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Deception in Dating


Galactic Turtle

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marriage is a family decision just as much as it is an individual one.

... No, it's not. Marriage is totally individual (well, for the two people getting married). The only reason family gets involved is if YOU want them to be. There's plenty of people nowadays who get independent / into relationships / marry to get AWAY from their parents.

That doesn't mean I'm not looking for somebody that I like in every way but if I keep being picky and turn away perfectly good people then it reflects badly on me. If I say that I'm still looking into asexual things instead of exposing myself to situations that involve touch and sex like I'm supposed to be doing then that's also not good and shows that I still haven't matured enough to make the best decisions about relationships which gives my parents even more reason to step in and try to help me. Perhaps I'm not as pressed for time as I sometimes think I am but I feel like I just need to find somebody to show that I'm at least the slightest bit capable. The fact that sexuality has even been brought up as a topic of discussion in my house is already more than anyone signed up for.

The bolded part is the only sensible part of what you've said there.

You don't owe somebody a chance just because they're a "good person"

How "capable" you are of a relationship is of nobody's business but yours

There is no time limit on things like this

If your parents have a problem with your pacing for relationships, tough shit for them. That is THEIR problem. They are supposed to be your parents, not your groomers.

If all you do is let them step all over you like this, you are very unlikely to find someone you're truly compatible with and you're likely going to remain miserable in the process of trying to find them.

Also:

If I say that I'm still looking into asexual things instead of exposing myself to situations that involve touch and sex like I'm supposed to be doing then that's also not good and shows that I still haven't matured enough to make the best decisions about relationships which gives my parents even more reason to step in and try to help me.

Is that something you truly believe? Or is that just what your parents have told you?

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Galactic Turtle
If I say that I'm still looking into asexual things instead of exposing myself to situations that involve touch and sex like I'm supposed to be doing then that's also not good and shows that I still haven't matured enough to make the best decisions about relationships which gives my parents even more reason to step in and try to help me.

Is that something you truly believe? Or is that just what your parents have told you?

They said I need to grow up when it comes to thinking about relationships and improve myself by getting rid of my fears in order to have more age-appropriate opinions. I haven't made any progress and they're going to notice. I can't even bring myself to google search pornography.

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Anthracite_Impreza

You and your parents have an unhealthy relationship, just sayin'...

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Galactic Turtle

You and your parents have an unhealthy relationship, just sayin'...

We get along well. They're even happy about my job prospects now. ^_^ They're just worried about me when it comes to how I connect with and present myself in front of other people.

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They said I need to grow up when it comes to thinking about relationships and improve myself by getting rid of my fears in order to have more age-appropriate opinions. I haven't made any progress and they're going to notice. I can't even bring myself to google search pornography.

Mmm.. Let me be very blunt. It's questionable for your parents to expect specific opinions of you. Growing up is supposed to be a process where you form your own opinions and world views. Whether these opinions are appropriate should be for you and you alone to decide.

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That's an interesting concept and your relationship sounds like a great one. That's exactly what I want! ^_^ How did you manage to pull that off? I'm pretty sure I had a crush on somebody once though so that must mean I'm heteroromantic? I wanted to do all of the things with him that you do with your partner though... but I do really think I liked him so wouldn't that still be romantic? It just doesn't seem like anyone would be up for that type of relationship. No one I've ever met in my entire life even seems to think that that would be possible... but what you have is amazing. That would definitely be ideal. While even if it would be great to not end up in a sexual relationship with a man I definitely have to end up in a relationship that looks like that from the outside. I'm trying to get out of a situation where I have to have sex over and over again until I'm not afraid of it anymore.

Haha, I read out "how did you pull that off?" to my zucchini and we giggled :P This isn't something I managed to "pull off"... We've been friends for almost a decade and we really care about each other. Our relationship is built on a strong friendship and communication. The best way I can describe my QPR, it grew organically. We didn't force anything, we haven't forced ourselves to do anything along the way.

Also, just because you've had attraction to a guy doesn't mean you're hetero-romantic. You could be demi-romantic, or bi/pan-romantic, or aromantic, or ... like... anything! If you don't know what label describes your romantic orientation, that's okay. It took me many years to realize I was a lesbian, I'm sure it could take you many years to discover your romantic orientation.

Why is it so important for your future relationship to look like you're having sex to outsiders? it's nobody's business what happens in your bedroom. It's nobody's business what happens in my bedroom, or my parent's bedroom.... it's nobody's business....

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Galactic Turtle

Why is it so important for your future relationship to look like you're having sex to outsiders? it's nobody's business what happens in your bedroom. It's nobody's business what happens in my bedroom, or my parent's bedroom.... it's nobody's business....

I suppose I worded that strangely. I just need to be in a regular-looking relationship that results in all the normal things like a wedding and a house and kids and taxes and stuff...

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Why is it so important for your future relationship to look like you're having sex to outsiders? it's nobody's business what happens in your bedroom. It's nobody's business what happens in my bedroom, or my parent's bedroom.... it's nobody's business....

I suppose I worded that strangely. I just need to be in a regular-looking relationship that results in all the normal things like a wedding and a house and kids and taxes and stuff...

You haven't answered why you need that, except that you think other people expect that of you.

Do you know what you -- you yourself, not others -- really need?

And there is no such thing as a "regular-looking" relationship. Not every relationship has a wedding or a house or kids. Again, sounds like you're not looking into yourself but just at others' views of you.

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Galactic Turtle

Why is it so important for your future relationship to look like you're having sex to outsiders? it's nobody's business what happens in your bedroom. It's nobody's business what happens in my bedroom, or my parent's bedroom.... it's nobody's business....

I suppose I worded that strangely. I just need to be in a regular-looking relationship that results in all the normal things like a wedding and a house and kids and taxes and stuff...

You haven't answered why you need that, except that you think other people expect that of you.

Do you know what you -- you yourself, not others -- really need?

And there is no such thing as a "regular-looking" relationship. Not every relationship has a wedding or a house or kids. Again, sounds like you're not looking into yourself but just at others' views of you.

It doesn't matter what I want. I had all of high school and college to fool around with anybody I wanted to but that ended up being nobody. Now what I described is what I have to do and while I'm not sure if it's what I want or not, it's going to happen anyway. I'm just trying to get out of the sex thing but from this thread it seems like that's a hit or a miss too. :unsure:

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Telecaster68

Turtle - can I ask... are you in the West? Your parents' expectations seem rather overbearing.

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Galactic Turtle

Turtle - can I ask... are you in the West? Your parents' expectations seem rather overbearing.

Yes, I'm in the West. I think their expectations are standard even if a bit rigid. But it hasn't caused many problems so far. If anything, following their advice has only helped.

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Turtle... I don't know what else to say, other than perhaps you should really consider counseling. I don't mean that in a bad way, I need counseling, and I think most people need counseling at least once in their lives...

You do not have to get married. You do not have to be in a relationship. Also, with the way this economy is going, even if you got married and had kids it's quite unlikely you would even get a house. This heteronormative expectation of you has unbelievable pressure, I know, but you do not have to tolerate it or succumb to it.

It's also unlikely that a straight man would want to marry you as you have no interest in hand holding, sex, etc.

Nobody has a gun against your head forcing you into a relationship you don't want. And if someone does have a gun against your head? That's illegal, and I urge you to seek counseling and other support IRL.

Following your parents advice is a decent idea, however when you clearly know you do not want to hold hands, kiss, or have sex then you need to stop taking their advice in terms of romance. It's not going to help you at all. It's not helping you now.

If your parents are truly forcing you into a heterosexual marriage, then their expectations are not standard they are abusive. My parents? Their expectations of me and relationships? Are abusive.

I hope you can learn to accept yourself and accept that your life is your own, and no one else's.

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Galactic Turtle

It's my fault that I'm this way (and yes I know you can't choose orientation but you can ignore it in some cases and on top of that I don't know if I'm asexual or not to begin with). I'm just trying to remedy the situation as best as I can. With dating I was just wondering if it was common for people to be purposely deceptive or not and it seems like it's sometimes yes and sometimes no.

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The Not So Impossible Girl

Man, the biggest lies I hear people spitting out, are those lies about "maturity" or whatever.

People have made me feel like I'm not strong enough, or that I have some kind of underlying anxiety disorder because I know exactly what my threshold is when it comes to stress. I know that if I take more than 12 credits a semester, I will be overwhelmed with stress. I know that if I pull an all-nighter, rather than sleep before an exam, I'm going to feel like shit for that exam. I know that I get mini heart attacks if people yank me or touch me without my consent.

Some friends have told me: "That's really bad. It's not normal to have that low of a stress threshold. That's totally a sign of an anxiety disorder"

BULL SHIT. Everyone's stress level is different. There is no "normal" stress level. It's totally healthy to set boundaries for yourself. It's called taking care of yourself. Just because other people think you should do what they do in order to be "normal", doesn't mean you should!

It doesn't make you a more mature or stronger person to put yourself through situation you know is unhealthy for you to be in. Being a mature and strong person means drawing healthy boundaries for yourself, and sticking to your guns (as the expression goes), no matter what other people say to try to convince you otherwise.

So for those of you out there, who might feel pressured to be "mature" and go on dates you don't want to go on, or touch someone you don't want to touch, or kiss someone you don't want to kiss, please remember that being "mature" is not a checklist of things you need to do so that others will view you a certain way. Being mature means understanding yourself and being able to make healthy decisions for yourself.

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nanogretchen4

I'm also thinking that if your options are dating against your will with the intent of getting married or seeing a therapist, therapy sounds like the better option. If you honestly tell the therapist everything you've told us, the therapist is not going to pressure you into dating and marriage. The therapist might even be willing to talk to your family for you.

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Galactic Turtle

I'm also thinking that if your options are dating against your will with the intent of getting married or seeing a therapist, therapy sounds like the better option. If you honestly tell the therapist everything you've told us, the therapist is not going to pressure you into dating and marriage. The therapist might even be willing to talk to your family for you.

Before my trip they really wanted me to see a sex therapist but since I've been back they haven't mentioned it. I was a bit shocked they wanted me to go in the first place since their view on therapy in the past has been extraordinarily negative.

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It doesn't matter what I want.

Wrong. Relationships are ALL about what you (and your partner) want. Otherwise people wouldn't get into them. They're supposed to be a mutual, desirable experience.

If you're not wanting to be there from the get-go, why are you wasting your and the other person's time?

(and yes I know you can't choose orientation but you can ignore it in some cases

Yeah, a bunch of gay people could probably tell you how they've tried. Try talking to some of them and let me know how that worked out for them.

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Galactic Turtle
It doesn't matter what I want.

Wrong. Relationships are ALL about what you (and your partner) want. Otherwise people wouldn't get into them. They're supposed to be a mutual, desirable experience.

If you're not wanting to be there from the get-go, why are you wasting your and the other person's time?

(and yes I know you can't choose orientation but you can ignore it in some cases

Yeah, a bunch of gay people could probably tell you how they've tried. Try talking to some of them and let me know how that worked out for them.

I'm sorry. I'm just trying to find a solution that works for everybody.

And I don't want to waste their time. I won't be. I don't plan on having more than one or two boyfriends.

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Turtle - can I ask... are you in the West? Your parents' expectations seem rather overbearing.

Yes, I'm in the West. I think their expectations are standard even if a bit rigid. But it hasn't caused many problems so far. If anything, following their advice has only helped.

Expecting a kid to get married is normal... making them feel like they HAVE to, have no choice and can't have what they want though is certainly not. You kinda scare me with the way you talk about what you want, then how it doesn't matter cause you *have* to do this or that. :( It's not healthy for parents to still have that much control over you as an adult, especially not when it comes to life changing decisions like marriage and children.

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Galactic Turtle

Turtle - can I ask... are you in the West? Your parents' expectations seem rather overbearing.

Yes, I'm in the West. I think their expectations are standard even if a bit rigid. But it hasn't caused many problems so far. If anything, following their advice has only helped.

Expecting a kid to get married is normal... making them feel like they HAVE to, have no choice and can't have what they want though is certainly not. You kinda scare me with the way you talk about what you want, then how it doesn't matter cause you *have* to do this or that. :( It's not healthy for parents to still have that much control over you as an adult, especially not when it comes to life changing decisions like marriage and children.

It's because I'm not exactly known for my good decision making skills. There's still a chance that I could want all the normal things but just not know it yet. At the same time, it has only been a couple months since I came out to them. They could change their minds later on. I'm the youngest so I've gotten away with a lot of things that my sister never would've gotten away with so I understand it in a sense. They're letting me be different and they're letting me be myself, just not with this because it's so important to everybody. I'm 22 now, I probably can't have kids past 30, and I have zero prospects with zero experience outside of being assaulted at a college party because I can't take a hint. At this rate I could end up like my aunt and nobody ever talks to her anymore. Half the time I forget she even exists. But I'm really trying the online dating thing now if only just to get rid of the urge to puke and run away whenever someone says I'm attractive and to get used to talking to men in general outside of a work environment.

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Telecaster68

"They're letting me be different and they're letting me be myself"

You're an adult. You're not reliant on them to let you do anything. You can just do it. It's not up to them. No credit is due to parents for letting their children be themselves. That's what they should do. It's a basic threshold of not being abusive. You really don't owe them anything for this. (yes, this is the voice of experience...)

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Turtle - can I ask... are you in the West? Your parents' expectations seem rather overbearing.

Yes, I'm in the West. I think their expectations are standard even if a bit rigid. But it hasn't caused many problems so far. If anything, following their advice has only helped.

Expecting a kid to get married is normal... making them feel like they HAVE to, have no choice and can't have what they want though is certainly not. You kinda scare me with the way you talk about what you want, then how it doesn't matter cause you *have* to do this or that. :( It's not healthy for parents to still have that much control over you as an adult, especially not when it comes to life changing decisions like marriage and children.

It's because I'm not exactly known for my good decision making skills. There's still a chance that I could want all the normal things but just not know it yet. At the same time, it has only been a couple months since I came out to them. They could change their minds later on. I'm the youngest so I've gotten away with a lot of things that my sister never would've gotten away with so I understand it in a sense. They're letting me be different and they're letting me be myself, just not with this because it's so important to everybody. I'm 22 now, I probably can't have kids past 30, and I have zero prospects with zero experience outside of being assaulted at a college party because I can't take a hint. At this rate I could end up like my aunt and nobody ever talks to her anymore. Half the time I forget she even exists. But I'm really trying the online dating thing now if only just to get rid of the urge to puke and run away whenever someone says I'm attractive and to get used to talking to men in general outside of a work environment.

You're 22. Most 22 year olds are not known for their good decision making skills. In fact, you know, making bad decisions and mistakes is part of learning how to grow up. So... it's perfectly normal to make bad decisions. That's how you learn. And yeah, of course you could want all the other stuff - but it should be 100% up to you whether you try it or not, not them. You might want sex one day and love it, but you might not... and feeling obligated like this is not going to help you figure it out. :s

As for kids ... why couldn't you have kids past 30? Is there a medical condition? Cause, erm, plenty of women can have kids after 30...

Also, you being assaulted is not cause you "couldn't take a hint" - it's not YOUR fault you got assaulted.

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Several things about dating if/when you try it: You as an individual will be dating another individual. Your family should not have any part in it, either by telling you who you should/should not be dating, or how often, or where, or by expecting you to report back on the dates. If you bring your family into it in any way, you won't be fair to the individual you're dating.

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Galactic Turtle

"They're letting me be different and they're letting me be myself"

You're an adult. You're not reliant on them to let you do anything. You can just do it. It's not up to them. No credit is due to parents for letting their children be themselves. That's what they should do. It's a basic threshold of not being abusive. You really don't owe them anything for this. (yes, this is the voice of experience...)

I'm not a very good adult but I'm working on my self confidence. Maybe that will help someday.

You're 22. Most 22 year olds are not known for their good decision making skills. In fact, you know, making bad decisions and mistakes is part of learning how to grow up. So... it's perfectly normal to make bad decisions. That's how you learn. And yeah, of course you could want all the other stuff - but it should be 100% up to you whether you try it or not, not them. You might want sex one day and love it, but you might not... and feeling obligated like this is not going to help you figure it out. :s

As for kids ... why couldn't you have kids past 30? Is there a medical condition? Cause, erm, plenty of women can have kids after 30...

Also, you being assaulted is not cause you "couldn't take a hint" - it's not YOUR fault you got assaulted.

I thought it was harder to have kids after 30. Then again, I thought people started losing interest in sex once they hit 30 and it was basically over by the time you're 40 but people on AVEN said it actually lasts for much longer...

Several things about dating if/when you try it: You as an individual will be dating another individual. Your family should not have any part in it, either by telling you who you should/should not be dating, or how often, or where, or by expecting you to report back on the dates. If you bring your family into it in any way, you won't be fair to the individual you're dating.

The whole concept of dating as people on here describe it seems odd to me. Whenever my sister was seeing somebody, we'd know all about it. My dad even lectured one of her boyfriends in the living room for close to an hour. ^_^

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Turtle - Your family looks at things in a very old fashioned way. The only family I know that is like that anymore, in the U.S., is a Chinese family that does things more traditionally Chinese than American (they only let their kids listen to music in their native tongue, they talk in ... Mandarin? at home, etc). Otherwise, erm, just very religious conservatives (like, the kind that require chaperones for their daughters when they are around boys). That's why people find it so, so weird your family wants to get involved in your love life. And also why you got asked if you're in the West, you sound more like you're coming from some place where arranged marriages still exist (marriage is for the family, etc). It's not at all the kind of dating life that is "normal" in the U.S. in modern times.

As for kids - no, you can very much still have kids at 30. Plenty of women don't start til they're older nowadays. It's 35 when your fertility starts to decline. But, even then, there are a lot of treatments for that now.

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Galactic Turtle

Turtle - Your family looks at things in a very old fashioned way. The only family I know that is like that anymore, in the U.S., is a Chinese family that does things more traditionally Chinese than American (they only let their kids listen to music in their native tongue, they talk in ... Mandarin? at home, etc). Otherwise, erm, just very religious conservatives (like, the kind that require chaperones for their daughters when they are around boys). That's why people find it so, so weird your family wants to get involved in your love life. And also why you got asked if you're in the West, you sound more like you're coming from some place where arranged marriages still exist (marriage is for the family, etc). It's not at all the kind of dating life that is "normal" in the U.S. in modern times.

As for kids - no, you can very much still have kids at 30. Plenty of women don't start til they're older nowadays. It's 35 when your fertility starts to decline. But, even then, there are a lot of treatments for that now.

Oh. @__@ Well I'm from an African American family and while my parents and grandparents are pretty religious (southern baptist), to me the church is just another form of community. I don't even think I believe in god (though I've never said it out loud). And marriage is for the family in the sense that when you marry someone, you're marrying their family as well so their background is really important. When I was younger I was free to date though I never did. My sister and I were just never allowed to go to a boy's house or get rides home from school with boys. I wasn't even allowed to go into my male cousin's room after we got to middle school.

I know that appearances are really important. Most of my family are doctors/lawyers/accountants/engineers, and if they're not they're on the streets, in prison, or in the lowest ranks in the army. My cousin ended up joining a gang in high school and I've only seen him a handful of times since when we used to see each other every week so maybe it's because of the surrounding environment that they had reason to be strict. It's not uncommon for people to be completely cut off and ignored which is why it's bad if I keep acting strangely. It can only lead to even worse things so it's easiest in the long run if I get a good boyfriend but I can't if I don't let him touch me or have sex with me which is why this whole thing is a problem to begin with. Also I'm pretty sure my mom still thinks I'm lesbian sometimes which I'm not allowed to be like... at all.

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The Not So Impossible Girl

Protip: My mom had triplets at 39 and none of us had an kind of birth defects. So having kids way late into your 30s is totally a thing.

I wouldn't stress about keeping deadlines or whatever, if you're really dead set on dating and getting married to appease your family. My mom didn't even meet my dad until she was 32. I'd say you could still put off dating altogether for a good 3 more years and it wouldn't affect your prospects all that much.

And honestly, I was talking to some friends about this issue, and they think a good loophole for you would to get a really good guy friend who could pretend to be your boyfriend maybe? It wouldn't be too hard to strike that kind of a bargain with someone if they got free food sometimes and also was your friend already. I pretty much did that with a friend in high school: pretended to be his girlfriend, reaped all the benefits of just being his friend, but also got so much free food from his family and they treated me like a saint. It was a sweet deal.

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Me and my bf are really open with each other and try and not lie to each other, especially about sexual stuff since that's the only thing we've really fought about in our 2+ years together. We've had times where we've underestimated or overestimated our approximations, so me saying "I'll try and make sex possible in a month" which turns into 2 or 3 months made him think I was lying while to me it was just I wasn't physically ready yet (vaginismus sucks ass).

But my friend's poly/open relationship just ended because they lied about what they were okay with since they thought they'd get over it when they never did. She wasn't comfortable with being an equal partner with her ex-fiance's other partners and wanted to be the primary/main partner, and her ex-fiance apparently said she was okay with my friend sleeping with a guy but ended up being not okay with it. I'm not sure if these were lies so much as over/underapproximations of their own limits either, but I KNOW my friend was at least lying to herself when she said she was okay with being equal partners when her biggest and most often complaint to me was her jealousy over the other girlfriends her ex-fiance had.

I find that people lie sometimes but you tend to not want to be in the relationship long-term if one or more people involved are lying. Though people will quite often exaggerate what they're okay with because they're not sure what they're okay with at the time. Though I'm not very experienced in this field as I've never dated online, only had 2 real boyfriends with only my current one being super serious.

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I'm 22 now, I probably can't have kids past 30,

Nah, whoever told you that is full of crap (and if it was your parents, that's not all too surprising)

My mom gave birth to me a little before she turned 37.

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Turtle - Your family looks at things in a very old fashioned way. The only family I know that is like that anymore, in the U.S., is a Chinese family that does things more traditionally Chinese than American (they only let their kids listen to music in their native tongue, they talk in ... Mandarin? at home, etc). Otherwise, erm, just very religious conservatives (like, the kind that require chaperones for their daughters when they are around boys). That's why people find it so, so weird your family wants to get involved in your love life. And also why you got asked if you're in the West, you sound more like you're coming from some place where arranged marriages still exist (marriage is for the family, etc). It's not at all the kind of dating life that is "normal" in the U.S. in modern times.

As for kids - no, you can very much still have kids at 30. Plenty of women don't start til they're older nowadays. It's 35 when your fertility starts to decline. But, even then, there are a lot of treatments for that now.

Oh. @__@ Well I'm from an African American family and while my parents and grandparents are pretty religious (southern baptist), to me the church is just another form of community. I don't even think I believe in god (though I've never said it out loud). And marriage is for the family in the sense that when you marry someone, you're marrying their family as well so their background is really important. When I was younger I was free to date though I never did. My sister and I were just never allowed to go to a boy's house or get rides home from school with boys. I wasn't even allowed to go into my male cousin's room after we got to middle school.

I know that appearances are really important. Most of my family are doctors/lawyers/accountants/engineers, and if they're not they're on the streets, in prison, or in the lowest ranks in the army. My cousin ended up joining a gang in high school and I've only seen him a handful of times since when we used to see each other every week so maybe it's because of the surrounding environment that they had reason to be strict. It's not uncommon for people to be completely cut off and ignored which is why it's bad if I keep acting strangely. It can only lead to even worse things so it's easiest in the long run if I get a good boyfriend but I can't if I don't let him touch me or have sex with me which is why this whole thing is a problem to begin with. Also I'm pretty sure my mom still thinks I'm lesbian sometimes which I'm not allowed to be like... at all.

There is a huge difference between someone joining a gang and someone not having a boyfriend. My family cuts off ties with people too, if they are drug dealers or various other "low" elements that become dangerous. Simply being different should never be a reason to cut off your children though and if it is, well... then I would question your family caring about you. Not wanting a boyfriend right now should never be a reason to be cut off from your family in a caring one.

Yes, in families where a lot of people go the bad route being more strict can happen. But, controlling still should not. It still should be your decision to do any of that. You do not want to be miserable and married to someone who needs something that you are repulsed by. So putting these deadlines on yourself, you're really worrying many of us that you're going to do things to hurt yourself just to seem "normal". :( And many of us have done that before, we pushed ourselves to be "normal" and we regretted it, it hurts and it's not fun. Spend 10 years having sex you do not want, even a non-repulsed person can become repulsed. I can't imagine the torture it would be on a repulsed person.

And yeah, you aren't sure if you're ace or not. That's OK. Being questioning is totally fine. Lots of people question their orientation. But, it's a self-discovery journey, not a "my family says" journey. You could overcome some of your past traumas and become less repulsed, you could find a boy you like and find out you're demi, whatever. All of it is acceptable. But it all has to come from you and not them . Or it's got potential to make your negative feelings on sex and stuff worse. Being assaulted takes ages to get past, being told it's your fault doesn't help the healing process. And being pressured to "get over it" and "be normal" doesn't either. :(

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