#Trans + non-binary problems

[nerdperson777]

2 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

I befriended and networked with many famous percussionists before transition, and I'm not sure how many of them would even realize that I'm the same person. I've won concerto competitions, presented research, and even played percussion for an album that's publicly available on sites like Amazon, but all under my unmistakably female birthname. If anyone was going to fact-check my CV, I'd have to include the tidbit "credited as [birthname]" and potentially out myself on that merit alone. Honestly, the worries about transition impacting my career created an unconscious sense of self-sabotage that made me not want to succeed under my birth name. That said,  I got hired as a professor at a community college, and even though I had to list my birthname under my list of "previous names" to facilitate my background check, I don't think anyone has realized I'm trans beyond the one HR person I've told. My place of work has explicit protections for trans people though, so it wouldn't even matter if I did come out. 

The friend I was losing in college was 10 years older than me and she was really good at martial arts before, she told me.  She said she used to be able to all the acrobatic movements, flips, and more.  Don't know if it's the hormone therapy, but she can't do any of that now, so I can only go by her word.  She also seems to get hurt a lot easier now, but that could just be getting older.  There's this cis guy that comes in morning classes who is about the same age, but he's a powerhouse.  It could be because he used to be in the military, because his physical strength is so great.  (One kid walked by him once, saw his arms, and said "bodybuilder", despite him never lifting.)

 

Sometimes I wish I knew about her abilities before she transitioned.  There was this one boy, who's really good now, that idolized her back then, unsure as which gender though.  I would've liked to see all the work in action, both the acrobatic prowess and hormone transition.

 

While I was still friends with her, someone just like her came to my school to teach QTPOC people a self-defense seminar.  She was even 10 years older than her.  So I envisioned this visitor like the older version of my friend.  She got the top rank in her martial arts (my friend later got it), had her own studio, loved all her students, used to be a great competitor, and more.  They're even both Japanese.  It seems amazing to think that one has so many achievements under another publicly known identity that's no longer used.  Me, in contrast, my parents wanted me to be successful without distinguishing myself from others, so I don't really consider myself to have that many achievements.  Spending enough time to compete in something was too much for them.  They considered it a waste of time and money if I wasn't good enough, because they only cared about the medal.  So I never really got to get to any top notch level in anything.  I'm doing martial arts now and I've competed several times.  I'm only better than a third of the competitors in the "female" category when it comes to external styles.  I can't really gauge how good I am at internal when there is at best three competitors, and most of the time I get automatic gold from there not being any competitors.  But I did win gold twice against two other competitors.  I don't have the resources now to get to the higher level, unless I want to drive two hours to the best university in martial arts I can go to.  The second best is also near me but I have to be affiliated to get in.  So I don't expect myself to get to that high level.  I probably just have the best balance skills at the place I currently go to.

[butterflydreams]

4 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

25 is way too long of a wait if you ask me. I was somewhat slow to recognize my dysphoria and come out to myself, and I still hit my absolute breaking point at 22. It had me so depressed that I contemplated quitting music, and for me, that would have been a path to literal suicide. All waiting an extra 3 years would have done was ruined my career.

Sometimes I feel bad that I wasn’t quite this bad. At least to all outward appearances. I was still functional. I guess you could argue about my insistence I wouldn’t make it to 30. 

 

There’s a really pervasive “not trans enough” or more accurately, “not suffering enough” kind of thing that seems to happen. I know I struggle with it a lot from time to time. 

 

Maybe I was kind of already dead. I always looked at my transition as a kind of “rebirth”. Sort of rising from the ashes. As though I’d already been burned down. Just another way stuff can shake out I guess.

[nerdperson777]

1 hour ago, butterflydreams said:

Sometimes I feel bad that I wasn’t quite this bad. At least to all outward appearances. I was still functional. I guess you could argue about my insistence I wouldn’t make it to 30. 

 

There’s a really pervasive “not trans enough” or more accurately, “not suffering enough” kind of thing that seems to happen. I know I struggle with it a lot from time to time. 

 

Maybe I was kind of already dead. I always looked at my transition as a kind of “rebirth”. Sort of rising from the ashes. As though I’d already been burned down. Just another way stuff can shake out I guess.

I struggle with "not trans enough" too.  But then I have to remind myself that there isn't just one way to be trans.  Some items and actions are gendered for no good reason.  They don't have to be gendered.

 

I thought of myself as already dead for different reasons.  I had some life events when I was younger that I thought should've killed me.  I was shocked by an outlet when I was in 7th grade and sometime later, my clothes caught fire on a stove.  That one I quickly shook my sleeve and the fire disappeared.  I told my mom what happened and she said that I should've died from that.  So I have this notion that when one dies, they're transported into another alternate universe where they're alive, every time they die.

[Mezzo Forte]

1 hour ago, butterflydreams said:

Sometimes I feel bad that I wasn’t quite this bad. At least to all outward appearances. I was still functional. I guess you could argue about my insistence I wouldn’t make it to 30. 

 

There’s a really pervasive “not trans enough” or more accurately, “not suffering enough” kind of thing that seems to happen. I know I struggle with it a lot from time to time. 

 

Maybe I was kind of already dead. I always looked at my transition as a kind of “rebirth”. Sort of rising from the ashes. As though I’d already been burned down. Just another way stuff can shake out I guess.

Everybody comes into their own at their own pace, but I'm mostly speaking about when someone is already aware of and ready for the treatment they need, yet are forced to wait for reasons beyond their control. I could imagine being aware that testosterone and top surgery were right for me, but then have to wait 9~10 years before even starting treatments that already take some time to take effect.

 

My apologies if I sound like I'm perpetuating the "not suffering enough" attitudes, as I felt that quite a bit myself. I never sincerely contemplated self harm or suicide, and if I had no access to transition, I most likely would have still survived, but transition did significantly improve my quality of life.

 

(That said, I feel kind of weird declaring my life as better now than it was pre-transition because I've dealt with far more hardship and mental health struggles in recent years than when I was younger. There were moments that I only recognize now were related to dysphoria from the past, but I was still generally a happy kid/teen. Technically, my life was better before transition, but that was only because of reasons unrelated to my trans identity, like having better financial security and a clearer/simpler path that I could follow without stressing too much about the future. If I didn't transition when I did, I'm sure my life would be way worse than it is now. Not even to say that my life is even bad, as I still have a lot of good fortune to be thankful for.)

[butterflydreams]

1 hour ago, Mezzo Forte said:

My apologies if I sound like I'm perpetuating the "not suffering enough" attitudes, as I felt that quite a bit myself. I never sincerely contemplated self harm or suicide, and if I had no access to transition, I most likely would have still survived, but transition did significantly improve my quality of life.

Oh no no, I was just saying that it's something I think a lot of us struggle with internally. I didn't mean it was something you specifically were implying.

 

I agree that transition has significantly improved my quality of life as well, and I think that's really what it's all about. 

 

1 hour ago, Mezzo Forte said:

(That said, I feel kind of weird declaring my life as better now than it was pre-transition because I've dealt with far more hardship and mental health struggles in recent years than when I was younger. There were moments that I only recognize now were related to dysphoria from the past, but I was still generally a happy kid/teen. Technically, my life was better before transition, but that was only because of reasons unrelated to my trans identity, like having better financial security and a clearer/simpler path that I could follow without stressing too much about the future. If I didn't transition when I did, I'm sure my life would be way worse than it is now. Not even to say that my life is even bad, as I still have a lot of good fortune to be thankful for.)

I admire your courage in saying this. There's a lot I look back on too and think, "fucking dysphoria..." I had plenty of happy moments as a kid/teen, but a dark cloud was definitely forming, and honest to god, it landed right around puberty. I'm still sure I would've been dead before 30 if I hadn't transitioned when I did. 

 

Our lives our complex, and often far from linear, trans or not. I think that's really the gist of what both of us are trying to get at here.

[nerdperson777]

2 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

(That said, I feel kind of weird declaring my life as better now than it was pre-transition because I've dealt with far more hardship and mental health struggles in recent years than when I was younger. There were moments that I only recognize now were related to dysphoria from the past, but I was still generally a happy kid/teen. Technically, my life was better before transition, but that was only because of reasons unrelated to my trans identity, like having better financial security and a clearer/simpler path that I could follow without stressing too much about the future. If I didn't transition when I did, I'm sure my life would be way worse than it is now. Not even to say that my life is even bad, as I still have a lot of good fortune to be thankful for.)

I'm not sure how to describe my childhood.  Since my parents decided everything for me, how I lived, how I felt, they said that I had a very privileged life, and I believed it.  I also had more struggles in recent years, probably from hitting a breaking point.  But the flaw in the thinking was that my parents only looked at the material stuff.  I lived in a family that was upper middle class.  We had no big financial troubles.  But that was all any conversation was about.  On the surface we look like a family that gets along well.  But under the surface, what my parents don't really think about, none of us are a match for each other.  My mom is a master at her career and managing money.  My dad is good at what's natural, or requires an innate sense.  He would be able to survive out in a wilderness for a bit and mom would be lost from the beginning.  My cousin said that even though they are only considered a couple legally (I mean no affection in it), they are co-dependent on each other.  We aren't open with each other.  We're really just tolerating each other.  Mom doesn't want to insult my dad or he'll take away the cooking.  My cousin said that it seems kind of sad that we're hiding information from each other just to not hurt feelings.  These are the things I know now.  I thought we were a good family back then, but then I learned what's under the surface.

 

I lived under a rock when I was at home.  My parents only wanted me to study 24/7.  I didn't have chores.  Just school.  Get the grades.  They were convinced of the only path to success, which was get good grades, get into a good school, get that expensive piece of paper, that will get you the job.  Note that none of it is about the knowledge, just the result.  So anything else that wasn't traditionally academic was basically unimportant.  Art was unimportant.  Can't make a career off that.  It's a waste of time.  I just got this tunnel vision binary look at life.  If you didn't know all the hardships in the world, life looked pretty nice.  So would I consider myself to have a happy childhood?  I'm not sure.  Everything was just shielded from me.  Frankly, a lot of it was lies then.  Since I didn't feel emotion, would I even have known happy?  Still don't know.

 

I thought I was going to get a master's degree in engineering and just get a great paying job.  I have none of those currently.  I even thought that I would stay home forever so I didn't have to pay rent.  After knowing the horrors that I experienced, I just want to get out as soon as possible.

[Lirpaderp]

13 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

25 is way too long of a wait if you ask me.

I completely agree. I wanted to take testosterone for a while but I gave many excuses to why it could never happen. They are all reasons I've come to term with. I want to take T. I can't wait six years. But I can't take it without my mom finding out. She made me promise to wait. I need to let her know how much I want this. I need to explain all the opportunities I have access to while at school.

 

13 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

Also, your mom's worries about finding a job actually get trickier if you wait longer to transition, especially as a musician where your name is your brand.

I talk about music a lot because that's what I'm having the most fun with and I love theory class :). But I'm actually an engineering student, I hope to minor in music. I don't know what I'd get a job in, I love both of them too much. Either way, transition is the best option. I know sight singing class will be painfully difficult, but it would be worth it.

[Mezzo Forte]

20 minutes ago, Lirpaderp said:

I completely agree. I wanted to take testosterone for a while but I gave many excuses to why it could never happen. They are all reasons I've come to term with. I want to take T. I can't wait six years. But I can't take it without my mom finding out. She made me promise to wait. I need to let her know how much I want this. I need to explain all the opportunities I have access to while at school.

 

I talk about music a lot because that's what I'm having the most fun with and I love theory class :). But I'm actually an engineering student, I hope to minor in music. I don't know what I'd get a job in, I love both of them too much. Either way, transition is the best option. I know sight singing class will be painfully difficult, but it would be worth it.

Six years is indeed a longer wait than is necessary from what you're saying. Granted, I also got access to HRT absurdly quickly after coming out to myself, (though my 4+ year intense questioning process perhaps balances that out,) so I can only comment so much on the matter.

 

Ah, my bad for assuming! Probably got a little too excited from all your music commentary, especially where I'm directly working with transgender musicians at the moment.  If it helps, sightsinging is far more about understanding pitch than the quality of the singing; you're not going to get a lot of commentary about vocal technique there. I often find myself self-conscious of my own capacity for embarrassment, (it's related to how I grew up,) so I tried to hide that discomfort by just biting the bullet and sightsinging when asked. I actively dissociated from my speaking voice, and that experience transferred well for dissociating from my singing voice. I don't think sightsinging for Theory 1 or 2 is particularly demanding, and I somehow didn't do too terribly with that. Theory 3 and 4 was a different story, as I'd consistently get perfect scores on the dictation, but completely bomb the sightsinging. I was just terrible at recreating what I could hear.  As a music minor, I don't know if you'd have to touch upper-level theory or not. I don't think most music minors at my undergrad needed anything more than Theory 1. 

 

My alma mater is big on doing combined programs with music, so I actually have a fair amount of friends who double-majored in engineering and music. Always a fun mix  

[nerdperson777]

2 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

I talk about music a lot because that's what I'm having the most fun with and I love theory class :). But I'm actually an engineering student, I hope to minor in music. I don't know what I'd get a job in, I love both of them too much. Either way, transition is the best option. I know sight singing class will be painfully difficult, but it would be worth it.

I have a minor in theatre, despite being horrible at deciphering emotions.  But I took all the required classes, five upper division classes and be involved in a production.  Four of my classes were on acting, but I still don't think I can act.  I also started as an engineer, but realized that I didn't really like it.  I kept pushing myself to do this major that was supposed to get me a bright future and a great career, but I had to learn at some point that being stubborn wouldn't get me everywhere.  So now I have a math degree with a minor in theatre.  That is similar to an engineering degree with a music minor, right?  I never really looked into my school's music program but I knew from an older student that it was not the best place to study music.  Our school only played contemporary music, no classical, no baroque.  But acting was worth it.  I heard that we were at the top for acting (and biology).  But stage management sucks bad.

[Lirpaderp]

3 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

Six years is indeed a longer wait than is necessary from what you're saying. Granted, I also got access to HRT absurdly quickly after coming out to myself, (though my 4+ year intense questioning process perhaps balances that out,) so I can only comment so much on the matter.

 

Ah, my bad for assuming! Probably got a little too excited from all your music commentary, especially where I'm directly working with transgender musicians at the moment.  If it helps, sightsinging is far more about understanding pitch than the quality of the singing; you're not going to get a lot of commentary about vocal technique there. I often find myself self-conscious of my own capacity for embarrassment, (it's related to how I grew up,) so I tried to hide that discomfort by just biting the bullet and sightsinging when asked. I actively dissociated from my speaking voice, and that experience transferred well for dissociating from my singing voice. I don't think sightsinging for Theory 1 or 2 is particularly demanding, and I somehow didn't do too terribly with that. Theory 3 and 4 was a different story, as I'd consistently get perfect scores on the dictation, but completely bomb the sightsinging. I was just terrible at recreating what I could hear.  As a music minor, I don't know if you'd have to touch upper-level theory or not. I don't think most music minors at my undergrad needed anything more than Theory 1. 

 

My alma mater is big on doing combined programs with music, so I actually have a fair amount of friends who double-majored in engineering and music. Always a fun mix  

You're good, I often wish I was a music major. But with my schedule (classes on and off 8am-11pm) majoring in both couldn't work without a few extra years. I think higher level music theory is required for the minor, but I'm going to take it even if I don't need to.

 

I'm disconnected from my voice. But I'm in singing groups. The groups are because it's fun, but also so I can prove I'm good enough. I keep thinking if I get better at singing maybe I'll connect with my voice. I went to Scotland with a choir over the summer and I had the main solo. Yet I still don't connect with my voice at all. I'm told time and time again how angelic and pretty my singing voice is. No matter how much I try to relate with it, it doesn't feel like mine. It's really frustrating. If I took testosterone my choir director would be devastated. I feel selfish for wanting it T so bad. Yet if I had to drop one ensemble, the singing group would be the first to go.

 

6 minutes ago, nerdperson777 said:

I have a minor in theatre, despite being horrible at deciphering emotions.  But I took all the required classes, five upper division classes and be involved in a production.  Four of my classes were on acting, but I still don't think I can act.  I also started as an engineer, but realized that I didn't really like it.  I kept pushing myself to do this major that was supposed to get me a bright future and a great career, but I had to learn at some point that being stubborn wouldn't get me everywhere.  So now I have a math degree with a minor in theatre.  That is similar to an engineering degree with a music minor, right?  I never really looked into my school's music program but I knew from an older student that it was not the best place to study music.  Our school only played contemporary music, no classical, no baroque.  But acting was worth it.  I heard that we were at the top for acting (and biology).  But stage management sucks bad.

My friends like to make silly videos. They know never to give me speaking roles that aren't monotone. I can't do it. Acting is something nobody can ever see me doing. And I'd do everything within my power to avoid doing it. But I feel if I had a guys voice or played a male role, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd love to try it someday. But that will never happen. A dream of mine is to sing in a barbershop quartet.

 

I'm not really sure why I'm going into engineering. Probably because I think of it as math/science/robots. If I end up hating engineering, math is my next best thing. Other than music, but the only thing I could do is teach. And unless I get over discomfort with my voice I'll never be able to do that. My anxiety is too bad to major in performance. And I don't know where I'd start when it comes to composition. I wanted to be an engineer since 8th grade. I was the only afab in tech ed class. We worked on robots. Now that I think about it, I feel like part of me wanting to be in engineering is because that tech ed class felt great and I guess I just wanted to replicate that feeling.

[nerdperson777]

3 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

You're good, I often wish I was a music major. But with my schedule (classes on and off 8am-11pm) majoring in both couldn't work without a few extra years. I think higher level music theory is required for the minor, but I'm going to take it even if I don't need to.

 

I'm disconnected from my voice. But I'm in singing groups. The groups are because it's fun, but also so I can prove I'm good enough. I keep thinking if I get better at singing maybe I'll connect with my voice. I went to Scotland with a choir over the summer and I had the main solo. Yet I still don't connect with my voice at all. I'm told time and time again how angelic and pretty my singing voice is. No matter how much I try to relate with it, it doesn't feel like mine. It's really frustrating. If I took testosterone my choir director would be devastated. I feel selfish for wanting it T so bad. Yet if I had to drop one ensemble, the singing group would be the first to go.

 

My friends like to make silly videos. They know never to give me speaking roles that aren't monotone. I can't do it. Acting is something nobody can ever see me doing. And I'd do everything within my power to avoid doing it. But I feel if I had a guys voice or played a male role, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd love to try it someday. But that will never happen. A dream of mine is to sing in a barbershop quartet.

 

I'm not really sure why I'm going into engineering. Probably because I think of it as math/science/robots. If I end up hating engineering, math is my next best thing. Other than music, but the only thing I could do is teach. And unless I get over discomfort with my voice I'll never be able to do that. My anxiety is too bad to major in performance. And I don't know where I'd start when it comes to composition. I wanted to be an engineer since 8th grade. I was the only afab in tech ed class. We worked on robots. Now that I think about it, I feel like part of me wanting to be in engineering is because that tech ed class felt great and I guess I just wanted to replicate that feeling.

Suddenly I'm reminded of Chinese school where we spent our Mandarin class practicing singing for the end of the year senior banquet.  The juniors and seniors were one class because the classes were too small, so everyone practically went twice.  I knew the teacher had no idea what she was talking about when she said that we were pitch perfect and giving the solos to her [teacher's] pets.  My first year was really awkward because the girl who got the solo was practically tone-deaf.  She just sings really high, but not in tune.  The guy was okay.  So at the actual banquet, I just tried my best to smile and act like nothing bad was happening.

 

I tried doing some male roles.  It was definitely better than female roles.  Sometimes I just choose the role of a kid, when I was in improv class, so that it didn't really matter what gender I was.

 

Come to the math side....hehehehehe.

My only outside experience then was just teaching too.  I was really close to going into a teaching program but stopped when I did find a job.  I was given a composition assignment when I first started learning music.  It's been 17 years and it's still not done.  Engineer was something I decided during my high school junior year.  I took AP Physics that year.  I watched the 20% female gender ratio there.  That was including me in a 35 student class.  I was also probably the only "girl" in robotics club.  That and E, who acted more like the token girly girl who didn't care that much about robotics.  She was already in college when she came by to watch the competition.  We didn't have much in terms of resources so our supervising teacher said that if we made one point, he would take the team out for ice cream.  We did and E wanted to be part of it, even though she didn't actually contribute to the robot.  I guess it was hard for the teacher to just exclude someone from ice cream but she ended up leaving before we got ice cream.  Even then, I didn't do much in the club.  I just screwed nuts and bolts together.  The guys were sometimes goofing off being mean to each other so once I lent my keys to one for the light on my keychain.  They assumed that the keys belonged to no one important.  So they literally mutilated my keychain.  I found parts of it around the room.  I guess because I was the only "girl" they felt bad.  I wish I could've worked on circuitry or something.  My major was in electrical.  I just didn't like all the theories and Kirchoff's Law and whatever.

[butterflydreams]

9 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

I completely agree. I wanted to take testosterone for a while but I gave many excuses to why it could never happen. They are all reasons I've come to term with. I want to take T. I can't wait six years. But I can't take it without my mom finding out. She made me promise to wait. I need to let her know how much I want this. I need to explain all the opportunities I have access to while at school.

Safety aside, like not being able to have your mom disown you...it’s your life. If you’re the age of majority, and you know it’s what you want and need to do, your mom can’t make you wait or do anything. I know this is hard, and depending on your circumstances, it might create a lot of friction with your mom. I essentially had to come to the same conclusion. I knew what I wanted and needed to do. I knew my mom wouldn’t like it. But I was the age of majority and this is my life. I’m the one that has to live it, not her. Something for you to consider. Your mom does not hold the keys to you being able to live your life.

 

9 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

But I'm actually an engineering student, I hope to minor in music.

I was also an engineering student. Looking back on it, I should’ve minored in religious studies but I didn’t. I’m sure I was just a few credits away. 

[Lirpaderp]

@nerdperson777 in high school robotics club we had between one and three females. A lot of the time it was just me. I did some good work on the robot but the group turned into it's own little click of friends and I was on the other side. Even then I was a productive member of the team for all four years. Being the only female in that group didn't feel weird at all. I did get some comments about my "bravery" to go to the club even though it's all males. It wasn't hard for me, I felt like one of them. But being in an all girls singing group consistently terrifies me.

 

@butterflydreams I originally wasn't planning on a music minor. I was just going to take music the classes I want. Then I saw the courses required for a minor. After taking the courses I want, I'd be three credits away from a minor. So I might as well go for it. Plus people seem to think it's more legit if I'm going for a minor rather than just taking the classes to have fun. Looking at my schedule it would be hard to guess what my intended major is.

[nerdperson777]

1 hour ago, Lirpaderp said:

@nerdperson777 in high school robotics club we had between one and three females. A lot of the time it was just me. I did some good work on the robot but the group turned into it's own little click of friends and I was on the other side. Even then I was a productive member of the team for all four years. Being the only female in that group didn't feel weird at all. I did get some comments about my "bravery" to go to the club even though it's all males. It wasn't hard for me, I felt like one of them. But being in an all girls singing group consistently terrifies me.

 

@butterflydreams I originally wasn't planning on a music minor. I was just going to take music the classes I want. Then I saw the courses required for a minor. After taking the courses I want, I'd be three credits away from a minor. So I might as well go for it. Plus people seem to think it's more legit if I'm going for a minor rather than just taking the classes to have fun. Looking at my schedule it would be hard to guess what my intended major is.

I was still living by the stereotypes my mom had fed me so I was a timid androgynous girl in a group of guys.  Due to always being safe, I never really got into any harder concepts in robotics.  Some learned programming.  I didn't really start learning until after high school.  Our club wasn't that good anyway, so I didn't have high hopes.  I remembered going to an orientation for the club and they had to stress that this club was NOT about fighting robots.    My dad thought about fighting robots the other day and I had to say NO it's not fighting robots.  The only objective I remember from all my years there was when we had to make the robots play basketball.  Our robot had a long heavy arm so it wasn't very effective, yet it was able to make a point.  We spent the rest of the competition without the arm and just trying to block other robots from scoring.  Then comes a prep school like Bellarmine that has a working contraption and with an attractive design.  They made a claw thing that had the face of a raptor on it.  Our robot was not going to look pretty and it doesn't shoot.

 

Half the reason I had a theatre minor was for the easy A, which was the only thing my mom wanted.  I liked the classes too.  I meant it to be a break from my major.  But my mom was too straightforward.  Don't have a minor.  It distracts from the major.  Plus with art, it wouldn't help towards a career.  Despite what she said, I did it anyway.  When I do something now that she doesn't like, she can't really do anything about it.  My friend did Earth Science with double minor in literature and theatre.  There's nothing wrong with having minors vastly different from the major.  Mom only wanted the fancy piece of paper.  No mention of the actual knowledge.  High GPA.  I thought of my minor as a way to enjoy my life a little.  I'm not going to learn anything from a college "get in, get out" mentality.  They're big years in my life.  Unlike my parents, I want to live my life.  Holding back everything will make me regret it later.

 

I thought about doing a minor in math with my engineering major.  Then I wanted a double major.  These were just dreams since I could barely pass my engineering courses the first time around.  I knew a guy who actually got to do what I wanted, electrical engineering and applied math double major.  Plus my experience in the weeder class was also horrible by luck.  The grading scale changed in a way that caused a 20% passing rate.  Yeah, that was a disaster.  On my third try taking the class, I only managed a D.  That had nope written all over it.

[Mezzo Forte]

15 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

Other than music, but the only thing I could do is teach. And unless I get over discomfort with my voice I'll never be able to do that. My anxiety is too bad to major in performance. And I don't know where I'd start when it comes to composition

If you're into engineering, why not consider looking into music tech? There's far more music jobs in the world than education, performance, and composition. Musicians just often have to be somewhat entrepreneurial and sometimes make their place in the world. Sound tech in particular is a really important field, as there's everything from amplifying live venues, to recording albums in studios, to audio editing, to assisting electroacoustic concerts, and so many situations where musicians need to use tech that they don't fully understand. As you dig into 20th/21st century theory techniques, you may start seeing hints of music tech too, especially if you end up talking about spectralism at all.

 

(I would also consider education itself a form of performance actually, as there's a lot of presentation techniques that make a big difference in audience engagement, for example. You also kind of need some sort of performance background for most music ed jobs. Even theory requires that you know how to teach students how to sightsing and be able to play piano competently enough to test their ears.)

[nerdperson777]

2 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

If you're into engineering, why not consider looking into music tech? There's far more music jobs in the world than education, performance, and composition. Musicians just often have to be somewhat entrepreneurial and sometimes make their place in the world. Sound tech in particular is a really important field, as there's everything from amplifying live venues, to recording albums in studios, to audio editing, to assisting electroacoustic concerts, and so many situations where musicians need to use tech that they don't fully understand. As you dig into 20th/21st century theory techniques, you may start seeing hints of music tech too, especially if you end up talking about spectralism at all.

I'm just reminded of theatre again.  For the tech crew, we had four groups: scenery/props (my group), sound, wardrobe, and...oh no what's the last one, it usually goes with sound.  When I was looking for jobs after graduation, I lurked through the local university job listings and saw that they needed a sound tech person.  Sadly, since I took acting classes and was in scenery/props, I did not have experience required for doing any part of that job.  It would be nice to be able to work in theatre, but don't know if I could handle the time commitment.  When I was involved in a production, I was there almost 40 hours a week, with homework from other classes that I still had to do.  Weekdays were 6 hours a day.  Saturday, I remember starting at around 11:30 and ending, maybe 11:30, I forget already.  I know my whole day was gone basically.  That was for a month.  I would think that if I were to have my career in a production, maybe even full days for all those 6 days.  I would rather be a prop maker really, but my current skill is so mediocre.  I'm also stuck in a not motivated to work phase.  That wouldn't work well for me.