said; they didn't realize it as such or forgot about it; which both are understandable when you're like 4.

[Eline]

No, the crush happens first and thus you then know your romantic orientation.

Your logic would mean people who innitially thought they were straight and ended up being gay are then bi. No. If someone says they knew before their first crush then they most likely forgot about their actual first crush (or first lust)/didn't recognize it as such when it happened.

And you don't need a crush to know your sexual orientation; romantic and sexual orientations are two different things. You should've had your first crush at your age, so it's most likely not going to happen, which means you may be aromantic and asexual.

I have familiarized myself a bit with asexual now (I'm still fairly new to this page and the discovering of things) but I suppose it would be useful to learn some more about the aromantic subject. If I really should know by now what gender I'm supposed to be attracted to, opening op the aromatic possibility could be useful.

Thank you for your reply and the advice/insight!

[Eline]

Well, I figured that I was straight for a long time, partly because hello heteronormativity everywhere, and because my first crush was on a boy, and pretty much all my crushes after that. And because people generally assume everyone's straight unless stated otherwise I didn't think too hard about it, apart from developing a strange fascination with that crushes girlfriend several years later and assuming it was because I was just jealous of her hair (pretty sure I had a bit of a crush on her actually but I can't say for sure because I was up to my eyes in internalised homophobia so I didn't mind if anyone else was gay, but I 'couldn't afford to be gay'). I genuinely thought I was entirely straight until I was about 17 at which point I'd got rid of some of my internalised crap (but not all of it) and was like 'Yeah but I might like girls, how would I know? It's not like this school is the best place to realise you're bi' so I was questioning when I started university but I didn't actually have a crush on a girl until about two years later by which point I'd convinced myself I was just kidding myself and 'trying' to be bi because 'that's what you do at university'. And because girls talking about their celebrity 'girlcrushes' is quite common, I figured I was just kind of overplaying my interest in pretty actresses, whereas when it was boys I had a celebrity crush on Tom Felton when I was pretty young and just assumed I was straight without worrying about it at all. I think I kind of always knew I was asexual but I just assumed that was because I was so young, and I thought I'd just grow into it if I met someone I really liked. Realised a lot later that even when I liked people I was actually just incredibly grateful that they weren't trying to have sex with me, so that kind of settled it after that.

So in a roundabout way what I was trying to say is that I think because society tends to assume everyone's straight, you might have a label you use before you have your first actual crush (usually straight) but you don't generally know your orientation until you've experienced attraction towards someone, or a lack of attraction to someone, and even then you might not know (like me). So changing your labels is totally cool, your orientation is part of your identity and it's not up to anyone else to dictate what you are and are not feeling. So if you haven't felt any attraction to anyone and you want to label yourself aro, roll with it.

Thanks for your reply.

When I realized I didn't really like boys in 'that' way I also got quite scared. It was exactly as you said, it was okay for others to be gay or bi or pan or anything like that but not for me. I might not have turned out to actually feel attracted to girls, I feared it a lot for a while.

The labeling still seems a bit scary to me. There's so much I don't know yet. And truth be told, I had heard of the aromantic orientation before but had avoided it on purpose because it scared me to possibly not ever feel like they do in the movies.

I've had two people now who suggested aro to me so I feel like it might be time to investigate that.

Thank you for sharing. This site and the people are very kind and helpful so that helps a lot!

[AceInhibitor]

Well, I figured that I was straight for a long time, partly because hello heteronormativity everywhere, and because my first crush was on a boy, and pretty much all my crushes after that. And because people generally assume everyone's straight unless stated otherwise I didn't think too hard about it, apart from developing a strange fascination with that crushes girlfriend several years later and assuming it was because I was just jealous of her hair (pretty sure I had a bit of a crush on her actually but I can't say for sure because I was up to my eyes in internalised homophobia so I didn't mind if anyone else was gay, but I 'couldn't afford to be gay'). I genuinely thought I was entirely straight until I was about 17 at which point I'd got rid of some of my internalised crap (but not all of it) and was like 'Yeah but I might like girls, how would I know? It's not like this school is the best place to realise you're bi' so I was questioning when I started university but I didn't actually have a crush on a girl until about two years later by which point I'd convinced myself I was just kidding myself and 'trying' to be bi because 'that's what you do at university'. And because girls talking about their celebrity 'girlcrushes' is quite common, I figured I was just kind of overplaying my interest in pretty actresses, whereas when it was boys I had a celebrity crush on Tom Felton when I was pretty young and just assumed I was straight without worrying about it at all. I think I kind of always knew I was asexual but I just assumed that was because I was so young, and I thought I'd just grow into it if I met someone I really liked. Realised a lot later that even when I liked people I was actually just incredibly grateful that they weren't trying to have sex with me, so that kind of settled it after that.

So in a roundabout way what I was trying to say is that I think because society tends to assume everyone's straight, you might have a label you use before you have your first actual crush (usually straight) but you don't generally know your orientation until you've experienced attraction towards someone, or a lack of attraction to someone, and even then you might not know (like me). So changing your labels is totally cool, your orientation is part of your identity and it's not up to anyone else to dictate what you are and are not feeling. So if you haven't felt any attraction to anyone and you want to label yourself aro, roll with it.

Thanks for your reply.

When I realized I didn't really like boys in 'that' way I also got quite scared. It was exactly as you said, it was okay for others to be gay or bi or pan or anything like that but not for me. I might not have turned out to actually feel attracted to girls, I feared it a lot for a while.

The labeling still seems a bit scary to me. There's so much I don't know yet. And truth be told, I had heard of the aromantic orientation before but had avoided it on purpose because it scared me to possibly not ever feel like they do in the movies.

I've had two people now who suggested aro to me so I feel like it might be time to investigate that.

Thank you for sharing. This site and the people are very kind and helpful so that helps a lot!

Honestly, don't worry about it a massive amount. You don't have to use any label if you don't want to. I held off on using asexual as a label for ages and just kept telling people that I'd never met anyone I liked enough to have sex with, and they generally accepted that (mostly because it implied that I'd eventually meet someone and want to have all the sex). And it's definitely harder if you've got this internalised idea that you can't be anything other than straight, that can take time to get round and get comfortable with. It took me about 2 and a half years of constantly questioning my orientation to work it out, and honestly it was just kind of chance that I had a crush on a girl. Took me by surprise a bit actually, but that was because they were my friend, not because they're a girl. So you might end up having attraction to someone one day, but not having it, that's ok too. It can just take a bit of adjusting to feel comfortable with certain labels and some people never want to label themselves, so just do whatever feels right.

[AVEN #1 fan]

In my opinion it's the crush, you never know if you like a gender or a sex before crushing on them. Like poly-sexual/romantic people get those feelings all the time , and I also belive love gets people lost.

I also heard the story of a guy who wasn't bisexual til he realized he liked his roommate.

[Philip027]

Do you have to have had a crush before you know your sexuality?

No. Many people are aware of whether they're straight/gay/whatever before ever experiencing crushes, relationships, or what have you.

I knew I was heteroromantic before I ever experienced any sort of crush. All I lacked was a name for the term. Until then I was awkwardly explaining myself as "straight, but not in a sexual way"

[nanogretchen4]

Keep in mind that the gay rights movement was pushing a "born that way" model of sexual orientation really hard from the 1970's until quite recently. No one knew for sure one way or another, though I think it's actually more plausible than the environmental theory. At any rate, the environmental theory led to extreme paranoia that gays were recruiting or should be kept away from children in case it was contagious. So there was a standard gay narrative that included having known from a ridiculously early age and certainly never having been the teensiest bit bisexual. Young gay people absorbed this narrative from the community, and there was peer pressure to spin their own autobiography in a way that fit that model. Memory is malleable, especially when it comes to something as subjective as early childhood emotions. I won't say no gay person ever knew at age four, but far fewer than the number who say they knew.

[AceInhibitor]

Do you have to have had a crush before you know your sexuality?

No. Many people are aware of whether they're straight/gay/whatever before ever experiencing crushes, relationships, or what have you.

I knew I was heteroromantic before I ever experienced any sort of crush. All I lacked was a name for the term. Until then I was awkwardly explaining myself as "straight, but not in a sexual way"

That could potentially have been because of heteronormativity though. It's not hugely common to realise your sexuality before you've experienced attraction, or noted a lack of it.

[AceInhibitor]

In my opinion it's the crush, you never know if you like a gender or a sex before crushing on them. Like poly-sexual/romantic people get those feelings all the time , and I also belive love gets people lost.

I also heard the story of a guy who wasn't bisexual til he realized he liked his roommate.

Love definitely gets you lost

Ouch. Poor guy. Crushing on people you live with is never fun.

[Snao Cone]

Some people require more first-hand concrete experience to know things about themselves, but some people don't. If you do feel lost or unsure without direct experiences, then I'd suggest keeping yourself open to experiences until you find something you like, as long as they're safe and relatively comfortable for you.

[Philip027]

That could potentially have been because of heteronormativity though.

Could have been for others, wasn't for me. Please don't assume you know me better than I do, thanks

It's not hugely common to realise your sexuality before you've experienced attraction, or noted a lack of it.

I agree, but that wasn't the question. The question was, do you HAVE to have experienced a crush before you can know what you are -- and the answer is no, because I didn't experience one until I was nearly 17 yet I still knew before then.

[Dollyrose09]

For me, no. I had like two crushes on boys growing up in high school. I hardly if ever thought about dating boys actually (just thought, like sex, it was something I'd want when I'm older) and the crushes I ended up having were on boys I had a good friendship with, taking me by surprise. I never thought to fully question my orientation, how I felt about women, because I assumed I was straight I mean I had two crushes on boys and internalized homophobia. Didn't know Demiromanticism was a thing either. I assumed what I felt towards women was normal even though in hindsight, that was hilariously wrong. Once I let myself be open to the fact that I liked women, I realized I had a crush on a girl I knew. I identify as gay and not bi-romantic because it's easier to explain.

I agree that sometimes you can be unaware of the extent of your feelings, but I feel like deep down you can tell something's up? Thoughts and feelings you push away as weird or coincidence, etc. That's how it was like being Demisexual. I had this feeling sometimes even if I couldn't understand yet.

[Star Bit]

Alot of aromantics innitially react to their orientation with the fear of "forever being alone", and that's not what aromantic means. Aromantics can be satisfied with having friends, close friends, best friends, or a queerplatonic relationship. Platonic love can be just as strong as romantic love.

[AceInhibitor]

That could potentially have been because of heteronormativity though.

Could have been for others, wasn't for me. Please don't assume you know me better than I do, thanks

It's not hugely common to realise your sexuality before you've experienced attraction, or noted a lack of it.

I agree, but that wasn't the question. The question was, do you HAVE to have experienced a crush before you can know what you are -- and the answer is no, because I didn't experience one until I was nearly 17 yet I still knew before then.

Sure, it's just that it can be that way for some people, that's all I meant.

[Star Bit]

But most people are romantic, and straight. You assuming you were one or both just ended up being coincidently right on overwhelmingly positive odds; the odds of being straight are about 96% and the odds of being romantic are like 99%. That doesn't add up to people factually knowing their orientation before their first crush/lust. That's like blaming someones christianity for their asexuality; it's just an extremely likely overlap because it's the most popular religion and most likely isn't the cause.

[Autumn Season]

Today I had a thought which reminded me of this thread. As I already said, I have crushes and because they're only on guys, I know I'm hetero. So there's that. But the thing is that I can feel romantically attracted to somebody without having a crush on them. A crush for me is when my world is centered around this one person, I get extreme emotional highs and lows in relation to them and whichever (emotional/ physical) boundaries I usually have, get blurry for them. When I am romantically attracted, I feel drawn towards the other and I know (emotionally) we have potential but this feeling never develops any further. This can be for many reasons. For example I am not able to fall in love with somebody who is already in a relationship, but I can still feel attracted. So I can see why somebody would say they know they are [orientation] without having had a crush before. (By the way romantic attraction for me feels different from a squish. It's more sensual.)

[Isak]

I have known that I was hetero since when I was little (kindergarten). I have never had an actual crush (or felt primary attraction), but I kind of relied on other people’s crushes on me (to make up for the lack of attraction on my side).

While I certainly appreciate the attention from both genders, when men show that they are into me, the idea of cuddling them or of even seeing them the way they see me makes me cringe (this is just my personal taste, not a moral judgment of any kind). This doesn’t happen with all women (and I have had a few girlfriends).

Do you ever fantasise about men or women? What do you feel if you do?

[Star Bit]

@Autumn

Crushes and romantic attraction are the exact same thing. Crushes are experienced with many variations. Some are light crushes, some are heavy crushes, sometimes they're paired with ABC feelings, sometimes they're paired with ACF feelings (i.e. "A" being the core similarity and the rest being other feelings), but they're all crushes. Thinking "i could get along with/date that person" isn't romantic attraction, it's just noticing potential or thinking they'd be a good partner in general (which explains why it never develops any further for you), but sometimes people notice attraction "sparks" that start off their romantic feelings, so maybe that's what you're experiencing (essentially a fetus crush rather than a baby crush lol), but I'd still put it under crush by default. So it sounds like you just experience two types of crushes, which is normal. Maybe "stunted crush" would be accurate for your second type of crush.

But there are cupioromantics (i.e. people who desire a romantic relationship but have never felt romantically), so for people who can never feel romantic attraction, they can know without it, obviously, but otherwise, yah, your crushes/lust tells you your orientation.

[Eline]

Today I had a thought which reminded me of this thread. As I already said, I have crushes and because they're only on guys, I know I'm hetero. So there's that. But the thing is that I can feel romantically attracted to somebody without having a crush on them. A crush for me is when my world is centered around this one person, I get extreme emotional highs and lows in relation to them and whichever (emotional/ physical) boundaries I usually have, get blurry for them. When I am romantically attracted, I feel drawn towards the other and I know (emotionally) we have potential but this feeling never develops any further. This can be for many reasons. For example I am not able to fall in love with somebody who is already in a relationship, but I can still feel attracted. So I can see why somebody would say they know they are [orientation] without having had a crush before. (By the way romantic attraction for me feels different from a squish. It's more sensual.)

Your distinction between a crush and an attraction (of the romantic/emotional kind) is very insightful. When I posted the question, I assumed them to be very much the same. When I came accross a thread a few days ago about how many crushes one has had, I was surprised by the low amount (because they all seemed very sure about their orientation even after one crush). Maybe those people used the same definitions of crush and attraction as you did.

That would also explain why some people say they know their orientation without having had a crush.

Sadly, it still doesn't help me discovering what I'm supposed to crush on but that's another problem entirely ^_^

But thank you for the distinction!

[Eline]

I have known that I was hetero since when I was little (kindergarten). I have never had an actual crush (or felt primary attraction), but I kind of relied on other people’s crushes on me (to make up for the lack of attraction on my side).

While I certainly appreciate the attention from both genders, when men show that they are into me, the idea of cuddling them or of even seeing them the way they see me makes me cringe (this is just my personal taste, not a moral judgment of any kind). This doesn’t happen with all women (and I have had a few girlfriends).

Do you ever fantasise about men or women? What do you feel if you do?

I have recently discovered via online-orientation-tests that I don't fantasize like I'm supposed to (according to the tests at least)

I don't fantasize in a romantic (or sexual) manner about men or women. Not with me involved or with persons who are not me (unless I'm thinking up a story in which one of the plotlines involve a romantic moment like a kiss or something. Even in this, the moment is more part of the bigger story than it is a moment in itself and it never goes anywhere 'mature')

When I make myself imagine such a situation of a romantic nature with me involved (as I try to do right now) it's a bit awkward and I don't know where my knowledge of the subject learned by books and movies ends and my own fantasy takes over but it doesnt really invoke a reaction I think (not good or cringy. I draw a blank here). I expect myself to react to guys more (probability-chances) but I don't know what the signs of the reaction are supposed to be.

I do not have any real life experience in that area (not kissing/hand holding or anything) so maybe that plays a part in all this.

I must sound rather odd but I hope I've explained it a bit and in a way that someone might have some advise.

[Star Bit]

Not every romantic person romantically fantasizes about their crush, just like not every sexual person sexually fantasizes about their partner or someone they're sexually attracted to. Either feeling romantically about people or desiring a romantic relationship is what makes a romantic orientation.

@Autumn

I forgot to say that sometimes that "spark" can be types of attraction, so maybe you feel emotional attraction (i.e. fixated on someone due to their emotions/personality; like a favorite character or admiration) before a crush sets in, or you just feel emotional attraction on its own sometimes and notice your comparability potential (which is not a crush/pre-crush but a platonic feeling).

Is it something like *emotional attraction/drawn toward feeling* (for me my brain goes this way because i don't know what type of person triggers my romantic attraction, but it could also be because the feeling is commonly associated with romantic attraction) "well, what if you dated them? Do you think you'd get along?" (possibly also "you two seem alike, maybe you could be romantically compatible")

[Autumn Season]

@Autumn

I forgot to say that sometimes that "spark" can be types of attraction, so maybe you feel emotional attraction (i.e. fixated on someone due to their emotions/personality; like a favorite character or admiration) before a crush sets in, or you just feel emotional attraction on its own sometimes and notice your comparability potential possibly because the emotion is commonly associated with crushes (which is not a crush/pre-crush).

No, sorry. Of course my romantic feelings are a mix of all kinds of attractions, but they definitely have a romantic element to them.

[Star Bit]

Well, emotional attraction can be read as having a romantic element. For example, among a group fangirling over Loki one of them says "but i don't feel sexually or romantically about him" and the other girls are like "but you react strongly like us, how can you not?" (of course emotional attraction has varying degrees of intensity)

[Residentshadow]

I think it depends on the person. I had a feeling I was Bi-romantic since Kindergarten but it wasn't until I develop a crush on a friend and we had a day at the beach together for me to realize I was Ace.

[Isak]

I have known that I was hetero since when I was little (kindergarten). I have never had an actual crush (or felt primary attraction), but I kind of relied on other people’s crushes on me (to make up for the lack of attraction on my side).

While I certainly appreciate the attention from both genders, when men show that they are into me, the idea of cuddling them or of even seeing them the way they see me makes me cringe (this is just my personal taste, not a moral judgment of any kind). This doesn’t happen with all women (and I have had a few girlfriends).

Do you ever fantasise about men or women? What do you feel if you do?

I have recently discovered via online-orientation-tests that I don't fantasize like I'm supposed to (according to the tests at least)

I don't fantasize in a romantic (or sexual) manner about men or women. Not with me involved or with persons who are not me (unless I'm thinking up a story in which one of the plotlines involve a romantic moment like a kiss or something. Even in this, the moment is more part of the bigger story than it is a moment in itself and it never goes anywhere 'mature')

When I make myself imagine such a situation of a romantic nature with me involved (as I try to do right now) it's a bit awkward and I don't know where my knowledge of the subject learned by books and movies ends and my own fantasy takes over but it doesnt really invoke a reaction I think (not good or cringy. I draw a blank here). I expect myself to react to guys more (probability-chances) but I don't know what the signs of the reaction are supposed to be.

I do not have any real life experience in that area (not kissing/hand holding or anything) so maybe that plays a part in all this.

I must sound rather odd but I hope I've explained it a bit and in a way that someone might have some advise.

What you haven't experienced could be a clue that you are aromantic, or it could be that you simply haven't experienced those feelings yet, as you are still very young.

I realised that I'm demisexual only this year, and I'm 33. You still have plenty of time to figure it out. Keeping an open mind about it certainly helps :)