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How do you "feel" like a gender?


Skipper Valvoline

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Skipper Valvoline

Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

For noncisfolk: How much of your internalized feeling is due to body dysphoria? If you do not have body dysphoria, how do you describe this "feeling" of otherness?

I guess I'll put myself out there first since I started this topic.

I consider myself a cis-female because I don't really have any problems with my biology, but I never think about my own gender. I'm a tomboy, and several of my behaviors are certainly (according to society) more gentlemanly than ladylike, but I never feel like I'm being a boy in those moments nor do I feel like I'm being a girl when I wear a dress. It's literally just me, Skipper, doing Skipper-like things. In some circles, I may even qualify as 'agender' because I don't "feel" particularly male/female. I'm just me in this body that's biologically female. Sure, I could certainly do without the ovaries and periods, but I don't attribute that to a gender-specific reason (I hate periods and since I don't plan on having kids why not just get rid of them?). I don't have any inside sense of "I'm a girl" or "I'm a boy" and tend to cross a little on both because I'm human.

I wonder if, just if, anybody truly has an internalized sense of 'girl' v. 'boy'. Hence, my questions above. I'm cis, not anything else, because I'm fine with my body and screw society. I may not act like the girly female seen in the media and mainstream society, but I don't think that makes me different in terms of gender, I think that just means I'm part of the wide diversity in human personalities.

This is going to end up in the Hot Box, isn't it?

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WinterWanderer

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

I'm cis-female and I feel much the same as you do. I don't really "feel" like a gender, I just see me as... me. I don't really think about myself in terms of being a boy/girl, I just identify as female because... idk, that's how I was born, and that's how society sees me. I just go along with that, since I don't really have any qualms with it.

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We actually have this conversation a lot, it hasn't ended up in the Hot Box yet. I personally am just the most comfortable, when I am addressed as a man or neutrally. My brain expects my body to be maleish (gender dysphoria), and has issues when it isn't. I don't really feel any gender whatsoever, and if I ever fully transition to male, I will not be a regular guy either. I don't really follow the rules for either male of female. In fact I would be most happy, I think, with male pronouns and my body being neutral. I haven't really completely figured out how much I want to transition, I just know that I absolutely love being called he/him and sir and that I want to remove my breasts because just remembering that they are there messes my head up.

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TriSpectral

Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

For noncisfolk: How much of your internalized feeling is due to body dysphoria? If you do not have body dysphoria, how do you describe this "feeling" of otherness?

I guess I'll put myself out there first since I started this topic.

I consider myself a cis-female because I don't really have any problems with my biology, but I never think about my own gender. I'm a tomboy, and several of my behaviors are certainly (according to society) more gentlemanly than ladylike, but I never feel like I'm being a boy in those moments nor do I feel like I'm being a girl when I wear a dress. It's literally just me, Skipper, doing Skipper-like things. In some circles, I may even qualify as 'agender' because I don't "feel" particularly male/female. I'm just me in this body that's biologically female. Sure, I could certainly do without the ovaries and periods, but I don't attribute that to a gender-specific reason (I hate periods and since I don't plan on having kids why not just get rid of them?). I don't have any inside sense of "I'm a girl" or "I'm a boy" and tend to cross a little on both because I'm human.

I wonder if, just if, anybody truly has an internalized sense of 'girl' v. 'boy'. Hence, my questions above. I'm cis, not anything else, because I'm fine with my body and screw society. I may not act like the girly female seen in the media and mainstream society, but I don't think that makes me different in terms of gender, I think that just means I'm part of the wide diversity in human personalities.

Most of this is 100% what I feel.

I am a ME. And a me doesn't need to identify with a gender in order to know what my place in this world is. I don't really care one way or the other that I'm biologically female. It's what I've always been, and I don't mind it. But I don't really feel like gender is personally necessary.

If society insists on a gender binary, then I need to break the binary in order to exist. But if it doesn't insist on a binary, then I'll go on my merry way.

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binary suns

how a person feels in regarding to their sex, and gender if that dialogue exists for them, is individually felt.

I was not always transgender. I have been without any internal gender identity or dialogue for the majority of my life, but when I realized that my assigned sex was "not right" and realized that I was transsexual for various reasons, that's when an internal gender dialogue began within my self-perception, and that's when I first had a gender identity. I do not understand the concept of "feeling a gender" but I do feel certain discomfort with my sex, and because of that I host a gender identity that is not congruent with my assigned sex.

I do not believe that gender exists as a feeling, because I have never "felt" any gender. I believe that gender is only a conception, a valid one of course. Maybe I am incorrect when considering the population, but this belief holds true to my personal experience.

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You don't feel gender. No one does.

For me, a transgender person, my transgender-ness is due to my environment as well as the way that I think in general. As a child, I was harassed and ostracized a lot by my fellow female classmates. They wouldn't tell me why they hated me, I'm sure they did not know why, but they did and because of that I am now permanently scarred from ever fully relating to the female sex.

Additionally, growing up, I legitimately thought I was meant to be a male. I'm not sure why. I called myself Zachary in secret, all of my stuffed animals were boys. I observed the things that my brothers and sisters did, as well, and through that determined what was "girly" and what was "boyish". I then set myself up to love all things "boyish" and despise all things "girly". The more convincing male I was, the happier and more comfortable with myself I thought I would become. So I hated dolls and dresses, and loved video games and trucks.

Now older, I'm no longer that extreme. I also now realize that being boy doesn't mean I have to conform with male gender roles. I identify as a masculine-leaning androgyne now: someone who is simultaneously masculine and feminine.

I am female. That is the 100% undeniable truth. However, every time I say that I am female, it gives off the same feeling as when I lie to someone. It's true, but my mind processes it to be a lie.

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darknova42

For me it started with just a vague sense or awareness of being different and not knowing what it was. I just didn't really fit. Kind of "Close but, not quite".

Later in life after learning more about myself I wanted to know where that feeling came from. I thought it might be a lot of things. I thought all kinds of stuff; am I mildly autistic? am I intersex? am I gay? You name it, I probably wondered it.

Trans issues started being talked about recently but I've always loved questioning the human condition itself. There was a manga series I really liked called 'Aiesu', it had 3 stories all about people who were intersex. I really could sympathize with some of the stuff the main character in the main story was going through, its why I thought I might be intersex and never knew. I wasn't.

I'd read some books with trans characters and also thought that I might be a woman. Partly because when they described that sense of knowing that they weren't a boy it hit really close to home. It was just confusing because I felt that way about both. I didn't know that how I felt was something real that other people experience. That there was such a thing as agender.

It is hard to explain. When I look at a woman, there's an intrinsic almost instinctive sense of difference between them and I. That we're not the same thing. Like recognizing someone from a different 'tribe' or something. If I was cisgender I suppose I *should* have the opposite feeling when it comes to men. A sense of kinship or brotherhood. Of being 'one of the guys'. Except I felt the same sense of difference. Of not being the same thing. When I hung out with my male friends it could literally feel like I was an anthropologist studying some foreign culture, where they spoke 'car talk', worshiped their god 'sports', etc.

Being referred to as male never bothered me, but I've been 'mistaken' for a girl infrequently throughout my life and that never bothered me either. I just don't have a masculine or feminine aspect to present. I wouldn't mind being either.

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girltwink666

i dont know thats why I identify as agender

That's not actually true 100% because I also feel dysphoria from being percieved as either of the Binary genders so

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For noncisfolk: How much of your internalized feeling is due to body dysphoria? If you do not have body dysphoria, how do you describe this "feeling" of otherness?

I don't know why I reply to these threads because although I'm not ''cis'' I'm also not ''trans'' or anything else, I'm just nothing so I feel I have no place here?

Anyway haha.. I understand that biologically, this body is that of a ''human female'' ..it looks best in makeup and in clothes that accentuate its curves, so I go with that .. But inside, I'm not anything, to the extent that words like ''woman'' ''mother'' ''daughter'' make me extremely uncomfortable when directed at me, as uncomfortable as words like ''man'' ''father'' ''son'' would, and I can't apply any of those labels to myself, it feels exactly like if I were lying. I did develop severe dysphoria in my youth as a result of this feeling, and still can't uuum.. ''relate'' to the biological organism I am stuck with, but none of this was caused by dysphoria, the body dysphoria happened as a result of it.

Anyway, I'm not ''agender'' because that would be ''something'' ..I am just a nothing that has to deal with human female-related issues (like pregnancy, breasts, bleeding etc) pretty much.

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Of course you have a place here Pan! Everyone does.

As for how to "feel" gender... I strongly suspect that we use the word "feel" simply because it's the closest word we can find, not because it's actually a sensory thing or an emotional thing. I don't "feel" my gender the same way I feel angry or happy or sad. I also don't feel it the same way I feel hot or cold or smooth fabric. I feel it like I feel like someone is watching me. It's a persistent feeling, and it's there, and it can be quite strong. But it's hard to point to a specific location of where you think that someone is. Like in a horror movie, where you're sure you're being watched, and it's a strong feeling, and you're probably right, but you can't actually see your observer.

I can feel my gender, and I'm sure it's there (when it is... sometimes it gets lost, silly fluidity :P ) but I can't point to one specific spot on my body or brain that houses my gender. The conviction is just as strong, and I'm probably right, just like the scenario above. It's there, I know it, but it's often hard to pin point what it is and how to describe it to people.

It's essentially a feeling of something's off. Or a feeling of something's right that isn't usually right, when I swing to my cisgender times. The feeling is distinct. And sometimes that off feeling is uncomfortable or downright painful, in which case I call it dysphoria. For me, most of the time the dysphoria is physical; I feel wrong, like I have body bits that shouldn't be there. It's like all my curves are warts, growing in places they don't belong. I want them gone. That's when the off feeling is strong and painful: body dysphoria. However, sometimes I can be fine with my body and the off feeling has more to do with how people treat me. This is when things like being called "girlfriend" feels like a stab in the stomach. A jolt. It's much like when someone who doesn't speak English very well calls an object by a gendered pronoun instead of "it", or calls all humans "he" no matter their gender; you instinctively know that's wrong, and it feels like a mini jolt to the system. That's what it feels like to me when I get slapped with "girlfriend" when I'm socially dysphoric, and that one is called "social dysphoria" because it has more to do with how others treat you than how you want your body to be. Bathroom things come under this one too, and gender roles, etc. Though none of those things are mandatory, of course.

So, in short, it is a feeling of bodily and/or socially being off somehow, unbalanced. Sometimes that gets bad enough to be uncomfortable or even painful, in which case we call it dysphoria, but it doesn't have to be like that to be legitimate. It can simply be a nagging persistent feeling that something isn't lining up. Does that help?

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Skipper Valvoline

Thank you everyone, so far, for the responses! They're all very intriguing. For a couple of those who have commented on the semantics of "feeling" gender, I use it as a shorthand (?) to describe that 'inner awareness' other people have spoken of elsewhere on this forum. The best word in English, in the context that I could place it in my sentence, was "feel/feeling" but I don't mean that as a sort of emotion (hence, precisely why it's in quotes). And Pan, that's why I said 'noncisfolk' instead of trans/a/pan/non-binary, etc. etc. etc. I tried to cover the umbrella of anyone/everyone outside of cis. So you're good!

I'm also glad everyone is so respectful! I get nervous whenever I ask questions about gender identities because I worry that it'll come across as transphobic :( Fascinating insights!

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"Feeling" like a gender. I'm AFAB, I "feel" male. It's about how you relate to the world, how you process things. It isn't about disliking stereotypes, etc. I've always been treated badly in social situations as a female because I don't fit in. My thoughts, feelings, and opinions follow a different track than cis-females and they're generally not acceptable in that space.

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A short story: On the very first day of kindergarden: "Here are the kids, play with them." Okey. I walk here and there, with no idea what to do, and then start playing with boys. Just like that, just because. No effort or overthinking involved. It came down to beating each other up and teasing and I started crying, I can't even remember why. Then came the caretaker and she was like "Poor little girl, boys were unkind to you? Come on, here are the girls" And she took me to the girls. They were playing house. I stood there and had no idea what to do with them xP I thought they were hiding something from me and not telling me the rules of what they play. I asked them if I can play with them, because it was clear to me that someone has to explain the rules. But they replied that sure, I can play and gave me the role of the cat ;) I still had no idea what to do :P And I kept on thinking they were not telling me something or something very traumatic happened to them for the next... 12 years? Who in this world would do that stuff on their own, right? :P

The situation repeats over and over again, in different packagings.

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Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

I'm cis, and I have to say I do not feel anything regarding whatever this gender business is about, and it has nothing to do with how I perceive other or how other thinks or fitting in.

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PhoenixButterfly

A short story: On the very first day of kindergarden: "Here are the kids, play with them." Okey. I walk here and there, with no idea what to do, and then start playing with boys. Just like that, just because. No effort or overthinking involved. It came down to beating each other up and teasing and I started crying, I can't even remember why. Then came the caretaker and she was like "Poor little girl, boys were unkind to you? Come on, here are the girls" And she took me to the girls. They were playing house. I stood there and had no idea what to do with them xP I thought they were hiding something from me and not telling me the rules of what they play. I asked them if I can play with them, because it was clear to me that someone has to explain the rules. But they replied that sure, I can play and gave me the role of the cat ;) I still had no idea what to do :P And I kept on thinking they were not telling me something or something very traumatic happened to them for the next... 12 years? Who in this world would do that stuff on their own, right? :P

The situation repeats over and over again, in different packagings.

You just reminded me of something that I did when I was younger.

My female cousin and I use to play pretend in her basement. It was a long time ago now, but I think it was a way for us to role-play. There was absolutely nothing sexual about it at all, mind you. (Read: get your mind out of the gutter.) We always "yada-yada-yada"-ed over the kissing scenes. But I remember now that I had two roles I played and my cousin was totally cool with this, too. I had a female character and a male character. I suppose it was my way of trying to relate to genders and gender-roles. Of course, she only had a female character because she's cisgender. I'm not out to her yet, but I hope to tell her someday soon. The way I figure it, I don't need to tell her until I'm seriously dating someone.

That being said, I have only been seriously questioning my gender identity and orientation for about two or three years now. I have Asperger's Syndrome, so I was kind of oblivious to my lack of binary gender, so to speak. I just recently came to the conclusion that I'm gender-neutral and have a gender-nonconforming expression. Although, I am still trying to find my sense of style. I know it's there somewhere. I'm just having a hard time pinpointing it.

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Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

I'm cis, and I have to say I do not feel anything regarding whatever this gender business is about, and it has nothing to do with how I perceive other or how other thinks or fitting in.

Reptilian- You don't "feel" gender because yours isn't out of alignment with your birth sex. Being cis, none of this makes sense or really applies to you. For those of us that are out of alignment, there is a definitive sense of being different.

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I always played the girl. I like being a girl and girly stuff. I identified with it very strongly. Not on the profound level, because I never asked myself this question. Until I started to develop any real sense of my own identity, of who I am, in high school. I just accepted what I was told.

Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?


I'm cis, and I have to say I do not feel anything regarding whatever this gender business is about, and it has nothing to do with how I perceive other or how other thinks or fitting in.

Reptilian- You don't "feel" gender because yours isn't out of alignment with your birth sex. Being cis, none of this makes sense or really applies to you. For those of us that are out of alignment, there is a definitive sense of being different.

Either cis or agender/in the middle but in denial.

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Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

I'm cis, and I have to say I do not feel anything regarding whatever this gender business is about, and it has nothing to do with how I perceive other or how other thinks or fitting in.

Reptilian- You don't "feel" gender because yours isn't out of alignment with your birth sex. Being cis, none of this makes sense or really applies to you. For those of us that are out of alignment, there is a definitive sense of being different.

Or maybe some of us people legitimately don't even have a concept of gender? Agender can easily apply to me, but male works out of convenience and the approach is equally as valid as any other one seeing as every approach is flawed.

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Calligraphette_Coe

For noncisfolk: How much of your internalized feeling is due to body dysphoria? If you do not have body dysphoria, how do you describe this "feeling" of otherness?

It's like being in love, which is a feeling. It doesn't have a chemical formula, it's as variable as the weather, you can't measure it instruments and you can't prove it exists. When you're in love, you just know.

Like this:

Neo: I just have never...

Rama-Kandra: ...heard a program speak of love?

Neo: It's a... human emotion.

Rama-Kandra: No, it is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies. I see that you are in love. Can you tell me what you would give to hold on to that connection?

Neo: Anything.

Rama-Kandra: Then perhaps the reason you're here is not so different from the reason I'm here.

Being non-cis is about a connection to how you relate to the world and how the world relates to you. It's not just a feeling any more than a fish 'feels' it's way in the ocean. It's the expression and how you move that makes you 'feel' that way-- even when the world is a total Agent Smith about it.

Agent Smith: Why, Mr. Anderson? Why, why? Why do you do it? Why, why get up? Why keep fighting? Do you believe you're fighting... for something? For more than your survival? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it freedom? Or truth? Perhaps peace? Could it be for love? Illusions, Mr. Anderson. Vagaries of perception. Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose. And all of them as artificial as the Matrix itself, although... only a human mind could invent something as insipid as love. You must be able to see it, Mr. Anderson. You must know it by now. You can't win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Mr. Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?

Neo: Because I choose to.

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Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

I'm cis, and I have to say I do not feel anything regarding whatever this gender business is about, and it has nothing to do with how I perceive other or how other thinks or fitting in.

Reptilian- You don't "feel" gender because yours isn't out of alignment with your birth sex. Being cis, none of this makes sense or really applies to you. For those of us that are out of alignment, there is a definitive sense of being different.

Or maybe some of us people legitimately don't even have a concept of gender? Agender can easily apply to me, but male works out of convenience and the approach is equally as valid as any other one seeing as every approach is flawed.

Every other approach to gender is flawed, therefore transgender people don't exist. That's what you're essentially saying.. So perhaps you should leave this forum space to those of us whose "flawed" existence is our reality instead of engaging in your passive aggressive pokes at people (which I don't genuinely believe are done for the purpose of contributing to the greater conversation of gender issues because to you, gender doesn't exist).

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Boy, the pressure is so on to word this right without offending anybody.

So, for cisfolk: Biology and society aside, do you "feel" like a girl or a boy? Or not? How do you describe this feeling?

I'm cis, and I have to say I do not feel anything regarding whatever this gender business is about, and it has nothing to do with how I perceive other or how other thinks or fitting in.

Reptilian- You don't "feel" gender because yours isn't out of alignment with your birth sex. Being cis, none of this makes sense or really applies to you. For those of us that are out of alignment, there is a definitive sense of being different.

Or maybe some of us people legitimately don't even have a concept of gender? Agender can easily apply to me, but male works out of convenience and the approach is equally as valid as any other one seeing as every approach is flawed.

Every other approach to gender is flawed, therefore transgender people don't exist. That's what you're essentially saying.. So perhaps you should leave this forum space to those of us whose "flawed" existence is our reality instead of engaging in your passive aggressive pokes at people (which I don't genuinely believe are done for the purpose of contributing to the greater conversation of gender issues because to you, gender doesn't exist).

I'm saying every, not "every other". That means no matter what approach you go by identifying, you always can spot some issues with the approach and how it's applied in everyday life. That doesn't imply transgender people does not exist, but it does certainly imply every people identify by some philosophy (well, most) and their way of approaching things are equally as valid and invalid. If your approach to gender identity has to do with feelings, then agender would be perfectly fine to put me under your eyes, and it's no more invalid than say if your approach has to do with essentialism and you classify me as male, and then so on, all of those are equally as valid as each other.

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I agree with Char, I don't understand what you're doing in here trying to convince gender variant people in a space made by gender variant people for gender variant people to talk about gender variance - that gender is about genitals. Not in a way I'm mad or something, you just puzzle me a bit, Reptilian. Maybe you're trying to recruit new souls to your faith? That's absolutely the wrong place to do it. You'd have much more chances in a "gender-normal" space, logically speaking.

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PhoenixButterfly

Okay, it seems like maybe Reptilian's words are being misconstrued. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that what Reptilian is trying to say is that some people have a concept of gender and some people don't. Just because someone doesn't have a concept of gender, that doesn't automatically make them cisgender or agender. Also, for some people, one's own gender identity is very important to oneself. But there are also some people who don't care about one's own gender identity.

That being said, I have no clue what he's talking about when he says, "flawed approach." An individual's own gender identity is based on one's own sense of individuality. Gender identity is not a social construct. Time is a social construct. Gender roles are a social construct. Stereotypes are a social construct. But gender identity is not nor has it ever been a social construct.

That being said, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. But sometimes it's better to just keep one's opinions to oneself. Make peace, not war. Live and let live. Don't judge a book by its cover. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. These are the mottos I try to live by.

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I agree with Char, I don't understand what you're doing in here trying to convince gender variant people in a space made by gender variant people for gender variant people to talk about gender variance - that gender is about genitals. Not in a way I'm mad or something, you just puzzle me a bit, Reptilian. Maybe you're trying to recruit new souls to your faith? That's absolutely the wrong place to do it. You'd have much more chances in a "gender-normal" space, logically speaking.

Where did you get that I am claiming that gender =genitals? And asides, I have stated that gender as a concept is completely incoherent, although gender identity is far more coherent because it is dependent on only one variable which is the person that is carrying a gender identity. Gender on the other hand has so many definitions, and so on, one can argue it is incoherent.

Okay, it seems like maybe Reptilian's words are being misconstrued. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that what Reptilian is trying to say is that some people have a concept of gender and some people don't. Just because someone doesn't have a concept of gender, that doesn't automatically make them cisgender or agender. Also, for some people, one's own gender identity is very important to oneself. But there are also some people who don't care about one's own gender identity.

You got that, right.

That being said, I have no clue what he's talking about when he says, "flawed approach." An individual's own gender identity is based on one's own sense of individuality. Gender identity is not a social construct. Time is a social construct. Gender roles are a social construct. Stereotypes are a social construct. But gender identity is not nor has it ever been a social construct.

Gender on the other hand is more of a social construct seeing as no one has came up with a definition of gender which doesn't require 800+words to suit as much people as possible as tons of people disagree on what gender is. As for "flawed approach", lemme put it this way.

"I am what I feel" - Approach #1

Answer yourself on what's the problem with this approach

"I am what I think" - Approach #2

Answer yourself on what's the problem with this approach

"I am what biological-based observations so far tells what I am"- Approach #3

Answer yourself on what's the problem with this approach

You aren't going to get an approach which is not without problem.

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Mezzo Forte

Two of the biggest things that solidify my understanding of my gender identity is the way estrogen shaped my body and how it influences my emotional responses. Physical dysphoria is exactly what you'd expect, but I also was always ashamed of how emotional I get. I cry with very little provocation, and it always feels like an out-of-body experience because it's so disproportionate to what's actually going on in my mind. My body also has no idea how to respond to anger, and it has actually defaulted to crying when I pass a certain threshold. I really feel like those moments are when the estrogen takes over, and I really hope my emotional responses get easier to control as I get farther along with my HRT. (I could point out social stuff, but I personally don't try to put too much stock in anything beyond how I feel about others perceiving me as one gender over another.)

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Where did you get that I am claiming that gender =genitals? And asides, I have stated that gender as a concept is completely incoherent, although gender identity is far more coherent because it is dependent on only one variable which is the person that is carrying a gender identity. Gender on the other hand has so many definitions, and so on, one can argue it is incoherent.

You say there is nothing more to it. That is exactly your point behind saying "there is no gender". You say there is no gender, only sex. That seems to be your opinion.

But how many times do I have to repeat that even in "hard science", which is my field of work, nothing is 100% correct and certain? Every approach is somewhat flawed, you're right about it, but some work better than others in explaining what actually happens. There will always be outliers and exceptions. That's just how this world is. There will always be accident, the unexplained, something we don't understand, which doesn't hold to rules. It doesn't change that the majority of cases follow a certain trend. "Trend" is a key word here, and it's meaning is key to understanding that.

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As many said already I used to say I'm female just because that's what I was born with, I grew up with everyone saying I was a girl and I never gave much thought on it.

Now however I'm not sure that's correct, I sort of just feel like both or even none. For the simple reason that I don't even know what being a certain gender really means.

I wouldn't say I have dysphoria though, it's not like I don't recognize or even hate my body it's more like I don't even realize I have one. I considered transitioning a couple times but the best option for me would be to be both and sadly that's not possible.

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I agree with Char, I don't understand what you're doing in here trying to convince gender variant people in a space made by gender variant people for gender variant people to talk about gender variance - that gender is about genitals. Not in a way I'm mad or something, you just puzzle me a bit, Reptilian. Maybe you're trying to recruit new souls to your faith? That's absolutely the wrong place to do it. You'd have much more chances in a "gender-normal" space, logically speaking.

Where did you get that I am claiming that gender =genitals? And asides, I have stated that gender as a concept is completely incoherent, although gender identity is far more coherent because it is dependent on only one variable which is the person that is carrying a gender identity. Gender on the other hand has so many definitions, and so on, one can argue it is incoherent.

Okay, it seems like maybe Reptilian's words are being misconstrued. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that what Reptilian is trying to say is that some people have a concept of gender and some people don't. Just because someone doesn't have a concept of gender, that doesn't automatically make them cisgender or agender. Also, for some people, one's own gender identity is very important to oneself. But there are also some people who don't care about one's own gender identity.

You got that, right.

That being said, I have no clue what he's talking about when he says, "flawed approach." An individual's own gender identity is based on one's own sense of individuality. Gender identity is not a social construct. Time is a social construct. Gender roles are a social construct. Stereotypes are a social construct. But gender identity is not nor has it ever been a social construct.

Gender on the other hand is more of a social construct seeing as no one has came up with a definition of gender which doesn't require 800+words to suit as much people as possible as tons of people disagree on what gender is. As for "flawed approach", lemme put it this way.

"I am what I feel" - Approach #1

Answer yourself on what's the problem with this approach

"I am what I think" - Approach #2

Answer yourself on what's the problem with this approach

"I am what biological-based observations so far tells what I am"- Approach #3

Answer yourself on what's the problem with this approach

You aren't going to get an approach which is not without problem.

For someone who claims that gender is all pretty much crap and is indifferent to their gender- you act like TRUSCUM and police everybody else's life experience..

And if you don't know what TRUSCUM is-Google it!!

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Some people consider truscum to be a very insulting word. I'd encourage everyone here to refrain from using it. Let's be considerate of all communities and refrain from using terms that could be construed as insults whenever possible, even if they are "not so bad" in our own experiences.

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A. Lynn Lee

I really don't like using the word "feel" to describe my gender. It's really not a feeling in the way that touch and sight are feelings. It's not connected to any particular emotion either. I identify my gender based on the traits, experiences, and perspectives commonly associated with the words "non-binary" and "genderfluid." When I first started studying gender (in college) I found that I did things and thought about things in ways that fit the general descriptions of men and women, and a few ways that just didn't fit in the paradigm. I answer questions related to masculinity/femininity with both/neither. When someone introduced the label non-binary to me it just fit, like a properly tailored suit fits the person it was made for. It's not restrictive or too loose in places, it complements my personality and covers what it needs to in terms of what it shows to others. It's just a word that best describes the summary of my identity, much like Asian/American describes me or millennial describes me. I don't feel non-binary, I am non-binary.

As far as dysphoria, I do feel that on occasion but I notice it more in comparison to the euphoria I feel when my body and others' perception of it is "right." The first time someone used my pronouns I felt happy, thrilled, even excited. The novelty wore off eventually but I still get that feeling of euphoria in spaces wherein people gender me correctly. Social dysphoria, for me, is like when someone references my age and they're more than a decade off the mark. It's as if I'm internally quirking my eyebrow and sarcastically saying "Really? I look how old?" When people consistently get my gender or age wrong and I don't feel like I can correct them it sucks. It's like someone constantly telling you what you think instead of asking what you think. Thinking something doesn't make one happy intrinsically but it can come as a relief when you finally get to voice your own thoughts and people actually listen. Gender is the same way, if no one ever questions it or tells you what to think about it you don't really notice that you have one; you just are.

Hope that makes sense.

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