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Trauma verses Orientation could some therapy help?


AdoptedFather

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AdoptedFather

I am the adopted parent/parent in law of a very young couple who just divorced over the issue of asexuality/ aromanticism. When my son "came out" to my daughter in law as asexual and aromantic we were all very supportive of him. My daughter in law agreed to all his demands and was fully prepared to stand by her man no matter what. The problem is she was already pregnant. Everything was fine as long as she was expecting but when the baby was born my son became very abusive to both my daughter in law and his little girl. He claimed the baby had been taken from him by rape and he threw them out of the house in the middle of the night in the winter time. They came to live with my wife and I. My son refuses to visit us or pay child support and he accuses me of betraying him by taking in the two people he claims ruined his life. He tells everybody that his ex wife raped him to get child support money out of him and he bullies her on the internet.

When I adopted my son I was married to another woman, and she was horribly abusive to him. We divorced over this issue and I kept custody of the boy, and I love him dearly. I totally support him in being any sexual orientation he feels he has but I do not support him in neglecting and abusing his daughter and his ex wife. I have suggested to him that I would gladly pay for therapy and I gave him some back ground into his mother's behavior that he was too young to properly remember. He blew up at me and accused me of trying to send him to reparative therapy and blaming his sexual orientation on trauma. I do not blame his lack of sex drive on trauma, but I do think his extreme reaction to being a parent and having had a sexual relationship is based in trauma. Even if he is very sex repulsed, he has no right to accuse his ex-wife of rape if he didn't tell her no. I told him so and now he won't speak to me. He says if she had really loved him she would have known how he felt.

I confess I am a little angry with groups like AVEN for promoting the idea that all therapy around sexual orientation is reparative therapy. Trauma does impact the way in which people respond to touch and intimacy, and my son's behavior is pathological by any one's standards. I have lost my son and my granddaughter has lost her father over this misconception. Why is asexual orientation sacrosanct? Heterosexuality is not. We have to go to therapists when we are having problems with our sex lives due to trauma. I would gladly find him an Ace-friendly therapist. So very sad.

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I confess I am a little angry with groups like AVEN for promoting the idea that all therapy around sexual orientation is reparative therapy. Trauma does impact the way in which people respond to touch and intimacy, and my son's behavior is pathological by any one's standards. I have lost my son and my granddaughter has lost her father over this misconception. Why is asexual orientation sacrosanct? Heterosexuality is not. We have to go to therapists when we are having problems with our sex lives due to trauma. I would gladly find him an Ace-friendly therapist. So very sad.

I'm sorry you are in this sad situation and hope you can help your son use therapy to overcome his problems.

However, blaming AVEN or asexuality for your son's problems is neither rational nor deserved. AVEN does not "promote" what you have claimed. What we do say is that asexuality is not a disorder and thus asexuals as such do not need to try to change. Some asexuals believe that sexual orientation is fluid and can change; some do not. But we don't see asexuality as pathology.

Your son's behavior is indeed reprehensible and he needs to deal with that behavior through therapy before he causes more harm to his family and other relationships. His behavior is not asexual behavior. The only commonality between asexuals is that we do not want partnered sex. Otherwise, we are all individuals with the individual differences that other orientations display.

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Rin-likes-rain

I am an asexual who became aromantic sex-repulsed touch-repulsed by trauma. In counseling, I learned quite a lot about what is considered to be sexual abuse. Just because he never said no, if he felt pressured or that he had no choice but to say yes, it is still considered abuse. I'm not saying your daughter in law meant to hurt him. She didn't know. But your son has a right to his hurts. If you want things to get better, they do need to go through couples therapy where they can talk safely with a mediator. (I do suggest he go through counseling for a while before couples therapy. Tell him it's therapy for his abuse and he will be more willing to go). Your son can explain exactly how he feels, the counselor can explain to his ex-wife why he feels this way, and why it is considered abuse. And after she understands, she needs to validate his feelings and apologize. I can't say they will become a family again, but maybe your son will be able to be the father that little girl deserves. And maybe he will understand that she didn't mean to hurt him.

I know it's hard to understand from the outside, but your son is in pain. He is angry because it's easier than to feel how badly it hurts. Especially since he's an asexual. If anything, I think that makes it worse. Because he didn't even enjoy the consensual sex. I'm not excusing how he treated his wife and daughter. That was wrong and he had no right to do that. But try to understand where he is coming from. If you tell him he's being ridiculous, that it wasn't rape, its all in his head, why didn't he say no, all you are doing is isolating him. He needs to have his feelings validated. He needs you to listen and not judge him or tell him to get over it. He needs you to support him the way he needs it. Not how you think he needs it.

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I am an asexual who became aromantic sex-repulsed touch-repulsed by trauma. In counseling, I learned quite a lot about what is considered to be sexual abuse. Just because he never said no, if he felt pressured or that he had no choice but to say yes, it is still considered abuse. I'm not saying your daughter in law meant to hurt him. She didn't know. But your son has a right to his hurts. If you want things to get better, they do need to go through couples therapy where they can talk safely with a mediator. (I do suggest he go through counseling for a while before couples therapy. Tell him it's therapy for his abuse and he will be more willing to go). Your son can explain exactly how he feels, the counselor can explain to his ex-wife why he feels this way, and why it is considered abuse. And after she understands, she needs to validate his feelings and apologize. I can't say they will become a family again, but maybe your son will be able to be the father that little girl deserves. And maybe he will understand that she didn't mean to hurt him.

Considering the son's behavior as his mother recounts it below, I can't imagine that the wife owes him an apology for anything. In fact, she deserves legal relief from his continuing abusive behavior.

"He claimed the baby had been taken from him by rape and he threw them out of the house in the middle of the night in the winter time. They came to live with my wife and I. My son refuses to visit us or pay child support and he accuses me of betraying him by taking in the two people he claims ruined his life. He tells everybody that his ex wife raped him to get child support money out of him and he bullies her on the internet."

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AdoptedFather

I am an asexual who became aromantic sex-repulsed touch-repulsed by trauma. In counseling, I learned quite a lot about what is considered to be sexual abuse. Just because he never said no, if he felt pressured or that he had no choice but to say yes, it is still considered abuse. I'm not saying your daughter in law meant to hurt him. She didn't know. But your son has a right to his hurts. If you want things to get better, they do need to go through couples therapy where they can talk safely with a mediator. (I do suggest he go through counseling for a while before couples therapy. Tell him it's therapy for his abuse and he will be more willing to go). Your son can explain exactly how he feels, the counselor can explain to his ex-wife why he feels this way, and why it is considered abuse. And after she understands, she needs to validate his feelings and apologize. I can't say they will become a family again, but maybe your son will be able to be the father that little girl deserves. And maybe he will understand that she didn't mean to hurt him.

He can have all the hurts he wants to have and his therapist can tell him anything that makes him feel better, but acting them out on his ex wife and daughter is not acceptable. No body is asking him to change his orientation or to even be an active parent to his daughter. But he must not perpetuate the cycle of abuse. There will be no couples therapy, they are not a couple in any way and my daughter in law is filing a court case against him for libel and also taking action to get his computer access taken away because of the cyber bullying. My son stands to lose his livelihood if this happens and still he won't seek any kind of professional help and he specifically cites AVEN as his reason.

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binary suns

"can therapy help" therapy is designed to be helpful. if ever you feel tempted to see a therapist, that's reason enough to see one :D

personally I avoid therapists becuase verbal communication is something that I find frustrating. but right now, there's some stuff I want help with that that added barrier for me is one I'm willing to work through.

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Telecaster68

He might cite AVEN as his reason, but that doesn't mean it is, or that 'I'm just doing what a bunch of randoms on the Internet said' will get any traction in the courts. It's no more rational than any of his other actions.

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AdoptedFather

I am an asexual who became aromantic sex-repulsed touch-repulsed by trauma. In counseling, I learned quite a lot about what is considered to be sexual abuse. Just because he never said no, if he felt pressured or that he had no choice but to say yes, it is still considered abuse. I'm not saying your daughter in law meant to hurt him. She didn't know. But your son has a right to his hurts. If you want things to get better, they do need to go through couples therapy where they can talk safely with a mediator. (I do suggest he go through counseling for a while before couples therapy. Tell him it's therapy for his abuse and he will be more willing to go). Your son can explain exactly how he feels, the counselor can explain to his ex-wife why he feels this way, and why it is considered abuse. And after she understands, she needs to validate his feelings and apologize. I can't say they will become a family again, but maybe your son will be able to be the father that little girl deserves. And maybe he will understand that she didn't mean to hurt him.

I know it's hard to understand from the outside, but your son is in pain. He is angry because it's easier than to feel how badly it hurts. Especially since he's an asexual. If anything, I think that makes it worse. Because he didn't even enjoy the consensual sex. I'm not excusing how he treated his wife and daughter. That was wrong and he had no right to do that. But try to understand where he is coming from. If you tell him he's being ridiculous, that it wasn't rape, its all in his head, why didn't he say no, all you are doing is isolating him. He needs to have his feelings validated. He needs you to listen and not judge him or tell him to get over it. He needs you to support him the way he needs it. Not how you think he needs it.

Nobody is telling him anything is just in his head, or that he is being ridiculous or invalidating his feelings in any way we are simply telling him that his behavior is appalling and that he needs to get professional help right away before his life implodes. In therapy he could get all the validation you describe from people who are not emotionally conflicted. I cannot and will not be his therapist. I have to support my granddaughter and my daughter in law and be all things to all people in the whole situation. I agree he needs to be supported in a manner that fits his needs, so why will he not let me give him that in the form of a psychologist? And if it does not come from AVEN where does this pernicious paranoia about therapy come from. I never taught him that.

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Telecaster68

Since quite a lot of AVEN posters are having therapy, and it's regularly suggested as a course of action, his paranoia clearly doesn't come from AVEN. The only intersection between what he's saying and what AVEN's 'line' is that asexuality isn't to be therapied away, and you've said the same thing. His behaviour towards his wife and child is what needs the therapy, not his sexuality.

It sounds to me more like he knows he's in trouble and out of control and he's terrified of having to deal with it, which is what would happen in therapy, and he's reaching out to blame whatever's to hand. He probably believes it, to an extent, as well.

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ArwenandLegolas

Let me ask you a question, if your son was behaving this badly and refusing therapy for any reason other than sexual orientation, what would you do about it? I think his sexual orientation is completely secondary at this point. Is there anyway to legally force him to get help? I know that where I am the child support laws are pretty toothy and one might be able to do something through Children and Family Services. It is entirely possible that your son is very mentally ill and may even need hospitalization or medication. Something that helped me build a bridge out of an extreme psychosis was a mediator. Perhaps before the court cases go ahead it would be helpful to hire a mediator who could negotiate for your son to get therapy as part of a settlement of grievances.

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Rin-likes-rain

I'm not excusing his actions. I'm answering his questions about his son. I'm not saying he had a right to treat his wife and daughter like that. Not at all. But I come from a family with sexual abuse and domestic violence. They are both victims in a way. The only thing she has to say sorry for is not understanding him. He owes her a lot more than just a simple apology. It isn't a one-way street. Just because someone did something to you doesn't mean you don't have to apologize for what you did to them even if you don't understand what you did. I know she probably loved him to death and wouldn't dream of hurting him. But the fact is is that if someone feels like they have to consent, then it is considered abuse. Unintentional, but it is abuse. How he handled it, though, is inexcusable.

And I'm not saying you should be your sons therapist. I'm saying he needs a trained psychologist. And you just need to love him through it. And I wasn't insinuating that you are shutting him down. I'm just telling you what to avoid. Please understand that I'm coming from a sympathetic perspective. I'm not meaning to place blame on any one person. You asked how you can help your son, and I answered you. But the safety of your daughter in law and granddaughter take priority.

I'm sorry to have offended anyone. But I understand where everybody is coming from.

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AdoptedFather

I'm not excusing his actions. I'm answering his questions about his son. I'm not saying he had a right to treat his wife and daughter like that. Not at all. But I come from a family with sexual abuse and domestic violence. They are both victims in a way. The only thing she has to say sorry for is not understanding him. He owes her a lot more than just a simple apology. It isn't a one-way street. Just because someone did something to you doesn't mean you don't have to apologize for what you did to them even if you don't understand what you did. I know she probably loved him to death and wouldn't dream of hurting him. But the fact is is that if someone feels like they have to consent, then it is considered abuse. Unintentional, but it is abuse. How he handled it, though, is inexcusable.

And I'm not saying you should be your sons therapist. I'm saying he needs a trained psychologist. And you just need to love him through it. And I wasn't insinuating that you are shutting him down. I'm just telling you what to avoid. Please understand that I'm coming from a sympathetic perspective. I'm not meaning to place blame on any one person. You asked how you can help your son, and I answered you. But the safety of your daughter in law and granddaughter take priority.

I'm sorry to have offended anyone. But I understand where everybody is coming from.

At this point I am so angry that I don't care what my son is feeling. I taught him to be a man. Men don't abuse women or helpless children, no matter what they are feeling. I role modeled this for him when I stood up to his mother and divorced her and took her custody away from her. I loved her, but I did what was right for the innocent person in spite of my heart breaking. And I raised him like my own. I f you knew my daughter in law you would never say that anything she did in the bedroom was abuse. She is gentle, and sweet, accommodating to a fault. I f he felt that he had to have sex with her then that WAS all in his head because he was conflicted about his sexuality and had something to prove. Whatever pressure was on him was coming from him. It was not coming from her, because the minute she heard him say that he was asexual she took his hand and promised to respect that boundary completely. She could and wouldn't pressure anyone into anything. She won't even ask for feminine hygiene products from my wife without apologizing profusely. It is not possible that she was needy with him in bed, or took something that he showed any reluctance to give. I will not even entertain the idea. And he has launched a smear campaign on the internet and gotten men's rights groups involved . He is absolutely taking his anger with his mother out on her and there is no excuse for it. And even less excuse for him to refuse professional help. He will not go, so I am afraid I cannot love my son through this, because there is no end in sight. He won't get help. All your advice hinges on him receiving therapy and that is the one thing he has said he will not do.

Yes, Arwen I could force him into therapy. I am not saying everything I know about my options for doing that, and I will use any tool at my disposal including psychiatric intervention. However if he does not go willingly, and if he continues to attack my daughter in law online, I am going to disown him. I will still pay for his treatment and do everything in my power to keep him out of jail, but I will never speak to him again if he does not face himself and admit that he is not the victim. If he want's to be a victim of his mother's abuse and play on our sympathies for that, we will have no end of compassion for him, but urging men who have never met him or my daughter in law to send her rape threats and rape threats fro the baby too is too much. I don't care what kind of misunderstanding happened between two adults in the bedroom. I really don't care what he feels about his marriage. He should be a decent human being, like I taught him to be. I don't love him anymore. That's a horrible thing to say but it is the truth. Whatever he feels he should have handled it differently and at this point he doesn't need love, he needs consequences.

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But does he realize he has anger towards his mother? You said you had to review her behavior with him as he was too young at the time to properly remember. I'm just wondering if he is able to make the connection. It seems that some people don't realize they need to come to terms with past events ... especially traumatic ones. It is either too painful for them -or- they don't see the spillover effect.

Some new dads suffer from postnatal depression. Sleep deprivation, stress and anxiety about finances, past depressive episodes, etc. can create the perfect storm. This can lead to loss of energy and motivation ... but in some, it leads to aggression and violence. Did you know about postnatal depression in men? There are websites that discuss this and offer support. The reason I thought that this may be another factor is that he threw the mother and baby out in the middle of the night --- possibly when the baby was crying. As you say, everything was fine until the baby was born and then he became abusive.

Mental deterioration is indeed sad. And being conflicted can't be fun either. If you believe he needs consequences, then don't keep him out of jail. Perhaps if he is given a choice of time behind bars or therapy to deal with anger/depression, he may choose the latter ... at least I would hope.

Lucinda

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AVEN regularly suggests therapy for both couples and individuals, so no, he's not getting his anti-therapy ideals from us. A few members have had issues with therapists wanting to "fix" them, but we suggest finding a new, ace-friendly therapist when that happens... not giving up therapy. There are a couple of users who are anti-therapy, but in general, the consensus is to seek professional help (and if issues become too serious, threads are removed and links to how to receive professional help are sent to the user by the team).

As for his behavior - nope, not an asexual thing... very much his own issues. It may be increased by his orientation, but it's not coming from it. Though, the pressure of a person needing sex and you not being able to provide it without it hurting you, combined with past sexual trauma, very well could make him feel the same as if he had no choice. But, if she had no idea that's how he was feeling, she can't really be blamed. I've pushed myself way beyond what I should have done, out of feeling "broken", knowing the other person wanted "normal" stuff and just wanting to provide... it feels very similar to someone taking it. But, I never blamed my partners, because I never told them how it was feeling. It could be triggering his past traumas though and causing a PTSD type reaction in him maybe. Or at least increasing his fears.

It does sound like he needs help, but perhaps his fear of therapists trying to fix him is too strong to allow it. A support group type environment for abuse survivors and abusers may perhaps be something he's more likely to go to? Or, if you could maybe talk to a therapist that is ace friendly and reassure him that there will be no trying to "fix" his not wanting sex, merely help him work through his anger / trauma issues?

I don't really know both sides to the story. But, regardless of what did or did not happen in their bedroom, the child is blameless. And most likely the mother was just ignorant of his feelings. I'm glad they have some support. I hope your son finds a way to deal with his negative emotions towards what has happened in his life. A therapist would probably help that quite a bit. If he doesn't like what the one says, he can always shop around til he finds one that he does like and will be accepting of his orientation. I wish you all luck in sorting this out.

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AdoptedFather

Thank you, my wife is a maternity nurse and she has spoken with him about male post natal depression. He got very angry with her and said she was trying to argue away the "rape". You know it's fine with all of us that he feels raped and that he has shared with us that he feels that way, but it is simply not OK to act out on his wife as if she had raped him, because no matter what he feels that is not what happened. He needs to take some responsibility for his own choices, however much he regrets them. And the baby is, as you say completely innocent. What I don't understand is the need for vengeance. But I can pull strings and get him a psychiatric evaluation that I know he will fail, and then it will come down to the mental hospital or voluntarily seeking help. If I do this I probably won't have to disown him, he will disown me.

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I am sorry you are in the middle of this situation and designated the peacemaker. I would like to reply to anybody who has said your son is justified in feeling abused. For the purposes of therapy he may be, but consider this. I am asexual due to trauma. Without trauma I would be homosexual. For years I identified as bisexual and naturally as a result I had a lot of sex I didn’t want to have with women, and I even have a son as result. If your son were gay and claiming that the woman he married raped him because she should have known that he was gay, he would be laughed off the forum. I’m sorry to tell you but there is an attitude among some asexuals that asexuality is a wee bit precious and not wanting sex because one is asexual is soooo much different than just not wanting it for some other reason. This is asexual elitism and AVEN really does not support it but some peopel do. Your son has obviously gotten some very bad advice from somewhere, although I doubt it was here. As the man in the situation your son was definitely in a position of power in the bedroom unless it was a very unusual relationship, but it doesn’t sound like it was. I just want to say that asexual elitism is not cool with me and neither is misogyny disguised as a sexual orientation. He gets no sympathy from me.

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Serran, how would you have felt if you had gotten pregnant involuntarily and it was impossible without the consent of your partner to have an abortion, which your partner does not grant? Wouldn't you feel, erm, abused?

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As the man in the situation your son was definitely in a position of power in the bedroom unless it was a very unusual relationship,

That's so freaking sexist and bigoted, I don't even know where to start.

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