On wanting sex for pleasure

[binary suns]

Is there a clear difference between a sexual's desire for physical pleasure, and a desire for the function of physical pleasure? or would someone who finds sex agreeable enough to choose it interchangeably with masturbation always be a sexual or grey person?

This is a topic that I don't think has a lot of clarity and I've seen it come up often and usually is debated without a clear answer. I assume that desire for sex has multiple facets that are not all the same, but is there any way in which wanting sex because of the function of answering a libido is "asexual"? or is the idea only a fantasy, that an asexual person can find sex agreeable enough to choose to engage in it because it is functionally similar to masturbation? I feel like there is something fundamentally different in "sexual desire" than "desiring an answer to arousal" and I also feel that if there is indeed an "asexual desire for sex as a functional answer to arousal" that there would need to be some way to refer to it without confusing it with sexual "sexual desire"

the simplest form of this questions is:

does "asexual sexual desire" exist, where it is a conscious choice to have sex due to its function as an answer to libido?

[Guest]

If you actively (as in, would do it if you had the chance) want to have sex with someone else for sexual and/or emotional pleasure (even if just to scratch a 'sexual itch' or whatever) that's sexual, it's not asexual. That's all there is to it.

[Star Bit]

No, "asexual sexual desire" does not exist because asexuality is the opposite of sexuality (or absence there of), and the only requirement for sexuality is desiring sex, just as the only requirement for asexuality is not desiring sex. There are sexual and asexual people who are sex indifferent, so if someone finds sex and masturbation interchangeable then it's not exactly clear if the person is sexual or asexual. What makes a person sexual in that way is that they do desire sex, they're just indifferent if it's satisfied through sex, which can fall under Gray-sexual, but it does not make an asexual Gray.

Half, if not a majority of sexual people desire sex to satisfy their libido, it's normal.

[Sage Raven Domino]

To me, sex is significantly different from masturbation due to having a strong social component. Hence I don't see why an asexual would want to seek sex just to satisfy the libido - masturbation is a much easier method of accomplishing this.

[Guest]

The point of sex is pleasure. It can be emotional, physical, social, spiritual, but yeah, if you have sex for personal pleasure, regardless of the "variety" of pleasure, you're sexual.

[Sage Raven Domino]

To expand on my previous post, I can't think of a typical situation where one would have a sex opportunity but be forbidden from masturbating instead.

Even if an ace were trapped in an elevator with a pretty member of their favourite gender, the ace would normally either refrain altogether from satisfying the libido until being rescued or masturbate without involving the other person :P

[binary suns]

There are sexual and asexual people who are sex indifferent, so if someone finds sex and masturbation interchangeable then it's not exactly clear if the person is sexual or asexual.

So the person who is sex-indifferent... are they automatically grey? no ace can be sex-indifferent?

If someone can be sex-indifferent and be ace, then someone can be willing to have sex as a replacement to masturbation. but what is the line between having sex because of external needs or requests, and having sex that is available because it is efficient?

and, while I identify as grey for other reason, there is my personal case. due to being trans, I find masturbation to be unwantable. I would rather not masturbate. sex on the other hand, has some positions in which I can't feel my own body all that well, and sex becomes tolerable. sex then becomes a function for libido'd release. if we assumed otherwise I WAS ace, does this still count as sex for external needs?

[Sage Raven Domino]

To begin with, I think your premise about sex and masturbation being interchangeable hardly ever holds.

If sex is equivalent to masturbation for someone, it almost certainly isn't for one's prospective partner because they take part in the former but not in the latter.

If you mean that the person wants and enjoys sex whenever the libido calls for release and the partner desires intimacy, but masturbates when the partner doesn't want sex, well, the former person behaves in this scenario like a typical sexual.

It's natural and common for sexuals in a couple to have different intensity of sex drive; the one whose drive is more demanding compensates the difference by means of masturbation.

[Guest]

There are sexual and asexual people who are sex indifferent, so if someone finds sex and masturbation interchangeable then it's not exactly clear if the person is sexual or asexual.

So the person who is sex-indifferent... are they automatically grey? no ace can be sex-indifferent?

I think you're misunderstanding what sex-indifferent means. My understanding is that applies to asexuals who wouldn't choose to have sex (and don't) but don't have the repulsion, etc, toward it. In other words, sex is more like doing dishes than like being assaulted, which for some asexuals, any sex feels like an assault.

[binary suns]

If you mean that the person wants to have sex whenever the partner desires it but masturbates when the partner doesn't want sex, well, the former person behaves in this scenario like a typical sexual.

wait - so if someone doesn't care about sex enough that they'll do it at whim of the partner (save time constraints, or energy constraints) then that person necessarily must not be ace? even if otherwise everything about them is ace? even if we assume this is under the assumption the the partner only wants sex once at random in a day, that seems to be a little too questionable.

[Guest]

There are sexual and asexual people who are sex indifferent, so if someone finds sex and masturbation interchangeable then it's not exactly clear if the person is sexual or asexual.

So the person who is sex-indifferent... are they automatically grey? no ace can be sex-indifferent?

If someone can be sex-indifferent and be ace, then someone can be willing to have sex as a replacement to masturbation. but what is the line between having sex because of external needs or requests, and having sex that is available because it is efficient?

and, while I identify as grey for other reason, there is my personal case. due to being trans, I find masturbation to be unwantable. I would rather not masturbate. sex on the other hand, has some positions in which I can't feel my own body all that well, and sex becomes tolerable. sex then becomes a function for libido'd release. if we assumed otherwise I WAS ace, does this still count as sex for external needs?

What can someone else do to your bio parts that makes you stop feeling like that though? There must be ways to masturbate that are more efficient than having to involve another person. I don't even touch my own parts at all when masturbating, and I've known male-bodied people who could orgasm by grinding over a pillow or whatever while keeping their underwear on (as one example) ..I don't see how another person could involve your penis (for libido release) any less than many of the ways you yourself can. Have you tried the grinding thing? Lots of people have success with that without having to touch themselves at all.

I still don't believe an ace wouldchoosebeing with another person over finding a way to just deal with their libido on their own. Other people aren't naturally viewed as tools to release ones libido by asexuals... if someone is having trouble masturbating for whatever reason so *chooses* to have sex with someone else to relieve their libido instead..to me that points to underlying sexuality because an ace wouldn't go for that option.

[binary suns]

There are sexual and asexual people who are sex indifferent, so if someone finds sex and masturbation interchangeable then it's not exactly clear if the person is sexual or asexual.

So the person who is sex-indifferent... are they automatically grey? no ace can be sex-indifferent?

I think you're misunderstanding what sex-indifferent means. My understanding is that applies to asexuals who wouldn't choose to have sex (and don't) but don't have the repulsion, etc, toward it. In other words, sex is more like doing dishes than like being assaulted, which for some asexuals, any sex feels like an assault.

thats as I understand it. perhaps quoting starbit there didn't make as much sense as I thought it did. it seems like there is belief that if someone were so indifferent towards sex that they only object to it out of external constraints such as time or an injury or a stressful day, that this person is necessarily grey. and to me I don't see the line between this person and any person who is sex-indifferent, as such I concluded that the general assumption leads to the conclusion that sex-indifference is intrinsically a grey trait.

[Sage Raven Domino]

You're right that the willingness to have sex at the partner's whim doesn't disqualify from asexuality (it only means that one is not sex-repulsed).

However, an asexual then has sex solely to please the partner (as a favour), not for own recreation.

[Guest]

Exactly. They're not doing it for pleasure. It's just easier for them to do it out of kindness (or whatever) since they're not repulsed.

[binary suns]

There are sexual and asexual people who are sex indifferent, so if someone finds sex and masturbation interchangeable then it's not exactly clear if the person is sexual or asexual.

So the person who is sex-indifferent... are they automatically grey? no ace can be sex-indifferent?

If someone can be sex-indifferent and be ace, then someone can be willing to have sex as a replacement to masturbation. but what is the line between having sex because of external needs or requests, and having sex that is available because it is efficient?

and, while I identify as grey for other reason, there is my personal case. due to being trans, I find masturbation to be unwantable. I would rather not masturbate. sex on the other hand, has some positions in which I can't feel my own body all that well, and sex becomes tolerable. sex then becomes a function for libido'd release. if we assumed otherwise I WAS ace, does this still count as sex for external needs?

What can someone else do to your bio parts that makes you stop feeling like that though? There must be ways to masturbate that are more efficient than having to involve another person.

I'm not quite sure for a girl. but for a guy - lubrication of a blowie or PiV means no need for lubrication when masturbating.

oh you mean for my repulsion to my body? well, when I masturbate I feel my dick in my hand, and that feels gross. but there are at least two positions in which I literally do not feel my dick or the stimulation at all during sex - and yet the motion is enough to cause an orgasm. it's odd - but something that I'd try for if I were in a relationship with a sexual person. additionally - when I am regularly having sex, I never need to masturbate - because my libido is being answered. in this way, masturbation is repulsive but some sex is not because some sex means I don't have to think about the repulsive body sensations I experience.

wait - so then, I do prefer sex for an external reason - that some sex does not include body dysphoria, but masturbation does include body dysphoria. so if we ignored my being otherwise grey, my reasons for preferring sex due to function are indeed external - I am acting out of avoidance for gender dysphoria.

(this next part minimized because I realized it was irelevent - but I'm editing so I can't delete it due to chance someone might respond to it.)

but, now that I'm thinking more about it I even realise- even if sex and masturbation were equally as unlikeable for me and I was otherwise ace - I would still, in a sexual relationship, choose to have sex instead of masturbate for one reason - that I only need to orgasm about once a week to have a manageable libido, which means if I only have sex with my partner instead of switching between sex and masturbation - than I only have to deal with one unpleasant thing. (although chances are my partner would want sex often enough that my libido is never irritating enough for me to initiate) basically, if my partner was grey enough that they only really wanted sex about once a week, if it's been long enough since the last time that my libido acted up - I would initiate with them rather than masturbate.

oh! but then we see, that my initiating sex in a sexual relationship, is only because I anticipate my partner will want to have sex - so I am having sex because I expect they will ask for it and I'd rather have sex once than masturbate now and have sex later. so then, when I have sex in this way, I am doing it for my partner still.

[Sage Raven Domino]

Now I'm just imaging two people trapped in an elevator and one of them masturbsting quietly in the corner.

AWKWARD.

So would the ace (assuming that their libido visibly needed release) consent to sex just to avoid the awkwardness?

Again, their decision would indicate rather sex repulsion / positivity than (a)sexuality, but I for one, not even being sex-repulsed that much, would first try asking the other person to stop looking in my direction, because not only does sex require some rapport that's difficult to build with a random unknown person, but also it has a lot of potential dramatic consequences that I'd like to avoid.

[binary suns]

You're right that the willingness to have sex at the partner's whim doesn't disqualify from asexuality (it only means that one is not sex-repulsed).

However, an asexual then has sex solely to please the partner (as a favour), not for own recreation.

how is that different from the statement, "if a person enjoys sex, then they are not ace"

[Guest]

You're right that the willingness to have sex at the partner's whim doesn't disqualify from asexuality (it only means that one is not sex-repulsed).

However, an asexual then has sex solely to please the partner (as a favour), not for own recreation.

how is that different from the statement, "if a person enjoys sex, then they are not ace"

Because you left off the caveat that they have to both enjoy it AND independently choose to partake in it for their own enjoyment.

[Sage Raven Domino]

oh you mean for my repulsion to my body? well, when I masturbate I feel my dick in my hand, and that feels gross. but there are at least two positions in which I literally do not feel my dick or the stimulation at all during sex - and yet the motion is enough to cause an orgasm. it's odd - but something that I'd try for if I were in a relationship with a sexual person. additionally - when I am regularly having sex, I never need to masturbate - because my libido is being answered.

I wonder what these positions are (TMI) and why it's impossible to emulate them with a sex toy or a special manner of handpicking.

[Sage Raven Domino]

You're right that the willingness to have sex at the partner's whim doesn't disqualify from asexuality (it only means that one is not sex-repulsed).

However, an asexual then has sex solely to please the partner (as a favour), not for own recreation.

how is that different from the statement, "if a person enjoys sex, then they are not ace"

When both reasons (favour and recreation) are present, determine which of them is prevalent.

An ace might enjoy sex, but they enjoy other alternatives more, like watching football instead, and the reason why they choose to have sex is the concern about their partner's pleasure.

[binary suns]

oh you mean for my repulsion to my body? well, when I masturbate I feel my dick in my hand, and that feels gross. but there are at least two positions in which I literally do not feel my dick or the stimulation at all during sex - and yet the motion is enough to cause an orgasm. it's odd - but something that I'd try for if I were in a relationship with a sexual person. additionally - when I am regularly having sex, I never need to masturbate - because my libido is being answered.

I wonder what these positions are (TMI) and why it's impossible to emulate them with a sex toy or a special manner of handpicking.

I'm sure there exists a sex toy that would emulate the experience, but I find male sex toys to be incredibly creepy.

[binary suns]

You're right that the willingness to have sex at the partner's whim doesn't disqualify from asexuality (it only means that one is not sex-repulsed).

However, an asexual then has sex solely to please the partner (as a favour), not for own recreation.

how is that different from the statement, "if a person enjoys sex, then they are not ace"

When both reasons (favour and recreation) are present, determine which of them is prevalent.

An ace might enjoy sex, but they enjoy other alternatives more, like watching football instead, and the reason why they choose to have sex is the concern about their partner's pleasure.

I actually am unable to understand this. let me explain why: when a statement "X is better than Y" is said, it is very common for me to have a brain fart in trying to understand the sentence.

(editted because what I said was confusing and irrelevant)

[Sage Raven Domino]

TMI

As to the comparison between a toy and a human partner - it depends. I for one find interaction with a woman-parted person creepier than using a toy :D

Also, why can't you simply assume that your penis is a clitoris and act accordingly (which will limit your masturbation technique arsenal dramatically, but will hopefully float your boat)?

[binary suns]

As to the comparison between a toy and a human partner - it depends. I for one find interaction with a woman-parted person creepier than using a toy :D

Also, why can't you simply assume that your penis is a clitoris and act accordingly (which will limit your masturbation technique arsenal dramatically, but will hopefully float your boat)?

it doesn't always work, unfortunately, and it's actually very difficult to accomplish sometimes.

[Guest]

but, now that I'm thinking more about it I even realise- even if sex and masturbation were equally as unlikeable for me and I was otherwise ace - I would still, in a sexual relationship, choose to have sex instead of masturbate for one reason - that I only need to orgasm about once a week to have a manageable libido, which means if I only have sex with my partner instead of switching between sex and masturbation - than I only have to deal with one unpleasant thing. (although chances are my partner would want sex often enough that my libido is never irritating enough for me to initiate) basically, if my partner was grey enough that they only really wanted sex about once a week, if it's been long enough since the last time that my libido acted up - I would initiate with them rather than masturbate.

oh! but then we see, that my initiating sex in a sexual relationship, is only because I anticipate my partner will want to have sex - so I am having sex because I expect they will ask for it and I'd rather have sex once than masturbate now and have sex later. so then, when I have sex in this way, I am doing it for my partner still.

if my partner was grey enough that they only really wanted sex about once a week,

That's 100% normal sexual person, not grey. Lots of sexual people don't even want sex once a week, more like a couple of times a month.

..Pretty much you're saying, you personally prefer sex to masturbation because masturbation doesn't work for you (there are plenty of sexual people who don't masturbate for whatever reason, so prefer partnered sex)

But the thing is, an ace wouldn't prefer sex to masturbation (for libido release/pleasure) because they have no preference for sex. If they can't masturbate, they'll be stressing yeah.. but they aren't going to naturally prefer to have sex with another person as an alternative option.. because they're asexual. A sexual would prefer to have sex as an alternative option, but an ace won't feel that natural inclination to choose partnered sex instead. They'd find ways to masturbate (like grinding with underwear on or whatever, or some of the sex toys that don't involve touching yourself like those vagina tubes for a guy or even just a vibrating cock ring or whatever)

I'm sure there exists a sex toy that would emulate the experience, but I find male sex toys to be incredibly creepy.

See now you're even saying you'd prefer partnered sex to the masturbation alternatives .. You'd prefer to seek (and even initiate) partnered sex, for your own pleasure, over seeking masturbation alternatives. This just sounds like a very inherently sexual thing to say. Well, it is an inherently sexual thing to say.

Asexual: ''Fuuuuuuuuck I'm having so much trouble masturbating because of this dysphoria, I need to find different ways to masturbate to deal with my libido or just try to get rid of this libido! I want it gone!'' (see how partnered sex doesn't even cross their mind as an alternative?)

Sexual: ''Daaamn masturbating isn't working so well for me because of how bad my dysphoria is.. But meh, at least I can have sex as an alternative for when I need my libido itch scratched which thankfully isn't too often anyway!''

Someone who is inherently asexual isn't going to look at sex like an alternative because they're asexual.

I'm not saying you can't call yourself whatever you want (and you identify as grey anyway I think you said?) but what you're saying sounds at the very least, grey sexual. Not asexual at all. Like, it's practically the definition of grey sexual going by the way some people describe it. Definitely not ace though.

I actually am unable to understand this. let me explain why: when two things have positives and negatives, such as watching football being fun but uninvolving, verse sex which feels nice but is too involving, I cannot understand the statement "x is better than Y". it is too conditionally reliant - football is better than sex when you need to be uninvolved, but sex is better than football when you need to be active. if I imagine myself to be a sex-indifferent asexual, and my only two choices of activity are sex or football because no other choices in the universe exist, I would watch football when tired and have sex when anxious.

So you're saying that under some circumstances, you'd choose partnered sex over football. Again.. well.. I think I have said enough about labels and don't want to come across as identity policing. You can call a pink goldfish if you want haha.. I just.. Yeah. To me, what you're describing is at the very least grey sexual. It's not asexual. (and you yourself identify as grey anyway so I'm not identity policing you personally or anything)

..Pretty much, in answer to the title of this thread:

If one prefers partnered sex over masturbating (for pleasure/libido release/whatever) that's not asexual. Though they could be grey sexual depending on the circumstances.

[Sage Raven Domino]

if I imagine myself to be a sex-indifferent asexual, and my only two choices of activity are sex or football because no other choices in the universe exist, I would watch football when tired and have sex when anxious.

Do I take it right that at least sometimes, when you're anxious and a friend of yours is in the same room, partnered sex with the friend is more preferable for you than any other option, including sending the friend off to another room and masturbating on your own? Then I claim that you're experiencing sexual attraction to the friend in this scenario, as you're valuing them as a necessary / preferable assistant (more efficient than your own hand) in overcoming your anxiety asap.

[binary suns]

If one prefers partnered sex over masturbating (for pleasure/libido release/whatever) that's not asexual. Though they could be grey sexual depending on the circumstances.

I entirely disagree with this statement. someone who is aroused has three options: ignore it; masturbate; have sex. but, someone with a libido of a certain strength threshold, cannot ignore it any longer. so if someone already prefers not to masturbate or have sex, then once the option to do nothing is removed, the other two do not cease to be the second and third choices. a libido'd person who prefers not to masturbate and also to not have sex, but prefers to have sex over masturbation, is not the same as a person who prefers to have sex over not having sex. A > B > C is not the same as B > A, and if A is not possible so they must B, that does not change anything. the libido'd ace who would have sex if it was available to avoid masturbation, is not sexual because if sex weren't available they wouldn't even think about it as an option, and would not desire it. the only reason they choose to have sex, is because they think "ugh I have to masturbate, I hate masturbation. oh wait! I have a partner who likes sex, that's not nearly as bad, lets go do that instead. ugh, sex.. but whatever"

if I imagine myself to be a sex-indifferent asexual, and my only two choices of activity are sex or football because no other choices in the universe exist, I would watch football when tired and have sex when anxious.

Do I take it right that at least sometimes, when you're anxious and a friend of yours is in the same room, partnered sex with the friend is more preferable for you than any other option, including sending the friend off to another room and masturbating on your own? Then I claim that you're experiencing sexual attraction to the friend in this scenario, as you're valuing them as a necessary / preferable assistant (more efficient than your own hand) in overcoming your anxiety asap.

no, that is not the case for me. but honestly, ignore my response to the sex v. football, I was only tying to explain that I don't understand "X is better than Y" for any X or Y. The fact that I talked about football and sex was only because you brought it up, and I created a sentence that wasn't my personal preference, just an example sentence. it was really stupid of me, because it would only confuse the reader...

[Guest]

If one prefers partnered sex over masturbating (for pleasure/libido release/whatever) that's not asexual. Though they could be grey sexual depending on the circumstances.

I entirely disagree with this statement. someone who is aroused has three options: ignore it, masturbate, have sex. but, someone with a libido of a certain strength threshold, cannot ignore it any longer. so if someone already prefers not to masturbate or have sex, then once the option to do nothing is removed, whichever secondary option the prefer to select remains to not be their most preferred option. so if someone is like me, except for my being grey bit, prefers sex to masturbation because they HAVE to do either because their IDEAL option is no longer an option, then of course they're still an ace!

Well (I identify in the grey area anyway but I know lots of aces who feel the same as I do when it comes to this)

I know I have an undeniable libido. It's very strong and refuses to be denied (daily, sadly) .. but.. having sex could never relieve it; any form of partnered sex couldn't relieve my libido. Because I don't want to have sex, I don't desire that partnered sexual connection.. it's the equivalent of saying ''oh I could just do the dishes to relieve my libido'' ..Sex just doesn't ''equate'' to ''libido release'' for me, the same as doing the dishes don't equate to libido release for me.. That's the whole point.asexuals don't equate partnered sex with ''libido release'' no matter how strong their libido is. Whereas there are a million forms of masturbation one could explore to relieve libido if one is having trouble doing it the traditional ways (as I said, I myself cannot masturbate by touching myself but I still found other ways)

And yes some asexuals can enjoy the sensations of sex if having it because a partner wants it or they are trying to make a baby or whatever, because some people can enjoy the feeling of that stimulation just because it's happening. This is an extreme example, but some rape victim orgasm (even multiple times) during an attack. That has nothing to do with libido though. It's literally just the stimulation that is happening.

There is a difference between ''it feeling okay when I have it'' and ''relieving my libido through partnered sex because it feels okay'' ..If you are consciously choosing to relieve your libido through partnered sex instead of seeking alternative ways to masturbate, because to you partnered sex is a better alternative for libido relief.. well again, that just points to underlying sexuality as far as I can see.

Any ace is going to say ''why not try find other ways to masturbate? why have sex when you can just find some way to masturbate? '', and any sexual is going to say ''yes I understand what you're saying.. I totally prefer sex to masturbation too.. of course if I couldn't masturbate and needed that relief, and someone was available who wanted sex with me.. I'd choose sex, every single time, no questions asked'' ...See how the different mindsets point to what I am trying to say? Asexuals just don't link partnered sex to libido relief, whereas for sexuals partnered sex and libido relief are integrally entwined.

[Sage Raven Domino]

the only reason they choose to have sex, is because they think "ugh I have to masturbate, I hate masturbation. oh wait! I have a partner who likes sex, that's not nearly as bad, lets go do that instead. ugh, sex.. but whatever"

This is a mild form of sexual attraction.

Even sexuals don't always prefer having sex over doing anything that doesn't involve genitals (otherwise they'd end up having sex all day long, lol). For the majority of their awake time, their libido sleeps. For only a small fraction of the time does it take over, and then they prefer sex (when it's available) over masturbation as the method of libido release.

[binary suns]

I'm sure there exists a sex toy that would emulate the experience, but I find male sex toys to be incredibly creepy.

See now you're even saying you'd prefer partnered sex to the masturbation alternatives .. You'd prefer to seek (and even initiate) partnered sex, for your own pleasure, over seeking masturbation alternatives.

no, when I don't like masturbating I just deal with the duress of a libido. I play video games, or distract myself in other ways. I put it off, with the hopes it'll either go away or maybe my junk will be more responsive at a later time.

I do not prefer to seek out partnered sex. if I had a sexual partner, there are circumstances where I would initiate. but this is more complicated - so let's not talk about it, because the question is "what is the line between sex indifference and sexual desire" and making the example more complicated is not useful at all.

my lack of interest in seeking out a sex toy that's likely repulsive for me is because I don't masturbate often enough to care to take the effort to deal with searching for something that I don't expect to like anyway. additionally, right now in my life I'm facing a lot of challenges that make me want to give up and sleep all day until I waste away. but talking about sex occupies my mind and wastes time so I don't think about the things that make me feel miserable. looking for a sex toy would only remind me that I hate masturbation.

actually, I'd rather just return to the topic rather than debate over my personal example. my personal example isn't really even relevant, and thinking about it is depressing to me.

so, the current topic is the following:

is sexual indifference inherently grey? if it is not, then what is the line between someone being indifferent to sex, and someone desiring sex?

my current proposed "line" is that someone who has sex with a partner because the partner is a sexual person, is not enough to determine the person is not ace. even if they initiate with that person, if they only have any interest in sex under the condition that they have a partner who wants sex, and otherwise do not seek sex, then they are asexual, and not grey.