"Het aces" and exclusion from the LGBT+ community

[likeappletrees]

I've seen some posts circulating social media websites about so-called "het aces" (by which I assume they mean heteroromantic asexuals), and how they're actually straight and should therefore not be included in the LGBT+ community.

I'm willing to write it off as part of the We-Have-It-Worse Olympics and blatant prejudice against asexuals, since in my opinion heteroromantic asexuals still don't truly fit in in a heteronormative society, but I want to hear everyone's take on the subject.

Have you ever felt excluded from the LGBT+ community? If you are a heteroromantic asexual, how do you feel upon hearing this? Is the problem here a confusion between romantic and sexual attraction, or am I interpreting this wrong? Would you call this acephobia? Would you ever use the word acephobia?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

[Evren]

I keep seeing het aces themselves saying that they aren't LGBT+, it's giving me stuff to think about. I just kind of tossed asexual into LGBT+, but I wouldn't really mind if it wasn't. It's hard because I am sure that some het aces find being LGBT+ really important to them, while others don't want it at all.

[Autumn Season]

When I think of LGBT+ communities, I imagine them to mainly have members who love people of the same sex. I might be wrong about this. Anyway, for this reason I don't have a strong need to connect with these communities. I'm a het ace btw.

[Calamity Jim]

I'm homo-ace, but gonna weigh in here.

I've had some het aces say some REALLY homophobic things to me. That doesn't mean that I don't think they should be included in the LGTBQ+ umbrella, but it does mean that there are people who need to educate themselves before trying to join the LGTBQ+ community because they hold values that are harmful to the LGTBQ+ community.

BUT!

The LGTBQ+ community also holds values that are harmful to the ace community, and that are self harming, as bi- and pan-erasure, plus non-binary gender identity erasure are still things that the LGTBQ+ community is struggling with internally.

I think that het aces and the LGTBQ+ community will someday successfully amalgamate, but there are people on both sides that need to seriously educate themselves because they are ruining it for the rest of us. :/

[Salted Karamel]

Privately, I think of myself as queer, but I never bother to seek out a place in any LGBT+ communities because trying to explain who I am seems too bothersome to me. Anyway, I don't need to prove myself to a community and be awarded a place within it by other humans to know who I am for myself.

[timewarp]

Our university LGBT+ society is even open to heterosexuals - and very explicitly so. The committee is very diverse and also includes an ace. It's not about specific minorities, it's about equality regarding gender and sexual orientation. Maybe people are more progressive around here - in any case I definitely like it how things are being handled here.

[Snao Cone]

If I'm at all excluded from the LGBT+ community it's by my own choice, and not how I'm treated by others. I've always been a strong ally but I've never thought my aceness made me any more qualified to be a part of it than my allyship. I'm aro ace, too, so I fit into the heteronormative narrative even less than heteroromantic aces, but since I'm still straight passing I'm well aware of the ways in which I have it easier than LGBT+ people.

[Feliz]

This is a very interesting topic. Thanks for bringing it up for discussion. As a writer who has researched LGBT publishers to add to my list of where to submit in the future, most of these publishers accept and welcome het aces. They just can't accept cis-het-sexual main characters who dominate the story, for obvious reasons. Some of the publishers even include het aces in the LGBT community. I had no idea there were het aces who disagreed until this thread, so I don't know what to say about that. After all, it's their right to do so, but even so, I always looked at the LGBT community as a gathering of non-cis-het sexual people who have always been looked at as the default. Non-cis-het sexual people can certainly be allies, though, which falls under the A in certain LGBT acronym variants, along with other A identities, depending on whoever views it that way. Nevertheless, I've been using queer more often as a reclamation because I look at it as a catch-all term for everyone who isn't cis-het-sexual, which includes everyone within the ace spectrum, straight or not, but that's just me.

What about het demisexuals? Would they fit in a tad more than other aces? Do they or have they? I was just curious, that's all.

[WinterWanderer]

I'm het ace (but gray-romantic, not fully heteroromantic). I identify as LGBT+, because my orientation isn't quite straight, and it does set me apart from other straight people. I often feel like I can't relate to the allosexual people around me.

But I can see why people would exclude het aces from the LGBT+ community. We don't have the same challenges as other LGBT+ people do.

I think in terms of community, I feel most at home in the ace community, and whether LGBT+ people welcome me into their community is up to them. If they don't feel that I belong with them, I still feel right at home here at AVEN :)

[Feliz]

fiorya: That's a very good insight. Thanks for your post. Also, I need to get into the habit of using allosexual. Sexual people can easily have a different connotation to those unfamiliar with asexuality.

[IntrovertedBuddhist]

Why don't us ace folks just start our own A-LGBT+ community since we kind of have nothing to do with "sexual" orientations but have all of LGBT+ romantic orientations represented pretty well.

Just a thought. I'm not a huge fan of labels or how others perceive me so I could take it or leave it.

[R_1]

As an aro-ace, there isn't simply any reason for me to join in the LGBTQ community as there is no benefits I can imagine out of it, and more negatives such as having to deal with homophobia due to association. Asides, the argument for the two sides of whether to join or be away from the LGBTQ has their valid points, and as well as whether we are queer or not, both have valid points. Even on whether the A has to be asexual/aromantic, both sides have valid points there.

[Akira Jumps]

The idea that one sexuality or another can 'pass' as straight is, in itself, obnoxious and ridiculous. Unfortunately, it is still a necessary evil in many parts of the world. You can't be free with your sexuality in a lot of countries and/or regions.

But, frankly, the We-Have-It-Worse Olympics as you call them needs to stop. Yeah. Everyone faces discrimination. *Everyone*. You may have been lucky enough to grow up in an area that is accepting of different sexualities but that doesn't change the fact that many people do not.

Yes, het-aces can get discriminated against. Case and point - LGBTQIA+ communities refusing to support them because they aren't discriminated against 'enough.' Het-aces getting into relationships and not wanting them to be sexual, het-aces being scared to date because they don't want it to be sexual, het-aces who have sex but don't really appreciate it the way their partner does, het-aces who are pressured to have sex because that's what 'normal' people do. There's a lot of discrimination in the world, and being part of it doesn't help anyone.

[Snao Cone]

The idea that one sexuality or another can 'pass' as straight is, in itself, obnoxious and ridiculous. Unfortunately, it is still a necessary evil in many parts of the world. You can't be free with your sexuality in a lot of countries and/or regions.

But, frankly, the We-Have-It-Worse Olympics as you call them needs to stop. Yeah. Everyone faces discrimination. *Everyone*. You may have been lucky enough to grow up in an area that is accepting of different sexualities but that doesn't change the fact that many people do not.

Yes, het-aces can get discriminated against. Case and point - LGBTQIA+ communities refusing to support them because they aren't discriminated against 'enough.' Het-aces getting into relationships and not wanting them to be sexual, het-aces being scared to date because they don't want it to be sexual, het-aces who have sex but don't really appreciate it the way their partner does, het-aces who are pressured to have sex because that's what 'normal' people do. There's a lot of discrimination in the world, and being part of it doesn't help anyone.

That's true, there are multiple levels of operation in life that discrimination may come from, and focusing too much on one level will overlook struggles and obstacles that other people do face even though they might not be the same letter of an acronym as you. Hetero aces in relationships might face less discrimination from the public or their family/friends because their relationship on the outside appears to be straight. Gay or lesbian people may be less likely to face the pressure and guilt from their partners, based on them being of the same sexuality. Both hetero ace people and LGBT+ people can face their sexuality or identity being pathologized or morally condemned by different sources. Turning that into a competition is comparing apples to oranges, in that they're not the same but also not all that different.

[UncommonNonsense]

I'm Aro, Ace, and Agender.. and I do consider myself part of the LGBT+ community, even though I rarely get involved in anything besides here on AVEN.

I've always considered the LGBT+ community to be, ideally, open to anyone who identifies as having a minority sexual orientation or gender expression. Ideally. I know there are some people within the LGBT+ community who think we don't belong, for whatever reason, and there are some people within the ace community who want absolutely nothing to do with the LGBT+ community, for whatever reason... but I think those voices are very much in the minority. They're just especially vocal... People are seldom ideal, so it stands to reason that the communities people create will have aspects about them that aren't ideal. All we can do is try to uphold the ideals we believe to be important, and for me, inclusion of every minority sexual orientation and gender expression in LGBT+ spaces is an ideal I support and consider important. To me, excluding any minority makes no sense. We all have struggles due to living in a world where we are considered odd by the majority. We can help each other better by joining together, even if the types of problems aren't identical.

And really, when you get down to it, the problems we face are more similar than different. We have all seen messages here by young ace people growing up in intensely religious homes who fear being disowned by their parents because they're ace and others who fear that their friends will abandon them if they come out to them, two common problems that are also faced by young gay/lesbian people. We're not 100% alike, but we have more similarities than we do differences.

[Tarfeather]

Me and C. were really disappointed with my uni's LGBT+ group for not even listing asexuality in their list of sexualities. Not giving her much reason to feel as "part" of anything there. No idea about LGBT+ groups elsewhere.

And that goes both ways, too. Not talking about asexuality means less members and support for them. Their loss, IMO. Better to do visibility ads for asexuality on its own and not get involved with them.

[R_1]

And really, when you get down to it, the problems we face are more similar than different. We have all seen messages here by young ace people growing up in intensely religious homes who fear being disowned by their parents because they're ace and others who fear that their friends will abandon them if they come out to them, two common problems that are also faced by young gay/lesbian people. We're not 100% alike, but we have more similarities than we do differences.

I have yet seen actual cases (anecdotal and actual case studies) of asexuals being disowned by their parents if they're aces, and whether it's even common as those cases of homosexuals who are disowned by their parents. Right now, there's 0 good evidence that asexuals' problems (just for being asexual) are anywhere as a problem as gay individuals' problems at large. The best evidence isn't even enough to make a general conclusion as it's not strong enough to apply to cover larger amount of area like perhaps a state. Asides, useless anecdotes ahead, I have told homophobic people that I am not interested into sex, and my parents who were former homophobes, they're all fine with that barring less than 3 exceptions there and there. I'm not convinced of this at all.

[likeappletrees]

(rape mention below)

I think that the general fear among asexuals is not being kicked out of their homes, but rather being sent into some sort of corrective therapy for having a sexual dysfunction (this is the main reason I haven't come out to my family, nor do I plan to). I've also heard of cases of significant others using rape and sexual assault to "correct" their asexual partners. The Huffington Post wrote an article about this, but you're right when you say that there is little to no scholarly evidence of this. Because of this, it's very difficult for other members of the LGBT+ community to be accepting of people who they believe are appropriating their name and invading their safe spaces. (another question could be raised here: are the claims and experiences of members of this community not enough?)

However, I don't think that "You must be this oppressed to ride, and for this long, with this amount of sources to back it up" is a decent way to decide who gets to be included in the acronym and who doesn't.

[R_1]

(rape mention below)

I think that the general fear among asexuals is not being kicked out of their homes, but rather being sent into some sort of corrective therapy for having a sexual dysfunction (this is the main reason I haven't come out to my family, nor do I plan to). I've also heard of cases of significant others using rape and sexual assault to "correct" their asexual partners. The Huffington Post wrote an article about this, but you're right when you say that there is little to no scholarly evidence of this. Because of this, it's very difficult for other members of the LGBT+ community to be accepting of people who they believe are appropriating their name and invading their safe spaces. (another question could be raised here: are the claims and experiences of members of this community not enough?)

However, I don't think that "You must be this oppressed to ride, and for this long, with this amount of sources to back it up" is a decent way to decide who gets to be included in the acronym and who doesn't.

Yes, the article does support the idea that there is something alarming about acephobia, but the thing is we really do not know how much of a problem or even if it overblown because of the lack of decent scholarly evidence. As for acronym, unfortunately, there has to be some way to decide because some asexuals really do not want to be associated because of homophobia being a issue, and others are happy enough to be associated, and as for now, covert inclusion is the most fair way to support asexuals onto the lgbtq community and that approach doesn't bring asexuals who do not want to be associated to have the option not to at this point. But, things could change more or less in the future.

[Skycaptain]

My personal real-life experiences suggest that heteroromantic asexuals are welcome in the greater LGBTIQA+ community. Whether as an individual or with a group I've always been made welcome and have never been snubbed, treated rudely or had it suggested that we should not be there

[oylook.unicorns]

(rape mention below)

I think that the general fear among asexuals is not being kicked out of their homes, but rather being sent into some sort of corrective therapy for having a sexual dysfunction (this is the main reason I haven't come out to my family, nor do I plan to). I've also heard of cases of significant others using rape and sexual assault to "correct" their asexual partners. The Huffington Post wrote an article about this, but you're right when you say that there is little to no scholarly evidence of this. Because of this, it's very difficult for other members of the LGBT+ community to be accepting of people who they believe are appropriating their name and invading their safe spaces. (another question could be raised here: are the claims and experiences of members of this community not enough?)

However, I don't think that "You must be this oppressed to ride, and for this long, with this amount of sources to back it up" is a decent way to decide who gets to be included in the acronym and who doesn't.

Yes, the article does support the idea that there is something alarming about acephobia, but the thing is we really do not know how much of a problem or even if it overblown because of the lack of decent scholarly evidence. As for acronym, unfortunately, there has to be some way to decide because some asexuals really do not want to be associated because of homophobia being a issue, and others are happy enough to be associated, and as for now, covert inclusion is the most fair way to support asexuals onto the lgbtq community and that approach doesn't bring asexuals who do not want to be associated to have the option not to at this point. But, things could change more or less in the future.

That entire train of thought makes me a little uncomfortable in the way that it implies that choice of identity and community should be determined by some outside source instead of the individual person. Unless I'm just reading the response wrong, which is possible.

Personally, I am Panromantic Asexual, but I still struggle with whether or not I fit into the LGBTQ+ community. All of my friends are part of the community, but because I have only ever partnered with individuals who preset as male, I am seen as Het ace. (Or just Hetero since I am not technically out as Ace yet.) I don't really think that anyone else by me should get to determine if I fit into the LGBTQ+ community and the very idea that someone else has a say is what makes me so uncomfortable about including myself, even though MY inclusion would be warranted since I am not at all hetero.

[PerformativeSurprise]

I'm an aro ace, and I don't feel particularly a part of the LGBTQ+ community. That's not to say I've been made to feel unwelcome, simply that I've never sought to belong. While I can understand other aces feeling like they belong under the LGBTQ+ umbrella, I personally don't feel a strong connection. I think it's just due to the fact that my goals and theirs are often different, so I don't feel that shared bond the way I do with the ace (or aro) community. If I were romantic in any way, I might feel a connection to the community, but as an aro I don't. So I just consider myself an ally and leave it at that :)

[mykel_radar]

As an asexual and agendered person, I do feel a part of the LGBTQ+ community. Have you ever been to a bachelor or bachelorette party? You'll *definitely* discover how different you are. Even if you are het-ace, you'll definitely stand out.

[Snao Cone]

As an asexual and agendered person, I do feel a part of the LGBTQ+ community. Have you ever been to a bachelor or bachelorette party? You'll *definitely* discover how different you are. Even if you are het-ace, you'll definitely stand out.

I can relate only in the sense of the context of pending marriage. I've had fun at bachelorette parties because of the sexual imagery in them. I still have a phallic straw from one of them...

[Sally]

Am I the only one who keeps reading this as "Hot aces"?

Yeah? Okay, never mind then. Carry on.

No, you're not.

[mykel_radar]

As an asexual and agendered person, I do feel a part of the LGBTQ+ community. Have you ever been to a bachelor or bachelorette party? You'll *definitely* discover how different you are. Even if you are het-ace, you'll definitely stand out.

I can relate only in the sense of the context of pending marriage. I've had fun at bachelorette parties because of the sexual imagery in them. I still have a phallic straw from one of them...

Trust me, I have zero problem with sexual imagery at those parties and can be pretty spicy myself. It's just that awkward "So, why aren't you hooking up with someone?" when everyone else in the party is hooking up with someone and I'm just not interested.

[Soraiko]

The LGBT club at my college was pretty accepting of basically everyone regardless how they identify. But as an asexual, I can say that I did feel fairly excluded. People would hang out outside of the club all the time and invite basically everyone except me, right in front of my face too. It came across a lot like it was because I wasn't into random sex, and drinking, like they were. There was another asexual person too and they didn't really include him in anything either. They were honestly more accepting of me before I really said I was asexual and they didn't know how I identified at all. A few people were honestly accepting of everyone and tried to include everyone, but the majority were extremely clique-y and only acted accepting when other people were around and they basically had to. The year I started though was apparently when they started losing their reputation as a club where people go to just hook up, so maybe that old reputation was actually perfectly accurate. It really seems that way when I think about it. The people that weren't into that stuff often ended up leaving.

[Feliz]

The LGBT club at my college was pretty accepting of basically everyone regardless how they identify. But as an asexual, I can say that I did feel fairly excluded. People would hang out outside of the club all the time and invite basically everyone except me, right in front of my face too. It came across a lot like it was because I wasn't into random sex, and drinking, like they were. There was another asexual person too and they didn't really include him in anything either. They were honestly more accepting of me before I really said I was asexual and they didn't know how I identified at all. A few people were honestly accepting of everyone and tried to include everyone, but the majority were extremely clique-y and only acted accepting when other people were around and they basically had to. The year I started though was apparently when they started losing their reputation as a club where people go to just hook up, so maybe that old reputation was actually perfectly accurate. It really seems that way when I think about it. The people that weren't into that stuff often ended up leaving.

Sounds like my old group of gay friends, except I used to drink a lot just to stop being my reserved and socially awkward self and "fit in." Ironically, all it did was make me too talkative and silly, which annoyed them, so I stopped drinking. Because I'm not a typical hookup person, I knew then that I needed new friends. Aces really are marginalized, and I never imagined so until I joined AVEN. Sorry you had to go through that. At least you're accepted here. AVEN can be your HEA. :)

[Guest]

I'm not ''het'' (not ''cis'' either) and I still don't feel part of the LGBT. Asexuals don't face the same issues as lesbian and gay people have/do, so I don't see why aces (especially het aces) feel such an overwhelming need to be a part of that community. Can't we just have our own community which is ''A''?

I'm not saying homo or bi aces can't identify as part of LGBT if they want to (especially if they are openly gay etc, in which case they'd face a lot of the same issues any gay/lesbian sexual person does, homophobia etc) I just don't feel like a part of that community personally or like I have a place there, and I've met lots of other non-het aces who feel the same.

EDIT (oh and I was not referring to trans aces, just to be clear, I totally see why a trans ace would be a part of the LGBT community even if they are ''het''. Trans people face a completely different set of serious societal issues, regardless of their sexual orientation)

[flesh-pocket]

im aro (maybe het?) ace and i dont think of myself as a part of the lgbt community. its not so much that i think aces are/shouldnt be in general, just that they are, rightfully, fairly focused on sex and romance, things that i have 0 interest in and minimal ability to relate to. im somewhat sex repulsed as well :/

i used to go to a lgbt club at my community college, and was excepted well enough. we didnt talk very much about 'what everyone was' but i still dont feel very much kinship with the lgbt community.

also i dont drink/ do drugs lol

id rather wave at them from across the room... i dont feel like i have had a ton of similar experiences with them