If someone were to start a non-binary clothing line...

[The Not So Impossible Girl]

What kinds of clothes would you want them to design?

I really like sewing and I want to start experimenting with making clothes for people who generally don't like the strictly binary clothing options out there. I know there are already clothing lines out there that are gender neutral or gender non-conforming, but to me they all lack the interesting prints that I love on clothes (such as, cats, floral, unicorns, etc)

Examples: http://www.bustle.com/articles/100668-7-gender-non-conformist-gender-neutral-clothing-brands-to-support-right-now

I just want to get some ideas from people who have had the same frustrations as I have had shopping for clothing in the severely restricted "mens" and "womens" sections of clothing stores. Recently I've been trying to find some tank tops. My ideal tank top is one with a high neckline (somewhere between crew neck and scoop) with a cool print to it (usually a large floral print) that is roomy enough so that I get some air around my chest but not the traditional "flowy" type of tank top that they sell in the womens section. I've been getting so frustrated because everything I try on in the womans section is tight around my boobs but super loose everywhere else, and everything I try on in the guys section is the right amount of looseness I want at the top, but bunches around my hips weirdly. Like, seriously, why is there no middle ground??

So, what are some clothes that you have always wanted someone to make, but feel like no one has?

[Squirrel Combat]

A shirt that reads "Thew", or "Cove N", or "56 Recon", or "Buck Tape, Duck Teeth". Hhaha! Perhaps AVENites could submit their own drawings for possible shirt designs.

[girltwink666]

I was actually complaining about the lack of this in chat last night.

like basically i was lamenting the lack of gender neutral clothing lines, and the fact that pretty much all the ones that exist are like suits or menswear marketed towards exclusively AFAB people

SO if you really wanted to fill a niche, a gender neutral collection for AMAB nonbinary people would be a pretty unrepresented market.

[Kappamaki]

The biggest pitfall I've seen people fall into when making attempts at non-binary clothing sources is exclusively focusing on, as Topit said, menswear marketed towards AFAB trans people. "Dapper" menswear is sold as androgyny to the point it seems it's the only kind of androgyny that exists - and while it works great for some people, this leaves a lot of non-binary people in the dark, especially AMAB trans people who, in the non-binary community, are an especially vulnerable and oppressed group.

Portraying masculinity as gender-neutrality also has some really nasty implications when it comes to gender theory.

I saw a comic about this just the other day:

A perfect clothing line would have lots and lots of diverse options for customers because what works for some people doesn't work for others. Coming up with good ideas here means lots of creativity and talking with different people to find out what works for them. A perfect line would also have affordable prices. Trans people are usually made of even less money.

As for what works for me? Colorful knee socks with shorts (always men's shorts because pockets). Vests, hoodies, and sweaters I like. Colorful v-neck t-shirts. Clogs for shoes because tying shoes is annoying and I dislike it. Scarves - sometimes multiple scarves worn all at once. A hat that is secretly my sleepy raccoon friend, who is not for sale and impossible to replicate. Stylishly located facial scars from my encounters with hostile beings.

[ShyFeather]

If you want to liven things up with things like adding print, I would also suggest adding things like lace, or using different fabric textures in one piece. It's a simple thing to do but can really add interest. And lace really should be gender neutral :)

[Light02]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea. Also, maybe you could mix clothing that is typically masculine with typically feminine elements, like floral prints for example. And, a dress that looks "masculine" but... is a dress. I think that would look cute.

[Kappamaki]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea.

.... now I really want a cargo skort.

[Beth_Altair4]

I'm not sure of the definition on gender neutral clothing, if it means something either,(I know, rampant binarism), sex can wear and noone thinks it's weird then tons of stuff fits that description.

Levi 511 jeans and a t-shirt is about as gender neutral as you get, it's not gendered unless the shirt or jeans are fitted.

A lot of collections I've seen seem to be all about girls clothes boys can wear or boys clothes for girls.

What is the difference between gender neutral clothing and unisex clothing?

Would anyone even notice if someone was wearing neutral clothing?

(for reference I'm a trans grrrrrrrrrrrrrl with a non binary background. I have to avoid non gendered clothing a lot of the time or I just look like a boy. I alter my own clothes and try to get things to fit but some clothes are very much binary.

I'd love to wear clothes like a tomboy and still look like a girl but it's really hard to do that if you're not afab. Conversely it's hard to look anything but afab if you are as nearly every possible thing is already worn by Cis girls.

Non-binary clothing feels like something that could be never really make anyone pass as non binary unless it also makes a point of saying "think again, I am not the gender that you think I am" .)

[Beth_Altair4]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea.

.... now I really want a cargo skort.

Skorts are always a good idea! Skorts with pockets would be amazeballs

[Chardog]

Jaden Smith in the current Luis Vuitton campaign.. AMAB person in "feminine" clothing. Love that.

[warrigan]

yes, if i could have one piece of clothing that i really wanted, it would be a gender-neutral skirt. i'm picturing something really bunchy (like, sort of resembling a great kilt) that could be worn on its own or over pants. :D

also, dress shirts! the female ones i find too feminine, but the guy ones don't fit right. it doesn't help that i have a bit of a tummy, so the larger sizes completely swamp me.

[Groovy Teacakes]

I like to do the gender-neutral skirt, knee-length plain kilt kind of thing. If you wear it with a button-down shirt or something without a defined waist it can definitely look neutral. I would be good if more people wore genderless skirts and then maybe people wouldn't assume anyone in a skirt is female.

[LassieBee]

I can't offer any ideas because I live in jeans and band shirts but I must say that this sounds like a wonderful idea! I especially love the masculine dress/skirt idea!

[Rin-likes-rain]

Rain Dove is the perfect example of non-binary fashion. As for me, I really want to get rid of my feminine clothes in exchange for more androgynous, masculine clothes. I only have a few things that I feel comfortable wearing. A pair of jeans, and two dress shirts.

[Heart]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea.

.... now I really want a cargo skort.

Count me in!

Also, I would love to have a dress for those with flat chests that doesn't emphasize imaginary cleavage, or for those wearing a binder (so the dress would have to cover up the typical binder).

Also also, I would love to see men's style dress shirts and pants, but that accommodate hips. My hips suck when trying to wear "masculine" clothing.

[kaysir]

Also, I would love to have a dress for those with flat chests that doesn't emphasize imaginary cleavage, or for those wearing a binder (so the dress would have to cover up the typical binder).

Also also, I would love to see men's style dress shirts and pants, but that accommodate hips. My hips suck when trying to wear "masculine" clothing.

This and button ups and T-shirts that acccomodate larger chests and curvier/bigger people without having constricting upper portions or weird sleeves. Pants like that too. Feminine stuff that doesn't require curves or boobs, and masculine stuff that won't scrunch or droop on someone with hips/breasts/big thighs and so on.

[Skipper Valvoline]

I've always been fond of outfits that mimic military uniforms (or think like the dress code in Wrath of Khan, from Star Trek)- that style with the double buttons and straight-line top looks great on both guys and gals, so you could have tunics, shirts, dresses, lots of stuff.

Also, I've noticed that a lot of gender-neutral clothes are really baggy, so they just seem frumpy. If we get some different fits- the same outfit if you have a more masculine body or feminine body or in-between- I feel that it would really clean up the look.

[The Not So Impossible Girl]

Oh wow, a lot of replies on this one xD
I started working on things and almost completely forgot that I made this thread. Woops.

So looks like the most popular items people are into are:

1) shirt dresses that are wider around the waist as to accommodate people with

(I actually have a dress just like this. It's the best dress ever. It's made of a jean-like material so it can hold a little bit of structure, while also being flowy looking if you want it to be. And it has smiley faces all over it. You can wear it without a belt on days when you want to not have that "feminine cinched waist" kind of thing, or with a belt on days when you do want that look. Honesty, I should make my own version of this dress because it seems like it would be perfect for masculine, feminine, and all people in between and outside the binary to wear)

2) a skirt that is shaped like a kilt

3) skorts

4) dress shirts that aren't so annoying in terms of their fit

(I completely agree with this. I love the thick fabric on mens dress shirts but they always are too tight around my hips and too loose around my shoulders so I can't wear them. Female dress shirts emphasize curves too much in most cases, and the fabric is too thin for my taste. They make jean shirts that I think generally fit most people the well. I could try to take the casual shape of a jean shirt and dress it up with a nicer fabric)

But yeah, I'd also like to make clear that I'm not really into making "gender neutral" clothing. That stuff, to me, tends to be pretty drab and not very versatile. I want to make versatile stuff that has personality to it (like the shirt dress, for instance). I definitely have to get my skill level up first, too. I just got a new machine for Christmas, upgrading from a $40 machine that I've basically had since I was 13 . I've already learned a lot about the different types of seams and how to make them work for different types of clothing, and I've started taking commissions to make some clothes for my friends. I should get in touch with some of my friends who are trans (especially those who are AMAB since people have expressed that there is a need for good clothing in that area) and ask if I could use any of them for trying out new clothing designs eventually.

I also like the idea of having the same article of clothing but in different types, like different fits for wide shoulders, flat chests, big chests, or wherever extra fatty deposits might be located. I think it would be best to have 3 different fits (whatever those might be). Sooooo yeah. Y'all can keep posting and I'll check back every once and a while for new suggestions! Thank you! ^_^

[UncommonNonsense]

There are already a few awesome gender-neutral clothing lines/store out there!

Here are a few!

http://www.flavnt.com (they even sell a really awesome looking binder! And they sell plus-sizes! And they're really affordable!)

http://www.muttonheadstore.com (I love the look of their collections, but they don't do plus-sizes... damnit)

http://www.boboacademy.com/

http://www.zara.com/us/en/trf/ungendered-c816001.html

http://www.wearandrogyny.com/

https://www.wildfang.com/

http://www.genderfreeworld.com

tomboyfemme.com

http://www.radhourani.com/collections/eshop

http://www.notequal.co/shopcollections/ (I love the double jacket! I'd never afford it - the prices are in-fucking-sane! - and they don't have anything close to my size, but.. here it is: http://www.notequal.co/shopcollection/double-jacket)

http://sixty-nine.us/

http://www.tillyandwilliam.com/

[Heart]

I also like the idea of having the same article of clothing but in different types, like different fits for wide shoulders, flat chests, big chests, or wherever extra fatty deposits might be located. I think it would be best to have 3 different fits (whatever those might be). Sooooo yeah. Y'all can keep posting and I'll check back every once and a while for new suggestions! Thank you! ^_^

I particularly like this idea :D If I had to pick three "fits" I think I'd go with a rectangular one, one that has room at the chest and hips, and one that is wider at the shoulders. From purely anecdotal evidence, I think those three are the most varied kinds, that would likely be able to encorporate the most of the natural variety in human bodies...

But congrats on the new sewing machine! It's a super fun thing to learn, I only wish I had more time to explore as well ^_^

[Mezzo Forte]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea.

.... now I really want a cargo skort.

Count me in!

Do Utilikilts count? They're more expensive than I remembered, but they do have cargo pockets :P

(I do wonder if I'd ever be able to wear a kilt proudly, being super Scots-Irish and all, but I wouldn't look masculine enough pre-HRT and I don't know if my brain would associate them too much with feminine skirts and squick me out even if I did pass while wearing one.)

[Heart]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea.

.... now I really want a cargo skort.

Count me in!

Do Utilikilts count? They're more expensive than I remembered, but they do have cargo pockets :P

(I do wonder if I'd ever be able to wear a kilt proudly, being super Scots-Irish and all, but I wouldn't look masculine enough pre-HRT and I don't know if my brain would associate them too much with feminine skirts and squick me out even if I did pass while wearing one.)

Those look SO USEFUL! But also, my work has me climbing ladders, so I don't know if that's my thing, I think I'll stick to the cargo skorts ;)

[PhoenixButterfly]

Okay, since summer is just around the corner and nobody has once mentioned swimwear, I guess I should.

I like the clothes I wear now, but I don't have a swimsuit to wear this summer because of all the weight I've lost recently. I don't really feel comfortable wearing a one-piece swimsuit nor would I ever feel comfortable topless in swim trunks. What I've always wanted to wear is more along the lines of those old-fashioned swimsuits like they wore in the movie Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang. But I think I would prefer to see it in either solid colors or maybe plaid, instead of the traditional broad stripes. I would design one myself, I guess, but I wouldn't know how to draw it. Also, I've been wanting to learn how to sew for years now, but I never got around to actually learning how to sew.

[Amorphous]

I've always thought that a unisex/gender-neutral skirt sounds like a great idea.

.... now I really want a cargo skort.

Count me in!

Do Utilikilts count? They're more expensive than I remembered, but they do have cargo pockets :P

(I do wonder if I'd ever be able to wear a kilt proudly, being super Scots-Irish and all, but I wouldn't look masculine enough pre-HRT and I don't know if my brain would associate them too much with feminine skirts and squick me out even if I did pass while wearing one.)

I am so getting one of those! Also, does anyone know if you can get similar "sweatkilts" with large pockets? That would probably be the most comfortable and awesome (not to mention useful and convenient) piece of clothing I can imagine, since sweatpants are comfortable and those kilts look awesome.

Also, with regards to swimwear, I often wear a t-shirt made of a flexible fabric to protect my shoulders from the sun and then swim trunks below. I think that effectively mimics those old-style swim suits, but remains flexibly separated into two pieces. I'm pretty sure you can also find t-shirts that are actually made for swimming.

[PhoenixButterfly]

Also, with regards to swimwear, I often wear a t-shirt made of a flexible fabric to protect my shoulders from the sun and then swim trunks below. I think that effectively mimics those old-style swim suits, but remains flexibly separated into two pieces. I'm pretty sure you can also find t-shirts that are actually made for swimming.

Flexible fabric? Do you mean like a spandex blend? I have some sports bras that are mostly spandex. I'll have to see if I can find any flexible T-shirts. I hope my best friend can come for a visit this summer. Maybe she can help me find a comfortable swimsuit. I want to have something to swim in at my little nephew's birthday party in late July. I have a feeling it's going to be hot that day. And it's at a beach park, so I know that swimming is allowed. I think it's why my sister-in-law chose to have it there.

Also, I wish that there was a gender neutral word for aunt/uncle in the English language. And, for that matter, I wish there was a gender neutral word for niece/nephew. It kind of bugs me when someone refers to me as a sister, daughter, granddaughter, aunt, or niece. It's almost as bad as when someone refers to me as a woman. That's how my mom always ends her side of an argument about me not wanting to shave my legs or carry a purse. She always says, "because you're a woman." But I just silently think to myself, "No, I'm not." I would tell her, but I just don't think she'd understand.

[kayoftheroundtable]

If you want to liven things up with things like adding print, I would also suggest adding things like lace, or using different fabric textures in one piece. It's a simple thing to do but can really add interest. And lace really should be gender neutral :)

I am SOOOOO in for lace being gender neutral! My main thing is like - yes, I want to wear a binder and look flat chested. But maybe I want my binder to be in pretty colours?

More femme but still non-binary formal wear is also something I can never find, but idk how you'd make that work (other than skorts for everything!)

[Gentle Giant]

I was watching the Doctor Who episode "Snakedance" and it got me thinking about this thread. The men in this show had skirt type outfits. The one that stuck in my mind the most is worn by the character Chela played by Jonathon Morris. He's the young thin faced man with a curly 80s style hairdo and wearing a white button up collar and brown outfit with the pleated skirt. I just thought it would be worth mentioning here for ideas.

[Zoe W.]

Whatever you end up designing, please make the waists on pants/slacks fit natural waistlines. I'm on my very last nerve with this fashion trend of having waists sit on hipbones. I'm forever yanking up my pants when I stand up or bend down, and I can do with no longer seeing other people's flesh hanging over their pants, front and back. It would be much appreciated.

Good luck with your clothing projects.

[Gentle Giant]

I agree with Zoe. I've always hated that low riding pants trend.

[Mezzo Forte]

I agree with Zoe. I've always hated that low riding pants trend.

I actually have the opposite problem; because my scoliosis makes one of my hipbones jut out, I'm only comfortable with pants that sit below that bone. Still, I just wish there were more clothes options for more body types. I know that I've had my frustrations trying to find clothes that actually fit me just because I'm somehow both short and lanky. (Men's clothes are too small, women's are too feminine, and children's are too stocky.) I'm almost tempted to learn how to make my own clothes once I'm farther along in my transition. (I'd rather not work super hard on something and have it no longer fit in a few months :P )