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Do you think historians go to hypnotists to try to induce past life regressions?


WoodwindWhistler

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WoodwindWhistler

Exactly what it says on the tin.

Seems like the ultimately epic nerd move to me.

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If any historian did such a thing they'd immediately lose all credibility, deservingly so, and so I'd hope not!

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Maybe, but not to help them study history.

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fuzzipueo

No. While I don't really use my BA in History, I've never visited a past life regression to study history. I don't think, like i am a little boat says, it would be a reputable thing to do and as much as I get a kick out shows like the X-Files and Ancient Aliens and others of similar ilk, I really don't think subscribing to the thinking behind those shows would be a good idea if I ever do want to do something more significant with my degree than look up stuff for fun.

Also, hypnotism and past life regression can be highly subjective and really is unverifiable. If it were a true science, then there would be more people saying they were serfs in the Middle Ages (or the equivalent thereof elsewhere) than those saying they are the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other type of royal person, or in one case, the architect behind the Titanic ...

Just for fun, my mom and I used to speculate about it, because it was a fun pass time and we both had some interesting experiences with unusual dreams, etc., but we both agreed that the sense we got of the past life was pretty bleak, dark skies, and a hard life, not of some relatively clean environment like a castle (given the level of cleanliness of the time).

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Loddfafnir

Hah, that made me laugh.

Well, i'm trying to ger my BA in history, and i might say that historians are very mean people and wouldn't believe any of your words until you have credible sourses. Memory about your past life is not a credible sourse. Sooo, little chances.

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PastelPetrel

well, hypnotism has been known to create false memories via the power of suggestion, so I would hope not.

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IntrovertedBuddhist

Well since the op didn't say they'd be trying to publish their experiences in any academic form, I can see a historian doing it for fun. I mean, why not? Could be cool. :)

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WoodwindWhistler

well, hypnotism has been known to create false memories via the power of suggestion, so I would hope not.

Is that the only stereotype you're familiar with about a profession that has helped people crack problems they've been working with for years?

http://www.drmatt.com/2014/05/29/science-hypnosis-stop-smoking/

Maybe, but not to help them study history.

Hah, that made me laugh.

Also, hypnotism and past life regression can be highly subjective and really is unverifiable. If it were a true science, then there would be more people saying they were serfs in the Middle Ages (or the equivalent thereof elsewhere) than those saying they are the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other type of royal person, or in one case, the architect behind the Titanic ....

If any historian did such a thing they'd immediately lose all credibility, deservingly so, and so I'd hope not!

Hm, that's an awfully big bias you have there. What, people are not allowed to do what the please in their personal time? Their professional credibility is somehow in question if they inquire into something you personally don't believe in?

Prejudice certainly knows no bounds. But, when it's cloaked in egoistic semi-intellectualism it really tastes foul. Usually we leave bigotry like that to the ignorant.

It took six posts to get to someone who wasn't expressing this. Wow.

Let me just say that there are reports of kids fluently speaking languages they've had no exposure to, as well as verifiable facts they recount about who they were before. But please. Don't let me spoil your fun ragging on this.

http://www.iisis.net/index.php%3Fpage%3Dian-stevenson-semkiw-childhood-memories-reincarnation-past-life-lives

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Abbalinax

Yeah, no more than any other person might. I mean, like the others have said, not to seriously study history but maybe out of personal curiosity? They'd probably find it pretty interesting if they believed in that sort of stuff. ^_^

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well, hypnotism has been known to create false memories via the power of suggestion, so I would hope not.

Is that the only stereotype you're familiar with about a profession that has helped people crack problems they've been working with for years?

http://www.drmatt.com/2014/05/29/science-hypnosis-stop-smoking/

http://www.iisis.net/index.php%3Fpage%3Dian-stevenson-semkiw-childhood-memories-reincarnation-past-life-lives

Using hypnotism to help with addiction is very different than using it to help retrieve memories. By its nature hypnotism requires suggestibility, so memories could be easily morphed(this happens to memories each time you recall them in fact) Being suggestible while being told to quite smoking is a good thing, being suggestible while being told to remember a past life could cause some errors.

well, hypnotism has been known to create false memories via the power of suggestion, so I would hope not.

Is that the only stereotype you're familiar with about a profession that has helped people crack problems they've been working with for years?

http://www.drmatt.com/2014/05/29/science-hypnosis-stop-smoking/

Maybe, but not to help them study history.

Hah, that made me laugh.

Also, hypnotism and past life regression can be highly subjective and really is unverifiable. If it were a true science, then there would be more people saying they were serfs in the Middle Ages (or the equivalent thereof elsewhere) than those saying they are the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other type of royal person, or in one case, the architect behind the Titanic ....

If any historian did such a thing they'd immediately lose all credibility, deservingly so, and so I'd hope not!

Hm, that's an awfully big bias you have there. What, people are not allowed to do what the please in their personal time? Their professional credibility is somehow in question if they inquire into something you personally don't believe in?

Prejudice certainly knows no bounds. But, when it's cloaked in egoistic semi-intellectualism it really tastes foul. Usually we leave bigotry like that to the ignorant.

It took six posts to get to someone who wasn't expressing this. Wow.

Let me just say that there are reports of kids fluently speaking languages they've had no exposure to, as well as verifiable facts they recount about who they were before. But please. Don't let me spoil your fun ragging on this.

http://www.iisis.net/index.php%3Fpage%3Dian-stevenson-semkiw-childhood-memories-reincarnation-past-life-lives

I said it couldn't be used as a research tool, I didn't say that historians weren't allowed to have personal beliefs about it.

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Skycaptain

The concept is plausible, people under hypnosis have responded to questions as if they are in a different era.

I'm not aware of historians presenting the results of these sessions as factually accurate, but it's possible that they could provide a starting point for traditional academic research.

Look up " The Bloxham Tapes" on Google, this was tested in 1971.

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fuzzipueo

The concept is plausible, people under hypnosis have responded to questions as if they are in a different era.

I'm not aware of historians presenting the results of these sessions as factually accurate, but it's possible that they could provide a starting point for traditional academic research.

Look up " The Bloxham Tapes" on Google, this was tested in 1971.

And I found this jewel: Bloxham Tapes-The Skeptic's Dictionary:

The evidence does not indicate that Bloxham, Evans, or Iverson were frauds or hoaxers, but they misled many people. It is more likely that this is a case of cryptomnesia and a misunderstanding of the nature of memories evoked under hypnosis

In uncovering the origins of Jane Evans's "past lives," [Melvin] Harris was following the method of Dr. Edwin Zolik, who had done extensive research on using hypnosis to regress clients to past lives. He hypnotized his subjects and told them to remember "previous existences." He tape-recorded the sessions and then played them back to his subjects when they were wide awake. None of the subjects admitted to knowing anything about their past lives. Zolik concluded that the subjects were sincere. He hypnotized them again and they were able to remember the fictitious sources on which they'd based their past lives. As Harris put it: Zolick "showed that 'past-life' memories could easily be nothing but a mixture of remembered tales and strong, symbolically colored emotions" (Harris 2003: 151). Zolick recommended his method to anyone who did past-life regressions. Bloxham never once inquired into the possibly mundane origins of the more than four hundred regressions he did. Iverson claimed that the Bloxham tapes were "researched and there is no evidence they are fantasies....they appear to convey exactly what they claim: a genuine knowledge and experience of the past." It is obvious that if they were researched, they were not researched properly.

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fuzzipueo

well, hypnotism has been known to create false memories via the power of suggestion, so I would hope not.

Is that the only stereotype you're familiar with about a profession that has helped people crack problems they've been working with for years?

http://www.drmatt.com/2014/05/29/science-hypnosis-stop-smoking/

Maybe, but not to help them study history.

Hah, that made me laugh.

Also, hypnotism and past life regression can be highly subjective and really is unverifiable. If it were a true science, then there would be more people saying they were serfs in the Middle Ages (or the equivalent thereof elsewhere) than those saying they are the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other type of royal person, or in one case, the architect behind the Titanic ....

If any historian did such a thing they'd immediately lose all credibility, deservingly so, and so I'd hope not!

Hm, that's an awfully big bias you have there. What, people are not allowed to do what the please in their personal time? Their professional credibility is somehow in question if they inquire into something you personally don't believe in?

Prejudice certainly knows no bounds. But, when it's cloaked in egoistic semi-intellectualism it really tastes foul. Usually we leave bigotry like that to the ignorant.

It took six posts to get to someone who wasn't expressing this. Wow.

Let me just say that there are reports of kids fluently speaking languages they've had no exposure to, as well as verifiable facts they recount about who they were before. But please. Don't let me spoil your fun ragging on this.

http://www.iisis.net/index.php%3Fpage%3Dian-stevenson-semkiw-childhood-memories-reincarnation-past-life-lives

Actually, historians are under the same pressure scientists are to prove their sources and facts. I never said anything about people not being able to do it for fun. However, as a reliable, verifiable research method? That's a big nope.

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WoodwindWhistler

The concept is plausible, people under hypnosis have responded to questions as if they are in a different era.

I'm not aware of historians presenting the results of these sessions as factually accurate, but it's possible that they could provide a starting point for traditional academic research.

Look up " The Bloxham Tapes" on Google, this was tested in 1971.

And I found this jewel: Bloxham Tapes-The Skeptic's Dictionary:

The evidence does not indicate that Bloxham, Evans, or Iverson were frauds or hoaxers, but they misled many people. It is more likely that this is a case of cryptomnesia and a misunderstanding of the nature of memories evoked under hypnosis

In uncovering the origins of Jane Evans's "past lives," [Melvin] Harris was following the method of Dr. Edwin Zolik, who had done extensive research on using hypnosis to regress clients to past lives. He hypnotized his subjects and told them to remember "previous existences." He tape-recorded the sessions and then played them back to his subjects when they were wide awake. None of the subjects admitted to knowing anything about their past lives. Zolik concluded that the subjects were sincere. He hypnotized them again and they were able to remember the fictitious sources on which they'd based their past lives. As Harris put it: Zolick "showed that 'past-life' memories could easily be nothing but a mixture of remembered tales and strong, symbolically colored emotions" (Harris 2003: 151). Zolick recommended his method to anyone who did past-life regressions. Bloxham never once inquired into the possibly mundane origins of the more than four hundred regressions he did. Iverson claimed that the Bloxham tapes were "researched and there is no evidence they are fantasies....they appear to convey exactly what they claim: a genuine knowledge and experience of the past." It is obvious that if they were researched, they were not researched properly.

(also @ M4rble) Which is why my link is about kids who spontaneously recall past life events, that are compared to existing knowledge, not people who recall them for the first time under hypnosis.

"Memories accessed in adulthood can be confounded by the adult reading historical information about the proposed past lifetime or era, which could taint the case. Dr. Stevenson did not trust information gained through past life regressions, as he felt subjects could fabricate or make up memories."

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fuzzipueo

I don't deny what those kids have experienced, or for that matter, what anyone experiences on the psychic plain. I've experienced things that have no rational explanations. Little tics of deja vu and flashes of memory that could not be mine, yet somehow are. However, I also know that if I brought those experiences to a historian to use as part of a research project, I'd probably get laughed at and thrown out of the office.

It's a fun concept to play with, I admit and it's a great plot device in a urban fantasy or fantasy mystery or what-have-you and I do think there is a lot science will never be able to completely explain away (to be honest, I hope this never happens with all the really oddball mysteries this multi/universe has), but if you want a job dealing with science or history, etc., you kinda need to keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum, unless you can convince Chris Carter to bring X-Files back again ... I'd behind that all the way. :)

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Loddfafnir

well, hypnotism has been known to create false memories via the power of suggestion, so I would hope not.

Is that the only stereotype you're familiar with about a profession that has helped people crack problems they've been working with for years?

http://www.drmatt.com/2014/05/29/science-hypnosis-stop-smoking/

Maybe, but not to help them study history.

Hah, that made me laugh.

Also, hypnotism and past life regression can be highly subjective and really is unverifiable. If it were a true science, then there would be more people saying they were serfs in the Middle Ages (or the equivalent thereof elsewhere) than those saying they are the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other type of royal person, or in one case, the architect behind the Titanic ....

If any historian did such a thing they'd immediately lose all credibility, deservingly so, and so I'd hope not!

Hm, that's an awfully big bias you have there. What, people are not allowed to do what the please in their personal time? Their professional credibility is somehow in question if they inquire into something you personally don't believe in?

Prejudice certainly knows no bounds. But, when it's cloaked in egoistic semi-intellectualism it really tastes foul. Usually we leave bigotry like that to the ignorant.

It took six posts to get to someone who wasn't expressing this. Wow.

Let me just say that there are reports of kids fluently speaking languages they've had no exposure to, as well as verifiable facts they recount about who they were before. But please. Don't let me spoil your fun ragging on this.

http://www.iisis.net/index.php%3Fpage%3Dian-stevenson-semkiw-childhood-memories-reincarnation-past-life-lives

Well, i had no idea i offended someone.

I laughed because it's really sounds funny. and it's supposed to sound funny. I wasn't laughing at someone.

And about kids, well i never heard about any kids spontaneously speaking sumerian or even old english.

And well, maybe it's real and exist is phenomena, but it's does not have any scientific proofs, so it can't be used in science.

I guess all the misunderstandings are because we have different ideas about how history science works.

And i didn't say people shouldn't do it. For fun as much as they want. I just said that previous life memories can't be used as a primal source.

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WoodwindWhistler

If they did that, then they would not be historians.

I don't deny what those kids have experienced, or for that matter, what anyone experiences on the psychic plain. I've experienced things that have no rational explanations. Little tics of deja vu and flashes of memory that could not be mine, yet somehow are. However, I also know that if I brought those experiences to a historian to use as part of a research project, I'd probably get laughed at and thrown out of the office.

It's a fun concept to play with, I admit and it's a great plot device in a urban fantasy or fantasy mystery or what-have-you and I do think there is a lot science will never be able to completely explain away (to be honest, I hope this never happens with all the really oddball mysteries this multi/universe has), but if you want a job dealing with science or history, etc., you kinda need to keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum, unless you can convince Chris Carter to bring X-Files back again ... I'd behind that all the way. :)

Oh wait, you guys really think I'm trying to say people should submit this to academia as fact?

I didn't say that in the OP, and I'm not saying it here. That the people recorded it and it's available, though, that's significant. If they hadn't, we wouldn't know about it. So, they're not historians, but they did use historian's work. (Besides, even regular memories are subject to warping over time. I can only assume that any memory recall and its interpretation will also be affected by a jump between people)

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If they did that, then they would not be historians.

I don't deny what those kids have experienced, or for that matter, what anyone experiences on the psychic plain. I've experienced things that have no rational explanations. Little tics of deja vu and flashes of memory that could not be mine, yet somehow are. However, I also know that if I brought those experiences to a historian to use as part of a research project, I'd probably get laughed at and thrown out of the office.

It's a fun concept to play with, I admit and it's a great plot device in a urban fantasy or fantasy mystery or what-have-you and I do think there is a lot science will never be able to completely explain away (to be honest, I hope this never happens with all the really oddball mysteries this multi/universe has), but if you want a job dealing with science or history, etc., you kinda need to keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum, unless you can convince Chris Carter to bring X-Files back again ... I'd behind that all the way. :)

Oh wait, you guys really think I'm trying to say people should submit this to academia as fact?

I didn't say that in the OP, and I'm not saying it here. That the people recorded it and it's available, though, that's significant. If they hadn't, we wouldn't know about it. So, they're not historians, but they did use historian's work. (Besides, even regular memories are subject to warping over time. I can only assume that any memory recall and its interpretation will also be affected by a jump between people)

You didn't say much in the OP. Why would you mention they're historians? What's the intent of this discussion then?

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ChillaKilla

I'm calling shenanigans on anyone who thinks hypnotically induced past life regressions are a viable method for discovering facts

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Joe the Stoic
Oh wait, you guys really think I'm trying to say people should submit this to academia as fact?

You said "historians," though.

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  • 2 weeks later...
WoodwindWhistler

And about kids, well i never heard about any kids spontaneously speaking sumerian or even old english.

And well, maybe it's real and exist is phenomena, but it's does not have any scientific proofs, so it can't be used in science.

You're conflating a couple of things here. To gather evidence on something, even if you can't demonstrate how it works, is still science. We didn't know how photosynthesis worked until we got really, really powerful microscopes, but we did know that the exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide was occurring.

We may not know the physical (or otherwise) underpinnings of past life memory works, though just look at instinct- that's an encoded psychological state from genes- and here's an experiment where a generation of mice 'remembered' what the previous generation went through: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24677-fear-of-a-smell-can-be-passed-down-several-generations/

As for sumerian or old english, ever thought that perhaps 'meta memories' fade over time? i.e., the same way you can't remember your infant experiences, you cannot recall something that's too far back. Your brain prunes stuff. That's just speculation, of course.

You didn't say much in the OP. Why would you mention they're historians? What's the intent of this discussion then?

Oh wait, you guys really think I'm trying to say people should submit this to academia as fact?

You said "historians," though.

Because historians are by default history enthusiasts, so I'd guess they'd have more personal desire to delve into past lives than the average layman. Hence my 'ultimate nerd move' quip . . .

Sorry if that didn't translate. Ha.

I'm calling shenanigans on anyone who thinks hypnotically induced past life regressions are a viable method for discovering facts

Didn't I just clarify that I didn't mean that??

But recording what they experience- outside of what can be checked against existing knowledge- is at least more interesting than the guesswork that, say, historical fiction- or even sometimes real history- that gets tossed around.

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Mice have epigenetic changes that get passed down through generations.

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Joe the Stoic

You said "historians," though.

Because historians are by default history enthusiasts, so I'd guess they'd have more personal desire to delve into past lives than the average layman. Hence my 'ultimate nerd move' quip . . .

Sorry if that didn't translate. Ha.

Except they are not that. Historians are professionals who research and keep track of history under academic discipline. You wouldn't call someone who asks ghosts to split the atom a physicist, just because they were very interested in it. Same goes for historians.

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I asked my wife, who's got a Masters of History, and works as a Historic Interpreter. Her response was ".....yeah probably", with a shrug.

Take that how you will.

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touching-not-so-much

I couldn't say about historians, but I did it and a brother of a friend did it, at a "psychic fair" in Tulsa back when I was 19. It was interesting but I didn't "feel hypnotized", though the friend's brother has the type of pesonality that he "blacked out" and remembered nothing he said under hypnosis and when we played the microcassette back of him, he just kept going "NO WAY! NO WAY, NO WAY!"

I was a dark-skinned hunter of some kind. I think I answered "939" when the asked me what year it was, I have no idea what that was in relation to. I was a prety burly, fit guy dressed in sort of minimal treated leather. I was hunting a really large boar, like "the Great Boar" that people might tell stories about. I think this particular one had been a menace to my village. I found him and threw my spear, and I could hear it make that "thunk-boing-oing-oing" noise when my aim was off and the spear hit a tree and vibrated with the force of the impact. Then the boar charged and gored me.

The next "scene" was me in a ditch in the clearing, looking up at the sky, feeling calm and at peace, and eventually I saw myself flying/floating into the top of some elaborate white marble building with an ornate, partially open roof, and when I floated in and "landed", there were other people there, some like me, many looked very heroic and confident and like this happened all the time. I eventually felt like I recognized they were Valkyries and Norse heroes, and this was some part of Valhalla - which was weird because up until this point I thought I was more Arabic or some other non-Norse race.

Given this, I suspect that in the 70s and early 80s, some unorthodox historians might have given some credence to hypnosis, but I think the vast majority of scientists and cultural and historical experts would tend to steer away from hypnosis on just the level of uncertainty and non-universal acceptance, before you even get to specifics on HOW it is unreliable.

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  • 1 month later...
WoodwindWhistler

Mice have epigenetic changes that get passed down through generations.

Yes, and 'instinct' is said to be a psychological phenomenon of genes. What this shows us is that supposedly, instinct can be programmed within one generation of a very specific event. Doesn't that make you wonder? If you compare the evidence of human past lives against this, it seems it may have a metaphysical component as well as a genetic one. Even if it's completely physical it is still mind boggling to think that genes can be so precise as to 'remember' one particular smell and pass down the bad experience with it.

You said "historians," though.

Because historians are by default history enthusiasts, so I'd guess they'd have more personal desire to delve into past lives than the average layman. Hence my 'ultimate nerd move' quip . . .

Sorry if that didn't translate. Ha.

Except they are not that. Historians are professionals who research and keep track of history under academic discipline. You wouldn't call someone who asks ghosts to split the atom a physicist, just because they were very interested in it. Same goes for historians.

Yes, you have to be a nerd to want that as a profession.

You make it sound like that was an insult or something.

Some scientists experiment with psychedelic drugs and get massive breakthroughs in the process. One of the most notable is Francis Crick, who discovered the double helix to begin with and worked with the code. This seems much less invasive than that, but that's just me. Just because someone does something weird or unconventional in pursuit of understanding doesn't discount the fact that they're professional.

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Some scientists experiment with psychedelic drugs and get massive breakthroughs in the process. One of the most notable is Francis Crick, who discovered the double helix to begin with and worked with the code.

No. Stuff you read in Reddit is quite a bit less than reliable. :rolleyes:

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SexNotHaver

I was so intrigued by your question that I went for a past life regression and it turns out I was a historian (or AN historian, if you want) in the previous life and that historian did often go to hypnotists to try to induce a past life regression. I don't know if that answers your question.

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