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#Trans + non-binary problems


Neko-tama

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44 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

Not so much a thing they say, but something cis men do that baffles me: why don't they wash their hands after peeing?! You're holding your junk, you need to wash that

I know it's gross in my opinion too. But I know some people see it as the same as scratching your armpit or something. It's just touching flesh, sweaty flesh, but flesh nonetheless. 

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The-world-is-quiet-here

Last night when we were talking about gendery things, Sasha (my sibling) brought up that some people use pronouns like ze. 

My mom: "oh, I can't handle that. Just stick with they."

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Why is it so hard for people to accept that some people use "they"?

 

I mean, I can understand stuff like ze and xe and stuff, they're different, but "they" just..seems so simple to me to understand? When a friend told me they where agender back in 2015 (actually this was the first time I heard of genders other than male and female) I just accepted it instead of being like,"How can not be a boy or a girl?" and understood the gender neutral pronouns. It's really not that hard to remember that some people wanna be called they instead of he or she. Maybe it's because I've been looking at this gender stuff obsessively for 2 years.

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Binary_fiction

Related to they, I've heard and even read here

 

- "They is too confusing, I don't understand why people aren't using "it"."

 

- "It's hard for me too!"

 

- "How can your gender be agender, isn't self-contradicting."

 

All these have been addressed at me, either in forums or in person. I can understand confusion but really, even if people can't grasp the concept, is it that hard to respect others?

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3 minutes ago, Binary_fiction said:

Related to they, I've heard and even read here

 

- "They is too confusing, I don't understand why people aren't using "it"."

wow that's rude. If people seriously want to be called "it", that's fine I guess, but that's just dehumanizing someone.

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Binary_fiction
Just now, AnonAsker said:

wow that's rude. If people seriously want to be called "it", that's fine I guess, but that's just dehumanizing someone.

I know right? Not to mention that it's a slur in trans culture that anti-trans movements use to invalidate gender identities.

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Anthracite_Impreza

Hoo boy my dad came out with some right ones last night while watching a programme with a trans woman in, and not just annoying, but downright nasty.

'Eww, look at that'
'HE'S still a man'
'I don't care if a man wants to wear a dress, they're still a man though'
- were among the best ones. If that wasn't bad enough he knew I'd been up to my trans mate's house that very day, and he knows for a fact 'I feel similarly', because I told him.

 

Honestly he's such a twat when it comes to anything not cis-het-white I'd have nothing to do with him if he weren't my father.

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Luftschlosseule
4 hours ago, Binary_fiction said:

- "They is too confusing, I don't understand why people aren't using "it".

"Because then you'd get a clown on a killing spree, would you want that?"
Urgs. Some people...

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1 hour ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

Hoo boy my dad came out with some right ones last night while watching a programme with a trans woman in, and not just annoying, but downright nasty.

'Eww, look at that'
'HE'S still a man'
'I don't care if a man wants to wear a dress, they're still a man though'
- were among the best ones. If that wasn't bad enough he knew I'd been up to my trans mate's house that very day, and he knows for a fact 'I feel similarly', because I told him.

 

Honestly he's such a twat when it comes to anything not cis-het-white I'd have nothing to do with him if he weren't my father.

I really hate how people say stuff like this. They tried, they might've gotten surgery, but unfortunately, the surgery just isn't good enough (yet) to make their body good enough for people who think they're still,"a man in a dress" or "girl that must be a lesbian if she looks like a boy". What else are they supposed to do, then? the surgery isn't a real "sex change", but it's the best they have,so ????

 

and sorry, I know that's a controversial thing to say, binary trans people are valid, of course, it's just what else are they supposed to do if there's no better option?

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Internetlionboy
1 hour ago, AnonAsker said:

I really hate how people say stuff like this. They tried, they might've gotten surgery, but unfortunately, the surgery just isn't good enough (yet) to make their body good enough for people who think they're still,"a man in a dress" or "girl that must be a lesbian if she looks like a boy". What else are they supposed to do, then? the surgery isn't a real "sex change", but it's the best they have,so ????

 

and sorry, I know that's a controversial thing to say, binary trans people are valid, of course, it's just what else are they supposed to do if there's no better option?

Yea I agree. Honestly my view is just let people do what makes them happy.

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ChillaKilla

"I'm a guy but I'm girly and am basically a lesbian in a man's body so I understand trans issues totally"

 

No. You do NOT.

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11 minutes ago, ChillaKilla said:

"I'm a guy but I'm girly and am basically a lesbian in a man's body so I understand trans issues totally"

 

No. You do NOT.

I found it insulting, especially with how it was phrased

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1 hour ago, ChillaKilla said:

"I'm a guy but I'm girly and am basically a lesbian in a man's body so I understand trans issues totally"

 

No. You do NOT.

Hbjswkkskdknwpsnpwks

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ChillaKilla
1 hour ago, Mystic Maya said:

I found it insulting, especially with how it was phrased

Yeah, as if it made the antagonism the poster was saying okay.

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1 hour ago, ChillaKilla said:

"I'm a guy but I'm girly and am basically a lesbian in a man's body so I understand trans issues totally"

 

No. You do NOT.

I've heard cis guys say things like "I'm half straight, half lesbian" like no. No, no just don't...don't say that.

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butterflydreams

My neighbor who's been gone for the winter got back this week. Finally caught up with her this morning. She's older, maybe about my mom's age. Says to me, "Hadley, you know, I have no idea why you want to be a woman...it's such a pain in the ass!" Then lists off a bunch of stereotype kind of things. It wasn't malicious in any way, but it was interesting. This is how a lot of people understand trans people. That we "want" to be something, rather than we just are what we say we are. Maybe that's the only way people can conceive it. I can imagine that maybe it's difficult to imagine yourself being "wrong" in that way.

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Guest And Peggy
On 5/25/2017 at 8:45 PM, ChillaKilla said:

"I'm a guy but I'm girly and am basically a lesbian in a man's body so I understand trans issues totally"

 

No. You do NOT.

what the hell

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19 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

My neighbor who's been gone for the winter got back this week. Finally caught up with her this morning. She's older, maybe about my mom's age. Says to me, "Hadley, you know, I have no idea why you want to be a woman...it's such a pain in the ass!" Then lists off a bunch of stereotype kind of things. It wasn't malicious in any way, but it was interesting. This is how a lot of people understand trans people. That we "want" to be something, rather than we just are what we say we are. Maybe that's the only way people can conceive it. I can imagine that maybe it's difficult to imagine yourself being "wrong" in that way.

It's just more of how cis people confuse being trans with stereotypes, just a less malicious example compared to the kind of things TERFs say for example

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Mezzo Forte

I'm officially convinced that I am more likely to get misgendered when I'm with my mom.

 

13 months on T, almost 2 weeks post-op from top surgery, and infinitely confused about how the fuck this still happens. -_-

 

(It's thankfully super rare, but 3 of the last 4 times I've been misgendered were in the company of my mother, and I'm only with her so often.)

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Anthracite_Impreza
On 27/05/2017 at 6:00 PM, Hadley167 said:

My neighbor who's been gone for the winter got back this week. Finally caught up with her this morning. She's older, maybe about my mom's age. Says to me, "Hadley, you know, I have no idea why you want to be a woman...it's such a pain in the ass!" Then lists off a bunch of stereotype kind of things. It wasn't malicious in any way, but it was interesting. This is how a lot of people understand trans people. That we "want" to be something, rather than we just are what we say we are. Maybe that's the only way people can conceive it. I can imagine that maybe it's difficult to imagine yourself being "wrong" in that way.

My father did this in a reverse.

'Why would women want to be men? Men have it so much harder'

*headstraightthroughdesk*

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ChillaKilla
1 hour ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

My father did this in a reverse.

'Why would women want to be men? Men have it so much harder'

*headstraightthroughdesk*

They have it so darn hard... imagine the horror of cutting your hand on a beer can while cracking open a cold one with the boys! Life is truly terrible for guys ;) 

 

(I'm being facetious, kindly do not report this post as it is a JOKE thanks)

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butterflydreams
2 hours ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

My father did this in a reverse.

'Why would women want to be men? Men have it so much harder'

*headstraightthroughdesk*

Oh definitely. I'm almost positive this kind of "why would you want to be ___, ___ have it so hard" is almost always based on surface level stereotypes. Just like the TERFy "you don't know what it's like to grow up as a _____." People, especially women, in my family broke all the stereotypes when I was growing up. (My maternal grandmother once ran out of the house with a broom chasing a bear). I'm a pretty femme person. Where did I get it from? Not from my mom, that's for sure. Honestly, my sister kind of turned out the same way. Instead of learning things from our mom, we've both had to learn things on our own out in the world, at much later ages. If I had been a tomboy, I would've learned all I needed to know much earlier.

 

The point of all of it is...being trans isn't about any of that stuff. For me anyway, it's about just getting to a normal baseline. A better way to explain it to someone who is cis, "you know how you do ____ and like ____ and exist in the world like _____ and your body feels like your own? Nice isn't it? That's all I want too."

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Yesterday my father told me I'm lucky because I live in the West. He said that if I, being transgender, lived in the East, I would be dead by now. The funny part is that I sent him an email with a lot of articles saying that the country I live in is the one that kills trans people the most in the world.

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TRexPhilbo
8 hours ago, otachi said:

Yesterday my father told me I'm lucky because I live in the West. He said that if I, being transgender, lived in the East, I would be dead by now. The funny part is that I sent him an email with a lot of articles saying that the country I live in is the one that kills trans people the most in the world.

:huh: What I heard when I read that was:

Quote

We're so civilised in the West! People in the East are so barbaric!

 

i just... AAAAAAAAAAAAA :evil:

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ChillaKilla
12 hours ago, otachi said:

Yesterday my father told me I'm lucky because I live in the West. He said that if I, being transgender, lived in the East, I would be dead by now. The funny part is that I sent him an email with a lot of articles saying that the country I live in is the one that kills trans people the most in the world.

Brazil? Yup... Sorry about that. I read the same thing Philbo did out of that. "West=good, East=bad" and a whole lot of blindness to one's own country's problems :wacko: 

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Mezzo Forte

All the trans violence in Brazil breaks my heart. :( The composer who made me fall in love with music is Brazilian, and I've actively played and studied music of Northeast Brazil for the majority of my music career. If I decided to pursue ethnomusicology as my primary field, I would have wanted to do my field research over there, but I just wouldn't feel safe doing that unless I could pull off being 100% stealth.

 

Go figure that I was so scared about being trans in Cuba, and it turns out that they're fairly chill about it. Enough so that the government pays for transition there anyways. Murder rate's also pretty low, though part of that might have to do with how guns are illegal there. I was stealth for the most part, with the exception of my fellow students and one of the local people who worked with us. Had some interesting conversations about LGBT politics with that person too. It's a very gendered society though, so I feel like nonbinary people would have a tough time. >>

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butterflydreams
On 5/28/2017 at 0:15 PM, Mezzo Forte said:

I'm officially convinced that I am more likely to get misgendered when I'm with my mom.

 

13 months on T, almost 2 weeks post-op from top surgery, and infinitely confused about how the fuck this still happens. -_-

 

(It's thankfully super rare, but 3 of the last 4 times I've been misgendered were in the company of my mother, and I'm only with her so often.)

I'm glad that it's rare, but it's interesting that it seems to occur more when you're with your mom. I can't imagine a reason as to why that would be. Do guys not hang out with their moms ever? I'm at a loss :unsure: 

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Mezzo Forte
2 hours ago, Hadley167 said:

I'm glad that it's rare, but it's interesting that it seems to occur more when you're with your mom. I can't imagine a reason as to why that would be. Do guys not hang out with their moms ever? I'm at a loss :unsure: 

My suspicion is that it's related to my resemblance to her. We look so alike that it makes people more apt to read me female as well. I'm typically read as male, but as a (young) somewhat androgynous one, so it doesn't take that much to tip the scales against me. Thankfully, once people see my face, they typically catch on and (sometimes) apologize, but these scenarios are still super jarring. 

 

That said, to only be misgendered 5 times between February and now pretty much averages out to passing 99% of the time, so I try to stop myself from giving these scenarios too much weight.

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butterflydreams
1 minute ago, Mezzo Forte said:

That said, to only be misgendered 5 times between February and now pretty much averages out to passing 99% of the time, so I try to stop myself from giving these scenarios too much weight.

Good! They don't need any weight.

 

Hmm, I need to put myself in more situations where my passability is tested at all...

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Mezzo Forte
7 minutes ago, Hadley167 said:

Hmm, I need to put myself in more situations where my passability is tested at all...

It's easy to feel like you're not testing your passibility since most your interactions will be with people who knew you before. You're testing your passibility just by being out and about even when you're not thinking about it. I always recommend restaurants to hear strangers gender you, but any person working a service job will be more likely to address you in a gendered way. Of my 5 misgendering incidents, 3 of them were airline attendants, one was customer service (over the phone), and the recent one was a waitress.

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